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June 24, 2009

It Came From 4th Ave: The Electryifying Conclusion!

4th%20ave%20and%20carroll%20beauty%20queen.jpg
When we last checked in on the 4th Ave sliver at the corner of Carroll, the rental building's facade was sporting a snazzy new layer of cinder blocks. More recently, however, the cinder blocks have been covered with the same materials used on the side of the building—though the colors of the two sections of street-level facade are now different, and it's unclear when, if ever, the discrepancy will be remedied. Still: Progress! The other new thingamajig on the structure is a gated garbage can area that may well turn out to be the best looking thing about this building.
It Came From 4th Ave! [Brownstoner] GMAP

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Oooo, what could one call those blocks? Faux-stone painted popcorn cement?

Posted by: Heather at June 24, 2009 11:02 AM

Yikes!

How can this and 1 Pierrepont (see below) inhabit the same borough -- or planet?

Posted by: NOP at June 24, 2009 11:04 AM

it looks rusticated to me.

Posted by: dittoburg at June 24, 2009 11:05 AM

HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just this morning i saw a family come out and throw out trash into into those as they were leaving for work or something. it was the first time i noticed what they did to it.

heather, and yes. it has a very strange feel to it. those stones.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 24, 2009 11:05 AM

Are these the same rental units that started out asking $4K for a 2 BR????????????????

Posted by: gemini10 at June 24, 2009 11:08 AM

What's the deal with all the 4th Ave buildings not having any ground level retail? Seems like such a waste...instead of having amenties that would bring more foot traffic, there are blank, depressing walls.

Were they taking this "Park Avenue of Brooklyn" thing literally?

Wait....doesn't Brooklyn already have a Park Avenue?

Posted by: dirty_hipster at June 24, 2009 11:09 AM

They should make Park Avenue the Park Avenue of Brooklyn, it's true. I mean it has that lovely shaded median right down the middle!

Posted by: Heather at June 24, 2009 11:11 AM

Gemini, I'm not sure what they rented for, but I'm fairly certain that every unit is rented....

If they paint the new blocks the same color as the older ones in the back, I dare say it won't look completely horrendous. Someone is going to need to keep on top of the graffiti which will no doubt appear though.

Posted by: 11217 at June 24, 2009 11:14 AM

DH- so true
Heather - haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Posted by: gemini10 at June 24, 2009 11:14 AM

11217, that building has been tagged twice already. it's been removed immediately though.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 24, 2009 11:32 AM

That developer is what the Sunset Park/ Greenwood Heights Slumvelopers aspire to be.

Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at June 24, 2009 11:32 AM

Is every developer and their architect with a project on 4th Ave complete morons? So much for the big sophisticated city. This place is full of numbnuts. Thanks MARTY MARKOWITZ, Fugedaboutit!! HA HA HA, you fatslob. YEA PARK AVE. for fat idiots. Fatso. Fatty fat.

Posted by: billyboomer at June 24, 2009 11:33 AM

Every day I walk past that thing and think, I should snap a pic and send it to Brownstoner!

I don't understand why they only put up the cinders on half the wall on the 4th Ave side? It looks short-bus.

i agree that it's sad there's no retail in these buildings (including mine). But then again, 4th doesn't get much foot traffic so it almost makes sense...

Posted by: secondbecky at June 24, 2009 11:39 AM

Billy - but tell us how you really feel!!!

11217 - k, gotcha

Posted by: gemini10 at June 24, 2009 11:43 AM

wah wah wah -

The faux blocks are far better than the parking stalls that were there before and while any sliver building like this will look odd from various angles, the building is fine, nothing gorgeous but attractive enough.
I concur on the lack of retail (seems self-defeating to me) but I doubt this building would have been able to hold much more than an ATM machine so I dont think the criticism holds as it applies to this building

Posted by: fsrg at June 24, 2009 11:44 AM

I was taking car service when the Eastern European driver pulled over to take a picture of this building. I asked him why he was taking the picture and he told me that he thought the building was beautiful.

Posted by: Art Salt at June 24, 2009 11:47 AM

"i agree that it's sad there's no retail in these buildings (including mine). But then again, 4th doesn't get much foot traffic so it almost makes sense... "

Of course there is a ton of foot traffic since there are major subway stations all along 4th avenue. Its just there is nothing in the way of retail to attract people to stick around after they get out of the subway.

