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May 20, 2009
LPC Sends Arby's Back to the Prep Station
"It might be a square peg in a round hole, but there must be a solution that evokes it better," said Landmarks Preservation Chairman Robert Tierney at yesterday's hearing on Arby's proposed design for the interior landmarked space at 374 Fulton Street that used to house the historic Gage & Tollner restaurant. A majority (six) of the LPC commissioners voted to send the Arby's team back to the drawing board, taking particular exception to their plans for a light-colored floor and the size and structure of the booths and ordering counter; in addition, the commissioners didn't care for the proposed removal of a portion of the mirrored arcade and the addition of certain illuminated signs. Clearly the franchisee who wants to make this work is going to have to break further away from the standard Arby's aesthetic and "look at something more customized," in the words of Commissioner Roberta Washington.
Arby's Planning to Take Gage & Tollner Space [Brownstoner]
Rumor: Fast Food for Gage & Tollner Space [Brownstoner]
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Comments
Lets all admit it already! The glory days of the historic Gage & Tollner restaurant are long gone and never coming back because it's in the wrong location. The whole idea of TGI Friday's and now Arby's!, in this space makes me sick. What's next? McDonald's?! I wish Landmark would let the period detail move to a new restaurant location so it can be appreciated, not wasted in the Fulton Mall.
Posted by: Rick at May 20, 2009 9:22 AM
mindboggling that some with Arby's franchise would ever step into this minefield. What were they thinking?
With the increased residential population downtown and new hotels being built nearby, I do think a restaurant respectful of the landmark status could do fine there.
Posted by: Petebklyn at May 20, 2009 9:44 AM
Fulton Street is really an urban version of Dogpatch, USA.
Having Manhattan so close is both a blessing and a curse.
Multi-million-dollar granny palaces is the blessing (sort of) and Fulton mall is the curse.
Posted by: sam at May 20, 2009 9:57 AM
Pete is correct - as I said when this was announced - the Francisee (and Franchisor for allowing it) are MORONs - there are tons of available space in the immediate vicinity, the only thing renting this space gets you is added expense, aggravation and publicity - (all bad).
No matter how good the sandwich (not very) I guarantee this location (if ever opened) will FAIL....anyone whose judgment is so off from reality will be killed in the marketplace.....
Posted by: fsrg at May 20, 2009 9:58 AM
sam and fsrq, awesome points.
Posted by: infinitejester at May 20, 2009 10:00 AM
"With the increased residential population downtown and new hotels being built nearby"
That will be empty for the foreseeable future...
Landmark Committees are nothing but Snobby elitist Assheads and should be abolished.
The What (increased residential population, LMMFAO!)
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at May 20, 2009 10:11 AM
"Landmark Committees are nothing but Snobby elitist Assheads and should be abolished."
If they prevent one Horror Show Fedders building or any other crappy renovation on any block then they are worth it.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 20, 2009 10:15 AM
"If they prevent one Horror Show Fedders building or any other crappy renovation on any block then they are worth it."
Eh Dave would the Toren and Avalon qualify as "Horror Show Fedders building", huh Dumbass!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at May 20, 2009 10:24 AM
You know what I mean, dumbass.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 20, 2009 10:30 AM
remember the crab soup and the steak au poivre at Gage & Tollner's?
and the waiters in their Parisian-style white aprons lighting the gas chandeliers at dusk?
what a tragic loss.
pathetic.
snobs everywhere feel the pain.
Posted by: sam at May 20, 2009 10:30 AM
You know what I mean, dumbass.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 20, 2009 10:30 AM
No I don't Douchebag!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at May 20, 2009 10:32 AM
would the Toren and Avalon qualify as "Horror Show Fedders building
Can't speak for DIBS, but IMO they're slightly better than that--still crap though.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at May 20, 2009 10:32 AM
People should keep in mind that Arby's problems with the LPC are MAINLY because the G&T building is an INTERIOR, as well as an exterior landmark. This is fairly unusual and doesn't apply to any residential property--only spaces open to the public can be so designated.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at May 20, 2009 10:37 AM
what does a little old brownstone like Gage and Tollner's have to do with monstrosities such as the Toren and Avalon?
I believe that the Gage and Tollner building and interior will survive thanks to their landmark status and some day, some day, will re-open as a decent restaurant. Things go full-circle sometimes. Landmarking keeps bits of our heritage from disappearing during the down-cycle.
If that is elitist and snobby, so be it.
Posted by: sam at May 20, 2009 10:41 AM
would everybody be happier if Checkers opened up here?
Posted by: Jimmy Legs at May 20, 2009 10:50 AM
"You know what I mean, dumbass."
Can we please stop with all the nasty name-calling? Douchebags!
