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June 3, 2009

Berkeley Bump Bungle?

The residents of Berkeley Place between 7th and 8th Avenues in Park Slope are beside themselves over the appearance this week of ~~four~~ two brand-spankin'-new speed bumps, with eight bright "BUMP" signs to match. Didn't know there was a speeding problem on that block? Either did the folks who live there. In fact, the person who sent in this photo said she had heard that the bumps were actually supposed to go on Lincoln Place to slow traffic outside the Berkeley Carroll School but that there was some kind of mix up at DOT. Whoops. Update: A reader is claiming that there was no bungle after all and that Berkeley was the rightful recipient of both bumps.

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If one of those signs was in front of my house it'd mysteriously get cut down some night. I did it in Philly.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 3, 2009 10:41 AM

It wouldn't be the first time DOT put up the wrong sign or placed something on the wrong street.

Posted by: SenatorStreet at June 3, 2009 10:47 AM

There are only two-speed bumps, but yes, 8 hideous signs!

Posted by: bklyn1977 at June 3, 2009 10:48 AM

lechacal, I don't think information like that should be shared unless the actual poster volunteers it in the same thread. Just my opinion.

"It wouldn't be the first time DOT put up the wrong sign or placed something on the wrong street."
True, I'm pleasantly surprised they got the actual neighbourhood right; although Park Slope is pretty big - and its borders are expanding daily.

Posted by: Biff Champion at June 3, 2009 10:53 AM

It is my block and I'm wondering if they plan to take that mess down now.

Posted by: 11217 at June 3, 2009 10:56 AM

And thank you, Biff.

Posted by: 11217 at June 3, 2009 10:59 AM

Looking at the photo, I'm wondering if anybody knows why some bicycle lanes are painted Kermit the Frog green and others are simply marked by two white lines? Speaking of white lines, whatever happened to Grandmaster Flash?

Posted by: Biff Champion at June 3, 2009 11:02 AM

11217, no problem. I didn't think you would mind it being out there, but some might. Beautiful block and location, by the way.

Posted by: Biff Champion at June 3, 2009 11:03 AM

I thought the green lanes were a pilot program in specific n'hoods (Brooklyn Heights is the one I remember?)

And the bumps are good, signs are bad, right?

Posted by: new2hood at June 3, 2009 11:03 AM

What's the big deal about speed bumps? Isn't this a good thing? Won't this discourage all the overflow traffic caused by drivers avoiding Union? BTW, folks definitely speed on that street as they try to catch the light @ 8th ave. I've seen many near misses on the corner.

Posted by: Colonel Steve Austin at June 3, 2009 11:04 AM

new2hood, Brooklyn Heights has the green bike lane, yes. I would have much rather preferred just the two white lines, although if the green is proven more effective in actually preventing serious injury, I can't argue against it.

Posted by: Biff Champion at June 3, 2009 11:06 AM

def the wrong street - it goes UP hill there...unreal...

Posted by: 7182713 at June 3, 2009 11:07 AM

Steve Austin,
Don't have a problem withe the bumps but the signs are ugly and unnecessary. Would be much better for safety and aesthetics to paint diagonal stripes on the bumps themselves.

Posted by: etson at June 3, 2009 11:12 AM

They're gonna leave these, right? I mean, nothing wrong with them... unless you like to speed down the street.

Posted by: tybur6 at June 3, 2009 11:14 AM

personally, if you're one of those idiots who goes 80 mph down the street, I'm perfectly happy with you having no warning that the bump is coming up and losing your transmission. I'm pretty sure I'd enjoy watching, actually.

does that make me a bad person?

Posted by: new2hood at June 3, 2009 11:17 AM

I think there's some wild exaggeration that people do 80 mph on this street. That's what I do on 95. :)

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 3, 2009 11:21 AM

The speed humps are a mixed blessing. True they slow down much of the traffic, however, many times an empty truck hits them (quite loudly) in the middle of the night. Or a car doesn't see it and goes over it fast and hits a parked car.

