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June 10, 2009
CB6, Fifth Avenue BID Going After Bike Lane
The Fifth Avenue BID wants to do away with the bike lane that runs from Carroll Street to 24th Street, and Community Board 6 is listening, reports Streets Blog. The BID argues that the bike lane makes it too difficult for trucks to make deliveries to the many businesses that line the avenue and that more tickets are getting issued as a result. CB6 District Manager Craig Hammerman has suggested a compromise—downgrading from a full-fledged bike lane to sharrows, lighter-weight markings. "The proposed scenario wouldn't do anything to help delivery drivers find curbside spots," writes the blog, "but it would force cyclists to kiss their dedicated space goodbye." Streets Blog thinks the answer lies in a fledgling program that's been experimented with along Fifth Avenue that makes metered parking more expensive at peak times.
Fifth Ave BID, CB6 Take Aim at Park Slope Bike Lane [Streets Blog]
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Comments
i think youre just baiting people now with all these bike posts.
for the most part, 99 percent of citizens dont give a crap about bikers. "bikers" lol.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 10, 2009 9:34 AM
for the most part, 99 percent of citizens dont give a crap about bikers. "bikers" lol.
QOTD
I'm with the business owners on this one.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 10, 2009 9:36 AM
Bikers are fat guys with beards, beer bellys and pickelhaube helmets that ride motorbikes.
You mean bicyclists.
Posted by: dittoburg at June 10, 2009 9:38 AM
"I'm with the business owners on this one. "
Maybe Dave will be willing to let us bikers borrow one of his fleet of automobiles as an alternate mode of transport.
Classic case of "This doesn't effect me so who cares"
Posted by: dirty_hipster at June 10, 2009 9:39 AM
quote:
You mean bicyclists.
that just sounds too gay-ish and metrosexual. sorry if you ride a bike. youre a "biker"
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 10, 2009 9:41 AM
The issuance of tickets and the difficulties of getting stock delivered to stores because of this effects the customers of the stores. This is a congested city and food, etc has to be delivered and the delivery of such is more important than making special lanes for bicycles.
rob is right...for every one bicycle in that lane there are probably well over 100 people on the sidewalk andin the stores being effected by this
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 10, 2009 9:42 AM
How about calling them wheelers?
Posted by: Arkady at June 10, 2009 9:43 AM
I'm really curious... when did the trucks STOP parking in the bike lane? Just because there's a stripe painted in the ground doesn't mean people don't park and ride in it.
OH Yeah... and how many parking tickets have these trucks gotten? Are they getting tickets for the bike lane or DOUBLE-PARKING? Or... as I suspect... none of the above. Just whining.
The bike lanes are for increased visibility. It doesn't prevent people parking or driving in them. There's no magic force field. It just makes people slightly more conscious that there may be a two-wheeled vehicle in the vicinity.
Such a ridiculous fight for the BID to go after.
Posted by: tybur6 at June 10, 2009 9:43 AM
"Bikers are fat guys with beards, beer bellys and pickelhaube helmets that ride motorbikes.
Posted by: dittoburg at June 10, 2009 9:38 AM"
Oy! That's me!
Posted by: the chicken at June 10, 2009 9:47 AM
"The issuance of tickets and the difficulties of getting stock delivered to stores because of this effects the customers of the stores. This is a congested city and food, etc has to be delivered and the delivery of such is more important than making special lanes for bicycles."
Then make a floating lane outside the bike lane like they did on Grand St on Manhattan, or like they are planning on doing on Kent Ave in the Burg.
Seriously though - what truck is going to say "oh no, a bike lane, can't illegally double park THERE!"
Posted by: dirty_hipster at June 10, 2009 9:48 AM
Sorry chicken, no lane for you
Posted by: dittoburg at June 10, 2009 9:49 AM
It was a bad idea to begin with to put the bike lane on a heavily trafficed commercial two way street that's lousy with pedestrians, delivery trucks, and store/bar parking.