Posted by: GHB at May 20, 2009 10:51 AM
" believe that the Gage and Tollner building and interior will survive thanks to their landmark status and some day, some day, will re-open as a decent restaurant. "
Why not a Bank?? It used to be a Bank Papular there in the 80's so why not one now??
The rents is 30k a F**** month! How in the hell someone makes a profit there?????
The What
Someday this war is gonna end....
Posted by: Return of The What at May 20, 2009 10:51 AM
They won't make a profit, What, just like that Pickle place in BH and those ridiculous froyo places in Park Slope paying $14k for 1,000 sq. ft.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 20, 2009 10:56 AM
someone needs to get the balls and open up and old fashion whorehouse for a change. stuff like that thrives in bad economies. we dont need anymore food or clothing establishments. it's all about the flesh and sin these days!
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at May 20, 2009 10:58 AM
what, I don't think this building ever housed a banco popular, or any bank. I used to go to Gage and Tollner's in the eighties, that was its heyday. Then they rebuilt the kitchen and revised the menu to be more seafood oriented in like around 1996, that was the second heyday. It really had an interesting menu, sort of New Orleans inspired. Excellent Gumbo and crawfish and hush puppies! A loss for Brooklyn. But other interesting places opened up on Smith Street and Fifth Avenue and other places, so time marches on.
Posted by: sam at May 20, 2009 11:00 AM
"They won't make a profit...." All the more reason for LPC to take a hard look at what Arby's is proposing. There is no value in allowing one of the few interior landmarks in the city to be damaged for nine months of horsey sauce.
Posted by: g man at May 20, 2009 11:00 AM
Rob - get with the times....whorehouses are so 20th century - these days the market is covered by Craigslist hookers working out of unsold condo apartments.....
Posted by: fsrg at May 20, 2009 11:07 AM
You're all missing the point - where can I get some damn potato cakes??
Posted by: infinitejester at May 20, 2009 11:11 AM
"what, I don't think this building ever housed a banco popular, or any bank."
I knew at lease one Retarded Asshead would say that! I Banked at this location in 1981 and I tried to get a Student Loan here also. Sam ether your memory is bad or you are a POSER! It's not what you "think" Sam!!!!
"Then they rebuilt the kitchen and revised the menu to be more seafood oriented in like around 1996, that was the second heyday."
That heyday was short lived. Remember everyone I was born here...
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at May 20, 2009 11:12 AM
"what, I don't think this building ever housed a banco popular, or any bank."
I knew at lease one Retarded Asshead would say that! I Banked at this location in 1981 and I tried to get a Student Loan here also. Sam ether your memory is bad or you are a POSER! It's not what you "think" Sam!!!!
"Then they rebuilt the kitchen and revised the menu to be more seafood oriented in like around 1996, that was the second heyday."
That heyday was short lived. Remember everyone I was born here...
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at May 20, 2009 11:12 AM
perfect spot for a soul food joint, or a steakhouse, or, oh, gage & TOLLNER! : )
Posted by: bklynite at May 20, 2009 11:12 AM
you're totally off your rocker What. Banco Popular was on the corner.
Gage and Tollner was run for decades and decades from b4 you were born -family run-and they lived upstairs.
They sold but still operated under that name under couple different owners until TGIF took over the space.
Posted by: Petebklyn at May 20, 2009 11:19 AM
Gage and Tollner's began when Charles Gage opened an "eating house" at 303 Fulton Street, Brooklyn, in 1879. In 1880, Eugene Tollner joined him and the restaurant became known as Gage and Tollner's in 1882. The restaurant moved to 372-374 Fulton Street in 1892. [2]
It attracted customers like Diamond Jim Brady, Jimmy Durante and Mae West. In the 1980s it was bought by Peter Aschkenasy who brought in famed chef Edna Lewis. She helped "transform" the restaurant by adding her famed Southern cuisine, such as cornbread, catfish and a "legendary she-crab soup." [3] Joseph Chirico, who owned the restaurant since 1995, made the hard decision to close the restaurant since "the business was dragging every day."
Shortly after it closed, T.G.I. Friday's moved in. [4] T.G.I. Friday's vacated the space in 2007 and the space currently is unoccupied. As of March 2009, an Arby's franchise is looking to move in, pending approval by the New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission. [5]
Posted by: BH76 at May 20, 2009 11:22 AM
What PWNED yet again. Who's the poseur now????
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 20, 2009 11:32 AM
BH76 is right What, the reason the restaurant interior is so perfectly preserved is because it was always a restaurant -ever since the gaslight days. That's why it was landmarked, it is very rare.
I do remember the Banco Popular nearby now that you mentioned it. But no, this was always Gage and Tollner until TGIF's took over.