Posted by: newsouthsloper at June 24, 2009 11:53 AM

"What's the deal with all the 4th Ave buildings not having any ground level retail?"

Probably a very simple reason - they can't sell it. Would you want to open a store on 4th Av? I mean, one that wasn't a "flats-fixed" shop? Not every street is appropriate for retail.

Posted by: East New York at June 24, 2009 11:53 AM

I need to ask everyone here a question- Why was Dave allowed to use the "N word" without any repercussions from the Brownstoner readers???????!!!!

I will await your answers...

The What (Reaches for the Rocket Launcher)

Someday this war is gonna end...

"Yes, Kens, "faggot" is as bad as "nigger." Both are typically used in the same tone and for the same effect. Both will get you an upgrade to a hate crime when assault is involved. Oddly though, both are used by repective members of both groups amongst themselves.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 23, 2009 11:25 AM"

Posted by: Return of The What at June 24, 2009 11:55 AM

"Probably a very simple reason - they can't sell it. Would you want to open a store on 4th Av?"

If you build it they will come.

If you make retail rents cheap enough people WILL lease it. People talk like 4th avenue is 150 miles away from 5th avenue.

Hell yeah i would open a bar/restaurant on 4th avenue.

Posted by: dirty_hipster at June 24, 2009 12:04 PM

There already is quite a bit of new and older retail along 4th Avenue....the new coffee shop Root Cafe, Zuzu Ramen, Papa John's, Brownstone Bagel, Sheep Station, 4th Avenue Pub, the list goes on and on.

No, it's not wall to wall retail and this area doesn't really need much more retail since 5th, 7th, Smith and Flatbush Avenues are all PACKED with miles of retail for as far as the eye can see.

How many more stores does one need exactly...? Honestly, Park Slope has just about everything you could want already...it's retail saturated. Now I just wish some of the restaurants would improve in quality, but there really is not a lack of retail in this area.

4th Ave has a gritty feel. It's on the border of an industrial and a brownstone neighborhood. Why do people seem to want it to be something it's not...?

Posted by: 11217 at June 24, 2009 12:06 PM

this building is just so deeply upsetting

11217 - this is a city and ALL buildings built on main thoroughfares should have retail spaces period - encourages pedestrian life, reduces crime - it's ALWAYS a win win. Why in god's name would you argue to keep 4th ave (or any street) a wasteland? I unfortunately have to spend more time than i'd like in this area since my son attends the children's school and I would love to see the glimmerings of a vibrant retail culture along this hideous ave. unfortunately, it attracts only the deepest and most dim witted assholes of the development world who seem to be committed to keeping the ave a pit and their property values low.

Posted by: gkw at June 24, 2009 12:14 PM

"If you make retail rents cheap enough people WILL lease it."

Sure...I agree w/that. But how will you make rents cheaper? As 11217 points out, 4th Av retail will have to compete with (already high-priced) retail locations on 7th and 5th. Frankly, I don't see it happening.

11217 is also correct in that there's already some retail on 4th. Perhaps there's room for more. But it will take investors prepared to take risks. It's nice to TALK about opening a bar, but how many people are going to put their money on the table and actually do it? Perhaps that's one reason we don't see ground-floor retail space in every condo.

Posted by: East New York at June 24, 2009 12:20 PM

11217 actually 4th Ave needs a Duane Reade - lower slope from Flatbush to 9th has ZERO pharmacies/drug stores

- weird actually - their site guys will put 2 on every corner in Manhattan and then ignore 4th Ave because it probably doesnt fit within their guidelines - but 10 years from now it will and they'll pay 3x the rent

Posted by: fsrg at June 24, 2009 12:24 PM

quote:
Park Slope has just about everything you could want already...\

no it isnt. 1.) there isnt a legit porno shop (babes in toyland does NOT count, you cant buy good hardcore porn there. it's annoying to have to go into sunset park for porn. (i like porn on dvd, not the computer btw)

2.) there is no large music store.

3.) there is no Wendy's.

4.) there's no video game arcade (i know those are rare, but they do exist and new arcade machines come out everyday).

i can go on and on about how park slope doesnt have any of the basic essentials and ammenities for a non snob like myself.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 24, 2009 12:40 PM

"lower slope from Flatbush to 9th has ZERO pharmacies/drug stores"

There is a CVS at 9th Street and 5th Avenue, an Eckerd (or is it Rite Aid now?) at 5th Avenue and 10th Street and Neergaard at 10th Street and 5th Avenue.

