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June 11, 2009

House of the Day: 1600 Dorchester Road

This beautiful Victorian house at 1600 Dorchester Road has the distinction of having the only in-ground pool in Ditmas Park. And what a tastefully-done pool it is (especially when compared to what most pools in Brooklyn look like)! The interior of the house is gorgeous as well, with beautiful old floors and tastefully remodeled bathrooms. There should be no shortage of potential buyers coveting this place, the question is whether they will be willing to pay the asking price of $1,525,000. What do you think?
1600 Dorchester Road [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark

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Ditmas Park has Jumped the Shark.

Posted by: MoneyForNothing at June 11, 2009 1:16 PM

That Kennebec kitchen is about as expensive as it gets hor nice cabinetry.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 11, 2009 1:19 PM

I am not sure that most people who would want a house like this in this neighbrohood would want the additional cost/responsibility of this pool, great as it is.

Posted by: BH76 at June 11, 2009 1:22 PM

wa wa wi wa.

Posted by: Kensingtonian at June 11, 2009 1:24 PM

A pool like that pretty much eliminates the worry that your friends in Manhattan won't come out to visit you.

Posted by: manofelt at June 11, 2009 1:25 PM

That cabinetry is gorgeous. House has a ton of charm. Effects the right person could go for ask. The bottom line could be irrelevant.

Posted by: DeLepp at June 11, 2009 1:25 PM

its not the only in ground pool in the nabe

Posted by: Argyle Road at June 11, 2009 1:25 PM

Nice place. Nice enough that oversaturating that picture of the pool was completely unnecessary.

Would not be surprised if they got their asking price or even more. Ditmas Park is a very attractive neighborhood.

It's hard to see a place like this and even think about paying 750K for a cramped 2 bedroom, 900 sq. ft condo.

Posted by: northsloperenter at June 11, 2009 1:27 PM

Technically, the Agent wrote it is the only house in Ditmas Park with a "HUGE IN-GROUND SWIMMING POOL in the backyard!!"

Apparently size matters.

Posted by: Biff Champion at June 11, 2009 1:29 PM

When you consider what's the last sunny day we've had, I think the pool pix is probably just an old one.

Posted by: Arkady at June 11, 2009 1:30 PM

Maintenance/cost issues related to the in-ground pool could easily have the effect of limiting, not increasing, the buying "pool."

Posted by: East New York at June 11, 2009 1:31 PM

Perfect excuse for me to hire a "cabana boy."

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 11, 2009 1:34 PM

Pool - nice! I've always wanted an in-ground pool. I hope it has plenty of fencing and shrubbery around it. The last thing anyone wants is midnight pool parties by strangers, not to mention the chance of an accident.

The floors and the kitchen are really nice, but I wouldn't buy this place if I could afford it, too much detail has been removed. But, it probably appeals to more people that way, and with the pool - wouldn't be surprised if it gets pretty close to asking price.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at June 11, 2009 1:36 PM

Even if you don't think prices are coming down, comparables for the area have been running about the $1m mark.

The swimming pool is nice but the trade-off is that there is no garage (most of the houses in the area have garages). I've never paid for a swimming pool but I'm guessing the cost would not be that much different from building a garage.

It's a corner lot so you don't get the same privacy as the mid-block houses (partially mitigated by the thick hedges on the border).

The pictures make it look in great condition (Corcoran does seem to do nice photos) so I give them the benefit of the doubt and put it as one of the nicer houses in the area.

The ambitious pricing seems to be designed to get a buyer to think they are getting a bargain - $1m tops.

Posted by: the chicken at June 11, 2009 1:37 PM

I love it!
the pool is dreamy
great space - I don;t know much about the nabe, but from otehrs am guessing this is overpriced a bit
I would still guess at least 1.3 does the deal

Posted by: gemini10 at June 11, 2009 1:48 PM

I like the pool, its a nice addition. No need for a garage, street parking isn't much of a problem there.

Posted by: dittoburg at June 11, 2009 1:49 PM

Don't know anything about that block in particular but if the write-up is to believed, it's probably in a great DP location. Love the Kennebec kitchen cabinetry and the breakfast nook. Still, can't tell from the photo angle if that layout is the greatest though. Also don't see what is so "tastefully renovated" about the one bathroom shown. Looks like a HD job to me. But, taken as whole, and not even including the in ground swimmming pool (which is bigger than some whole living spaces that get featured on this site)I think this house is a really rather special and will likely go for over $1M.

Posted by: Brooklynista at June 11, 2009 1:54 PM

Ditto, you're right - street parking isn't a problem there but if every other house in the neighbourhood has it then the buyer would be right to incorporate that failing into their bid.

If this house had a garage AND the pool then you might be able to talk about a premium. Even then, it wouldn't be much of a premium. Almost every other house in the nabe could have an in-ground swimming pool for about $50k (I've googled it now) if they wanted.

