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April 20, 2009
House of the Day: 743 Eastern Parkway

Describing this house at 743 Eastern Parkway in Crown Heights as being "near the Brooklyn Museum" is a bit of a stretch but it's still kinda interesting, we think. There are two parking spots in the front driveway and a legal professional office on the ground floor for income generation. The two upper floors are currently configured as two separate apartments but there's no reason they couldn't be connected to make an owner's duplex. There's a surprising amount of original detail left in the house as well. Asking price: $650,000. Good buy?
743 Eastern Parkway [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
So a pic of the rear fire escape but not of the bathroom or kitchen? And no floorplan. Come on lazy ass, work a bit harder. The seller's not getting his money's worth from this lazy ass clueless broker.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 20, 2009 1:23 PM
Oooh, very pretty. Price is low. Probably needs work. Not on an express stop. But most of all, if there's a doctor's office, will the buyer have to put down 25 percent because it's "commercial" property?
Posted by: mopar at April 20, 2009 1:25 PM
DIBS - I thought the same thing
like -wow, what a great fire escape, phew! am glad I got me one of those now...
I think Corcoran are now beginning to hire the Century 21 rejects...
I wouldn't pay more than $500K for this
Posted by: gemini10 at April 20, 2009 1:27 PM
It's closer to the Children's Museum, but walkable to the Brooklyn Museum and the Botanic Gardens. Mopar, it probably does need work but it has leaded glass door built ins! It's close enough to the subway though. Will you be looking at it?
Posted by: bxgrl at April 20, 2009 1:28 PM
Maybe they meant near the Brooklyn Children's Museum. Looks like it could be nice but can't tell much from the pictures.
Posted by: etson at April 20, 2009 1:31 PM
Many of these dwellings on Eastern prkway sold for an average of $370K in 2003/2004. They are not worth more than that today.
Posted by: stringer at April 20, 2009 1:34 PM
Seems like nice house.. Put a few dollars into it and what a gem you would have.... Locations is not too bad. I always wanted to see a Eastern Parkway house...
Posted by: Amzi Hill at April 20, 2009 1:35 PM
stringer...gold sold for less than $400 per oz back then and now it's almost $900. Is it too not worth more than it was then??
Please, enlighten us.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 20, 2009 1:39 PM
They had me at the pink cabinets. I don't care how much work it needs or where it's located. I'm a sucker for pink.
Posted by: rh at April 20, 2009 1:41 PM
no pic of the kitchen and bathrooms, either the agent is lazy or its in horrible condition.
Oh wait its corcoran, probably a little of both.
Posted by: Xander Crews at April 20, 2009 1:43 PM
Silver peaked at $54/oz in 1980.
It's around $12/oz now.
Funny thing about bubbles...
Posted by: SnarkSlope at April 20, 2009 1:45 PM
Does it have any yard, or just the parking pads? And for the experts out there, if a place contains mixed commercial/residential space, what's involved in changing it back to all residential.
Posted by: Minmin at April 20, 2009 1:46 PM
it looks like easter barfed on all those walls
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at April 20, 2009 1:51 PM
quote:
It's closer to the Children's Museum, but walkable to the Brooklyn Museum and the Botanic Gardens.
okay how is this even a plus? all three of those places suck
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at April 20, 2009 1:52 PM
Yeah, Dave! And in 2004, Banks were giving away money, you could flip your properties over to Wall street buyers, and unemployement was a European thing...Be happy if you cashed out but stop dreaming pal, people don't speculate over real estate like they do with gold or the stock market anymore...
Posted by: stringer at April 20, 2009 1:55 PM
Rob!
Get.it.together.
yes the place looks like the easter bunny lived in it
but the BBG and Bklyn museum friggin rock!
Posted by: gemini10 at April 20, 2009 1:56 PM
They will again someday, stringer. Its that kind of attitude that makes contrarians rich.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 20, 2009 1:57 PM
Even if I am on Team Bear, this is not a lot of money for a big house in a not unlivable location.
Agree with G10 - BBG and Museum are great, and might as well throw in the Library for good measure.
Posted by: the chicken at April 20, 2009 2:00 PM
Well Dave, i believe i have many good years ahead of me before i see a recovery in this market. in the mean time, i'd rather use my $150K downpayment to specultate in a market that offer a better return than the plummeting real estate market.
If i'm listening to you, i know i'm just lightning my 150k money in fire... Your bullish arguments don't work on me, try with someone else...