A much better idea (IMHO) and one which DOT has been slow to adopt are the filters on the green light. These filters somewhat block out the green signal at the light. You can't tell that it is green until you are near the corner. From up the block at appears that the light is broken, so cars slow down until they see that it is green.

Posted by: SenatorStreet at June 3, 2009 11:21 AM

I read that speed bumps on narrow streets are actually a hazard and not a help. Some one doesn't see it and if they are doing 40+ they will lose control of their car. Would you want to park on that street? Now put it in front of a school where their are no cars buffering the sidewalks and you have a bunch of kids waiting for a bus, maybe it's covered by snow and someone like daveinBedStuy has already cut down your signs. It's a list of scenarios but you don't even need all of that to fall into place for disaster. You just need one person speeding in front of a school.

Posted by: funstraw at June 3, 2009 11:29 AM

We have a definate speeding problem on my block with people, cars and huge trucks, zooming down the block at dangerous speeds. There are tons of kids that are always around and it seems really dangerous.

I am wodering how does one petition the DOT to put a bump on their block? Has anyone done this?

Posted by: newsouthsloper at June 3, 2009 11:33 AM

Berkeley also has a bike lane - the bumps are going to make alt side days on the bike lane side even more of a slalom hazard than they've been. Some people don't check that the cars they're parking opposite to are going to move & leave very little room to get past. At 12:45 to 1, when alt side ends, it's a real hassle to negotiate that street.

Posted by: Arkady at June 3, 2009 11:35 AM

I still don't understand why the double parking on alt-side of the street days is permitted/accepted. It's dangerous and illegal. Move your car the night before/morning of like everyone else.

Posted by: new2hood at June 3, 2009 11:37 AM

The bumps serve a purpose. Its the signage that's the problem. It makes the street look like an alternate entrance to the Holland tunnel. And given the fact that their placement was a MISTAKE on the DOT's part(by their own admission, the bumps should have been on the next block over, in front of the Berkeley Carroll school), I think DOT should remove them.

Posted by: chuck choi at June 3, 2009 11:41 AM

I have it on good authority that this is NOT the wrong block. This bump was ordered for Berkeley.

Posted by: zinka at June 3, 2009 11:44 AM

It's a courtesy from NYPD. Given that you sometimes can't even find room to double park, the idea of settling in the night before is absurd. I am surprised that "they" are allowing alt side on bike lane sides - fire trucks often have a very hard time getting by when people are parked on the street side of the bike lane.

Posted by: Arkady at June 3, 2009 11:44 AM

NSS,

My SoSlo block ass'n has debated this on and off for years. People always want it, but not in front of their house, because of the noise trucks make when they go over it. We managed to tame our block a bit by getting new "No Through Truck Traffic" signs, bigger and brighter than the old ones, with the big red circle and line through it.

If you want to do it, there is a procedure and it involves getting a percentage of homeowners to sign on and agree. Check DOT website or CB6.

Posted by: slopefarm at June 3, 2009 11:46 AM

Wouldn't you think signs like this wouldn't be allowed in the historic district? Or is that naive of me?

In any case, we have a rather high profile preservationist on the block, so I'll be curious to see what they think about the situation.

Posted by: 11217 at June 3, 2009 11:51 AM

If the City brought back cobblestone streets, it would probably result in a drastic reduction in speeding, and maybe less pothole repair. Not friendly to cyclists, though. The City would also have to hire skilled masons to lay the cobble.

Posted by: vinca at June 3, 2009 12:06 PM

" I still don't understand why the double parking on alt-side of the street days is permitted/accepted. It's dangerous and illegal. Move your car the night before/morning of like everyone else."
Posted by: new2hood at June 3, 2009 11:37 AM"

b/c there is not enough space in the city to move 50% of the cars (from all the neighborhoods that have street cleaning on a particular day) somewhere else.

Posted by: WTBrooklyn at June 3, 2009 12:13 PM

Zinka, if indeed the speed bumps were meant for Berkeley Place, what was the rationale for ordering them? Lincoln between 5th and 6th has them, but there's a school there...

I agree that the bumps are mixed blessing (people do speed up the street, but people speed everywhere), but how can they allow those signs on a side street in a designated historic district?

