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May 28, 2009

House of the Day: 859 St. Marks Avenue

This 7,000-square-foot one-family limestone house at 859 St. Marks Avenue in Crown Heights has some pretty darn impressive old-school credentials but is gonna take a lotta love to get it back into shape from the looks of things. Which might explain the slide in its price from $1,500,000 when it was first listed last June to its current price of $859,000 (with a couple of stops at $1,400,000 and $1,200,000 along the way.) Someone's going to have to fall in love at some point—the question is at what price. And if that person has kids, he's in luck: The Children's Museum is right across the street.
859 St. Marks Avenue [MM Management] GMAP P*Shark

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Comments

WOW....$122 psf.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 28, 2009 1:21 PM

Wrong headline.

Posted by: East New York at May 28, 2009 1:21 PM

"Someone's going to have to fall in love at some point—the question is at what price."

Okay, I'm falling in love!
Anyone seen this house? Please tell all. Mechanicals? Comps?

Posted by: bayridgegirl at May 28, 2009 1:22 PM

Haven't been inside, but I live close by. It's among a great stretch of Crown Heights residential architecture.

Posted by: East New York at May 28, 2009 1:23 PM

This thing (859 St. Marks; don't know about 79 Carroll) already been discussed (with a Montrose Morris report!):

http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2008/06/open_house_pick_191.php

http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2009/01/open_house_pick_232.php

There are lots of other more interesting things to talk about -- how about this -- 325 Clinton Street in Cobble Hill -- 7,600 sq. ft., less than $2 million, probably rent controlled/stabilized tenants... http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=776556&rentalperiod=&SearchType=houses&Region=NYC

Posted by: aishling at May 28, 2009 1:24 PM

this is a pretty sick house. i would wager it goes for close to 800...not bad...not bad...

how much work does it really need?

Posted by: bedstuyhoya at May 28, 2009 1:26 PM

aishling, there has to be something wrong w/ that 325 clinton house. if not, that's a f'ing steal

Posted by: more4less at May 28, 2009 1:26 PM

Will a Brownstone look nice at 15% interest rate??????!!!!!!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at May 28, 2009 1:29 PM

if this drops to 700k, would have to make an offer

Posted by: more4less at May 28, 2009 1:31 PM

Wow!

Posted by: lechacal at May 28, 2009 1:33 PM

"if this drops to 700k, would have to make an offer"

If this drops to 700k, you and I will go into a bidding war!

Posted by: bayridgegirl at May 28, 2009 1:34 PM

I will have already signed a contract at $725k.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 28, 2009 1:35 PM

I've been to the Children's museum a couple of times and the area doesn't seem bad at all.

This is really amazing. Would have to look at it closely, serious inspections, etc., but unless I'm missing something this is the first real value listing I have seen featured on this site.

Posted by: lechacal at May 28, 2009 1:36 PM

This listing is gone shortly based on exposure today on Brownstoner. Mark my words.

Posted by: lechacal at May 28, 2009 1:37 PM

Who wants to go halvsies with me?

Posted by: dirty_hipster at May 28, 2009 1:38 PM

To Mr. What:

15% interest rates? What, walk me through your logic? I think that folks are currently being duped into thinking that recession is coming to an end, and it is now going time to hold riskier assets. We will probably hit another leg down, where folks will again rush to the relative safely of US Treasuries.

In the current environment, interest rates are rising because folks think they are better off holding equities, commodities, and other risky assets. Over the medium term, it I think that folks will drive rates downward by seeking out less risky assets. Mortgage rates at 15%...unless we see some for of hyper inflation (not likely given fundamentals), it probably won't happen..

Now if you said something closer to 7-8% longer term, I would have to agree.

Again....just curious to see your thought process. I have a couple free minutes to kill today.

Posted by: bedstuyhoya at May 28, 2009 1:38 PM

I just read the Open House Thread that had this house.