Posted by: stringer at April 20, 2009 2:04 PM
If the price comes down enough, I'd expect an enterprising Lubavitcher to make a one-family of it for the proximity to 770.
Posted by: phbalanced at April 20, 2009 2:04 PM
I actually think that yellow is almost working. Almost.
Posted by: Nomi at April 20, 2009 2:05 PM
I pass here almost every day walking my dog. The place was clearly built as a doctor's residence, with space for a ground-floor office - the rectangular panels framed in black above the doorway are friezes; each display a caduceus decorated in bas-reliefs. It's really a good location, not "near" the Musuem, but only a 5-10 minute walk straight up the parkway. Next door is a Hasidic dorm that is not very attractive in front, and the house itself need work just based on the outside, but the location is great and the people around here are friendly (I know that as I live not far away). Two doors down going west is the headquarters of the Vulcan Society (black firefighters group). I agree the color outside is bad but that could easily be changes. To me, the parking space is a great amenity on a major street (parkway, actually). The house also has second-floor terrace from where you can leisurely observe the West Indian Day carnival. It's a good deal based on what I know.
Posted by: East New York at April 20, 2009 2:10 PM
Many of these dwellings on Eastern prkway sold for an average of $370K in 2003/2004. They are not worth more than that today.
Posted by: stringer at April 20, 2009 1:34 PM
With that logic I'll be sure to heed your every word and take all my investment advice from you.
If you're using a downpayment to speculate in the stock market you're far more stupid than I thought.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 20, 2009 2:10 PM
rob- maybe you should actually go to one of those places before you make pronouncements. The Museum and the Botanic gardens are world class, and the Children's Museum is considered to be immensely innovative and inspirational. The B'klyn Museum's collections rival those of the Met.
Posted by: bxgrl at April 20, 2009 2:10 PM
That's crazy talk, bxgrl. ;-)
Posted by: SnarkSlope at April 20, 2009 2:16 PM
"The Museum and the Botanic gardens are world class, and the Children's Museum is considered to be immensely innovative and inspirational. The B'klyn Museum's collections rival those of the Met."
All true.
Posted by: East New York at April 20, 2009 2:20 PM
"okay how is this even a plus? all three of those places suck"
Consider the source.
Posted by: East New York at April 20, 2009 2:22 PM
bxgrl - I don't think Rob's going to recognize the value of the Met either. You can't buy cheap 40s there. :)
Posted by: cwbuecheler at April 20, 2009 2:22 PM
snark- i was lucky enough to have had a temproary position at the Brooklyn Museum for a special exhibition of their costume collection. I got to see behind the scenes and parts of their collections that are so incredible it makes your eyes water.
Posted by: bxgrl at April 20, 2009 2:25 PM
What and idiot i am! Are you telling me I shouldn't have bought 15,000 share from Citygroup when they were at $1.25 last month and sold them at over $3 a few weeks ago? I'm glad i didn't listen to you... Many thanks, but once again, i'll pass on your advices. You suck at it!
Posted by: stringer at April 20, 2009 2:26 PM
stringer you jackass...you should have bought the options. mine went from $0.05 to $0.58. You suck at trying to buy stuff at the bottom. Probably at calling the bottom of the RE market as well. Amateur!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 20, 2009 2:28 PM
bxgrl - that must have been very cool. I only make it to the Brooklyn Museum a few times per year, but I've seen some excellent exhibitions there. Gilbert & George, Murakami, Ghada Amer, and Basquiat come immediately to mind.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at April 20, 2009 2:34 PM
I know it's kind of tacky, but I like the front parking area. It would be so convenient. Although this is not the most prestigious of addresses, it seems like a solid value if the house is in decent condition and if you can negotiate another ten or fifteen percent off the price.
Posted by: mcKenzie at April 20, 2009 2:36 PM
Gilbert & George
blah overrated
Murakami,
no clue
Ghada Amer
no clue
Basquiat
warhol dingleberry
im sorry but i find people who claim to love museums really dont like them they just pretend cuz it's a cultured thing to like. (and i work in the industry btw so im not just talking out of my butthole)
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at April 20, 2009 2:50 PM
That's ridiculous, rob. I just saw the Bonnard show at the Met. That was a once in a life time experience. Some of those painting are almost never seen. Those paintings, his late paintings, are among the greatest paintings of the 20th century. I'm a painter. Bonnard's work has changed my life.
