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April 10, 2009

Open House Picks: Six Months Later

Comment: No good news here.
Open House Picks 10/10/08 [Brownstoner]
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I still like the bones of the WT place but I'm not sure $1mm is the right price for something that needs full kitchen/bath renos and a complete visual overhaul on the interior.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at April 10, 2009 12:44 PM

The Boerum Hill place is sinking like a stone.

Posted by: East New York at April 10, 2009 12:46 PM

agreed - I think maybe $800K could move that WT house
it looks good and on a nice block
but not shy of a million - sorry!

Wow - this is REALLY depressing to see the past 3 weeks no open house picks have sold or even gone into contract

Posted by: gemini10 at April 10, 2009 12:48 PM

150 Bond, keep up the good work. Keep slashing and you'll eventually find a buyer. I'll wait patiently with my 995k offer. hehehe

Posted by: more4less at April 10, 2009 12:48 PM

150 Bond Street - I mean slash another 500-600K and you probably could end the game of "Chase The Buyer"!

Posted by: gemini10 at April 10, 2009 12:51 PM

Is the Boerum Hill place the one that was just a shell (with approved plans)?

Posted by: tybur6 at April 10, 2009 12:51 PM

And what's the monthly rent on a $2mm place? yikes.

Posted by: tybur6 at April 10, 2009 12:54 PM

Also, I feel bad for that little Albermarle Terrace place. It's a great place, but "Victorian Flatbush" is really pushing it in this instance. It's on one of those excellent little side, terrace streets... but surrounded by horrible, huge, Soviet-style apartment block buildings.

Posted by: tybur6 at April 10, 2009 12:57 PM

I saw the WT house. It's in great shape, but as you say needs a complete visual overhaul and kitchen/bath.

I put it at 999 when I saw it. I doubt it'll get down to 800.

Posted by: MR at April 10, 2009 12:57 PM

MR - I'm pretty sure they could do about $3k worth of staging and the house would sell at $999. It's clearly solid, it just needs new paint/wallpaper/etc. They could even make the kitchen look tolerable on the cheap.

Right now it looks like grandma's house, and I think that hurts it a lot.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at April 10, 2009 1:01 PM

For those who got into the whole "team bear" and "team bull" thing: It has now been several weeks straight of very bearish news. But there are almost no self-congratulatory posts by the bears trying to rub the bulls' noses in the news. I don't think most of the bears are the heartless jerks they are sometimes made out to be (a few notable exceptions like cornerbodega aside). I actually think this site is remarkable for the general civility of the discourse.

Muffett - I did catch your lete posts on earlier threads. Thanks for the shout out (and, as promised, your patience is being slowly rewarded).

Posted by: lechacal at April 10, 2009 1:02 PM

First off, I think this is excellent news. Prices are beginning to come back to earth.

Second, I think $800k is about right for that WT house. This one mentioned yesterday went for $840k:

- http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2009/04/brooklyn_sales_2.php

Posted by: SnarkSlope at April 10, 2009 1:04 PM

Boy, 150 Bond still has a long way to go. Let's compare it to this Corcoran place (http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1536462) at 113 Garfield Pl. Both have the same listing price and look to be roughly the same size (the park slope place being slighly larger). The differences? The Park Slope place is in a marginally better location (quieter street, better schools) and has a backyard; the Boerum Hill place has three garages. Pretty close.

Oh, and I forgot, the Boerum Hill place has no interior to speak of...which would you buy for $1.8 million?

Posted by: aishling at April 10, 2009 1:16 PM

The Park Place house was reduced again to $1.9M before going off the market.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/227670-house-287-park-place-prospect-heights-brooklyn

Posted by: Smudge at April 10, 2009 1:17 PM

MR - are you saying you offered the seller on the WT house $899K and they didn't bite?
ridiculous on their part!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: gemini10 at April 10, 2009 1:32 PM

The Bond Street house is a short block from some projects that can be very dangerous at night (I have a good friend who lives very close to this place and I have heard shootings, have been threatened by groups of people out looking for trouble, etc). I frankly don't think I would agree to live there for free, but that's just my own personal view. Also, the Bond Street place is in mid-contruction (someone who ran out of money mid-reno, presumably). I admit that I haven't actually looked at the place, but can anyone put forward a serious argument for why this place should sell for over a million dollars?

Posted by: lechacal at April 10, 2009 1:33 PM

150 bond is just a shell? if so, I'll wait patiently at $700k.

Kidding aside, shells are only for developers now. It takes way too much time and cash for a regular buyer to afford or want to deal with it.

Seller might as well just sit on it for better market conditions cause there's no real sign seller willing to make the needed big price cut to move it.

Posted by: more4less at April 10, 2009 1:39 PM

No reason to call the house on Albemarle Terrace Victorian Flatbush, as it is in the Albemarle-Kenmore Terraces Historic District, a section all to itself, designated a historic district in 1978: http://tinyurl.com/ctfw9o.