I guess one on 4th might be nice, but there is no shortage of Drug Stores within a couple block radius and they like to open with places with more foot traffic.

Duane Reade sucks anyway. Go to Neergaard.

Posted by: 11217 at June 24, 2009 12:46 PM

Rob,

A video arcade would be amazing in PS. I would think that could be a really successful business.

Posted by: 11217 at June 24, 2009 12:47 PM

Rob, based on your criteria for what makes up a great neighbourhood, you should have moved to Times Square!

Posted by: Biff Champion at June 24, 2009 12:48 PM

Park Slope has no Chinese restaurants.

Posted by: WonTon at June 24, 2009 12:55 PM

WonTon, why don't you go say hi to DIBS in the Open Thread and make his day?

Posted by: Biff Champion at June 24, 2009 1:01 PM

strange considering how many adopted chinese babies there are in the neighborhood too, wonton!

i would give my left nut to live in times square!

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 24, 2009 1:01 PM

There is no way the What can be that stupid.

Posted by: dittoburg at June 24, 2009 1:06 PM

I'm guessing the Chinese restaurant comment is a joke. There are a million Chinese places in PS. Ok, well at least 4 or 5.

Posted by: 11217 at June 24, 2009 1:08 PM

"I'm guessing the Chinese restaurant comment is a joke."

11217, I also thought there's no way that can be serious, unless WonTon is referring to one he might seem "authentic", which is fair enough. I've seen Westernized Chinese food places in almost every big neighbourhood I've ever been in. I'm sure Park Slope has a bunch of them.

Posted by: Biff Champion at June 24, 2009 1:16 PM

I meant "he might DEEM"

Posted by: Biff Champion at June 24, 2009 1:16 PM

Why would retail spaces on 4th have to compete with 5th and 7th ave rents?

That's the point of opening in an off the beaten path location - you get a sweetheart 10 year lease well below market rate, which will bring different types of businesses

I see it as the developers investing in the community - rather than trying to get as much money as possible by cramming condos in on the ground floor of a building.
In 10 years these buildings will still be big buildings amongst McDonald's and Jiffy Lubes.

Posted by: dirty_hipster at June 24, 2009 1:19 PM

i like 4th avenue a lot more than i like 5th and 7th avenue. it could definitely use a little more retail though i guess.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 24, 2009 1:21 PM

I mean to say there are no restaurants in the Park Slope area that serve Chinese food.

I realize there are places in the neighborhood that serve food labelled "Chinese", which utilizes some techniques and ingredients found in Asian cooking.

Posted by: WonTon at June 24, 2009 1:22 PM

WonTon, that is what I thought you meant, if your post was not sarcastic. My father-in-law owns a Westernized Chinese food restaurant. When we go there, he has to buy a whole different set of ingredients as he makes authentic Chinese for us. What he and my mother-in-law cook at home is nothing like what one would get in the typical Chinese take out restaurants. I've learned a lot about real Chinese food from my in-laws. Admittedly, this isn't to say I don't occasionally get a big craving for the Westernized stuff.

Posted by: Biff Champion at June 24, 2009 1:29 PM

You are a lucky guy Biff. Where in China is your father in law from?

Posted by: WonTon at June 24, 2009 1:35 PM

WonTon, yes, I'm very lucky. Her father is from a small farming village in Toysan, China. My wife and her parents and sister went to see his hometown a few years ago and she said she was blown away by how rural it was. She also described some of the food, which even she was amazed at. My kids speak Toysan at home (I insisted my wife only speak it to them at home so they could easily communicate with their Pwo Pwo and Gon Gon). My wife's mother is a city girl from Hong Kong.

Posted by: Biff Champion at June 24, 2009 1:51 PM

Toisan is in Guangdong province, very close to Hong Kong, maybe 90 minutes, two hours by bus or ferry. You should visit there with your wife! Yes, it is very rural mostly farmland, rice vegetables, pigs, chickens and goose. Every village has its own special dish. I went with friends from Hong Kong several times last winter on eating holidays.

Posted by: WonTon at June 24, 2009 1:58 PM

11217 - If your at Union st and 5th - the drug stores at 9th and 6th (or 10th and 5th) is Far from "a couple of blocks" its more like a 1mi round trip walk.