Posted by: Nomi at April 20, 2009 2:57 PM
bonnard was a pervert who molested his wife when she was disabled. (seriously). he's the one who did all the bathtub pics of her right?
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at April 20, 2009 3:00 PM
Only phbalanced noted the most prominant thing about this house: proximity to Lubavitch world HQ. If you can tear this down and build 'student housing' under the Community Facility bulk (an old trick), you might really have something.
Unfortunately, saying that the Brooklyn Museum's collections rival the Metropolitan's won't make it so.
Posted by: Sparafucile at April 20, 2009 3:02 PM
Brownstoner:
The house is a shambles but if brought back (first, by getting rid of the parking pad!) would be a sweet spot on the parkway -- one of my favorite places when I grew up in Crown Heights during the 50's.
The width. The greenery. For a little kid, the imposing houses and apartment buildings. And best of all, the museum, gardens, and park at the end.
I lived all the way over on Pacific Street between Nostrand and New York Avenues and -- for the naysayers posting here -- all of the parkway's amenities were handy and definitely perceived as part of my neighborhood.
The parkway's best season? Winter, when on snow-covered days I'd drag my toboggan to Prospect Park, picking up pals along the way. By the time we hit the hills there'd be twelve or fifteen of us, unescorted by our parents, crashing down the slopes until twilight, when we'd head back on the parkway, my little brother and I the last to hit home.
No thoughts about distance or time or the cold. Just pure unalloyed pleasure.
How we envied the kids who lived in the big, elevator apartments along the thoroughfare. They had everything, as far as we were concerned, most especially the children's reading room at the library. And the parkway taught us a bit of history, too. The trees leading to the library each had a plaque dedicated to World-War-I dead -- are they still there? -- connecting us by names of the fallen to this great event and giving even the happiest days a poignant moment.
One wag once wrote that if this were a just world, Eastern Parkway would be the city's best address.
For a little kid, it was.
Nostalgic on Park Avenue
Posted by: NOP at April 20, 2009 3:07 PM
No, sparafucile- but the facts do. And the concensus of museum professionals who do know say so.
rob- you're hopeless. Maybe you feel that way about museums however there are millions of people who don't. Since you've never been specific about what you do its hard for anyone to take your comments as to being "in the field" seriously. And if you are, I can't imagine why you are.
Posted by: bxgrl at April 20, 2009 3:12 PM
NOP- again, another lovely post. You and MM need to write more.
Posted by: bxgrl at April 20, 2009 3:13 PM
"One wag once wrote that if this were a just world, Eastern Parkway would be the city's best address."
The past is great and all, but it's pretty nice right now, in my opinion. It's nicely landscaped and is in MUCH better shape that when I was a kid in the 1960s and 1970s. It makes a great summer/fall stroll. Best of all, it's not "hot" or "gentrified" of overly populated by hipsters.
Posted by: East New York at April 20, 2009 3:15 PM
I would totally hit the chick agent, as for the house not so much.
Posted by: Xander Crews at April 20, 2009 3:15 PM
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 20, 2009 2:10 PM
If you're using a downpayment to speculate in the stock market you're far more stupid than I thought.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 20, 2009 2:28 PM
you should have bought the options. mine went from $0.05 to $0.58.
Dave, you're a cunt! Calling people stupid to buy in the stockmarket while you're doing the exact same thing! Get lost, you're a freaking moron!
Posted by: stringer at April 20, 2009 3:16 PM
"Only phbalanced noted the most prominant thing about this house: proximity to Lubavitch world HQ."
And that's a problem because...?
Posted by: East New York at April 20, 2009 3:17 PM
stringer...i'm not using a potential downpayment to speculate with. I'm using extra capital. There's a BIG difference. You speculate with your downpayment you're gonna get screwed. If you don't understand that then we can all see who the moron is.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 20, 2009 3:21 PM
Give me a heat gun and 500 gallons of paint stripper, and 5 years, and I'll bring it back to life...
Seriously, Abby Dupree is hot.
The house? Think someone will get a good deal, and the selling price won't have a 6 as the first digit. But that parking spot could prove me wrong. I think off-street parking is worth 50 to 200k, depending on the neighborhood and property.
Posted by: Bolder at April 20, 2009 3:22 PM
I know people who would kill for off-street parking.