These houses were designed by Slee & Bryson, who were possibly chosen by the developer of the site after the success of their work at 23-49 Midwood St. in PLG.

And the reason this house is off the market is that its owner rented it out in November, wisely choosing to hold onto it.

Posted by: babs at April 10, 2009 1:40 PM

The Albemarle terrace house is actually not surrounded by "Soviet-style apartment block" buildings. The majority of the buildings near that house are pre-War buildings with good bones. Many of these buildings unfortunately have not been kept in good repair. The problem is that Albemarle-Terrace which is a historic district, is cut off from the rest of "Victorian Flatbush" and PLG for that matter. The west facing homes back onto the commercial properties on Flatbush Avenue and some of the north facing houses look out onto the Dutch Reformed Church cemetary.

When these houses were built, there were homes of various styles - Arts & Crafts, Queene Anne's, etc... where those apartment buildings now stand and there was even a country club, hence the street name "Tennis Court" which connected the now isolated enclave to the rest of Victorian Flatbush.

Posted by: Chosen at April 10, 2009 1:42 PM

OK, soviet-style was a bit harsh... but other than the little historic enclaves, this part of Flatbush is lacking a bit of the "charm" one would want for a million bucks... Or am I wrong? If you are going to pay a million dollars for a small house, you want to be surrounded by low-income, badly maintained apartment blocks?

(BTW, just because they are "pre-war" doesn't mean they're not big ugly, charmless buildings.)

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=2117+Albemarle+Terrace,+Brooklyn,+NY+11226&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=41.089062,68.730469&ie=UTF8&ll=40.648769,-73.95921&spn=0.009638,0.01678&z=16&iwloc=A&layer=c&cbll=40.648741,-73.959704&panoid=xodQNLpN6MDD7aaO00dQsA&cbp=12,263.8177499134886,,0,-19.974424552429664

Posted by: tybur6 at April 10, 2009 1:53 PM

"For those who got into the whole "team bear" and "team bull" thing: It has now been several weeks straight of very bearish news. "

Thank you Captain Oblivious! Wow what we would do with you?!

"But there are almost no self-congratulatory posts by the bears trying to rub the bulls' noses in the news."

** The What grabs the back of the Bull's head and smashes it in the pile of Doo Doo!***

" don't think most of the bears are the heartless jerks they are sometimes made out to be (a few notable exceptions like cornerbodega aside)."

Me me me!!! I'm a "heartless jerk" too!

What can we say? The news is not bearish, it's down right frighting!!! This is the collapse of the Mutant Asset Bubble and you better start to embrace it!

"Comment: No good news here."

The Asshat in Charge is starting to get it, you better also...

The What (Skittles at the open houses)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at April 10, 2009 1:55 PM

Actually, Chosen, I though I'd read recently that the Tennis Club still exists. Here's the article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/01/nyregion/01metjournal.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss.

Posted by: babs at April 10, 2009 1:56 PM

"No Good News" for who...sellers who either bought years ago and are unrealistically in the black, or bought too late and foolishly overpaid.

Please.

What's this horsebleep about feeling bad that prices are coming down to sustainable levels that ordinary dual 6-figure income earning families can consider.

Barf.

Posted by: brandedmatt at April 10, 2009 2:09 PM

Lechacal wrote:

"For those who got into the whole "team bear" and "team bull" thing: It has now been several weeks straight of very bearish news. But there are almost no self-congratulatory posts by the bears trying to rub the bulls' noses in the news. I don't think most of the bears are the heartless jerks they are sometimes made out to be (a few notable exceptions like cornerbodega aside). I actually think this site is remarkable for the general civility of the discourse."

You are right. Several weeks of 6-month open house updates have been in line with the mainstream line of team bear thought. And you are right about civility and the absence of nose-rubbing in this thread, until 1:55, of course. These are troubling times and there are so many different tea leaves to read.

Posted by: slopefarm at April 10, 2009 2:11 PM

Hhmm it is certainly not the end of the world but prices are coming down as they should...nice and slowly.

CWB, we agree WT has good bones but that facade is underwhelming and no amount of staging can fix that. This house simply cannot be worth more than $800k max in our opinion.

Lechacal 150 Bond is actually in a good location and quite isolated from the projects. Those garages look really good too but the price will need to be adjusted by @ least another $500k downwards.

Posted by: pierre de taille at April 10, 2009 2:11 PM

No tybur6, you are not wrong. I would not want to pay a million dollars for a small house. Neither would I want to pay a million dollars to live in a Brown house attached on both sides to someone elses right up the block from the projects although I can appreciate the beauty of such homes.