Posted by: bklyn1977 at June 3, 2009 12:13 PM

Assuming these speed bumps work, they are long overdue, though I agree that they should have been placed elsewhere -- in this case between 8th & Plaza Street, not 7th & 8th. Cars and dollar vans traveling on Flatbush on their way to PPW detour onto 7th and then Berkeley all the time to avoid having to deal with the GAP traffic circle. They then speed through the stop at the corner of Berkeley and Plaza despite the obvious stop sign. I've seen pedestrians hit any number of times at that corner, and near misses virtually every morning.

If this works, it's a great great development.

Posted by: aadayal at June 3, 2009 12:20 PM

If DOT 'perceives' them as necessary for "safety" how could LPC object ??

Posted by: SenatorStreet at June 3, 2009 12:21 PM

11217 and I have discussed many times on this board which blocks we live on.

I am on Berkeley bw 6th and 7th (next block down) and speeding on the block is a problem. People who are presumably using Berkeley to bypass Flatbush and get up to Grand Army Plaza go very fast. The biggest problem is people who see a green light at 7th Ave and speed up the block to try to catch it.

Posted by: lechacal at June 3, 2009 12:22 PM

"The biggest problem is people who see a green light at 7th Ave and speed up the block to try to catch it."

That is why the green light filter works!

Posted by: SenatorStreet at June 3, 2009 12:26 PM

Some one doesn't see it and if they are doing 40+ they will lose control of their car"

Anyone who loses control of their car on slowing down for a speed bump needs to have their license revoked.

And I agree, the signs are horrible and unnecessary. But I bet it's to do with some lawyerly standard in case someone sues the city on "losing control".

I think a better solution to traffic calming is to use "chicanes" and/or "neckdowns" which force you to slow down.

Posted by: cmu at June 3, 2009 12:35 PM

1977, these are to address the problem with vehicles speeding to try to make the light at 8th Ave.

Posted by: zinka at June 3, 2009 1:19 PM

I wish they'd put speed bumps on my street. I am amazed at how little trasffic calming measures there are in NYC, epsecially with such a high accident rate compared to most western countries.

Posted by: dittoburg at June 3, 2009 1:43 PM

lechacal, I realize that. I'm just trying to be cautious. I know you meant absolutely no harm and it was mentioned here before.

Posted by: Biff Champion at June 3, 2009 2:24 PM

This speaks directly to another thread today which discussed the inherent danger in strapping your children into car seats while having half of your body out street side (a man lost his leg in Queens yesterday while strapping in his toddler) because of speeding cars. Speed bumps on these streets has always seemed a blessing to me. If the eye sore in the yellow signs is assuaged by saving some lives and limbs, I'm for it.

Posted by: Nokilissa at June 3, 2009 2:25 PM

Nokilissa - I think it naieve to think that a few yellow signs will actually slow people down. I find that drivers will do what they want regardless of how many signs are posted. Education is more important.

Posted by: SenatorStreet at June 3, 2009 2:32 PM

I agree with Nokilissa. I think speed bumps are a great idea on streets on narrow residential streets.

When I lived in Australia (South Yarra, for any Melbournians in the audience) there were lots of remarkably effective roundabouts in residential areas. It was physically impossible to speed through some of the neighborhood.

Posted by: lechacal at June 3, 2009 2:42 PM

I agree with Nokilissa. I think speed bumps are a great idea on narrow residential streets.

Posted by: lechacal at June 3, 2009 2:42 PM

I've been wondering for some time now, how does one go about getting a study done by DOT to determine what could be done to make an intersection safer? There's one near me where there's a very bad car accident a few times a month (and that's when I'm home, I have no idea how many other times this occurs). By bad I mean one car spun into the corner property, or hits a pedestrian. This is at the corner of an elementary school and it concerns me and my neighbors a lot. There's already stoplights, but so many accidents!

Posted by: honeycut at June 3, 2009 2:55 PM

I think a solution should be a device that measures a car's speed as it barrels down the street and then deploys spike strips from undernearth the pavement with some sort of net to capture the car and prevent it from going out of control and slamming into parked cars or pedestrians.