Posted by: bxgrl at April 20, 2009 3:24 PM
> "im not just talking out of my butthole"
Oh, but you are, Blanche, you are. Incessantly.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at April 20, 2009 3:25 PM
I worked at the Met many years ago and was lucky to see what visitors don't. I'm still impressed with the Brooklyn Museum.
Posted by: rh at April 20, 2009 3:30 PM
>"bonnard was a pervert who molested his wife when she was disabled. (seriously). he's the one who did all the bathtub pics of her right?"
Where are you getting that from? Are you sure you have the right person since you're not even sure who he is?
Regardless: His paintings changed my life. Not ALL people who go to museums are culture vultures.
Posted by: Nomi at April 20, 2009 3:32 PM
Who suggested that proximity to 770 Eastern Parkway is a problem? On the contrary, I'd think that Lubavitch Worldwide or affiliated organizations or individuals might be very interested in this property for educational/religious/hostel type use, or as a residence.
Posted by: Sparafucile at April 20, 2009 3:33 PM
Nomi...you never came to your party in the OT.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 20, 2009 3:33 PM
I've said this now three times in the past three days, kind of weird: I may sound like a Neandarthal but I think you only need to go to a museum like once a year at most. what really changes in six months? In fact, you only need to go once and then ever after only if there's a big show on someone you like.
Who put in the 900k estimate on sale price??
Posted by: infinitejester at April 20, 2009 3:35 PM
children museum is great. cant comment on other museum - havent gone in for eons already.
Here comes my usual line again - this ppty & location is not bad; just the price. At 500k, it would get my attention.
Posted by: more4less at April 20, 2009 3:42 PM
infinitejester - In all of the years that I've been going to the Met, there are still some corners I haven't seen. When visiting a museum, I hit a saturation point after 2, maybe 3 hours. After that I really can't take any more in. And the Met has changing exhibition in addition to the permanent collection, so there is always something interesting to see, no matter how often I go.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at April 20, 2009 3:42 PM
"> "im not just talking out of my butthole"
Oh, but you are, Blanche, you are. Incessantly."
Snark, did you just use "butthole" and "Blanche" in the same sentence? You are a cunning linguist.
As I commented in the Open Thread, sometimes I wonder if Rob just throws out bizarre comments for a reaction. Is it really possible for someone to think that the BBG, Brooklyn Museum and new Children's Museum "suck"?
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 20, 2009 3:42 PM
"On the contrary, I'd think that Lubavitch Worldwide or affiliated organizations or individuals might be very interested in this property for educational/religious/hostel type use, or as a residence."
If they are interested, I'm sure they'll make an offer. They already own a huge number of residential, commercial and cultural properties in the area, including some of the finest brownstones, Victorian townhouses and brick homes in all of Crown Heights. For the most part they are down-to-earth, laid-back neighbors.
Posted by: East New York at April 20, 2009 3:43 PM
Mr. Jester - At a very large, encyclopedic museum like the Metropolitan, you couldn't, or certainly wouldn't want to try to, see more than maybe 1/20th of what's displayed in one visit. You quickly reach overload. I think it's much better to spend a couple hours max in one or two galleries, take the time to soak it in, and leave while you can still remember what you saw.
I have a fried who used to volunteer as a docent at the American Museum of Natural History. He was frequently asked, "how long does it take to see the museum?" His response was you could do it in a month if you came every day.
Posted by: Sparafucile at April 20, 2009 3:44 PM
Snark, ditto your comment re: the Met at 3:42. I go there frequently, although unfortunately far less often than I used to since I moved, but always find new things to discover.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 20, 2009 3:45 PM
infinitejester- I don't go to museums as often as I want, but who can see everything in one day? And I like revisiting even the art I've seen many times because its inspiring and creative and who can get enough of art? You make going to the museum sound like a chore, not a joy.
Posted by: bxgrl at April 20, 2009 3:45 PM
I love art but I guess seeing it once makes it feel more special to me. Most museums I visit, I see the things I like in one day. I'm doing a staycation next week and going to a bunch - can't wait.
Posted by: infinitejester at April 20, 2009 3:55 PM
I had a wonderful day at the Met, a rainy day, more so than this one. I was there waiting for them to open, and saw all over the galleries I wanted to see. I spent time staring at many pieces which moved me. Then I ate at the cafeteria in the basement, and saw the other half. By 2 the corwds of students were punishing.