Montrose,are you here...hello,
In that post you mentioned that you might go to the Open House back in June of last year. Did you go? What's the house like? Especially curious about the mechanicals.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at May 28, 2009 1:39 PM

Nice looking place.

What are all those biggish looking buildings one block to the left?

Posted by: northsloperenter at May 28, 2009 1:41 PM

As a reply to the What...

"Again....just curious to see your thought process. I have a couple free minutes to kill today.

Posted by: bedstuyhoya at May 28, 2009 1:38 PM"

LOL...it'll take about 10 years of psychoanalysis.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 28, 2009 1:41 PM

Not to nitpick but it does seem pretty far to any subway stop...closest looks to be the C train. Am I wrong???

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 28, 2009 1:42 PM

Seriously I can see this house getting many offers now just off of today's post

Posted by: gemini10 at May 28, 2009 1:43 PM

BRG, you cant out-bid an Asian brotha

Posted by: more4less at May 28, 2009 1:43 PM

I think I have a new personal goal: once I finally decide it's time to buy, I want to find a listing like this before Brownstoner does. A place that just hasn't had real market exposure because the seller went with a realtor who doesn't know how to (or isn't able to) get listings like this in front of buyers. Place sits on the market forever, price drops again and again, and you end up with a nice juicy ripe listing that just has to be plucked off the vine and washed off.

No way this lasts now. I think this realtor should write out a personal check to Mr. B in an amount equal to 50% of his commission.

Posted by: lechacal at May 28, 2009 1:45 PM

BRG, it's just U & I. DIBS looking to drop out due to train station.

that big bldg to the left of it looks like a former church bldg converted to residential or office. pretty cool looking structure

Posted by: more4less at May 28, 2009 1:45 PM

3 train is about 6 blocks away. It's a hike but not the end of the world.

Posted by: lechacal at May 28, 2009 1:46 PM

This row of houses are among my favorite in all of Brooklyn! I've been inside one of them -- but can't remember which. Will never forget how my jaw dropped in response to all the exquisite detail -- not to mention the sheer size of the house! It's easy to see why this strip once had the nickname of "millionaire's row." If I were to win the lottery, I'd take this one at asking price!

Posted by: Brooklynista at May 28, 2009 1:47 PM

"What are all those biggish looking buildings one block to the left?"

A row of larger apartment buildings. Also pretty nice.

"Not to nitpick but it does seem pretty far to any subway stop...closest looks to be the C train."

It's about five blocks from the C train (Kingston/Throop), about four over to the 2/3 on Eastern Parkway (Kingston Av).

Posted by: East New York at May 28, 2009 1:48 PM

Public schools?

Posted by: lechacal at May 28, 2009 1:49 PM

this is a nice block. the price is great - but it does need a considerable amount of work. i actually think it's too big for me.

DIBS - C is the closest but the walk isn't too bad. i've done it many times going to the museum.

Posted by: bkny at May 28, 2009 1:50 PM

"that big bldg to the left of it"

THAT building is a former residence built by a classic Brooklyn residential architect whose name escapes me now. It's a magnificent stone building. Montrose will undoubtedly have the pertinent details.

Posted by: East New York at May 28, 2009 1:51 PM

m4l, that's where you're wrong. The cracker will outbid you because of your "Chinatown" dickering mentality. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qtrAMK7_Qk

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 28, 2009 1:51 PM

lechacal, public schools not up to your requirements

Posted by: more4less at May 28, 2009 1:51 PM

I might really be interested in this so I'm going to share whatever info I find out...heck if I don't end up persuing it, someone else might benefit.

Someone in the Open House Picks Thread from last year had mentioned that this house was an SRO.

DOB DOES NOT list it as an SRO, but the C of O states:
(1) apartment
(8) furnished rooms
(3) living rooms

I'm not sure what this means, but will find out.

Here's the DOB link:

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/PropertyProfileOverviewServlet?boro=3&houseno=859&street=st+marks+avenue&requestid=0&s=A03C41B885B461E4F46BD08866A7430E

Posted by: bayridgegirl at May 28, 2009 1:51 PM

Someone please tell us why this place sucks. All of the agreement is risking a tear in the space time continuum.