Posted by: the chicken at June 11, 2009 1:57 PM

I walk by this house all the time. Impeccably landscaped, close to Cortelyou and the subway. There's no garage, but the neighborhood has tons of on-street parking; because so many people have driveways there are almost always spaces available.

Posted by: Ditmas at June 11, 2009 1:58 PM

Let's do the math:

Pool - fence = accident/lawsuit in your future.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at June 11, 2009 1:58 PM

Snark...I thought about that too and decided it was just out of the picture. My parents have a pool and they've always been required by law to have a fence. If some child wanders in and drowns then you can kiss your house goodbye.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 11, 2009 2:00 PM

that pool is actually kind of ghetto as far as in ground pools, no?

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 11, 2009 2:01 PM

They build a victorian-style glass-paned greenhouse too. Then I might buy it.

Posted by: dittoburg at June 11, 2009 2:01 PM

It's two blocks from me Brooklynista and I've walked past it many times.

It's right on the edge of Ditmas Park (the actual sub-division of DP, not the generic description of the area) and I'd say that part is below average for DP (although DP has a whole is still very very nice).

Put it this way, for $1.5m would you rather have this or the Arthur Ebinger Bakery House?
(http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2008/08/445_e_19th_stre.php)

Posted by: the chicken at June 11, 2009 2:04 PM

Why does the listing say townhouse? Is it attached to another building? The first photo on the website is cut off funny, so it's hard to tell.

Posted by: CG_ups at June 11, 2009 2:08 PM

I've walked by this house countless times, as well. It is updated and beautifully maintained. Although it is in landmarked Ditmas Park, it is a corner lot - most of the property abuts Dorchester Road, which is one of the less attractive roads in Victorian Flatbush. It is close to Cortelyou, though.

I think the owners are required by law to have the pool fenced in, and if memory serves me, this picture was taken from INSIDE the fenced in area... The property is fenced along Dorchester Road. Someone would have to jump the fence to get into the pool (stranger things have happened in Brooklyn).

There are quite a few, drecky, IMO, above ground pools in this nabe which have decks built around them to give them an "in ground" feel. Often they extend to the decks of the kitchen at the rear of the house. Almost always, this means there's no greenspace left in the back yard. This house is definitely a step up as it house with a real in ground pool (which I think is nice and very useful with older kids)AND green space.

I know of one another in-ground pool in the Victorian Flatbush area. It was in South Midwood on a double lot (there are a handful of double lots around...). Sold a few years ago.

This house is priced too high for one particular reason - Dorchester Road. In this market, 1.2 will be the selling price.

Posted by: Architerrorist at June 11, 2009 2:19 PM

The house is on a corner (irregular lot). There's more space for a pool here than the majority of homes in VF, which have to give up all of the rear green space to accommodate a pool. Most lots are just a tad too cramped for anything other than a tacky above ground deck job.

Posted by: Architerrorist at June 11, 2009 2:21 PM

It's on the corner of Dorchester across from a not so nice apartment building.
Not the greatest location!!

Posted by: Absolute Beginner at June 11, 2009 2:32 PM

"...what most pools in Brooklyn look like."

I don't know about you, but I can't think of another house with its own pool.

A pool is a lot of work, and I would imagine that it's a huge liability in NYC. I wouldn't want the work or the worry.

Posted by: BrooklynButler at June 11, 2009 2:33 PM

The opening scene to Sunset Boulevard comes to mind...

Posted by: SnarkSlope at June 11, 2009 2:38 PM

...and it comes with a magic tree that makes the sky brigher in the middle!

Posted by: sender9999 at June 11, 2009 2:38 PM

and why exactly at above ground pools "tacky?"

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 11, 2009 2:47 PM

cheap & tacky you mean.

Posted by: dittoburg at June 11, 2009 2:51 PM

The opening scene to Sunset Boulevard comes to mind...

Posted by: SnarkSlope at June 11, 2009 2:38 PM

And the closing one too!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 11, 2009 2:54 PM

Tacky - subjective, I guess. Just my opinion. I would consider a house with an in-ground pool if it was proportional to the property (as in this case), but I wouldn't even consider looking at a house with an above-ground pool.

Posted by: Architerrorist at June 11, 2009 2:55 PM

what about a house with a paddling pool?

Posted by: dittoburg at June 11, 2009 3:00 PM

This house has siding, too, which is also a minus in my book.

Posted by: Architerrorist at June 11, 2009 3:08 PM

Go on Rob, ask why siding is tacky.

Posted by: dittoburg at June 11, 2009 3:13 PM

Siding is ugly
Pools are expensive headaches
Who has time to swim?

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at June 11, 2009 3:23 PM

Tough crowd today!