Posted by: infinitejester at April 20, 2009 4:02 PM
Oh no- I have to see art all the time. Art should be lived with, everyday. Now, eating birthday cake only once a year makes it special :-)
Posted by: bxgrl at April 20, 2009 4:02 PM
Hey jester, I'd like to recommend one of the smaller museums for your staycation: The Rubin.
- http://www.rmanyc.org/
It's a smallish museum with a focus on art of the Himalayan region. It's fantastic.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at April 20, 2009 4:04 PM
I don't like cake:). Psychology is weird.
Posted by: infinitejester at April 20, 2009 4:06 PM
My fav dead painter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Spencer
Posted by: infinitejester at April 20, 2009 4:08 PM
Thanks, Snark.
Posted by: infinitejester at April 20, 2009 4:10 PM
No problem, iJester. While I'm at it, I'll also recommend the Neue Gallerie. They focus on German and Austrian art, and right now they have an exhibition on Expressionism that I've been meaning to see:
- http://neuegalerie.org/main.html?langkey=english
Posted by: SnarkSlope at April 20, 2009 4:14 PM
RE: Brooklyn Museum
As a youngster, I remember reading a Hilton Kramer review of a Brooklyn Museum show in the Times. In it, he mentioned seeing a little kid walking through the Egyptian section, casually taking in the collection. "One of nature's aristocrats," Kramer wrote. The phrase burned itself into my small brain.
Independently and unescorted, the Brooklyn kid was making culture part of his every day life just as -- presumably -- the elite did back in the 50's.
That was the beauty of the Brooklyn. For neighborhood kids, it wasn't there for a once-in-a-lifetime pilgrimage, it was there for daily use. And it was free! No intimidating signs asking for "voluntary donations" that can put off younsters without pocket change.
Class trips, concerts, shelter from the rain, all provided by McKim Mead and White's magnificent building. How different a relationship we had with the city's great institutions -- the Brooklyn, the Met, Natural History, etc. -- than kids today. They were our living rooms!
And they taught us how to behave like young ladies and gentlemen in the very best possible way. By the quiet of their galleries. By their seriousness of purpose. By their gracious welcome to us. At no cost!
Of course there were the more formal times, too. As members, my parents would take me to openings when, suddenly, the museum was crowded (but still quiet) and the kind of easy frolic I'd enjoy on my own turned into introductions to the high-minded world of adults. (At one of these I was introduced to Jacob Lawrence, an acquaintance of theirs, whose Great Migration Series was on view in the American Galleries. The artist sat on a bench as if a kindly king on his throne, bending forward to shake my hand and introducing me to his beautiful wife, standing regally beside him. I stepped back thinking, man, artists have the best life! But more importantly, I saw that a flesh-and-blood person could create work worthy of hanging in a museum, creating an entirely different relationship between me and works of art.)
Now the museum is spiffed up but in deep trouble. All that jazzy new front to proclaim its public purpose. But kids of my generation didn't need to have its public purpose represented out front. We knew it was public because we were always welcome, just like Kramer's "aristocrat."
NOP
Posted by: NOP at April 20, 2009 4:17 PM
the brooklyn museum is excellent. wonderfully curated. the way that the exhibits are curated is worth the trip just to admire their thinking and taste. top top museum.
the new children's museum is fantastic. they've done a bang up job.
Posted by: wine lover at April 20, 2009 4:29 PM
I never quite forgave the Met for going so commercial but some of my best memories are of my dad taking me (just me and not my twin sister also) to the Met, sitting himself on a bench and telling me to go explore. It was heaven. I was maybe 10 and the guards didn't bother you so long as you were respectful and quiet. Well, it was hard to talk much when you were dragging your jaw along the floor.
Posted by: bxgrl at April 20, 2009 4:30 PM
So Bxgrl and Wine Lover, here's what a family should do:
Buy this house and integrate the Brooklyn and Childrens Museums into your kids' lives.
It'll be like living on the East Side near the Met, only better because the streets are full of Lubavitchers, Jamaicans and (gasp!) hipsters.
NOP
Posted by: NOP at April 20, 2009 4:39 PM
NOP, I love your posts.
I wonder if the listing agents now regret mentioning the proximity of the Brooklyn Museum, given the lack of discussion in this thread relating to the home itself.
bxgrl, I took my kids to the Met a couple of weekends ago and was quite surprised that, in addition to their standard favourites (the Temple of Dendur, Arms & Armor, musical instruments), they were also fascinated by the European Decorative Arts, particularly the Wrightsman Galleries. It's amazing how much there is for everyone to see.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 20, 2009 4:41 PM
Biff, you have kids?