Posted by: fsrg at June 24, 2009 2:01 PM

WonTon, I didn't realize it was that close to Hong Kong, although it sounds worlds apart in terms of lifestyle. I am dying to go there! Our honeymoon was meant to be a trip all around China but we had to change plans as my father was very ill at the time of our wedding. Then the Champettes came along and we haven't had a chance to go there. I dream of going there one day...China is incredibly fascinating to me. Eating holiday...now you're talking!

Posted by: Biff Champion at June 24, 2009 2:03 PM

If you're at Union and 5th, you aren't very far from the Duane Reade on Flatbush, no? A little bit of a walk, but not bad.

Or there's the other Neergaard at Union and 7th, not terribly far either. Or Prospect Gardens Pharmacy on 7th and Union.

I would hate to see another huge chain open up in the North Slope and put some of these great places out of business.

If you like the huge chain thing, Pathmark probably has a pharmacy as does Target probably, both of which are not a far walk from Union and 5th...

Posted by: 11217 at June 24, 2009 2:08 PM

Sorry, I guess the other Neergaard is closer to Carroll and 7th, actually.

Posted by: 11217 at June 24, 2009 2:10 PM

By the way, sorry to all for the off-topic banter; we would normally take it to the Open Thread, but the Open Thread is a bit out of hand today, even by it's own standards.

11217, would you say 4th Avenue is the true western border of Park Slope? I know we often joke about Park Slope boundaries, but it seems brokers are getting more and more liberal with the borders.

Posted by: Biff Champion at June 24, 2009 2:13 PM

I would indeed say 4th is the border of Park Slope. I would actually consider the Eastern side of 4th Park Slope, and the western side to be Gowanus.

Posted by: 11217 at June 24, 2009 2:15 PM

Thanks 11217, that's what I still assumed, although I'm certain I've seen some Agents refer in their listings to places around 3rd Avenue as being in Park Slope.

Posted by: Biff Champion at June 24, 2009 2:21 PM

I totally agree that Park Slope lacks real Chinese food. We typically travel to one of the Chinatowns when we can, but can someone recommend a decent Chinese place somewhere in the vicinity of the Slope?

Posted by: Lesloaf at June 24, 2009 2:33 PM

4th avenue is gowanus. so it 5th avenue for the most part.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 24, 2009 2:38 PM

Come on 11217 - are you really trying to allege that Union and 5th to Flatbush (round trip) is "not a bad walk" or to Carroll and 7th - both are at least one mile round trip - which is certainly walkable but far from convenient when you are sick at 8pm and need a prescription filled or down to your last diaper.

Its not a matter of "chains" its a matter of SERVICE - if NEERGUARD or some other independent wants to open a drug store in the lower slope great but if not, the Rite Aids (et al) of the world serve a function and would be patronized by many (if not welcomed)

Posted by: fsrg at June 24, 2009 2:49 PM

whats that Chinese movie where the old father makes all those spectacular dishes every day for his undeserving daughters?

I was so hungry watching that I had to stop the DVD for a kitchen break.

Posted by: dittoburg at June 24, 2009 2:49 PM

Yeah, how small is Gowanus gonna have to shrink, Windsor Terrace and various mini-hoods (PP South, Stable Brooklyn)have basically drowned Kensington in the bathtub, anything north of Bay Ridge would be Park Slope if the RE Industry had its way...

Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at June 24, 2009 2:52 PM

For authentic Chinese to go with no Guai-Lo you can travel to the east side of Ave U. Or Sunset Park. Maybe Brownstoner can take up a collection to get the Slumvelopers in Sunset to open up a restaurant in PS.

Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at June 24, 2009 2:59 PM

I do not think that Union and 5th Avenue to 7th Avenue between President and Carroll is a mile. It's 2 Avenues up and one and half blocks down.

I guess I walk a lot. Not everyone does.

I don't really think the Slope is under served with regard to Pharmacies, but we clearly differ of opinion on that. I'm sure Duane Reade or something else will come along down on 4th soon enough.

I happen to think Neergaard has excellent service.

P.S. I walk from my apartment (7th and a named street) to the gym on 9th Street and 5th Avenue nearly every day. I consider that a bit of a walk, but nothing major.

Posted by: 11217 at June 24, 2009 2:59 PM

I keep saying this over and over...

The new buildings on 4th Ave are NOT allowed to have retail! They are zoned for 'community service' use. That's why Methodist is in the Novo.