The bike lanes (which are not a bad idea) would be better placed be put on other avenues- with less delivery traffic and fewer crowds of pedestrians crossing mid block during peak hours- like 6th ave, for instance-
Posted by: Park Place at June 10, 2009 9:50 AM
Why not jsut shift the bike lane up to the less commercial and truck-free 6th Avenue? Though that might be too narrow . . .
Posted by: speedboy10 at June 10, 2009 9:51 AM
I use this lane often and its a pointless battle. Logistically there will always be delivery trucks who need access then add oblivious dble parkers and livery cars and the bike lane along with many others is useless and becomes more of a danger to cyclist.
No amount of enforcement or enlightenment will make non cyclist empathetic. 6th ave is far to narrow, 7th and 5th are far too populated with retail.Although it host more than 4 bike stores, park slope will never be bike friendly,this does not surprise me.
Posted by: DowningByLaw at June 10, 2009 9:52 AM
Is there a separate (higher amount) ticket for parking in a bike lane or is it just the customary double parking ticket??? Most delivery companies have factored double parking tickets into their cost of doing business. The larger ones, like FedEx just negotiate a flat yearly fee to the City to cover all the parking tickets.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 10, 2009 9:53 AM
Park Place / speedboy have nailed it. Not the right avenue for a bike lane.
The viability of the commercial strip depends on the ability of trucks to deliver there efficiently.
Posted by: etson at June 10, 2009 9:53 AM
Rob - FYI bicycles are metrosexual relative to motorbikes.
Posted by: dittoburg at June 10, 2009 9:54 AM
This whole discussion is ridiculous - the bike lanes are just an easy target.
People who don't bike have no idea how useful even a cursory bike line is in improving safety for bikers pitted against aggressive and indifferent drivers. Let's not regress any more than we have to as a city. Besides, just look at Bway, 9th ave, etc. in Manhattan - MUCH more congested there, yet everyone gets along fine.
Posted by: collin85 at June 10, 2009 9:54 AM
6th avenue would be the worst alternative for bike lanes
ugh! - that avenue is annoying to get from Flatbush down to 14th street already, add an bike lane and it will take you 40 mins to drive that stretch.
Posted by: gemini10 at June 10, 2009 9:54 AM
exactly park place. put bike lanes on less travelled streets. im sorry but the green bike lanes in prime soho are just laughable. delivery trucks NEED to make deliveries (a lot!) i know this i work here, and there are a gazillion clueless cell phone yapping people walking around not looking anyway, so it's a stupid idea in this area.
i will say, making the bus ONLY lane in soho on broadway is great. it's so much easier to cross the street (whether it's green or red)
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 10, 2009 9:55 AM
If commercial deliveries are the problem, why not just put a no parking zone along the entire length of 5th avenue? You could even make it during business hours only. Problem solved, and you keep the bike lane.
Anybody who thinks these bike lanes are a)lightly used or b) respected by anyone in a car or truck is out to lunch.
This is a the result of someone (emphasis on the ONE) who doesn't like bikes using their business and their post on the BID to wage a personal campaign. Should be dismissed with as same contempt as the neighborhood has for the food at her restaurant....
Posted by: slopenick at June 10, 2009 9:58 AM
"i will say, making the bus ONLY lane in soho on broadway is great. it's so much easier to cross the street (whether it's green or red)"
Ha Rob - I bet you're one of the people that sprints out into oncomming traffic on Broadway getting off the Prince St R stop in the morning.
The Prince St bike lane is a failure - I never see it being used. Lots of people seem to use the Grand St bike lane in the morning rather then use Delancey St - It just sucks that Grand turns one way after Chrystie.
Posted by: dirty_hipster at June 10, 2009 9:59 AM
I'd hate to live in SoHo. Talk about a place with too many Asshats.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 10, 2009 10:01 AM
Perhaps turning 6th avenue into a one-way street (all the while regulating cars' speed with properly timed traffic lights) isn't such a terrible idea. You could get a nice wide lane and a bike lane.