Posted by: sam at May 20, 2009 11:35 AM
I also don't see why Arby's would go to the trouble. There are other locations available within shouting distance of G&T. A franchise's identity is tied to their branding and sense of familiarity, through their architecture and logos, as well as their food, and the wonderful charm of G&T's authentic high Victorian interior seems to be like lipstick on a pig. Given that, I was surprised that TGIF didn't work there, as their decor was a knock off and dumbing down of the same Victorian ambiance.
I would really like to see something better there, but I wouldn't want the building to end up empty for years, deteriorating, either. Perhaps Arby's could be a stop gap, until something better is a surety. I hope the LPC keeps their feet to the fire in keeping up standards, and doesn't let them change or remove that which is important to the original interior. I'm glad the LPC is on it, and they, as an entity, are extremely important to this city. Slowly, but surely, they are losing the "elitist" label. I know Roberta Washington, and she is hardly an elitist. Having standards is not elitist.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at May 20, 2009 11:37 AM
"ou're totally off your rocker What. Banco Popular was on the corner."
Naw it was next door, just got confirmation from a old friend. I did too much weed back then.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: Return of The What at May 20, 2009 11:38 AM
The What - seriously just stop a second........
You post here everyday - so clearly you find something interesting (if not intellegent) about the comments section (and the commenters)
and yet you INSIST on calling people names and otherwise being an a$$ - for example you said regarding the Banco Popular/G&T thing:
"I knew at lease one Retarded Asshead would say that! I Banked at this location in 1981 and I tried to get a Student Loan here also. Sam ether your memory is bad or you are a POSER! It's not what you "think" Sam!!!"
So in one paragraph you impled that many people here are retarted, Assheads (whatever that is) and you implied that Sam is a "Poser" (whatever that means)
YET YOU WERE TOTALLY 100% WRONG! - so rather then offering a legitimate apology or something similar - your only response is -
"Naw it was next door, just got confirmation from a old friend. I did too much weed back then. "
Now seriously, I know you have a schtick to uphold but come on dude, if you want to be a part of the club (and your constant posting indicates you badly do) - then once in awhile try to just tone down the rhetoric and insults.
Posted by: fsrg at May 20, 2009 11:50 AM
I agree with bklynite.I have been disappointed and angered for decades by the squandering of Brooklyn's once elegant downtown shopping and entertainment center. But the times do seem to be changing.Those huge apartment buildings on Schermerhorn and Bridge St. will fill up. The new hotels too.The crowds on Fulton look to me to be more and more diverse.The new upscale Brooklyn Fare market on once desolate Schermerhorn seems to be doing well with a growing clientele.
I always thought Lugar's should have opened a downtown outpost there but now with Morton's its too late. Quality restaurants have been pulling people to the furthest reaches of Red Hook, Vinegar Hill, Bed Sty, East Williamsburg etc.I have no doubt that a new, quality Gage & Tollner would be a success today.
Posted by: crafty at May 20, 2009 11:50 AM
fsrq, by his own admission the What has good days and bad days. Even he and I are in agreement some days.
What, have some Skittles.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 20, 2009 11:54 AM
I really do not mind being called an asshat by the what.
I have been called worse, especially by that bi-polar Park Slope zipcode who seems to have mercifully disappeared.
Posted by: sam at May 20, 2009 12:02 PM
"YET YOU WERE TOTALLY 100% WRONG! - so rather then offering a legitimate apology or something similar - your only response is -''
WHOA!!!!! How many I have been spot on about????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Apology???!!! Wait for it! Here it comes.... Oh hell no sorry.
"I know you have a schtick to uphold but come on dude, if you want to be a part of the club (and your constant posting indicates you badly do) - then once in awhile try to just tone down the rhetoric and insults."
Tried that and the results was the same.
Hw about these two things: The world wide collapse coming this fall and the newly built Condos competing for renters collapsing the rental market!!!!
Suck these things down Boys and get back to me....
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at May 20, 2009 12:04 PM
I tried, I'll just go back to skipping his posts - it easier
Posted by: fsrg at May 20, 2009 12:14 PM
My kingdom for an "Ignore This Poster" button.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at May 20, 2009 12:32 PM
THis is all insane. Couldn't any decent restaurant open up here? Walter Crackfoods for example? It would be perfect. Lawyers for lunch and Brooklyn Heights residents for dinner. It is in walking distance of Brooklyn Heights, right?
Posted by: mopar at May 20, 2009 4:31 PM
Or, you know, the city could woo some prominent chef like they did the Craft and Shake Shack people to various park locations.
Posted by: mopar at May 20, 2009 4:33 PM
One of the big drawbacks of Gage and Tollner was that you could not drive up to it. It was in a freakin' pedestrian mall and cabs had no idea where to drop you off. When you finally made it nearby you had to walk, dressed nicely for a lovely dinner, through the throngs of teenage hip-hoppers ogling and making comments about white women being ho's etc etc. it was uncomfortable.
Posted by: mcKenzie at May 20, 2009 7:32 PM
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