Posted by: brownstoner at June 11, 2009 3:28 PM

Wow! What a house and I for one would love to have a pool that nice. I agree that 1.3 seems to be a good target for what this will go for.

Posted by: wasder at June 11, 2009 3:34 PM

Wasder, I got some magic beans that have your name all over them!

"I wouldn't even consider looking at a house with an above-ground pool.
Posted by: Architerrorist at June 11, 2009 2:55 PM"

Why not Archi? It's not a permanent structure and should be easily removed.

"This house has siding, too, which is also a minus in my book.
Posted by: Architerrorist at June 11, 2009 3:08 PM"

Ditto

Still no-one has risen to the bait as to whether they prefer this house to the Ebinger house? Here's the broker listing:
http://www.marykayg.com/html/0530.html

Posted by: the chicken at June 11, 2009 3:44 PM

lol. I see a place I actually like and everyone hates it.

I'm starting to think I want one of two things: a single family home or Manhattan.

Can't afford either right now :(.

Posted by: northsloperenter at June 11, 2009 3:51 PM

chicken - Ebinger Bakery, any day! i love that house and having been lusting after it every since it was posted months ago. it was originally 1.8M so it's coming down...

Posted by: bkny at June 11, 2009 3:55 PM

out of curiosity, (not that I can afford this house or any house with a pool) can anyone comment on how much it actually costs to maintain a pool similar to this one yearly?

Posted by: Kensingtonian at June 11, 2009 3:59 PM

Aluminum siding??? Forget it. Siding can be OK if its the 4" to the weather style but usually the fugliness comes with wrapping the window and door casings. Awful.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 11, 2009 4:02 PM

You need deep pockets to update the Ebinger house and it should (realistically) go for several hundred thousand more than this house. This house is updated, and you really don't have to do anything. I suppose you don't have to do anything to the Ebbinger house if you enjoy the early 80s look, but it would drive me nuts. I don't think a potential Ebbinger buyer and a buyer for this house have the same bank balances, necessarily. This house is 200-300K overpriced. I have always adored the Ebinger house. Some say too dark, but I love it. Give me either bright, bright, or arts and crafts atmospheric. Nothing bland or in between.

This house is great for a family with kids old enough to swim! Nothing to do, lots to enjoy (just ignore Dorchester - actually it's not awful, but not prime either).

Why would I not do siding or above ground pool? I've gut reno'd once, and that is more than enough for me. I don't want any more projects. I love and respect all those who tackle them, but I'm done. For now anyway. Ok, for the next 10 years.

Pools are not cheap to maintain, but IMO, worth it, if you have older kids.

Posted by: Architerrorist at June 11, 2009 4:04 PM

Pool guys in the 'burbs charge about 70 bucks a week to clean and maintain. That adds up, but with a few spare hours and a little know how, you can learn to tackle that issue yourself. I know several people who have done just that. Opening and closing will probably run you $700-800 (total). All in all, way cheaper than a cabana at the Seagull ($5K!!!! per year!).

Posted by: Architerrorist at June 11, 2009 4:08 PM

me too bkny - I think it started out at $2m+. Make an offer at what you can afford - you never know...

Kensingtonian, http://askville.amazon.com/cost-maintain-swimming-pool/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=7514639

Posted by: the chicken at June 11, 2009 4:08 PM

sorry Archi, the ditto was that I agree with you on the anti-siding sentiment. Perhaps I should have written "+1".

I also agree with you that a buyer of those two houses would have different bank balances and that was my point on pricing. If Ebinger went for $1.3m, would that change your view on the right price for this?

Posted by: the chicken at June 11, 2009 4:19 PM

it's the chlorine that is expensive, no? you dont really HAVE to use chlorine in your pool if you don't want to. just keep the skanks away and don't pee in it.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 11, 2009 4:34 PM

Every wood frame house has siding. Sometimes it's wood, sometimes it's vinyl, or asbestos, or aluminum. Siding is what keeps the weather out.

I have wood, but I'm jealous of my neighbors with the asbestos shingles, since those things hold paint forever and look great in my opinion.

Posted by: Sparafucile at June 11, 2009 4:35 PM

Many new products!
Shingles, siding, whatever!
Find out more online!

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at June 11, 2009 5:00 PM

chicken - that house is my 'vision of granduer', mostly a pipe dream..i am in no position to make that offer..it's all you kiddo...

Posted by: bkny at June 11, 2009 5:02 PM

What does the pool add to homeowners/liability insurence?

Posted by: BH76 at June 11, 2009 5:09 PM

I've seen the ebinger house. In fact, I inquired if they were looking for a lower offer to get it on the move. I expect you could get that house for $1.2 MM or so.

However, based on the pics, I think I'd rather have this house. It's bright and open.

Posted by: slick at June 11, 2009 5:18 PM

slick, the Corcoran photography department probably has a lot to do with that.