Posted by: heck_of_a_job_brownie at June 10, 2009 10:02 AM
"People who don't bike have no idea how useful even a cursory bike line is in improving safety for bikers pitted against aggressive and indifferent drivers"
Exactly! It does not stop trucks parking there, so what's the beef. That said:
I am one cyclist (not 'biker', thank you Rob, how would you like it if I called you by a pejorative name which I can think of?) who accepts trucks parking in bike lanes. I have no difficulty going around them, and anyone who thinks they shouldn't park in them for essential deliveries (or who thinks it's "dangerous") should not be on a bike.
Posted by: cmu at June 10, 2009 10:06 AM
What tyburg and slopenick said. What idiocy. There's no special fine for double parking in the bike lane. It's illegal to double park, period. Much higher meter prices would create curbside space for deliveries; no parking 8am-6pm on at least one side of the street would be another way to go. As it is, people just feed the meter all day -- ALSO illegal -- hell, it only costs $4 to park for eight hours on 5th ave., why not. 5th ave is a hellish drive because of all the double parking -- has not a freaking thing to do with the bike lane.
Posted by: southbrooklyn at June 10, 2009 10:07 AM
"Sorry chicken, no lane for you
Posted by: dittoburg at June 10, 2009 9:49 AM"
The Chicken makes his own lane......grrrrr..... (or should that be "squawk"?)
Posted by: the chicken at June 10, 2009 10:07 AM
tybur6 has this right. the bike lane doesn't prevent trucks from physically double parking, so what's the issue? I would be very surprised if the bike lane was actually enforced enough to create hardship for the businesses.
Posted by: squaredrive at June 10, 2009 10:09 AM
The more I think about it, the more unbelievable it is that businesses are claiming the bike lane is interfering with deliveries! It's the business owners OWN CARS, illegally parked ALL DAY at meters that are blocking deliveries.
DIBS, ready to back away from your silly "I'm with the business owners on this one" comment?
Posted by: southbrooklyn at June 10, 2009 10:11 AM
I don't think that a narrow commercial Street like 5th Avenue is a very good place for bike lanes. 6th Avenue, while less congested, is even narrower, but why not move the bike lanes to 4th Avenue? FWIW I used that street quite safely when I lived in the S. Slope and rode to work in lower Manhattan (and YES, they DID have plenty of cars and trucks on 4th Avenue back then--the cars were much bigger in the early 70s).
Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 10, 2009 10:16 AM
I doubt that all the cars parked there belong to the business owners. As long as they feed the meter, why not. There's no entitlement to a parking spot. If there is a cap on the total amount of time they are parking there then the meter maids are not doing their jobs.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 10, 2009 10:16 AM
BTW I agree with DIBS on this--I'm also with the business owners on this one. I'm adding that just to annoy the humorless and over-zealous southbrooklyn [who HATES emoticons] :-)
Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 10, 2009 10:20 AM
OK this bike crap is getting stupid.
Posted by: dirty_hipster at June 10, 2009 10:22 AM
Take away all bike lanes - I'll just ride in the middle of the street @ 10mph.
Posted by: dirty_hipster at June 10, 2009 10:24 AM
quote:
I am one cyclist (not 'biker', thank you Rob, how would you like it if I called you by a pejorative name which I can think of?)
LOL! i love it. now "biker" is a "pejorative" term. lol. okay cyclist. sorry, youre a bike, youre on a bike.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 10, 2009 10:28 AM
Why don't I ever see people getting tickets for double parking on fking FLATBUSH AVE!! Who cares about 5th.
Posted by: IronMaiden at June 10, 2009 10:30 AM
hey no one even touched this yesterday in the other bike thread. i wonder why. by why dont "cyclists" lolz have to have licenses!? and pay for insurance? someone PLEASE address this. it would be GREAT for the city economically and if you really wanna turn the city into a bike city that badly, you should have to pay for the insurance AND get a license. it's only fair!!!
