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May 20, 2009
House of the Day: 449 Bergen Street
This two-family house at 449 Bergen Street in Park Slope hit the market last month asking $1,899,000 and just reduced earlier this week to $1,795,000. The three-story (sorta) house was renovated top-to-bottom in 2002, the year before the current owner bought it for $595,000. Seems like a pretty stiff mark-up to us.
449 Bergen Street [Aguayo & Huebener] GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
What am I missing. It says 3 story, 2 family and owner's triplex. I'm confuzzed.
Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at May 20, 2009 1:18 PM
I think they have to knock a bit more off the price now that the used book store on that block has closed and the cheese steak place has become the scarily named "Fish and Sip".
Hardware store and sex toy shop are right nearby. Plus the ambulance corps in case of accidents or if you forget to set your alarm for 3:35am.
Posted by: northsloperenter at May 20, 2009 1:19 PM
realtor Link says 1795...or am i missing something ?
Posted by: dutchman at May 20, 2009 1:19 PM
obviously i am not reading...
Posted by: dutchman at May 20, 2009 1:23 PM
it seems crazy expensive to me, for a small house right off Flatbush and located on a short lot. I don't know the area very well, why is this house so expensive?
Posted by: Maly at May 20, 2009 1:26 PM
Maly...because its "rarely available." :)
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 20, 2009 1:28 PM
ridiculous.
really ridiculous.
bottom of the barrell for top drawer price.
Posted by: sam at May 20, 2009 1:29 PM
hey, miss muffett...2002 - $595,000 - is this fair value?
Posted by: 7182713 at May 20, 2009 1:30 PM
PS the widget is on the blinkski
Posted by: sam at May 20, 2009 1:30 PM
Are they dreaming?
Re-list it for 999k and be thrilled if anyone bites.
Posted by: alsawo at May 20, 2009 1:34 PM
> "Re-list it for 999k and be thrilled if anyone bites."
Ditto.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at May 20, 2009 1:36 PM
Why are the A&H listins sooooo bad? Where's the floorplan?
I hope the seller's lurking...WHAT ARE YOU PAYING THEM FOR???
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 20, 2009 1:39 PM
I think even 999 is a stretch, given the 2002 price. Listing is terrible - where is the floor plan? Looks like a small house in a not-great location. I would value it at 950-999 (who wants to pay the mansion tax for this? but the widget won't let me.
Posted by: Miss Muffett at May 20, 2009 1:41 PM
I agree with the 999 price
Posted by: sam at May 20, 2009 1:44 PM
I've got to defend Fish and Sip. I stopped in the other day for dinner and it was really good and pretty cheap too. Also, the owner was really sweet. Go check it out.
Also, I love this block of bergen, right near the 2/3 and the whole east side of the street has got some new and interesting retail, and also very close to restaurants/nightlife and supermarkets on fifth.
That being said, the listing is horrible (no floor plan) the verbal description doesn't make any sense, the cieling heights look low (looks like a cave) and the phots in general are terrible.
Posted by: bkre at May 20, 2009 1:46 PM
Market should be at 2003 prices, therefore this should be 595K, not a penny more.
Seriously, having been in the market for houses in this area in 2001-02, they either got a tremendous bargain (for an already renovated house) or there was some other factor we don't know about. At this time I was not seeing anything within the actual boundaries of Park Slope (including the fringes like this, which is where I was looking) for anywhere near 595K except wrecks in need of a gut renovation. '03 would have been even higher.
I'd keep that in mind in considering the "markup"--either that was well below market at the time, or there is/was some horrible hidden flaw.
Posted by: basementalist at May 20, 2009 1:47 PM
InsertSnappyName: I'm guessing it's a legal 2-family used as 1, but I agree it is a terrible listing.
Posted by: basementalist at May 20, 2009 1:52 PM
lol. I'm sure Fish and Sip is a lovely spot. I just can't get the vision of pureed grouper in a glass with a celery stalk for a straw out of my mind.