The Ebinger house has to be 50% bigger than this one - it's like comparing a Bentley to a BMW. It's fine if you prefer the BMW for whatever reason but you'd be crazy to pay the same price as the Bentley.

Posted by: the chicken at June 11, 2009 5:55 PM

Great comparison, chicken.

Posted by: Architerrorist at June 11, 2009 6:12 PM

This amazing house does indeed have an off-street parking space. The pool is perfectly maintained. It costs $1300/season to service the pool (open and close, and bi-weekly cleaning); $650 to open and close only; and about $300 in utilities(gas heater). This Victorian is stellar, in every way. It is maintained with utmost style given every detail. A buyer's dream!

Posted by: magcapurso at June 11, 2009 7:05 PM

lovely home. well worth 1.3 million. shows how overpriced most other properties in the borough are.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at June 11, 2009 7:55 PM

Slick - Pls give a blow-by-blow of the interior of the Ebinger house!

Posted by: Architerrorist at June 11, 2009 8:07 PM

Why no floor plan?

Posted by: Miss Muffett at June 11, 2009 9:12 PM

Oh, and I do think this is a very pretty house (but don't like Ebinger at all - yuck). That part of Bklyn is still kind of mysterious to me though, and hubby refuses to consider...

Posted by: Miss Muffett at June 11, 2009 9:32 PM

For once I don't find this listing spectacularly overpriced, just somewhat overpriced. It's a lovely house, well-maintained, with the unique feature of the pool. Particularly gorgeous dining room, at least in photos. I agree with Architerrorist about Dorchester, but proximity to Cortelyou is a plus for most city-minded buyers who don't want to be too far from amenities. I would expect it to go for around $1.3 million at least.

For myself, I vastly prefer the Ebinger house, which I've only seen from the outside. Unique, amazing place, a true mansion. But I guess that one is for specialized tastes and it would require a lot of energy to spruce up. Then you have to clean and maintain it. A house like that is more of a vocation than a dwelling.

Posted by: gidgetgoesbrooklyn at June 11, 2009 10:03 PM

I know that house, and have lusted after the grounds and pool in summer. I only know of 1 other in the area with a real pool, and it's South Midwood. The double lot mentioned above. This is way more prime. We also live here in Victorian Flatbush, and can tell you both this and Ebinger are great/amazing homes. But did you notice the quality light fixtures, good floors, and do I see central air? All major pluses. These homes can cost a pretty penny if not well maintained. I'd go for great upkeep whenever possible. If you think of all that can go wrong: squirrel infestations, bad roof, old heating, windows that don't open, overpainted woodwork, etc.
Miss Muffett, this part of Brooklyn is full of surprises and quirks, which after 5 years we're still getting to know. Love it more each year, can tell you that. And love being on a decent subway line! Beats my prior incarnation up by Columbia U, for instance, in terms of convenience to the parts of Manhattan I actually want and need to get to.

Posted by: tinmouse10 at June 11, 2009 11:16 PM

I'm pretty sure I went to a pool party at this house when I was a freshman in high school. Raging hormones + girls in bikinis = the only memorable party from that year in my life. If you have teenage kids, you'd be doing a great service to them if you bought this house.

Posted by: nycdelisauce at June 12, 2009 1:36 PM

I grew up in this 'hood, and this house is amazing. It's the first one you see walking down 16th from the Cortelyou subway, and it's really impressive. The grounds are immaculate (and huge compared to the more "secluded" homes on the side streets). I'd take the huge yard over the other homes' small yards any day (see pool party comment above - haha). And, there are PLENTY of hipsters migrating that way, so all the less attractive apartments and homes in the area are only going to get better. So, although the Dorchester location isn't as quiet it's that much closer to the subway and bars/restaurants/action. I mean - if you want picturesque vistas -move to CT. This is like the mansion in the city. Oh, and I noticed the owners have put in a driveway.

Posted by: AESChelsea at June 12, 2009 5:32 PM

This is a lovely house on many levels... But it's still overpriced for several reasons, all stated above. You can't compare it to prime PPS or DP homes. It just isn't architecturally distinctive enough, say like Ebbinger or Japanese House...

Figures Muffett doesn't like Ebbinger... When will she just buy something and BE QUIET!

Posted by: Architerrorist at June 13, 2009 8:58 AM

i happen to like the ebbinger house, buy i can see why others may not: dark, lots of work, etc.

you hang in there muffet, don't let 'em bully you. take as long as you need to find the right deal. i'm sure you're glad you waited this long. i know i am.

Posted by: manofelt at June 13, 2009 11:07 PM

« Foreclosure of the Week: 115 Fenimore Street Streetlevel: Tish James Campaign HQ Opens on Fulton »

June 11, 2009

House of the Day: 1600 Dorchester Road

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