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 10, 2009 10:30 AM
Rob, you're a damn computerer
Posted by: dittoburg at June 10, 2009 10:31 AM
Rob, I know you are anti-grammar, anti-spelling and anti-peacock but take this test. Go to Google, type in "cyclist" and see what images come up. Go to Google type in "biker" and see what images come up.
You can go against the tide if you want, but to communicate we really need to be on the same page.
Posted by: dittoburg at June 10, 2009 10:41 AM
If they are really concerned about trucks making deliveries then they should lower the speed limit on the road.
Posted by: Karka at June 10, 2009 10:43 AM
What does the speed limit have to do with trucks double parked making deliveries.
Don't get me started on cyclists that ride right through intersections against the light.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 10, 2009 10:45 AM
DIBS, stop with it already!!! Cyclists who slow or stop at red lights and then go thru are NO MORE DANGEROUS than pedestrians who jaywalk. Get out of your damned car(s) and live a little.
Posted by: cmu at June 10, 2009 11:05 AM
I'd rather live a little and go drinking with bikers than with cyclists.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 10, 2009 11:24 AM
Wow. Everyone jumping all over this.
See http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/parking/park_tickets_violations.shtml
Code 46 is for double parking- but there is a carve out for deliveries.
Code 48 is for blocking a bike lane.
Fact is- the existence of a bike lane DOES increase the fines for delivery truck operators.
If everyone agrees that the existence of a bike lane does not prevent a truck from double parking- why not acknowledge the absence of one does not prevent bikes from traveling up and down the avenue- but reduces the chance of fines from NYC meter maids?
Bike lane tickets have no carve out for deliveries.
Posted by: panda10 at June 10, 2009 11:26 AM
ugh im so tired of this topic of bikes vs. cars. vs. pedestrians. i am SO popping tires tonight in PS.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 10, 2009 11:33 AM
" you should have to pay for the insurance AND get a license. it's only fair!!!"
Amen!!!!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at June 10, 2009 11:35 AM
Bike lanes article?
Check.
Bushwick hipsters article?
Check.
Nothing but reruns these days it seems.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at June 10, 2009 11:35 AM
Seriously Snark - we haven't had a good race-baiting gentrification article in at least 2 weeks.
Posted by: dirty_hipster at June 10, 2009 11:46 AM
It's funny how in the pre-bike lane era in NYC (1970s 1980s some of the 1990s), folks like me rode bikes in the street alongside cars while truck made deliveries. There was a complete lack of rancor regarding this issue. Cyclists rode, trucks parked, and everyone went about their business. I miss the old days.
Posted by: East New York at June 10, 2009 11:51 AM
Good point, ENY. Yes, there are more cyclists on the street these days but the minute the government steps in things start to go wrong.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 10, 2009 11:56 AM
DH, think you need to wear something with a "DH" logo when cycling around slowly in middle of street - else you run huge risk of me running you over.
Posted by: more4less at June 10, 2009 11:56 AM
"Seriously Snark - we haven't had a good race-baiting gentrification article in at least 2 weeks."
I think that bullshit is coming to a end! Gentrification is FUCKING Dead!!!!!
You lost and Fucked upped a great city! Follow the U-Hall trucks back to OHIO!!!
The What (CYA!)
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at June 10, 2009 12:00 PM
No one from here on brownstoner is leaving, What. Take that crap elsewhere.
You left a great City and now you want to come back from NJ.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 10, 2009 12:04 PM
So I'm kind of wondering how the bike lane impacts deliveries while the wall of parked cars doens't?
Posted by: Boerum Hill at June 10, 2009 12:14 PM
ironic if one of the stores is a bicycle store and they can't get their deliveries because, you know, you're not allowed to block the bicycle lane.
Posted by: sam at June 10, 2009 12:25 PM
is that from the alanis morrissette department of irony sam?
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 10, 2009 12:35 PM
"So I'm kind of wondering how the bike lane impacts deliveries while the wall of parked cars doens't?"
Bingo. I am so tired of the entitlement from car drivers, and I have a car in the city myself.