Posted by: lechacal at May 28, 2009 1:51 PM

too much wood for my tastes.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at May 28, 2009 1:52 PM

I'm guessing there's a reason it's still on the market. There is beautiful housing stock on this and other blocks, but it's still a pretty crappy nabe.

Posted by: FatLenny at May 28, 2009 1:54 PM

DIBS, the SRO thing BRG dug up just threw a massive financing hurdle she can't overcome. since I'm the only 1 left, I'll lower the offer to 500k

Posted by: more4less at May 28, 2009 1:56 PM

could it have killed them to mop the floors before taking these photos?

Posted by: janelle at May 28, 2009 1:57 PM

I didn't know they had Juliette balconies when this was built! I wonder what parking would be like being across from the museum.

Posted by: denton at May 28, 2009 1:57 PM

M4L, learn to read....It's NOT an SRO!!!

Posted by: bayridgegirl at May 28, 2009 1:58 PM

I can't wrap my head around the floor plans. I printed them and they're tiiiiiny. I'm going to have to save them and open them in a photo program.
I'll be right back.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at May 28, 2009 2:00 PM

BRG, 3 words for you: "No Financing Needed"

Posted by: more4less at May 28, 2009 2:00 PM

I was able to zoom in on the floorplans...it looks like a SRO...there doesn't look to be any kitchens in the building. Its hard to tell

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 28, 2009 2:03 PM

"BRG, 3 words for you: "No Financing Needed"

M4L, 3 words for you: "F#ck You Asshat"

Posted by: bayridgegirl at May 28, 2009 2:07 PM

"15% interest rates? What, walk me through your logic?"

Re-Read my posts.

"I think that folks are currently being duped into thinking that recession is coming to an end, and it is now going time to hold riskier assets.

Deflation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

In economics, deflation is a sustained decrease in the general price level of goods and services.[1] Deflation occurs when the annual inflation rate falls below zero percent, resulting in an increase in the real value of money — a negative inflation rate.

Riddle me this? Do you want to hold a asset that's going DOWN in value or sell it at any prices and get out???

We will probably hit another leg down, where folks will again rush to the relative safely of US Treasuries.

Oh no retard there is talk of the US losing that AAA rating!

Moody’s Opens Pandora’s Box on AAA Debt Ratings: William Pesek

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&refer=columnist_pesek&sid=adz9rcVTSxUA

It raises obvious questions about the U.S., which relies on Asia’s money. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner wasted no time last week in reassuring markets that the Obama administration is committed to reducing the federal budget deficit. Forcing him to the microphone was a jump in government-debt yields.

You, I and the US Government will pay higher interest rates for the foreseeable future! For someone to loan you money there is a risk premium that must be paid. Look at the long end of the Bond Market and get back to me with your "Logic". I wonder of you going to understand or be delusional like the rest of the assholes..

Class is over..

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at May 28, 2009 2:08 PM

Get back on the meds, What.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 28, 2009 2:13 PM

OK, I'll try to play devil's advocate as best I can:

- Need a lot of money in the bank. Reno will not be cheap.

- Build in the cost of private school. For three kids (my situation) that's a helluva lot of money over the years.

- A trip to Manhattan is really a schlep. I can make it to work in the financial district

- Not walking distance to "the" park.

Posted by: lechacal at May 28, 2009 2:14 PM

DIBS, it does look like an SRO as the upper floors looked chopped up, but technically it's not (and that's what counts). It could have been a boarding house.

The upper floors if reconfigured can have some great walk-in closets and en-suite bathrooms. This is a biiiig house.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at May 28, 2009 2:14 PM

What did I tell you, bedstuyhoya???!!!!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 28, 2009 2:14 PM

lechacal is right. To renovate and make this the show stopper that it should be, renovation won't be cheap!