I'm sure if you ask Vinca nicely he can come up with several links to prove this :-)

And, while the building may not be beautiful, it doesn't mean the apts are not interesting. They look like 1-2 apts per floor, outdoor spaces with good views. You could do worse in a rental.

And, with all the new stuff that was built, there's a lot more ped traffic that their used to be.

Posted by: denton at June 24, 2009 3:03 PM

I hope some of these builders that got burned by finance learn that quality is recession-proof, crap only works in a bull market.

Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at June 24, 2009 3:09 PM

Ditto, it's Eat Drink Man Woman. Great movie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eat_Drink_Man_Woman

I'm a huge fan of Chinese films, especially those directed by Zhang Yimou and starring Gong Li. To Live is my second all-time favourite film (after Cinema Paradiso).

Posted by: Biff Champion at June 24, 2009 3:11 PM

"The new buildings on 4th Ave are NOT allowed to have retail! They are zoned for 'community service' use. That's why Methodist is in the Novo."

Why don't they put a homeless shelter intake facility in one of the buildings on 4TH instead of Crown Heights?

Posted by: dirty_hipster at June 24, 2009 3:20 PM

11217 - no need to think, a map shows its .5 mi each way - and again, when walking to the GYM, .5mi each way is not far....but when getting a prescription filled (often for sick, old, non-healthy) or getting pharmacy/drug store items, 1mi round trip it is not at all convenient. (and I commute by foot about 4mi on most days)

Lower PS is NOT well served by Pharmacies.

Neerguard is fine, if a bit dirty

Posted by: fsrg at June 24, 2009 3:20 PM

Nearest Chinese food to Park Slope is Sunset Park, Bensonhurst or Chinatown. Or my apartment.

But by Hong Kong standards, the food is nothing to write home about (even in my apartment. I eat out all the time in Hong Kong, we all do).

Best Chinese food I've had in New York was in some basement in Flushing.

Posted by: WonTon at June 24, 2009 3:24 PM

"Neerguard is fine, if a bit dirty"

They just renovated the one on 7th and it's so sparkling new, you'd think you were in a spa.

Posted by: 11217 at June 24, 2009 3:29 PM

And just for the record 120 7th Avenue (Neergaard) to 207 5th Avenue (Body Reserve Gym) is .37 miles.

So it's a third of a mile each way.

Posted by: 11217 at June 24, 2009 3:33 PM

Thanks for the movie tips Biff.

Posted by: dittoburg at June 24, 2009 3:38 PM

I agree, WonTon, I don't think there's any good Chinese food in brooklyn.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 24, 2009 3:45 PM

I had a good Fujian-style meal at Everett on 8th Av in Sunset Park last year.

As always, it helps to know Chinese. Even at a good restaurant you can get bad food if you don't order correctly.

Posted by: WonTon at June 24, 2009 4:03 PM

"Why don't they put a homeless shelter intake facility in one of the buildings on 4TH instead of Crown Heights?"

Cuz they still need to sell apts. And do you think a condo board would rent to a homeless shelter?

Posted by: denton at June 24, 2009 5:06 PM

4th Ave. is zoned for community service??? That can't be true. Link, denton?

Posted by: southbrooklyn at June 25, 2009 10:09 AM

The zoning for this corner should require retail space, or at least provide incentives to encourage retail, as it is the best way to keep a street alive and safe. I wouldn't be surprised if the developer was required to provide parking. Besides they can probably make more money from renting parking spaces then then from an empty/difficult to rent retail space, and money of course, is their motivation...

The real issue is this: If retail is really not a sustainable option on a certain street, there are better ways to design the ground floor of a building so that it is not an eyesore and unpleasant to walk past. Think about all of the wonderful streets in the area that are strictly residential- they do not have blank walls and ugly garage gates on them.

Maybe the parking can be converted to a small retail space one day when the market demands?

Posted by: eee at June 25, 2009 10:54 AM

How much on a Richter scale can this building withstand before it tips?

How fast does an 18-wheeler need to be while hitting into that southwestern corner pillar to bring the whole thing down?

Posted by: supereks at June 28, 2009 2:48 AM

For the record, denton is totally wrong about 4th Ave zoning. Retail is permitted!

Posted by: zinka at July 23, 2009 12:29 PM

« Police Tower Now on Nostrand Brooklyn Food & Drink Round-Up »

June 24, 2009

It Came From 4th Ave: The Electryifying Conclusion!

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