Of course there would also be an automatic signal transmitted to the police and tow truck disbatch so the offendor can be quickly ticketed and towed.

On my way to the patent office now, so dont anyone think of stealing my idea!

Posted by: newsouthsloper at June 3, 2009 2:58 PM

SPEED BUMPS are stupid. SPEEDING TICKETS are better. Does not anyone find it curious that the NYPD give out few speeding tickets. I do. Is it because the money goes to the state? You freakin bet. The NYPD could sit on my North Slope block and give out thousands of dollars of tickets a day. A DAY. EVERY FREAKIN DAY, but they won't cause the assholes in the mayors office are more inclined to write fucking parking tickets, fucking parking tickets who gives a crap if some assholes meter runs out. SPEEDING KILLS!! Write the MUTLI BILLINONAIRE asshole mayor. He has blood on his hands. The big fat rich jerk that he is. And what the FUCK is FAT MARTY DOING ABOUT IT? NOthing he is to busy eating Shrimp cocktails with that loser from NY HOUSEWIVES while my life is on the line everyday when I walk on my block from the dick wads who drive their shitty cars too fast on my street.

Posted by: billyboomer at June 3, 2009 3:03 PM

Billyboomer - just a little bitter, aren't we?

Posted by: SenatorStreet at June 3, 2009 3:10 PM

It's true, between speeding and running red lights, the cops just look the other way. I was crossing the street last week and a car plowed through a red light. A cop was standing right there, too busy reading a magazine to notice, while a bunch of us pedestrians yelled at the driver.

Posted by: bklyn1977 at June 3, 2009 3:31 PM

WOW, and i thought I was a loon.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 3, 2009 3:31 PM

I have it on authority, my eyes, that there are NO blocks in the historic district of Park Slope, except blocks with a school, that have speed bumps.

The Berkeley-Carrol School has asked for speed bumps on Lincoln between 7th and 8th Ave for years(one block over from Berkeley, coincidentally.) I think it is obvious that if the school was called Lincoln-Carrol school the bumps would be where they belong, on Lincoln.

Those of us who also live on Berkeley and find those BUMP signs unsightly and damaging to the character of the street, should try to get them removed.

Posted by: berkeleyan at June 3, 2009 4:47 PM

"Those of us who also live on Berkeley and find those BUMP signs unsightly and damaging to the character of the street, should try to get them removed."

I'm down. Got a saw?

Posted by: 11217 at June 3, 2009 5:26 PM

Not half a mile from Berkely Place hundreds of thousands of our fellow NYers live on blocks where the color of the street signs and the speed people drive is not exactly a priority.

Some folks really do live on a different planet. Amazing. If you can afford to live on Berkely Place btwn 7th and 8th Ave count your damm blessings and enjoy yourselves.

Posted by: clintonhillbuyer at June 3, 2009 5:31 PM

My favorite street sign in Singapore, Bahrain, and a few other nations formerly under British "supervision": "Humps Ahead".

Posted by: sixyearsandcounting at June 3, 2009 6:49 PM

hah, don't remember that one from the UK itself. The old British term for them is 'sleeping policemen'.

Posted by: etson at June 3, 2009 6:59 PM

It's not the signs that are ugly, it's all the f***ing cars parked on the side of the street.

Imagine how nice that street would look with wider sidewalks and more trees. It's not as if the residents really need cars. There's a subway stop only a block away.

And of course, the cars don't fit in the historic district either. There were no cars when the homes were built, so parking should require some kind of variance.

So my vote, is no signs, but make the street free of automobile traffic as well.

Posted by: carfreenation at June 3, 2009 9:28 PM

Honestly... I looked at that photo and I didn't even notice the BUMP signs. You're all very odd people and sensitive about the strangest things.

Posted by: tybur6 at June 4, 2009 12:03 AM

tybur6 -> time for an eye exam!

Posted by: SenatorStreet at June 4, 2009 10:02 AM

I meant I didn't notice them meaning... they didn't stick out as anything atrocious. Should all traffic signs be banned from street with automobile traffic? Seems like an odd position to take.