Pedestrians get run over and killed every day, bikers get killed every week, and drivers whine that traffic is bad, people get in their way, and it's hard to find parking.
Bike lanes are important because they create a place on the street for bikes. This makes it less likely that people riding bikes will get hurt or killed in a collision with a car or truck. It also makes it more likely that people will ride bikes, which puts less wear and tear on the streets, less demand on public transit, less pollution, and a healthier population.
I'm sorry that some delivery-people are inconvenienced by this. There are solutions for this problem. For instance, a dedicated loading/unloading zone on every commercial block is a good idea. Unfortunately, many of these business owners can't reconcile their personal desire for free parking at work with the consequences of this free parking in a neighborhood whose density makes their store profitable.
They want to blame it on the bikers. But, uh, "slightly lower tickets for double parking" is not a good strategy for making things better.
Posted by: bkrules at June 10, 2009 12:38 PM
rob - is that becuase you live in the latter?
Posted by: dittoburg at June 10, 2009 12:39 PM
I really do think that riding a bicycle can effect the brain. I think it is a combination of the endorphins and the tight helmets.
Without cars and trucks how would merchandise, including food and clothing and building material and bicycles get shipped into the city? Is that an entitlement? sometimes people have to haul around more stuff than just a pair of tight latex shorts and a water bottle.
Posted by: sam at June 10, 2009 1:12 PM
There was one intelligent suggestion up top about making parking illegal except for deliveries during business hours on 5th avenue. What's wrong with that plan? It disincentivizes private car use, which is clearly desirable and provides an orderly place for delivery trucks to park. I find the notion that we will get rid of a bike lane FOR THE PURPOSE OF ALLOWING DELIVERY TRUCKS TO DOUBLE PARK to be insane.
Posted by: CuriousGeorge at June 10, 2009 1:40 PM
"I'm sorry that some delivery-people are inconvenienced by this. There are solutions for this problem. For instance, a dedicated loading/unloading zone on every commercial block is a good idea."
Absurdly impractical.
"It disincentivizes private car use, which is clearly desirable"
If you take the cars out of Brooklyn, property values will go SPLAT.
Posted by: northsloperenter at June 10, 2009 1:58 PM
If its zoned commercial, a business owner should be able to assume that he can get deliveries. You don't put the bike lane in later and then change all the rules on them. Except for Manhattan, the parking laws allow for double parking for delivery. Then they throw in the bike lane which has different rules. Assinine.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 10, 2009 2:00 PM
I think we should follow the precedent set by the incredibly succesful Fulton Mall, and create charming, practical, and upscale pedestrian malls on all of Brooklyn's shopping streets.
(PS: for some readers lacking a sense of humor, the above is meant ironically and perhaps a tad facetiously)
thank you
Posted by: sam at June 10, 2009 2:05 PM
> I think we should follow the precedent set by the incredibly successful Fulton Mall
I agree. And I am not being facetious.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at June 10, 2009 2:21 PM
"incredibly successful Fulton Mall"
What's not successful about the Fulton Mall?
Posted by: dirty_hipster at June 10, 2009 2:28 PM
I've been cycling through the city since I was a child, and I agree that bicycle lanes are unnecessary except as a political statement. Bike lanes send the message that bicycles are toys, that need to be segregated in their own protected play area. Bicycles are vehicles, and they should operate in the same right-of-way as other vehicles.
Posted by: Sparafucile at June 10, 2009 2:30 PM
snarkle: if you're not being facetious then you're being idiotic. or more likely contrarian. Did your parents or teachers ever say that you were contrarian? usually it starts early in life, by age six or seven.
Posted by: sam at June 10, 2009 2:42 PM
> What's not successful about the Fulton Mall?
They don't sell anything that sam wants.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at June 10, 2009 2:43 PM
sam dislikes the Fulton Mall because it's not a "chic Euro-style" mall (see yesterday's "Albee Square" thread). To sam, it's much more important to be trendy, chic and European than to make money - it's been reported here several times that the Fulton mall is one of the highest-grossing shopping districts in the country.