Damn it!!!!!!!
Okay, this is going to be too big for Hubby and me....Next.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at May 28, 2009 2:20 PM

I think that to renovate it really nicely, the way it should be done, will cost as much as the house itself. It is 7,000 sq. ft.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 28, 2009 2:22 PM

OK, so let's take dibs' assumption that reno will be 1x purchase cost. So you spend $900k to buy and $900k to renovate. At the end of the day you live in a 7,000 square foot gorgeous limestone with lots of historic detail, across from the Children's museum and a block from a park.

But you live in Crown Heights. I'm not trying to throw mud here, but this does affect quality of life and value.

$1.9 million for that. Worth it or not?

Posted by: lechacal at May 28, 2009 2:30 PM

wow. math is fun-damendal. $1.8 million. jackass.

Posted by: lechacal at May 28, 2009 2:32 PM

so is spelling. i give up for the rest of the day.

Posted by: lechacal at May 28, 2009 2:33 PM

There will be no further use of "jackass" at the June 17 meet up, bad math or otherwise. :)

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 28, 2009 2:34 PM

will there be further use of "asshole?" ;)

Posted by: lechacal at May 28, 2009 2:40 PM

l, I hear you, but I wonder what kind of rental income you could get out of that? I mean, you could live very grandly in 3500 sft and you should be able to get two or three more apts out of it. Could pay a lot of mortgage with the rental, maybe not 1.8 mil tho.

Posted by: denton at May 28, 2009 2:41 PM

Depends upon whether any jackass has too much to drink or not :)

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 28, 2009 2:44 PM

I find it hard to wrap my head around the concept of living in 7000 square feet in Brooklyn. The house I sold in the CT suburbs a couple years ago was around 5000 sf, and that was enormous. One of the reasons we moved back is because it felt strange to live in so much space. Add another entire house on top of that and it's just immense. It takes a small fortune just to furnish that much space in a civilized manner.

Posted by: lechacal at May 28, 2009 2:48 PM

So how much would it cost to turn this into an SRO?

Posted by: bayridgegirl at May 28, 2009 2:52 PM

lechacal - i agree. 3000sq ft is good for a family of 4-5. i love this house but it's really to much living space for me. i would need to hire someone to clean it. i like one family living, so i would not be interested in renting to tenants. as far as quality of life & value - that is so individual. i think i have a very good quality of life in bed-stuy, others may differ and say how? but i have good friends, my children have lots of friends, a spacious home and a quick commute to work. so overall i would say that it's a very good quality of life.

Posted by: bkny at May 28, 2009 3:22 PM

and at a great value....

Posted by: bkny at May 28, 2009 3:23 PM

bkny, don't let cornerbodega know that you live in the ghetto. He is the be-all and end-all keeper of what is defined as good and what is not. :)

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 28, 2009 3:26 PM

Dave - you were right

What,

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but it appears that I was a bit to generous. I will ignore most of your incoherent ramblings but for two.

Moody's and S&P would be out of business if they downgraded S&P. Think of the reaction of Congress if those to entities suddenly made it harder for the legislative body to fulfill the "will of the people". Not going to happen. Not unless Moody's and S&P want to make their life harder.

With regards to Asia...you do an amazing job of going to Google News and cutting and pasting. While shifting through the mess of a central news portal is quite a feat, you lack the prerequisite analysis skills to decipher what you are reading.

Asia will be there to buy our bonds. I think there is some truth to the whole decoupling story that folks were talking about during the early part of this decade, but has been ridiculed since the onset of the current financial crisis. China and India with their immense population will continue to consume and grow. We see it today, both economies seem to be emerging from this global recession most quicker than their western counterparts..what will they do with all their money. Sure some of it will go to fund infrastructure projects and capital investment. However, where will they store their cash?

The rest of the world will be there to buy our bonds. Why? Because the US is and will be the largest most stable economy in the world. Asian can either hold their cash in their own loosely regulated financial institutions or buy the only known risk free asset in the universe. Interests rates will certainly rise, but to 15%?!?! c'mon...admit your exaggeration and move on brother.