Again not wrong in that Pre-war doesn't mean they're not big and ugly but in the case of the buildings near Albemarle Terrace as I stated in my previous post, the majority of these building have good bones. I have been inside of many of these apartments and to my amazement, much of the original details in both the buildings and apartments still remain. They are in dire need of some sprucing up though. There are a few soviet-style buildings on Ocean Avenue and one or two of the East streets which were built by the Trumps or Lefraks in the 60's but they are in the minority.

Posted by: Chosen at April 10, 2009 2:12 PM

Thanks Brandedmatt!! Could not agree more!

This a great news!! And what would be even better news is if the prices kept falling and falling to where they *should* be. I've posted enough so it's clear what I mean by that.

It really is interesting to think that folks with a family income of gobs and gobs of money could actually start to afford a reasonable home... rather than a 1-1/2 bedroom starter co-op.

Posted by: tybur6 at April 10, 2009 2:14 PM

Thanks Babs. I forgot about this article. Yes a club does still exist with several of the the tennis courts still intact but as you can imagine it is now only a glimmer of its former self. I've played there several times before and I support it because of the work they do in the community but of course I much rather use the courts at the Parade Grounds which is a much better facility.

Posted by: Chosen at April 10, 2009 2:30 PM

NP tybur.....just tryin to keep it in perspective for people who were responsible, saved a lot of money for years, have no debt and just want some space to raise their family in.

There *should* be a serious premium to live here. No dount about it.

But somewhere along the way we lost all sense of proportion when someone who has the finances, credit history and job to afford that premium is asked to take enormous risk to purchase a reasonable townhouse.

Posted by: brandedmatt at April 10, 2009 2:30 PM

And then there are "Last Week's Biggest Sales" for Team Bull.
Lots of junk never sells, even in the height of the market.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 10, 2009 2:42 PM

This feature picked four houses, and NONE of them are doing well.

Last Week's Biggest Sales gets to pick the best data from all of Brooklyn.

Which seems like a more realistic picture?

Posted by: SnarkSlope at April 10, 2009 2:53 PM

lechacal wrote: The Bond Street house is a short block from some projects that can be very dangerous at night (I have a good friend who lives very close to this place and I have heard shootings, have been threatened by groups of people out looking for trouble, etc). I frankly don't think I would agree to live there for free, but that's just my own personal view.

are you kidding me? "very dangerous"? really? your description is insane. this property is just two blocks off of the bergen stop of the F train, across the street from a bodega that's open 'til 11pm, and a block from a beloved neighborhood bar that is busy until 4am. aside from smith or court, i find bergen from court to bond to be one of the safer blocks in the neighborhood to be walking alone at night because of the sheer number of people around.

i know i'm beating a dead horse, but the attitude about any property within blocks from the projects on this site is outlandish.

Posted by: ms_boerum at April 10, 2009 2:57 PM

surprised nobody has turned up their nose at this whole lot because the houses are 'tiny'. Largest only 2500sq ft.
OMG - how can rich people like us Brownstoners live in such prison cells.
here is link to interesting article on how ungreen ( no matter how environmentally conscious pretend to be) our current oversized brownstone lifestyle (or aspirations) is:
http://www.oasisdesign.net/faq/green4000ft2home.htm

Posted by: Petebklyn at April 10, 2009 3:00 PM

pierre - that's a good point. It's not exactly the cutest exterior in the history of Brooklyn. Curb appeal means a lot.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at April 10, 2009 3:00 PM

What isn't selling may not be selling for many different reasons. What has sold, has sold and that's about as real a confirmation as you can get. Although a member of Team Bull, I believe that many prices are unrealistic but that was also the case when I bought in 2007. I also sold something at the same time and I sold it at a realistic price. All I know is what I see in sales prices and that is that many brownstones throughout Brooklyn are still selling in this environment. Some go close to ask, and some don't. But for those who think that the market as a whole (as opposed to a few individual places) is going to 50% or less of peak prices, I wish them a long happy life of renting.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 10, 2009 3:14 PM

Glad to hear you got my note, lechacal. I think the civility is due to the fact that, whoever the winners and losers are as a result of NY RE prices correcting, the broader crisis affects us all.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at April 10, 2009 3:19 PM

Glad to hear you got my note, lechacal. I think the civility is due to the fact that, whoever the winners and losers are as a result of NY RE prices correcting, the broader crisis affects us all.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at April 10, 2009 3:21 PM

Sorry for double post! (computer snafu)

Posted by: Miss Muffett at April 10, 2009 3:23 PM

"And then there are "Last Week's Biggest Sales" for Team Bull.
Lots of junk never sells, even in the height of the market."

admits dibs, the holder of a property that is the very definition of speculative junk

Posted by: cornerbodega at April 10, 2009 3:32 PM

Petebklyn, isn't reusing the housing stock that is already available and near public transportation more "green" than building new?

Posted by: Chosen at April 10, 2009 3:48 PM

"And then there are "Last Week's Biggest Sales" for Team Bull. Lots of junk never sells, even in the height of the market."

