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May 5, 2009

Last Week's Biggest Sales

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We're pretty sure this is the first time in the year+ we've been doing the biggest sales roundup that any of the properties are below the million mark.

1. CLINTON HILL $1,042,500
42 Downing Street GMAP (left)
This 2-family hit the market last September, asking $1,525,000, according to StreetEasy. The price was reduced several times, and the last ask was $1,225,000. According to its listing, it's a "handsome four story 18’ brownstone, filled with original detail and character. An opportunity for someone to restore this historic home." Entered into contract on 2/10/09; closed on 4/22/09; deed recorded on 4/30/09.

2. WINDSOR TERRACE $974,000
35 East 3rd Street GMAP (right)
This 1,456-sf, single-family house hit the market in October, listed at $1,100,000, according to StreetEasy. The price was reduced to $999,000 within a couple weeks. Listing said: "Beautiful 1899 frame house is located on quiet, tree-lined street and ready to move in. This charming 2-story house with finished basement offers easy and comfortable living." Entered into contract on 1/18/09; closed on 3/19/09; deed recorded on 5/1/09.

3. SHEEPSHEAD BAY $955,000
1230 Avenue V GMAP
This is a 2,400-sf, two-family brick house, according to Property Shark. Entered into contract on 9/16/08; closed on 4/23/09; deed recorded on 4/30/09.

4. SOUTH SLOPE $950,000
270 11th Street GMAP
When this 2,068 -sf, three-family was an Open House Pick last October, it was asking $1,125,000. Entered into contract on 12/22/08; closed on 4/24/09; deed recorded on 4/30/09.

5. BENSONHURST $925,000
1652 80th Street GMAP
A 3,280-sf, four-family, according to Property Shark. Entered into contract on 1/2/09; closed on 3/30/09; deed recorded on 5/1/09.

Photos from Property Shark.

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Comments

1. CLINTON HILL $1,042,500
42 Downing Street GMAP (left)

Some retard paid a million for Downing Street???!!! Good luck with that...

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at May 5, 2009 11:36 AM

"We're pretty sure this is the first time in the year+ we've been doing the biggest sales roundup that any of the properties are below the million mark."

And it won't be the last!

Posted by: bayridgegirl at May 5, 2009 11:47 AM

soon, we'll see the 900k mark cracked frequently

Posted by: more4less at May 5, 2009 11:54 AM

Where are they hiding that fourth story on the downing street house? A storage facility in jersey?

Posted by: Rookie at May 5, 2009 11:59 AM

Rookie, it's probably a pitched roof on 4th flr - ie front half of flr is sloped (ie basically storage / closet area) and back half is normal height with windows

Posted by: more4less at May 5, 2009 12:03 PM

And now you know the REST of the story.

Posted by: Biff Champion at May 5, 2009 12:08 PM

That South Slope started out at 1.35 when it first hit the market. There are houses on that block, same size, that sold for that range, during the peak. So we're talking 400K off initial ask (and arguably, comps), or 30%. And this with a December contract date, very early into the crisis. This is why I think 50% off peak is likely when all is said and done.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at May 5, 2009 12:13 PM

The price on the Avenue V house is phenomenally high. Anyone have any idea why? I sold a fully renovated house close to that one recently for a lot less than that after trying to sell it on and off for some time. Either there is gold in the basement or perhaps its one of those mortgage fraud schemes - I am just having trouble imagining that house being worth much more than $600,000 - $700,000. And no, it's not in the coveted gravesend area.

Posted by: CuriousGeorge at May 5, 2009 12:14 PM

1. Surprised the WT house went for as much as it did.
2. Re 11th Street--I'm sure you're correct about the comps on that block, Miss Muffett, but (as I think you may have noted on the HOTD thread at the time), this house looked to be in pretty lousy shape. Question is whether or not that was true of the peak comps.

Posted by: basementalist at May 5, 2009 12:38 PM

I seriously don't get these prices.

And all of you that think these prices are generally in the ballpark, you must already own -- and you're either trying to justify the crazy price you paid or watching the $$ signs dance in your head.

You can give me the "It's NYC, what do you expect" argument until you're 'effing dead, a million dollars for any of these should give one "great pause" -- and perhaps even more. It takes two to tango, and the buyer half of this equation is high on meth.

Posted by: tybur6 at May 5, 2009 12:46 PM

> "Surprised the WT house went for as much as it did."