Wow...that is a lot more than I thought I could write in 5 mines

What, you are an interesting character my man.

Hey - with all this talk of interest rate curves, can you tell me what a basis trade is or a butterfly? Obviously no way to verify if you really know the answer or not, but at least you be honest with your level of expertise (or lack thereof?)

Posted by: bedstuyhoya at May 28, 2009 3:43 PM

Let me see.. "bedstuyhoya" This means you are a transplanted douchebag from Nebraska. Just go here about 4 years ago living off of Mommy and Daddy credit cards most likely overpaying to live on Madison and Marcy Aves. I was bron and rasied in Bed Stuy and you know the good thing Fuckface, the Ghetto is going to reclaim it's territory. Jagoffs like you will be batting practice for the youngins. It's OK Baby you wont be the last Asshead that get PWNED. Now run along now..

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at May 28, 2009 4:06 PM

See what I said, bedstuyhoya...He's just an asshole when he acts like this.

He was apparently born and raised in every part of Brooklyn. But he has fled to NJ now. I think all along he was part of the problem and never took any initiative to be part of any solution. He lives in mommy's basement now.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 28, 2009 4:11 PM

Holy square footage Batman!

You guys are too slow. I already put in an offer of full asking price!

Posted by: the chicken at May 28, 2009 4:51 PM

The ghetto is going to reclaim its territory?

Look brother, I don't know you; don't claim to know me. I am sure you know that language like that will get your ass kicked in bed stuy (or any other neighborhood for that matter). I will not hesitate to deliver.

Posted by: bedstuyhoya at May 28, 2009 4:56 PM

How many people need a house this big and want to heat it? That's why it's still for sale. The area is fine.

Posted by: mopar at May 28, 2009 5:01 PM

"The area is fine."

Don't tell them that, Mopar! Who cares what naysayers think? If people don't want to live here, that's Kool and the Gang, as we used to say! I'm in favor of an asshat-free Crown Heights for as long as we can keep it that way.

Posted by: East New York at May 28, 2009 5:04 PM

Shut up, y'all. Even What can't hate this house.

It would probably cost waaay too much to heat 7K square feet, but that's tempting. If you didn't like the schools, you could just open your own.

Posted by: Heather at May 28, 2009 5:08 PM

OK, this is my dream house, so back off! I can't tell you how badly I want this place.

It is beautiful, and needs a lot of work. It's still basically a one family, with a center stair, and dividing it would be a sin, unless you were sharing with close friends or family. Lots of detail, lots. Kitchen is toast, but has built in cabinet and long vintage sink. Nothing else. Bathrooms are all a mess, and recent "renovations" to them are basic Home Depot, white 4x4 tiles, cheap sinks, etc. Some structural water damage, especially below balcony, around sinks in dressing rooms (yes, they are still there) and in the back extension. Some floors are in rough shape, too. Needs updating in all systems.

Did I mention I really want this place? I believe my Lotto numbers are coming up this week.

Neighborhood is very nice, subway is a bit of a walk, but doable. Landmarked area. Oh, that nice looking place to the left is one of the jewels of the neighborhood, a double house built by one Montrose Morris in 1892.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at May 28, 2009 5:09 PM

ENY, so I shouldn't rent out my place to an asshat? how can I tell if one is an asshat?

Posted by: more4less at May 28, 2009 5:09 PM

"ENY, so I shouldn't rent out my place to an asshat? how can I tell if one is an asshat?"

Hmmm...good question. You should bring this to the OT and have team PL weigh in...

Posted by: East New York at May 28, 2009 5:17 PM

MM, with 7,000 sq ft to play with, couldn't you rent out 6,000 of it to cover most of the bills and reclaim it as finances allow?

Posted by: the chicken at May 28, 2009 5:32 PM

MM...thanks!
Would it be livable while doing work to the house over time? Or is it a complete mess?

Posted by: bayridgegirl at May 28, 2009 5:32 PM

"Look brother, I don't know you; don't claim to know me. I am sure you know that language like that will get your ass kicked in bed stuy (or any other neighborhood for that matter). I will not hesitate to deliver."