Posted by: East New York at June 10, 2009 2:46 PM
I don't like the Fulton mall, I think it is a disgrace. It was a sixties urban design project that was foisted on the merchants and residents. As a result most of the major stores that once lined Fulton closed, most of the restaurants did too including the venerable Gage and Tollners. What is left is more or less crappy merchandise and crappy fast food. Other than that, it's great.
Posted by: sam at June 10, 2009 2:52 PM
con⋅trar⋅i⋅an (noun)
A person show disagrees with sam, or who questions the theory of the samocentric universe.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at June 10, 2009 2:54 PM
Certainly not the place to go shopping for a duvet though.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 10, 2009 3:00 PM
Snarkle, the proper term is "samcratic".
Posted by: sam at June 10, 2009 3:05 PM
this is all covert bike/bike race warfare.
Posted by: dittoburg at June 10, 2009 3:05 PM
northsloperenter writes:
"I'm sorry that some delivery-people are inconvenienced by this. There are solutions for this problem. For instance, a dedicated loading/unloading zone on every commercial block is a good idea."
Absurdly impractical.
"It disincentivizes private car use, which is clearly desirable"
If you take the cars out of Brooklyn, property values will go SPLAT.
******
Why is it "absurdly impractical" to have a dedicated loading zone on every commercial block? Wouldn't that do wonders to improve the flow of traffic of all kinds on 5th Ave., bicycle and car?
And why do you equate a disincentive to use a private car with taking cars out of Brooklyn? Who said we should take cars out of Brooklyn?
I'd bet that not a few of the cars parked on 5th Ave. belong to those who work on the avenue and that they are parked there all day. How would it cause property prices to "go SPLAT" if those folks were charged the going rate for commercial parking rather than a measly $4 a day? And if we charged more for parking on 5th, we would certainly reduce the number of people who choose to drive to their jobs on that strip and thus we would have room for both loading zones AND parking for people who drive there to shop etc.
Double parking on 5th Ave. makes traffic there a nightmare. It slows the buses down to a crawl. It creates potentially hazardous situations for pedestrians. It makes it more dangerous to ride your bike. Solving the delivery problem would vastly improve the experience for everybody. It clearly needs repeating that the problem of double parking isn't caused by the bike lane.
Finally, I'm pretty sure that Manhattan has some of the lowest rates of car ownership in the city. Funny how that hasn't made the property values there go splat.
Better streetscapes mean increased property values. A serious plan to address the dysfunctions of 5th Ave. is something all nearby owners should be hoping for.
Posted by: southbrooklyn at June 10, 2009 3:07 PM
> this is all covert bike/bike race warfare.
AKA Tour de Snark.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at June 10, 2009 3:08 PM
"As a result most of the major stores that once lined Fulton closed, most of the restaurants did too including the venerable Gage and Tollners."
Meanwhile changing consumer tastes, the national decline of department-store retailers, the rise of online shopping, the fact that Gage & Tollner's primary clientele had either died or long ago moved on to other areas, that had nothing to do with the closing of these retailers. It was all due to the sixties urban design project. Meanwhile, millions of people continue to shop here each year. Apparently, that really bothers sam. I wonder why?
Posted by: East New York at June 10, 2009 3:11 PM
if they'd invented those jet space-bikes by now (like they promised when I was a kid would be here by the year 2000) none of this would be a problem.
Posted by: dittoburg at June 10, 2009 3:29 PM
> Brilliant.
I'll have to agree with you, ENY, lest I face further accusations of being a contrarian.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at June 10, 2009 3:30 PM
southbrooklyn,
As for the practicality:
Imagine going up to a restaurant and telling them you are putting the loading zone for the block outside their business and that their customers can look forward to lots of diesel exhaust and the nuisance of product being unloaded from trucks and moved down the block while they have lunch.