No kidding. Such a homely house and such a lousy location.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at May 5, 2009 12:48 PM

Yes, it takes 2 to tango, as it always has. Buyer and seller. Any other observations?

Posted by: FatLenny at May 5, 2009 12:51 PM

WT prices seem to be holding their own which is interesting Everytime one of us comments on a high price for a WT house someone always retorts with proof of a recent sale into the million and over mark..

sorry but that 11th street house is lucky they got that much -it neeeds so much work!

Posted by: gemini10 at May 5, 2009 12:53 PM

FatLenny... I'm suggesting that perhaps the *buyer* half of the equation (or past buyers, current owners) should stop validating these absurd prices.

Posted by: tybur6 at May 5, 2009 12:54 PM

tybur6: these things don't happen overnight. For many reasons they happen very slowly. Prices are falling and will continue to do so for some time. Just because there is a sale at some kind of discount to peak doesn't mean we can all say "ah ha, that's where the market was headed! Back about your business!" Let it keep developing. Pull up an armchair and be patient.

Something I am noticing: inventory remains low, as we have discussed at length. I think there is a lot of shadow inventory waiting for things to pick up before going on the market. As I have said many times I think these sellers will kick themselves for not just ripping off the band-aid and selling at whatever price they can get now. The crucial spring selling season will be over very soon, and in my view the low inventory has helped keep somewhat of a bottom on prices during that time (some people are just going to buy for whatever reason, and this season their options have been limited). Meanwhile, all of the people who have been holding out for a better market before selling are missing the spring selling season, and I think many of them are going to end up listing later this year. The result? As predicted, those who are biting the bullet and selling now are capturing some vestiges of the bubble pricing, while those who are waiting for things to get better will end up listing as a wave of inventory hits the market - and all of this is going to happen after the spring selling season when buyers for family-sized properties who can time their moves are in the market. Inventory is going up, and buyers are going to get more scarce.

Sellers, you can either keep ignoring me or start listening to me. I think my track record is pretty damn good.

Posted by: lechacal at May 5, 2009 12:58 PM

> "I think my track record is pretty damn good."

Not to mention your track suit.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at May 5, 2009 1:04 PM

"Shadow Inventory" The league of shadows is holding back all the 500k brownstones in Park Slope to release all at once and damn Gotham to hell!!!!

Just a tad wishfull?

Posted by: Adam Dahill at May 5, 2009 1:10 PM

miss muffett: really? curious to know which houses you're talking about. because we bought a slightly larger place in a similar condition and comparable neighborhood pretty close to the top of the market. we looked at similar places in the south slope at the time, and found the pricing to be basically comparable. and we paid far less than $1.35. more than $950K, but in the range of 5-10% more. of course, you could still be right about where we're headed, blah blah blah.

Posted by: i disagree at May 5, 2009 1:11 PM

And a note to brokers, as a follow-up to my 12:58 post: If you have not had a very frank conversation with your seller clients about the importance of capturing this spring's selling season while inventory is still low - even if that means just biting the bullet and accepting the current best offer - then in my humble opinion you are doing your clients a great disservice.

Posted by: lechacal at May 5, 2009 1:12 PM

Adam, those are all your words, not mine. Focus on what I am actually saying. I am pretty confident that inventory is going to increase meaningfully this year and that many people who are holding out for the market to improve will have missed the most important selling season for family-sized properties by the time they list. Are you going to come out and say you think this is wrong or are you going to try to put some rather melodramatic words in my mouth and hope they stick?

Posted by: lechacal at May 5, 2009 1:16 PM

I'm with Lechacal. Only diff is I'm going to low-ball sellers now if I see something of interest. This mkt is going down, down, down,.... I expect to get smacked around when I try to sell my current place

Posted by: more4less at May 5, 2009 1:22 PM

I happen to know buyers on 11th Street who paid a lot for house that was same size/similar condition though I hate to give away too many specifics on this blog since I'm sensitive to privacy - rather, I would advise people interested in comps to hunt around the publicly available sources (i.e. Property Shark) and you will find examples of what I'm talking about. As for the condition of this 11th Street house, I saw it and it was actually in decent shape. Our main objection was that, in the backyard, you could see the rather ugly back of the neighbor's house, but as others pointed out to me on original HOTD thread, that's something that can happen on any block. And houses on the opposite side of 11st Street have to face that ugly project-looking building. Some people are bothered by such things more than others, but my point is that these types of neighorhood issues affect many houses on that block, and yet there were homes that sold for far more at peak. And lechacal, as usual, is absolutely correct about the inventory issues. Sellers holding out for better days will have to wait a very long time and those who don't have that luxury will regret not ripping the band-aid much sooner.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at May 5, 2009 1:27 PM

Lech - You have a point about the spring selling season and inventory. It's LOW! and agreed if someone gives you a pretty decent offer to accept that offer and move on. I also agree the market will go down a bit more as well - how much and for how long - that I have no clue about.