I take the 2/3 and am on this block fairly often. It's a bit on the noisy side and gets a lot of the psycho drivers peeling off flatbush hell bent on killing someone, but it is close to a lot of stores and, of course, the subway.
Bergen Bagels across flatbush is the best bagel shop in the area, and Blue Sky bakery around the corner of 5th makes some great muffins.
And if the vibrator you buy at Babeland breaks down, the nice guys at Pintchik's might be able to fix it for you.
But the ambulance corps nearby would bug me. Mostly because I use to live near one, and they woke me up at least once a month.
Posted by: northsloperenter at May 20, 2009 1:54 PM
only way I see this approaching asking price is accuaracy of listing where they say development rights of another
3200+ sq feet.
Otherwise this is small lot with small backyard and not some nice tree line brownstone block.
Posted by: Petebklyn at May 20, 2009 2:00 PM
I'm so sad to hear that No Name Books closed down! When?
I agree with northsloperenter that this block, while convenient, is a little noisy and unpleasant.
Posted by: infirm at May 20, 2009 2:02 PM
The book store closed a few weeks ago.
Sign says they are relocating to Prospect Heights on Vanderbilt, I think.
Posted by: northsloperenter at May 20, 2009 2:07 PM
The sign at No Name Books says they moved to Vanderbilt in Prospect - I think near Bergen - in Prospect Heights.
Posted by: myplace at May 20, 2009 2:08 PM
Fish and Sip has great coffee and food. The location is great, close to 5th Av resturants, the Atlantic Mall and the subway.
The ambulance corps nearby is not fun but I like the house and the location.
Posted by: bk8 at May 20, 2009 2:11 PM
Awful listing!
Are there two kitchens???
Photo 2 shows a kitchen with an island and what appears to be a white double oven, a cooktop with a hood and a detailed ceiling.
Photo 6 shows a kitchen with black appliances and a different ceiling.
Regardless, it's still overpriced by alot!
Posted by: bayridgegirl at May 20, 2009 2:15 PM
When you have nothing nice to say....
.
.
.
.
.
I have nothing.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at May 20, 2009 2:20 PM
what do you expect from A&G? They're the worst. ONe thing i can say is that the photos looks sort of good....wish they weren't microscopic though.
Posted by: CGmodern at May 20, 2009 2:24 PM
Comps will bottom at no more than $0.750M. Easy.
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at May 20, 2009 2:28 PM
what is that big box protuding in the left corner of the first photo? is it the kitchen????
Posted by: binnyG at May 20, 2009 2:28 PM
What say we all call A&H and pepper the agent with endless questions and hope it inspires him/her to fix the listing :)
Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at May 20, 2009 2:29 PM
Snappy, I think we should save ourselves the effort and just email the Agent this thread.
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 20, 2009 2:33 PM
Agree that this is one of the more overpriced places featured recently, possibly by 40-50%. Photos make it feel like most of the house is underground - seems like very little natural light. Interiors are meh.
Posted by: etson at May 20, 2009 2:35 PM
Re: the ridiculous price for this property-- It's A&H, should we expect anything less? They seem to specialize in bleeding their clients by mis-pricing properties.
Posted by: MoneyForNothing at May 20, 2009 2:39 PM
The nice thing abt A&H properties though is you can set intrinsic value easily by their pricing. Discount by 40-50% or you're overpaying. The supply a much needed service.
Posted by: MoneyForNothing at May 20, 2009 2:40 PM
Photo 1: What is the angled 'niche'? Is that the stairs? If so, oh, hell no!!!!! 1.8M house and you don't get a beautiful staircase.
I'm too lazy to look it up. How wide is this house? Cause it sure is Squat.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at May 20, 2009 2:42 PM
so many houses are "rarely available" these days....
968,000
Posted by: raphael9 at May 20, 2009 2:48 PM
I like this block of Bergen as well -- what they've done on the commercial side is really quite wonderful (though I didn't know the bookstore closed, that's a bummer)...but it really isn't a residential block. Sandwiched between Flatbush and Fifth Ave, its short and noisy -- not homey in the least bit. Given that, the price seems crazy, especially because this place doesn't seem big or otherwise special. Place is zoned for 282 -- given its location, it could have much worth zoning, so I guess its got that going for it.