Then go to every business on the block and tell them to stagger their delivery times so that no two businesses receive deliveries at the same time.
Then repeat this 30 or 40 times (you'll have to do both sides of the street).
--------
Forbidding parking (or increasing fees) on 5th will prevent some people from shopping or going to restaurants there which will hurt local businesses (whether or not YOU think people should use cars to shop or go out to eat is not the issue...). Preventing employees from driving to work just limits the pool of employees that owners can hire from (resulting in worse employees, higher costs, or both).
It will also increase parking pressure on all the side streets which will make it more aggravating for residents to park on the street. I already considering it too aggravating to own a car, but many of my neighbors do not. However, they have limits as well. If their limits are crossed, they have to decide whether to (1) give up the car or (2) leave the neighborhood. Even if only 20% choose option #2, that will affect demand for property. It can be a pain to raise children in the city without a car...
---------
Manhattan is an entirely different situation. All of the neighborhoods that are more expensive the Park Slope are, in many ways, a more convenient places to live (i.e., less need of a car), and you can walk out of any store or restaurant in Manhattan, go to the curb, wave your arm, and get a cab.
I do so miss those nice yellow cabs...
Posted by: northsloperenter at June 10, 2009 4:07 PM
P.S. Now there is idea to reduce private car use in Brooklyn! Allow metered taxis to pick people up on the street just like in Manhattan! I bet you could make a decent living just driving your taxi from Flatbush to 16th and back along 5th and 7th.
Posted by: northsloperenter at June 10, 2009 4:08 PM
I agree with everything Sparafucile wrote at 2:30 PM[except that I didn't learn to ride until I was in my mid-twenties].The relatively new bicycle lanes in my neighborhood [PLG], on Lincoln Road and Maple Street, are especially unnecessary since these are sparsely traveled residential Streets, with light car traffic and (at most times of day) virtually NO bicycle usage. These blke lanes are indeed political statements that merely make it difficult for residents to unload and let off passengers. They provide no additional safety to cyclists on these streets, which were extremely safe before the bike lanes.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 10, 2009 4:13 PM
"Why is it "absurdly impractical" to have a dedicated loading zone on every commercial block? Wouldn't that do wonders to improve the flow of traffic of all kinds on 5th Ave., bicycle and car?"
Exactly. Most of Manhattan's commercial district is set aside for commercial vehicles during business hours.
RIP Elizabeth Padilla, who was killed by the driver of a PC Richards delivery truck that couldn't be bothered to check before flinging his door open and throwing her into traffic. Yes, on 5th Avenue. Eighty posts and already no one remembers her.
Posted by: denton at June 10, 2009 4:16 PM
denton,
I walk past her bike almost every day of the week. It is a sad sight.
And maybe that's why I feel so strongly that bike advocates should STOP encouraging people to bike on the streets of this city. It is not safe.
nsr
Posted by: northsloperenter at June 10, 2009 4:23 PM
quote:
Eighty posts and already no one remembers her.
and uh, why exactly are we supposed to? maybe that sounds harsh, sorry.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 10, 2009 4:45 PM
Most people do not "need" a car in the inner areas of Brooklyn like PS, CH, etc. And as one who's both brought up a kid and lived in a walk up (another thread) it's not all that hard. People are so wedded to their convenience; if you want it that bad, go live in the suburbs where parking is easy.
We need to totally dis-incentivize cars; that's the only way things will improve. and adding bike lanes is one good way to calm traffic, whether or not they're used today.
Posted by: cmu at June 10, 2009 4:58 PM
cmu,
1) Don't see how you are in a position to know what people do or do not need. Also, don't see what is wrong with wanting convenience.
2) Don't see how worsening congestion by adding unneeded bike lanes makes anything better for anyone.
Posted by: etson at June 10, 2009 5:04 PM
It's pretty damn dangerous to walk in NYC too - remember that poor pregnant woman who got pinned against a building by a drunk delivery guy in midtown (cut in half too, that wasn't in the papers)
Riding taxis isn't very safe either - two college classmates of mine got killed on the west side highway during my senior year, one girl was ejected through the windshield.
