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May 15, 2009

Backyard Reno Unveils Old Well in Fort Greene

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This just in from a reader:

We are in the midst of a renovation of our brownstone in Ft. Greene and made a fascinating discovery in our backyard. The contractors were digging a hole to pour the footings for an extension and new deck and they stumbled across the opening of an old well. The well was below what used to be a blue stone patio and the opening was under about 2 feet of dirt. The well is approximately 8 to 10 feet deep and is made of stone. I'd like to get readers' opinions about the use of and history of wells in Brownstone Brooklyn. Also, I'd like to get readers' suggestions about what I should do with it. I am sure my contractor will suggest that we fill it in and keep building, but I am interested in hearing ideas about preserving the well or maybe some creative way of incorporating it into our backyard or renovation. I'd hate to just cover it up because it's a pretty cool discovery.

Cool indeed! Any ideas? Check out another close-up photo on the jump.

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Click on photo for a larger view




Posted by Brownstoner at 10:30 AM | Comments (39)
Categories: Fort Greene, Gardening, Historical

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Comments

Don't go near it. Surely, it is haunted.

Posted by: obsessedwithhats at May 15, 2009 10:33 AM

Whatever you do with it, first do some digging for objects that fell down or were tossed down the well when it was in use.

Posted by: traditionalmod at May 15, 2009 10:35 AM

Do a goldfish pond in the middle of your deck/patio.

Posted by: Arkady at May 15, 2009 10:35 AM

Just a wild guess, but could this well have existed before your house was built?

Posted by: Schultz at May 15, 2009 10:37 AM

Build up the top like an old wishing well- hopefully friends and family will keep tossing money down there and you'll make a fortune :-)

Posted by: bxgrl at May 15, 2009 10:42 AM

wells, for water, were abandoned when the city built the upstate aqueduct system and supplied city water to residential neighborhoods after around 1870. They often then became a handy garbage dump for the fmily and as such are highly valued by archaeologists for the debris and object of material culture that they contain in nice neat layers.
On the othe hand this may not have been a well at all but the pit under a privy. This pits were used until they filled up and then emptied by a "night soil" hauler, certainly one of the worst jobs ever. So was it a well or toilet? That is the question for the modern treasure hunter.

Posted by: sam at May 15, 2009 10:42 AM

It could be an outhouse pit or a sistern used to collect runoff water. Traditionalmod is correct in that you should keep an eye out for objects (garbage) that was thrown is to fill it up once they didn't need it anymore. You should call Jack Fortmeyer (718-541-9642) who "specializes" in digging yards and looking for things like this. He can also give you some interesting ideas on what to do with the space, if anything. We found over a hundred objects (bottles, plates, toothbrushes etc.) when we dug ours, all over 100 years old. Have fun!

Posted by: cobblegriller at May 15, 2009 10:43 AM

I believe it's a cistern, not a well or a privy. I worked on a project on the Lower East Side that had a similar underground structure. There was also a privy further back in the yard, but that was not stone-lined.

Posted by: kvnbklyn at May 15, 2009 10:45 AM

Buld your deck over it with a trap door. Drop a keg in there and fill it with ice and just have the tap sticking out for your summer parties.

Posted by: ou812 at May 15, 2009 10:46 AM

Congratulations on a great find. I'm a little jealous...

I would get the water tested and if there are no heavy metals, add a period manual water pump and water your edible plants from it. There is no reason to use drinking water to water plants.

If the water is somehow potable, it is a great backup water supply in case there is ever a problem with the nyc water supply.

Posted by: Argyle Road at May 15, 2009 10:46 AM

Its also a great compost bin...

Posted by: Argyle Road at May 15, 2009 10:48 AM

I meant to say water your non edible plants from it.

Posted by: Argyle Road at May 15, 2009 10:48 AM

Make it bigger, fill it with water and swim in it. Drain and use as a root cellar in the winter.

Posted by: slopenick at May 15, 2009 11:14 AM

Definitely keep it intact. Add it to your deck/patio, put the wishing well top on it or the handpump as people have mentioned.

It is a great piece of history and would be an amazing unique element to your backyard.

Posted by: christopher at May 15, 2009 11:25 AM

Hope it is indeed a cistern or well and not a privy. I'll bet some want to have it filled in [liability issues???] but if it were my yard I would build it up to the present ground level and make it a true secondary water source if at all possible. Your plants will love it. You can also use the water in the yard for many many other things. Good luck and let Brownstoner know the outcome!

Posted by: 5w30 at May 15, 2009 11:35 AM

if it is only ten feet deep and close to the house, it probably is a cistern. a big one.
take more photos and document its location and then fill it in and cover it. open cisterns and wells pose very dangerous hazards, especially for children. It will always be there regardless.

Posted by: sam at May 15, 2009 11:53 AM

I am the homeowner and wanted to give you guys an update on what's happening with the well:

We dug out the opening, dropped a ladder and climbed in. When we got in, we saw that there are 3 pipes coming from the direction of the house that emptied into the well. The bottom of the well is made of stone and there was absolutely no trash or debris in the well. The stone walls are a little moist, but there is not a collection of water at the bottom of the well. Based on what little I know about this stuff, I think it is a dry well that was used to collect water from the house and perhaps runoff from the roof.

Based on conversations with my contractor and engineer, I think we are going to be able to preserve it. We are going to re-configure the footings and the deck such that the opening of the well will be incorporated into the new patio. I'd really like to preserve the well so that our guests and future inhabitants of the house can appreciate it. This is one of those things that makes living in Brooklyn so cool. Keep your comments coming.