I agree with carfreenation above -- if the "historic" look and feel is so important, then no cars (or only old-timey Model A's) should be allowed.

Posted by: tybur6 at June 4, 2009 10:21 AM

I agree with Senator Street that "education is more important". For those amazingly stupid drivers who ignore speed bump signs, having their car's transmission pans ripped open will be a valuable educational experience. Most will not speed over a bump a second time.

I wish we could have speed bumps on my Street, even though it's in an historic district. Apparently we cannot, due to Fire Dept. objections (their trucks use our street on the way out of the fire house around the corner on Rogers Ave.).

Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 4, 2009 10:46 AM

It's not like Brownstoner to get the story so wrong. ;-) The speed humps are no mistake; they are exactly where they should be. I canvassed the people on the block and got their support, then made a request to NYCDOT, who did a survey of traffic speeds and volume and decided that Berkeley Place was a suitable location for speed humps. CB6 thought so too. Berkeley Place has become an alternate to Union Street for motorists heading to Grand Army Plaza. Speeds in excess of 40 MPH were commonplace, and many doofuses would tear up the block to a red light at 8th Avenue. Since the humps were installed, vehicular speeds have been reduced. The idyllic scene you provided in your photo portrays a very nice block but is misleading on the volume of traffic.
Granted, there are too many signs. A single set of signs announcing "Speed humps this block" and (20 MPH) near 7th Avenue should do.
This is all about creating a safe situation and a livable street. Period. Making 8th Avenue and Prospect Park West two-way would give motorists a lot of new options to get to Grand Army Plaza, would eliminate the Union Street bottleneck, and would calm traffic all over. That's the next step we should press NYCDOT to undertake.

Posted by: macairl at June 4, 2009 11:09 AM

Hi Michael,

I live on this block, too. But no one I've spoken with (about half a dozen neighbors) has ever been canvassed by you. In any event, I agree about the auto speeds, but is there anything we can get DOT to do about the visual assault of the 8 yellow signs? Can you please look into this, since you initiated this action?

The bumps, by the way, aren't going to do anything about the volume of traffic. It's just going to slow things down. It also has created some unforeseen negative effects for some of our neighbors (john and Midge), who have to listen to trucks go over the hump all day long. Thanks.

Posted by: chuck choi at June 4, 2009 12:16 PM

To Chuck Choi, I will be glad to contact NYCDOT about all those signs.

Posted by: macairl at June 4, 2009 1:11 PM

Thanks, Michael!

Posted by: chuck choi at June 4, 2009 1:20 PM

I also live on this block of berkeley . i'm happy that someone here is paying attention to our block, but also know no one who was canvassed about whether speed bumps were a good or bad idea, and what the implications were....i think when there is a change like this there needs to be some communication with residents. this seems to have happened with just a few people's knowledge.

i assume they are going to paint something on the bumps to make them more visible, but at this point cars don't see the first bump at all, and don't slow down until the second bump, then speed up noticeably after the second bump to make the light at 8th.

Posted by: kwar228 at June 6, 2009 11:27 AM

I find it disingenuous that our neighbor says he "canvassed' his neighbors--he did not canvas me or anyone who I know, which is more than half of the residents of the houses, and none of the folks in the condos. Anyone can say they "canvassed." He did not send around a petition, and might I add, a ballot so that we could nominate him to be our "block representative."

The noise of scraping (especially the trucks) on those bumps is horrible, the signs are incompatable with the historic character of our street, and if he used his clout with DOT to get bumps where we have no school (a first in Park Slope,) or the false notion that he is our block representative and we were 'canvassed," he can use the same clout to have it all removed.

Many streets around here function as a thoroughfares--to name just one--have you ever tried going down beautiful Third Street toward the park at rush hour?

There is one street that doesn't not have a school (it may have a church) that has bumps but no signs, 8th st between 5th and 6th. Only the bumps are painted, with signage on them and the road.

Posted by: berkeleyan at June 9, 2009 3:59 PM

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June 3, 2009

Berkeley Bump Bungle?

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