I don't know why this surprises me, but I guess that's what I get for dozing off in class.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at April 20, 2009 4:45 PM
"I don't know why this surprises me, but I guess that's what I get for dozing off in class."
And that's what my wife got for dozing off in bed...
Snark, yes, although they don't like to admit they're mine. I've mentioned them in the Open Thread before but you must have missed it, given your tendency to focus on the more intelligent and entertaining posts.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 20, 2009 4:50 PM
> And that's what my wife got for dozing off in bed...
Dagnabbit, where's that "Instant Rimshot" link?
> "your tendency to focus on the more intelligent and entertaining posts."
Nah, it's probably just the narcolepsy.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at April 20, 2009 4:53 PM
My favorites have always been the Medieval rooms- I gasp everytime I see that Choir screen.
NOP- I wasn't able to have kids of my own but we made sure my niece and nephew went to the museums. It's astounding to see what a difference art makes in a child's life. Especially now that they are growing up and their career choices have been so profoundly affected by art. My brother-in-law is a photographer/printmaker with a lot of shows and awards under his belt. My niece and nephew didn't have a chance of escaping art, one way or another.
Posted by: bxgrl at April 20, 2009 4:53 PM
Actually the Broolyn Museum has an incredible collection of American impressionist paintings as well as all manner of nineteenth century paintings including Hudson River School, and portraits. Incredible portraits!
Unfortunately nineteenth century American paintings has been relegated to the "not cool" storage areas of the museum by the current (semi-loony) museum president.
The decorative arts and furniture colections are also mind blowing. All closed. very little on display to the public.
Once the museum decides to actually show its collection and not be embarrased by the fact that it is mostly historic American material culture, the city will be impressed anew by the collection.
Posted by: mcKenzie at April 20, 2009 4:55 PM
mcKenzie- very true. They began doing that in the late 80's because they thought it needed spiffing up to compete with the met. They used the entry space for some great exhibits but the crowning achievments was the doggy doo exhibit (as we called it). Huge black paper mache...er...sculptures that hung from the ceiling looking for all the world like a rain of dog poop.
Posted by: bxgrl at April 20, 2009 5:06 PM
bxgirl
it's heartbreaking.
Last year there was a beautiful exhibit at the Brooklyn Museum of French and American Impressionist paintings.
Many of the French paintings were on loan but many others were owned by the museum. All of the American paintings were owned by the museum. The exhibit was there for a couple of months and is now on a year or two-year's long tour of many of the top museums in US. The power types at the museum think that Brooklynites will not be interested in such European-centric art. They are mistaken I believe.
Posted by: mcKenzie at April 20, 2009 5:19 PM
I totally agree. I believe people are hungry for art and once a museum forgets that and mistakes trendiness for quality, we've lost. I have the feeling they would sell off all of it to become a media-savvy art gallery specializing in shock value and mediocre, but trendy work. Because they think it's popular. I can't wait for the digital museum- see all your favorite paintings in the kiosk. Kindle for artwork. Who needs to see it in real life, the web site shows you everything. NOT.
Posted by: bxgrl at April 20, 2009 5:28 PM
Shouldn't this house be $3 million, since it must be in walking distance of a synagogue? Can I vote that on the widget?
Posted by: mopar at April 20, 2009 5:56 PM
Great discussion about the house, the neighborhood, and art. Sorry I missed most of it. NOP, your memories are priceless! I can't believe it - not one comment about crime and safety.
I have to go back to several museums. It's been too long. This conversation has me eager to go.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at April 20, 2009 6:16 PM
Yeah, me too.
The trendy crap in the art world is just like the trendy crap anywhere -- that doesn't throw the rest of it into some kind of historical dustbin. I hate most contemporary art and think twentieth-century art theorists kind of killed the entire thing, but at the same time, a good oil painting -- from any era -- is a good oil painting. Worth seeing.
Okay, now I am having a fantasy that we will buy this house and go to the Children's Museum everyday, the Brooklyn a few times a week. I can almost envision it... except for that lack of a downpayment and mortgage.
Posted by: Heather at April 20, 2009 6:33 PM
Ohhhhhh, Heather- that's what I was missing. The downpayment and the mortgage. Rats. Well I do have the consolation of being able to walk to the Childrens Museum which is only a couple of blocks from me. The Brooklyn is a little bit of a hike but really well within walkable distance.