- The thing I disagree with you about is this onslaught of great beauties coming on the market in Sept/Oct you speak of. Sellers who have to sell are selling now.
I think you have to give some credit to many sellers that we actually know what's happening in the market day to day and I think if you have to sell - you are out now selling and not sitting in your parlour sipping tea saying "darling, the market will get better this fall and that's when we can list our 3 story shanty for 1.5mil"

Posted by: gemini10 at May 5, 2009 1:28 PM

To back lechacal up further: a broker we've been working with basically predicted the same thing - that inventory will start to rise dramatically (in the slope no less) at the end of this year. I found it interesting he would admit this but I suppose in this market, he wants to establish credibility with us (we are attractive buyers since we already sold), so we are more likely to buy from him. He has certainly earned points in our book by his honest assessment of the situation.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at May 5, 2009 1:37 PM

Gemini: As support for my views I would turn to a recent post by benson:

"I've seen a number of folks pull there units off the market, rather than accept a lower price. With the lower inventory, the prices have held up so far. To my great surprise, folks have been able to pull back inventory even in the face of the tough economy. For instance, my downstairs neighbor was laid off, and put his unit up. I thought he was ripe for lowering his price. He eventually found another job, which pays less. They are thinking of downsizing, and so still have their unit on the market. The pressure is off them, however, to sell asap."

Certainly there are sellers who have to sell and are selling now, but I do think there is a sizeable (and growing) number of properties where the owner plans to sell but is not listing (yet) because of a hope that current market conditions are temporary - the "shadow inventory" if you will. Many or most of these properties will eventually be listed. Some will simply not list at all for whatever reason.

Posted by: lechacal at May 5, 2009 1:39 PM

wheres the resident "Ghetto Money Manager"?

Posted by: cornerbodega at May 5, 2009 1:45 PM

or sebb for that matter? I think my comments on 11th Street back in October made Sebb blow steam out of his ears (or the blog-post equivalent). I don't like to gloat, but as a patient buyer-in-waiting, it is gratifying to see the pudding starting to provide some real proof of the growing declines.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at May 5, 2009 1:55 PM

Lechacal, go do your thing at the vermeil. get the developer to accept 500 sq ft

Posted by: more4less at May 5, 2009 2:19 PM

m4l - I think I threw Vermeil out there as an example of something that would be very ambitious (if it is possible at all, which I have absolutely no idea). As I said I would stick to a nice n' easy 3 or 4 unit condo conversion.

Posted by: lechacal at May 5, 2009 2:25 PM

Lechacal, vermeil has those huge family size units. are those easy 3-4 unit conversions big family size units?

Posted by: more4less at May 5, 2009 2:51 PM

yes

Posted by: lechacal at May 5, 2009 3:00 PM

Ghetto money managers are not interested in most slimy bodega employees.

And guess what, I'm sinking another $20,000+ this week into the facade of that money pit asset I bought in the ghetto. Money you can only dream of accumulationg as a DP.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 5, 2009 3:05 PM

dibs, what's a dp?

Posted by: lechacal at May 5, 2009 3:29 PM

I'm just saying that the market is what is. There's an ask and a bid. It reflects the present situation and is forward-looking. Making the claim with anecdotal evidence that there's shadow inventory that is not reflected in today's prices is, well, not exactly scientific.

There's already an enormous glut of condo inventory, and condos are thus getting killed. There is not a glut brownstones in good neighborhoods. If the stock market remains positive (I don't happen to think it will), then I don't think you're going to see that much more downward pressure on brownstones.

Of course, if things fall apart again, all bets are off.

Posted by: FatLenny at May 5, 2009 3:41 PM

down payment. sorry.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 5, 2009 3:50 PM

18' w/ aerodynamic roof on non-brown-street-sign Downing? This is how you get got. Out in Brooklyn late market flashing all of your UWS rocks.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at May 5, 2009 3:50 PM

"Are you going to come out and say you think this is wrong or are you going to try to put some rather melodramatic words in my mouth and hope they stick?"