Unintended consequence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unintended_consequence

Unintended consequences are outcomes that are not (or not limited to) the results originally intended in a particular situation. The unintended results may be foreseen or unforeseen, but they should be the logical or likely results of the action. For example, historians have speculated that if the Treaty of Versailles had not imposed such harsh conditions on Germany, World War II would not have occurred. From this perspective, one might consider the war an unintended consequence of the treaty.

I know Brownstoner is not around to banish you but I will say this. I am fully ready to take on any task before me. You can interpret at your own risk.

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at May 28, 2009 5:38 PM

Anyone want to call the realtor and ask him how many calls he got today?

Posted by: lechacal at May 28, 2009 6:05 PM

"Hi, I'm an Asshat that posts on Brownstoner and am curious how many calls you got today cause some of us believe that we drove the interest up for this house. And btw, what took you so long to lower the asking price?"

lechacal, I was going to call to go look at this house, but after studying it for a few realized it's too big of a house and requires too much work for hubby and me.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at May 28, 2009 6:21 PM

I use the internet to try to intimidate people especially after they prove me to be ignorant. It is the safest way to avoid a true confrontation, which works well for a poser like myself.

Posted by: ghettoazzpnkbtch at May 28, 2009 6:24 PM

Ouch. That stings a little.

Posted by: lechacal at May 28, 2009 6:25 PM

hey, bedstuyhoya --I know what those terms are, and also know that if you threatened someone like that in my shop, I'd have your desk clear within the hour.

Posted by: Whuh at May 28, 2009 6:40 PM

BRG- trust me on this- go see that house. MM and I spent many an afternoon weeping over what we could not have. Despite all the work, it could be done in stages- this is no gut reno that means living somewhere else while it goes on. The place is unbelievable and at that price to call it a steal is an understatement.

Posted by: bxgrl at May 28, 2009 6:44 PM

I saw the place when it was first on the market and was very disappointed with the interior. Not only has it been chopped up into SRO formation on top floors, the original design made no sense. The biggest fireplaces I have ever seen (and kind of ugly to boot) had been installed right in front of the very small windows in the back. To get any light you'd need to rip out the fireplaces and then enlarge the windows. The center stair was also a problem in terms of creating some separate units and my memory of the outdoor space was that it was non-existant (although there might have been some sort of shared driveway). It would require a ton of work, there was way too much wood for my taste, it was incredibly dark, not my cup of tea on the inside at all, but a great exterior.

Posted by: Brooklynnative at May 28, 2009 7:34 PM

jesus this palce is enormous. it probably sold for this price brand new. just kidding.

Posted by: BrooklynLove at May 28, 2009 7:48 PM

Brooklynnative, you are the only hater.

Posted by: lechacal at May 28, 2009 8:43 PM

lechacal--

Still laughing at your earlier post:

Someone please tell us why this place sucks. All of the agreement is risking a tear in the space time continuum.

time space? Whatever. Still trying to figure out what the tear could mean.

Posted by: tinarina at May 28, 2009 9:22 PM

tear. like rip. time space continuum... ever read a brief history of the universe or any other nerd classics?

Posted by: lechacal at May 28, 2009 11:52 PM

Oh Montrose I would love for you to have this place. And why not? You'd only have to start your own cult though to fill up all the bedrooms. Maybe you could start by founding an academy of historic architecture and fill the place up with students.

Posted by: mopar at May 28, 2009 11:54 PM

Thanks, mopar. I think. Cults are SO much work.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at May 29, 2009 12:37 AM

it is not an SRO. the property profile on the DOB's website says "N", meaning no for SRO restriction.

Posted by: aj at May 30, 2009 12:45 AM

« Co-op of the Day: 80 Poplar Street, #1R StreetLevel: Franny's Cheese Shop Opening Soon »

May 28, 2009

House of the Day: 859 St. Marks Avenue

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