Posted by: aishling at May 20, 2009 2:56 PM
Anyone understand why A&H has 2 separate, poorly designed website with different properties?
Posted by: MoneyForNothing at May 20, 2009 2:58 PM
The widget is not taking my guess of 1195000. (It is 25' wide after all -- no way this going for under a million).
And what is up with the double websites?
Posted by: Boerumresident at May 20, 2009 3:03 PM
Sorry the widget isn't taking everyone's estimates. Something must have happened when we rejiggered the range of prices...working on it.
Posted by: brownstoner at May 20, 2009 3:08 PM
> Market should be at 2003 prices, therefore this should be 595K, not a penny more.
Didn't it say they did an extensive renovation after buying? Who knows what that really means, but there's probably some added value there.
Posted by: alsawo at May 20, 2009 3:09 PM
Oops. My mistake. It was renovated BEFORE the 595k sale. I retract my earlier suggestion of 999k. Even that's too high.
Posted by: alsawo at May 20, 2009 3:10 PM
Ooooooh, "beautiful medallions and details" -- are they referring to the vents and the down lights? Nothing sets off an original plaster medallion quite like a vent.
Posted by: mopar at May 20, 2009 3:20 PM
should be a demo if there is 3,200 SF of development rights.
Land is $200/SF in this area tops. $1M for this property at most, maybe more if the current own takes down their shack.
Posted by: Polemicist at May 20, 2009 3:27 PM
this is someone's home you are speaking about. you might think it's overpriced, but to call this lovely home a shack is downright despicable.
Posted by: swine_flu at May 20, 2009 3:30 PM
Can't comment on the price, but this is a pretty short lot!
LOT SIZE 25 x 59
BUILDING SIZE 25 x 35
Posted by: _oa_ at May 20, 2009 3:40 PM
it's a cute little house and personally i like that stretch of Bergen as it's super close to 5th avenue and key food and blue sky - plus the trains
That being said, I have to say the price is outlandish. I know it's 25 feet wide and according to the realtor you have an etra 3200 feet to build on but it's lacking that true brownstone feel that would command a price like 1.8mil
I put my widget at 1.35
Posted by: gemini10 at May 20, 2009 3:42 PM
LOT SIZE 25 x 59
BUILDING SIZE 25 x 35
Okay...1.8M is just ridiculous for this!!
Posted by: bayridgegirl at May 20, 2009 3:49 PM
950k - buyer's mkt
Posted by: more4less at May 20, 2009 4:10 PM
Who in right mind would give a million for this? This is compromised living. Assuming one can rent part of it, a middle class family might afford it. This means 400K (the house they afford) plus 200K (for the rental)=600K. The fair price based on median income (100K) is 600K.
-I want even consider the joke widget
-people call this market a buyer's market but this is not true as the gov/fed are pumping NY real estate with bailouts, tax cuts/credits etc. If it was a buyers market this would have been already 600K.
Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at May 20, 2009 4:33 PM
buyer's mkt means cheaper by the day. today 950k. wait a month and econ still in the dumbs. 875k. so on so on.....
mkt is not a microwave. 600k doesn't materialize in blink of eye - it requires patience waiting for it to drip drip....
Posted by: more4less at May 20, 2009 4:46 PM
A&H is really two firms led very independently by the named partners, thus the 2 websites. Seems like this would be the time for them to just divorce already.
I can't seem to put in my pirce - 950k - is there some restriction on the widget (if so it smells like a present from Brownstoner to the real estate industry).
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at May 20, 2009 6:01 PM
I'd love to see what this place really looks like on the inside...25' wide would make for some very comfortably sized rooms. Yeah, it seems overpriced, but I wonder what you can get immediately south of Flatbush for less? Looks like it doesn't need anything, which is a plus for most people.