Posted by: bklynman at May 15, 2009 12:00 PM

If you are building your extension over it, my impractical and wildly expensive idea would be to clean it, light it and build a glass floor to expose the well. I stayed at a hotel in Arkansas built over an old mill, and they had done such a floor over the river in the lobby. If I remember the name (the Mill at something?) I will update later.

Posted by: Maly at May 15, 2009 12:09 PM

I'd line it with a non-contextual yellow brick and cement and then claim elitism if anyone objects.

Posted by: dittoburg at May 15, 2009 12:10 PM

pipes from the house?
how interesting.
it was an early cesspool.
if so, it would not take runoff from the roof as that would cause it to be filled up sooner than necessary.
A cistern would collect pure rainwater for the family's use. you would not mix waste water and rainwater.
I'm glad you are working around it and keeping it.

Posted by: sam at May 15, 2009 12:13 PM

I also think it's a cistern. If it were filled with stones, it probably would make a great dry well for the garden.

BTW Sam, the NYC upstate water system didn't serve the independent City of Brooklyn, whose water system was fed by wells on Long Island. I think the remnants of that system still serve part of Nassau County.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at May 15, 2009 1:00 PM

It puts the lotion in the basket.

Posted by: kutterkan at May 15, 2009 1:04 PM

Get down into the well and read Haruki Murakami's "The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle." Then watch crazy things happen.

Posted by: shovel lover at May 15, 2009 1:06 PM

Since its not a well, I have a new idea...Put a grate about two feet down and make it a fire pit.

Posted by: Argyle Road at May 15, 2009 1:12 PM

You could also then, grill on top of it at grade level.

Posted by: Argyle Road at May 15, 2009 1:13 PM

Yes, it is a well...but a "dry well"...it is not a cistern to hold fresh water or a well for drawing off water. It's like a septic tank where the water in it would slowly soak into the soil.

Before a City of Brooklyn set up a sewer system, houses had a backyard septic system/dry well for both gray water and rain runoff.

The pipes going into the dry well carried water from the kitchen sink and probably urine dumped out of urinals. Poop may have been collected by a poop cart that would come around in the morning. Chamber pots were emptied into the poop cart. Of course, poop may have made it into outhouse pits and other "home-based" systems when possible.

Also, without having a sewer system to carry off rain water, instead of having yards flooded, the downspout (leader) would run to a pipe or brick duct underground which brought the water to the dry well so it could handle heavy rains. The water would slowly percolate into the soil.

If the dry well is deeply buried, it is unlikely it would have things thown into it. I'm sure Cook or Mother or the maid, if the original dwellers had one, would have been on the alert to make sure nothing of value and nothing bulky that could get stuck (and stop up the pipe) would go down the drain in the kitchen sink.

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at May 15, 2009 1:17 PM

Bob Marvin: you are correct, Brooklyn obtained its water from Long Island aquifers in the 19th century. it was not hooked up to the new Catskill water system until the 1910's.
Do you have any idea when houses in the brownstone belt started getting city water? I assume by the 1880's most middle class dwellings had running water. In Manhattan grand houses started having running water starting in the 1830's or so.

Posted by: sam at May 15, 2009 1:25 PM

BrooklnGreene - I like the euphemism "nightsoil" better.

Posted by: dittoburg at May 15, 2009 1:30 PM

This is so cool. I love the idea of lighting it and putting over a glass/plexiglass cover.

I'd use this as wine storage. If you put on a hinged top, you could easily store bottles down there. Would be amazing for an outdoor party, you could keep bottles of beer and water and soda in there and let folks pull them up.

Posted by: bkrules at May 15, 2009 1:43 PM

Wine cellar - what a great idea!

Posted by: dittoburg at May 15, 2009 2:04 PM

do you have children? could make a great 'timeout' pit...

Posted by: travy at May 15, 2009 2:12 PM

Well, if you call it "nightsoil"...what happens with the "daysoil"...? I guess if you save it overnight from the previous day you might be able to count it under "nightsoil"...

:-)

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at May 15, 2009 2:13 PM

No question - make a wine cellar: http://www.spiralcellars.com/us/description.htm

Posted by: jack123 at May 15, 2009 2:19 PM

LOL...kutterkan!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 15, 2009 3:10 PM

we found something similar in a brownstone back yard in the heights. the one we found was a brick "pipe" and wall, we think it was for sewage. this one looks a lot more elaborate.good stuff!

Posted by: jelly donut at May 15, 2009 5:12 PM

kutterkan - classic. Have you seen the music video?

Posted by: wilso26941 at May 15, 2009 5:44 PM

i'll tell you for a fact it's an old cistern. the pipes into it came from the gutters on the house to save rain water. given the times we are living in i believe you will see these things being used again.

Posted by: xbklynite at May 15, 2009 9:42 PM

Very cool...a little spooky, but very cool!

Posted by: Misty B at May 16, 2009 9:27 PM

It is defiantly not a cistern.A cistern is (parged) on the inside to prevent water from seeping out.It is either a privy or a well.
We are in the process of digging a brick lined well/privy,three wood lined privy's were dug in this yard and the brick pit is closer to the house.It still could turn out to be a privy,time will tell.I have dug a few deep privy's,one was 6x22 feet deep it had 12 feet of fill.Large stones,clay etc then it ended with a 10 foot use layer,and yielded 600 bottles from 1860s 70s 80s 90s.We thought it was a well at first,but the privy fodder told us different.

My web site shows pictures of the brick well/privy we are into. www.19thcenturybottlediggers.com

Posted by: Privydigger7 at May 29, 2009 10:36 PM

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