I agree with you about most contemporary art. i happen to love folk and outsider art, and medieval and Northern renaissance art. At the risk of sounding like a barbarian i have to say Jackson Pollack 's work looks like a painter's dropcloth at the end of the day. On the other hand, I wouldn't kick a Mark Rothko out of bed :-). I never did understand (or maybe a better term is "accept") the concept of trends as a determinant for art. True art is ageless and transcendental.
Just always seemed to me that if we have to have the NYTimes art critic explain a work before we can understand it, there's something wrong with the artist's work. Too much contemporary work is deliberately obscure and more about shock than true expression. But that's just me.
Posted by: bxgrl at April 20, 2009 6:48 PM
"The B'klyn Museum's collections rival those of the Met."
even for the collection they sold to the met this year. awful long hike to manhattan now for the costume collection.
Posted by: bkn4life at April 20, 2009 6:51 PM
wow- I didn't hear about that. Is the whole ting gone? I knew that the directors never considered it very important (the more fools them) but - crap. Another Brooklyn treasure goes to Manhattan. F**k!!!!!
That's criminal- they had one of the world's most important collections of Charles James, Worth and Schapiarelli. And some of the rarer designers such as Pingat. I worked on the last major exhibition, the Opulent Era- I can't even begin to tell you how magnificent the Brooklyn museum collection was. But No museum director since 1988 thought it was important or even "art". Talk about your effete, impudent snobs.Brooklyn's loss all the way around.
Posted by: bxgrl at April 20, 2009 7:04 PM
Hey NOP as usual absolutely wonderful stories about Crown Heights and Brooklyn.
bxgrl and Heather your exchange is really inspiring and civilized...now will see if the missus can arrange a Brooklyn Museum visit for us over the weekend:)
BTW we saw Murakami exhibit and really liked it a lot..is that sacrilege? Ah:))
The house has potential but is not worth a penny over $500K today.
Posted by: pierre de taille at April 20, 2009 7:18 PM
they announced it under cover of night during the year end holidays.
i agree its a crime.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/16/arts/design/16muse.html?_r=1
there is a bit about a sham partnership. no discussion with the general public. no request for donations to care for it. abdication of resposibility. its like they dont work for us.
but is gone now. bastards.
bxgirl: i remember that exhibit. sticks with me today. still.
Posted by: bkn4life at April 20, 2009 7:23 PM
bkn4life- It was a beautiful exhibition. We even had new, specially sculpted mannequins made, each shaped for the different eras. I worked for a year on getting the costumes ready and then got horrible bronchitus and couldn't make the opening.
they shut the collection down right after the exhibit. Then they closed down the department. If I remember, they made a halfassed attempt to reopen the department but once they got rid of their legendary curator Ann Coleman, they lost the vision and the expertise that really made it a world class collection. Going up into the storerooms was walking with ghosts- it was an experience. It wasn't just costume-the textile collection was also unbelievable. I wonder what happened to that?
Posted by: bxgrl at April 20, 2009 8:08 PM
Bxgirl, we have similar tastes. I used to paint in egg tempera. Rothko's fine. I can even live with Rauschenberg and Johns, as long as you don't buy them for $10MM, which would be silly, since you could easily make them yourself.
I don't know, Pierre, I don't know who Murakami is. But art today... everyone has a schtick. And there's this concept that to be an artist is to be some kind of visionary... with an ideology. And a schtick. Did I spell that correctly? I think it's bad news to assume artists are smart... not really a job requirement.
Posted by: Heather at April 20, 2009 8:11 PM
heather...
unique=newsworthy
unique <> good
same problem exists in theater and dance as well as art.
Posted by: bkn4life at April 20, 2009 8:40 PM
egg tempera- now that is a medium I would LOVE to know how to work in. I envy you Heather! I agree with you on everything you said. I work in mixed media- drawing on materials that my mother used to give us to play with, and others that I jsut like. But when I draw, I use a quill point pen and ink. I think one of th reason I love folk art is because it is so honest- or used to be before it became a "style."
Posted by: bxgrl at April 20, 2009 8:59 PM
Heather:
Sure, if you can argue the price of this house to a level you can afford (and is reasonable in today's market), go for it.
But the beauty of Brooklyn for kids is that most of life's lessons are just outside the family's doors.
(And you don't have to move to Crown Heights to enjoy them!)