I'm not overwhelmed by the neighborhood. "Park Slope" to me is considerably south and east of here...
Posted by: Bolder at May 20, 2009 6:29 PM
more4less: mkt is not a microwave. 600k doesn't materialize in blink of eye - it requires patience waiting for it to drip drip....
exactly this market is chinese torture. whoever needs to buy now is screwed.
Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at May 20, 2009 6:29 PM
MaplewoodGuy, renting in hood you like is great way to enjoy perks of that hood while waiting for prices to drip into range to buy & become owner.
ownership is not always great and renting is not always bad. no one said one has to buy a bigger place - one can rent one too.
Posted by: more4less at May 20, 2009 6:40 PM
"needs to buy now"
No such thing.
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at May 20, 2009 7:33 PM
Let's all say this togethe:. The market is beyond inflated. This property listing is our jump the shark momrmt mu friends. A desperate grab for cash by A&H to cash in at the tail end of one spectacular bubble. Just pathetic. Pity the sellers, being sold a pile of dog crap by A&H. Of pity the poor fool so pays even close to asking and loses their shirt.
Posted by: MoneyForNothing at May 20, 2009 9:30 PM
BHO, I need to buy now. Age, family situation, could be laid off, before interest rates go up.
Posted by: mopar at May 20, 2009 11:28 PM
This is Park Slope? It seems like a far stretch into the nethermost regions.
Posted by: BklynSoFar at May 20, 2009 11:47 PM
As someone who has been househunting for far too long, I am not quite getting this thread. No, the house is not a marvel of beauty, but neither it is hopelessly small or ugly--the moulding in the family room is quite pretty--and the school district counts for a LOT, as does proximity to 5th Avenue and the fact that it includes a rental. Prices have come down but the sad fact for us buyers is, they haven't come down as much as most of us want. I dislike A&H as much as the next potential buyer (the site is inexcusable in this day and age, and the brokers are not generally pleasant to deal with) but unless the sellers are truly desperate this will not go for under a million. While $1.795M indicates some serious apple-pie-in-the-sky thinking, I think Boerumresident is right, around $1.1M to $1.2M. It will sit on the market like most of the listings I have been watching while the sellers get used to that haircut.
Posted by: gidgetgoesbrooklyn at May 21, 2009 8:50 AM
"the school district counts for a LOT"
282 is not 321.
Posted by: northsloperenter at May 21, 2009 9:11 AM
"BHO, I need to buy now. Age, family situation, could be laid off, before interest rates go up."
You are absolutely wrong, mopar (especially "laid off" - I don't get that one). How do you think poor, low income families manage? You WANT to buy. How many times do we have to go over the interest rate thing? Higher rates will add to the already downward price pressure and cancel out the monthly payment effect (smaller principal). Please tell me I've been had by sarcasm.
"Prices have come down but the sad fact for us buyers is, they haven't come down as much as most of us want."
Impatience will cost you hundreds of thousands, gidget.
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at May 21, 2009 9:44 AM
"282 is not 321."
It isn't Berkeley Carroll either, but it's a good public school. Show me the multifamily house that big in the 321 district for $1.2M (or $1.795 for that matter).
Incidentally, every single parent I have talked to with a child in 321 complains about the overcrowding, the attitude of the main office and the lack of interaction with teachers. Sure, it's a good school but it isn't perfect, and it isn't the only one in Brooklyn that's any good.
Anyway, my point was that wishful thinking aside, there is no way this house is going for under a million. Believe me, I am trying to buy, I WANT prices to come down like that but they just haven't.
Posted by: gidgetgoesbrooklyn at May 21, 2009 9:52 AM
282 seems like a good school that has been getting better.
321 is generally considered one of the top schools in the city -- probably because every parent whose child goes there complains about overcrowding, bad attitudes in the main office, and lack of interactionw ith the teachers.
I don't think the place will go for under a million either.
The block is a bit noisy and all, but it is not like it is on Flatbush, and the location is super convenient.