Medic!!! Man down in Jersey!!!

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at May 5, 2009 3:58 PM

"We're pretty sure this is the first time in the year+ we've been doing the biggest sales roundup that any of the properties are below the million mark."

DOWN GOES BROOKLYN!!! DOWN GOES BROOKLYN!!!

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at May 5, 2009 4:00 PM

no matter how cheap the prices here - per Ms Muff's comment they other day - (" who would want to live on Sackett St") -
doubt she would even drive down these blocks.
Surprised the $2m sale at 40 2nd Place that was in sunday's NYTimes list of sales didn't show up.
Major price reduction on that from initial aggressive pricing - the less than 16' wide house did sell for $657 sq ft.

Posted by: Petebklyn at May 5, 2009 5:03 PM

Jez- I make a snarky comment once in a blue moon and get called out on it. Am I allowed to make any jokes or am I only good for mortgage advice? :) I thought it was a rather funny comment but hey I'm a Louis CK fan.

I'm sorry I don't have all day to look for responses to my comments BHO.

Back to the topic, I think you are wrong. It's nothing personal I just don't think there is a glut of pent up brownstone owners holding out to sell. Most of the owners that I have dealt with bought these homes to raise families and they are not leaving. A lot have a ton of equity and come from all walks of life. Very few are in finance which surprised me at first. A lot of Media/publishing/arts types.

For the record I don't own a brownstone and would love an opportunity to buy one if they came down in price.

Established neighborhoods will hold.

Posted by: Adam Dahill at May 5, 2009 5:18 PM

"And guess what, I'm sinking another $20,000+ this week into the facade of that money pit asset I bought in the ghetto. Money you can only dream of accumulationg as a DP." ~dibs

We'd expect nothing less from an idiot like you! Pump in more money to an asset thats falling off a cliff. In any case, why aren't you cheerleading the LWBS anymore? LOL @ the Ghetto Money Manager!!!!!!!!

Posted by: cornerbodega at May 5, 2009 5:43 PM

"Established neighborhoods will hold."

Famous last words...

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at May 5, 2009 6:00 PM

there should be a lot of houses coming up because
-nyc salaries of brownstoners are down
-many houses depend on a high rent constant stream
-many of those houses were investment purchases and they will be treated as such (fast sell)

brace yourself for the 500K brownstone!

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at May 5, 2009 6:35 PM

"I'm sorry I don't have all day to look for responses to my comments BHO."

Ahhh...but somehow you knew I was referring to one of those comments. I believe you.

"Most of the owners that I have dealt with bought these homes to raise families and they are not leaving."

That's what you think. Marriage has a 50% success rate. The job market is nationwide.

"A lot have a ton of equity..."

All cash near the peak still gets burned in this once-in-a-lifetime boom/bust.

"...and come from all walks of life. Very few are in finance which surprised me at first. A lot of Media/publishing/arts types."

All supported by wall street (lower case pun intended) money in this city.

"For the record I don't own a brownstone and would love an opportunity to buy one if they came down in price."

Not a matter of if. They're already down an average of 10% and falling.

"Established neighborhoods will hold."

...bags.

"many of those houses were investment purchases"

You hot damn right they were. Just to raise family my ass. RE only goes up.

"brace yourself for the 500K brownstone!"

Bam! Too late. They're already here (Bed Stuy, Bushwick, Crown Heights, etc.).

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at May 5, 2009 9:23 PM

the last vestige of the delusional brooklyn real estate "cheerleader" = adam

Posted by: cornerbodega at May 5, 2009 10:11 PM

Adam - I'm increasingly seeing examples of, yes, brownstones in prime hoods having to take big price cuts before getting any interest. The pattern, unfortunately for the sellers/brokers, is to try to modest price cut first in hopes that dipping their toes in lower price will do the trick. It does not, and they have to cut again. This is leading to significant cuts that, gradually, are resetting comps. Maybe brownstones on prime blocks will not get slaughtered the way new construction condos will, but to say they will "hold" is just false - there's already too much evidence to the contrary.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at May 5, 2009 10:34 PM

Accept highest bid now or accept less later. The mirror to 'buy now or be priced out later'.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at May 6, 2009 10:45 AM

Holding Breath.

Posted by: Adam Dahill at May 6, 2009 10:53 AM

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May 5, 2009

Last Week's Biggest Sales

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