This feature isn't titled "Lots of Junk, Six Months Later". They're properties that were considered interesting or appealing enough to select out of all the open houses on a given date. And they still haven't sold after six months.

Posted by: Smudge at April 10, 2009 4:18 PM

"MR - are you saying you offered the seller on the WT house $899K and they didn't bite?
ridiculous on their part!!!!!!!!!!!!"

No, you misunderstood me. I"m not in the market, I just stopped in the open house to look.

Posted by: MR at April 10, 2009 4:55 PM

I think the argument that a list of the four biggest sales each week is a good indication of the broader market has been pretty thoroughly refuted in other posts. I can't remember exactly who said it or the exact words, but I think the best response was along the following lines:

"Boy, the job market is really bad. 90% of the people who were looking for work six months ago still haven't found a job."

"Nonsense! The job market is in great shape! 100% of the people who found jobs last week found jobs!"

DIBS, I know you are smarter than that and I suspect you are putting that argument forward just to bait the bears.

Posted by: lechacal at April 10, 2009 5:34 PM

Not to poke a sleeping dog, but of course the metric changes every time more evidence is introduced that the market is declining. To review: This will be worth 8 million in ten years; I know a couple on UWS sold their two bedroom for five million; I know plenty of people in the arts who make nearly seven figures; prices will level off, but never decline; oh, they'll soften, but not more than 10-15%; and now we're at: Oh, some houses will go down 40%, but not the houses that don't --or didn't --or something like that.

The nicest houses in Brooklyn will hold up fine until the fall. Then you will see massive prime loan defaults and foreclosures touch even Olympus. The very nicest houses in Brooklyn, and I'll bet you a beer, Dave, will be selling at half off peak comps by Q1 '10, period.

Posted by: Whuh at April 10, 2009 5:39 PM

"DIBS, I know you are smarter than that and I suspect you are putting that argument forward just to bait the bears."

Oh no Dave is a F**** Retard! He believes that crap!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at April 10, 2009 6:42 PM

"The nicest houses in Brooklyn will hold up fine until the fall. Then you will see massive prime loan defaults and foreclosures touch even Olympus. The very nicest houses in Brooklyn, and I'll bet you a beer, Dave, will be selling at half off peak comps by Q1 '10, period."

And we will be in a world wide financial meltdown! The shockwave from the Mutant Asset Bubble is going to be spectacular!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at April 10, 2009 6:44 PM

"I think the argument that a list of the four biggest sales each week is a good indication of the broader market has been pretty thoroughly refuted in other posts. I can't remember exactly who said it or the exact words, but I think the best response was along the following lines:

"Boy, the job market is really bad. 90% of the people who were looking for work six months ago still haven't found a job."

"Nonsense! The job market is in great shape! 100% of the people who found jobs last week found jobs!"

DIBS, I know you are smarter than that and I suspect you are putting that argument forward just to bait the bears."

Sad, but Dibs is really as stupid as he seems. No pretending there. 11217 is right up there with him, hes just more passive.

Posted by: cornerbodega at April 10, 2009 10:01 PM

Down goes brownstone Brooklyn!!! Down goes brownstone Brooklyn!!!

"This feature isn't titled 'Lots of Junk, Six Months Later'. They're properties that were considered interesting or appealing enough to select out of all the open houses on a given date. And they still haven't sold after six months."

Brilliant PWNING. I love how fear mirrors greed. We're all in deep doo doo because of the grand scheme things but we will recover some year, some decade. When we do, these prices will still be hanging around their inflation-adjusted lows, prime for the bottom-feed.

Team Bear We Go Hard...We Go Hard...

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at April 10, 2009 11:25 PM

NYC real estate prices (including prices in both Manhattan and Brooklyn) probably have another 50% to fall before things start to stabilize.

There's still no sane relationship between sales prices and rents. The discrepancy is totally outrageous, and it's the clearest sign that the local real estate market is still high on crack.

I've been repeating myself for years now, and I'll keep repeating myself until monthly mortgage payments at least roughly approximate rents -- taking into account the savings buyers gain through mortgage interest tax deductions, and the small premium for pride of ownership (aka the possibility of future price appreciation).

Posted by: IronBalls at April 12, 2009 6:25 PM

WOW...all kinds of shit being attributed to me that I didn'y post.

Is English not your first language cornholedinthebodega???

The bitterness in the tone of the Team Bear members is really frightening. I hope they're not all living in their cars!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 8:54 AM

"The bitterness in the tone of the Team Bear members is really frightening."

What's to be bitter about? Rents and prices are slowly but surely getting annhiliated. I think that's what REALLY frightens you. How's your City Center holding(s) doing?

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at April 13, 2009 9:17 AM

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April 10, 2009

Open House Picks: Six Months Later

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