For every tragic bike accident you have - there are several more pedestrian/automobile accidents.
Sounds like most of the bike accidents could be avoided if motorists were more aware of their surroundings.
Posted by: dirty_hipster at June 10, 2009 5:07 PM
CMU,
The two PLG streets I mentioned can hardly be calmed further by bike lanes. They've always had little traffic and been about as calm as they can get short of erecting barricades. About the only traffic calming measures needed IMO would be speed humps to slow down the occasional speeder, and DOT has been extremely unhelpful about those.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 10, 2009 5:10 PM
Northsloperenter says, "Forbidding parking (or increasing fees) on 5th will prevent some people from shopping or going to restaurants there which will hurt local businesses (whether or not YOU think people should use cars to shop or go out to eat is not the issue...)"
Besides the fact that the number of pedestrians far outnumber the amount of cars that can and do park on 5th Ave., let's not outlaw parking. Let's instead take three spots out of every block for dedicated loading zones. Even if your basic premise - that discouraging driving along 5th Ave. in Park Slope - is right, eliminating a few spots will have a negligible impact on business along what is essentially a neighborhood strip.
So we allow trucks their own spots flush against the sidewalk. They don't block the flow of traffic or create congestion, and they don't block bicycles, containing people more prone to stopping and shopping than drivers, from getting by.
Posted by: BenK at June 10, 2009 5:23 PM
cmu,
Did you walk to school in the snow uphill both ways too?
Besides, I thought Brooklyn *was* the suburbs...
BenK -- good luck keeping those spaces clear of cars. You people just don't seem to know 5th ave...
nsr
Posted by: northsloperenter at June 10, 2009 5:53 PM
omg nsr, im glad u signed off as nsr i just looked at your name and always thought it said northslopeparent! notrenter. so some of your posts always rang as weird to me hahaha
also benk's ideas are pretty good!
rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 10, 2009 6:34 PM
I say "bikers" and pedestrians fight each other for the sidewalks and we bring back trolley-only streets. Class/race/age/nativist/out-of-towner baiting, Yay!
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at June 11, 2009 2:34 AM
Maybe we should just dig canals everywhere...
rob -- when I created this id, I was not a parent...
Posted by: northsloperenter at June 11, 2009 9:29 AM
northsloperenter: "BenK -- good luck keeping those spaces clear of cars. You people just don't seem to know 5th ave..."
I don't really see how you can state that while claiming to "know" 5th Ave. better than the rest of us. Keeping those spaces clear of cars is really simple: Toss up a few no parking signs, take out the meters and ticket cars that park in them. It works at bus stops, fire hydrants and school zones, right? It's the same thing but for delivery trucks.
Posted by: BenK at June 11, 2009 11:23 AM
I've seen little evidence that it works for bus stops, fire hydrants, and school zones.
Posted by: northsloperenter at June 11, 2009 11:44 AM
I don't know what else to tell you then. Either you must not spend too much time walking around the city or you have an incredibly pessimistic view of sensible solutions to the city's transportation issues. No personal offense meant.
Posted by: BenK at June 11, 2009 12:24 PM
None taken BenK. I just don't think you can designate 2 or 3 loading/unloading zones on each block of 5th and have it work in any meaningful way.
There are already bus stops on 1/3 of the blocks and fire hydrants on most (all?) of them. That doesn't leave a lot of space for multiple loading zones, and it doesn't make sense to me to forbid parking 24/7 so that someone can unload for 45 minutes on a Tuesday morning.
I'm not sure all the grief involved in doing this is worth it just to try to save a bike lane that is of dubious wisdom.
Anyway, enough... It's not going to happen in any event.
Posted by: northsloperenter at June 11, 2009 4:13 PM
I am curious if anyone knows how the trolley systems works in S.F. and N.O. and if there could be a possibility of bring light rail or trams to BK.
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at June 11, 2009 9:58 PM
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