Oh, and I think maybe I'll try to give that Fish and Sip place a chance. Maybe this weekend I'll try to get something there.
Posted by: northsloperenter at May 21, 2009 10:01 AM
"321 is generally considered one of the top schools in the city -- probably because every parent whose child goes there complains about overcrowding, bad attitudes in the main office, and lack of interactionw ith the teachers."
Okay, that made me laugh. It is true, there is no complainer like a parent with a kid in a top-rated public school.
BHO, no matter what you may say here, market timing is a question mark. The AMT is as sure as death.
Posted by: gidgetgoesbrooklyn at May 21, 2009 10:23 AM
The idea that this piece of property is intrinsically worth even a tick over a million dollars is guesswork at best. The rental will pull in modest income w/ prices under pressure.
On the upside, per StreetEasy, we are ALREADY getting a nice discount on a rarely available brownstone--A&H of course initially listed it for $1.9M last month! A Bargain!!
No news here, but we are in the beginning stages of an enormous (unprecedented) economic downturn highlighted by an eventual spike in inflation. Likely in a massive bear market rally.
The financial services industry outgrew every comparable high-end profession. Drove RE prices more than any single factor. It is going through massive consolidation. I am lucky enough to have the wherewithal to purchase a reasonably priced brownstone (such a thing?). But I do not know a single person otherwise who does, and 1/2 the people I know are unemployed.
City tax rolls about to get slammed—takes a year for the Wall st effect to sink in. Less svcs, higher taxes, more homelessness, more crime. Love the city, but this will likely happen.
Yes, someone will purchase this place at close to a mil. They will fall for the trap set by a WILD overpricing. Greater fool theory.
This market is just ridiculous. Catch a falling knife at your own peril.
**Objects in rear view mirror are closer than they appear.**
Posted by: MoneyForNothing at May 21, 2009 10:32 AM
"BHO, no matter what you may say here, market timing is a question mark."
And nothing I said negated that. There's no date, time and temperature for when the market will bottom. But I'll know it when I see it (NY Case-Shiller Index starts showing positive change from previous year). Good things come to those who wait.
"The financial services industry outgrew every comparable high-end profession."
Bingo! What are we left with? The comparable high-end professions (hello doctors!). Massive void in price support. Fuggedaboutit!
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at May 21, 2009 10:49 AM
BHO, stop talking to yourself.
Posted by: northsloperenter at May 21, 2009 11:52 AM
BHO, every calculation I do shows us saving money if we buy now.
Example: House is $425,000 now. With 10 percent down and interest rates at 4.9 percent, the monthly mortgage payment is $2096.
If the interest rate goes up to 7.0 (reasonable -- this was the rate in July '08) and the price comes down to $350,000, it is slightly more expensive at $2096 a month.
If the interest rate goes up to 12.0 and the price comes down to $300,000, the monthly mortgage jumps to $2777.
We can't afford that.
Posted by: mopar at May 21, 2009 1:56 PM
"No news here, but we are in the beginning stages of an enormous (unprecedented) economic downturn highlighted by an eventual spike in inflation. Likely in a massive bear market rally."
I agree with this. We're going to have economic stagnation for a decade and inflation.
For Miss Muffet, who is buying in an expensive area with mostly cash, it makes sense to wait. In my case, it may make sense to buy. Prices are 40 percent off peak and interest rates are low.
Posted by: mopar at May 21, 2009 2:01 PM
Oops, the monthly mortgage payment is $2030 in the first example, not $2096.
Posted by: mopar at May 21, 2009 2:02 PM
Where are all those geniuses that don't belive housing prices will not come down more than half in New Yorrk City?learly the seller is testing the market to see if any fish nibble at the bait. He should know that the drying up of credit has also dried up the pool of fools. Any home price after 2003 is purely speculative and overinflated. If someone does buy at the current asking price he/she will probably be welcomed to the neighborhood as an idiot.
Posted by: hannible at May 22, 2009 6:46 AM
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