As I became an adult, I always found that people from Paris, Cairo, Mumbai, Shanghai, London, etc. shared with native Brooklynites a way of thinking and communicating that set us apart from other folks.
Heck, if you can slide between appreciating art at the Brooklyn Museum and trash-talking in nearby streets, you're prepared for almost any challenge.
Your children are lucky!
NOP
Posted by: NOP at April 20, 2009 10:23 PM
bxgrl, what a wonderful experience that must have been. Do you know where the collection came from? Did the curators go out and buy stuff or did it come from women in Brooklyn? Or both? Sorry if this is a stupid question.
Posted by: mopar at April 20, 2009 10:43 PM
It's not stupid at all. The costumes come from both places. Curators activley seek things out, and collectors or wealthy or famous women would donate clothes when they were finished wearing them. Wealthy society women would often change wardrobes every season and donate clothes to get a tax writeoff. Wealthy Victorian women didn't usually donate clothing except to poorer relatives or charity but so many of the gowns and outfits were so magnificent that they were kept until the descendents donated them because they were artifacts of their time as well as objects of great beauty.
Sometimes famous designers would donate pieces- they got great prestige. The Brooklyn Museum collection I beeive had pieces dating as far back as the 1500's. We even had a gown worn by the Empress Josephine. Then you had the accessories- the hats, the handbags, the parasols, the jewelry- the craftsmanship was so far above anything we see today.
There was also an incredible doll collection made after WW II from France to show its gratitude to the US. Famous French Designers like Dior, Chanel, etc. were given special wire doll forms and they created handmade one of a kind outfits for each. This collection travelled all over the US and I think the Brooklyn Museum's group was one of several such.
And yes- it was a truly wonderful experience!
Posted by: bxgrl at April 21, 2009 12:26 AM
"Murakami,
no clue
im sorry but i find people who claim to love museums really dont like them they just pretend cuz it's a cultured thing to like. (and i work in the industry btw so im not just talking out of my butthole)
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at April 20, 2009 2:50 PM"
Rob,
it's almost like you're wilfully being anti-culture.
I'm not particularly cultured but if I see something that is interesting or aesthetically pleasing, I'll look it up.
If you look up Takashi Murakami, you'll see that he is the most important japanese artist of the last decade and pioneer of the Superflat movement.
His most famous work is "my lonesome cowboy" which sold for $15m last year. Look that one up and you will see a naked 6 foot plastic statue making a lassoo out of his own semen. Art doesn't have to be boring...
Posted by: the chicken at April 21, 2009 4:51 AM
Watch this as a primer.
http://www.moca-la.org/murakami/#
What's particularly interesting is how insecure the artist seems to be - almost like his importance has been thrust upon him.
Posted by: the chicken at April 21, 2009 5:04 AM
Sigh. Wish I could see all that, bxgrl. Especially the insides of the gowns. I did once see a pair of 16th c pirate on display in the V&A. That gave me a thrill.
Posted by: mopar at April 21, 2009 8:50 AM
mopar- do you like vintage clothing? some of the Victorian clothing wasn't just sewn- it was literally engineered. I have never seen a custom tailored contemporary outfit fit anyone the way a Victorian dress could. They were pattern masters- I used to call them textile architecture and there was a real technology to how they were designed and constructed. You do have that today but not to their degree or with their finesse.
One thing that would surprise you- contmeporary designers, even the very famous ones- did nothing that was even close to the quality of 19th century clothing. I've seen the underpinnings of St. Laurent's, Mizrahis, Calvin Klein's, etc - the designer pieces, not the production lines. They are not even close to a Worth day dress.If you're ever interested, email me (MM has it)- I love old costumes and textiles- we can go to the Met (sigh....) and have a field trip. :-)
Posted by: bxgrl at April 21, 2009 9:14 AM
bxgrl, in a former life I have a textiles degree
Posted by: the chicken at April 21, 2009 9:18 AM
chicken- design? History? techn ology? I'm fascinated and now you have to tell me more! One of my past lives was to conserve and restore vintage and antique clothing which is how I got the Museum job for that final exhibition. I did most of my work for a famous Soho store (sadly, long gone now) and the wonderful thing is I got so much hands on experience, which interestingly enough was something most curators and conservators actually don't get, because they never deconstruct. SO tell me more!!!! ( Bklyn M. also had a huge swatch collection which I hope went to FIT).
Posted by: bxgrl at April 21, 2009 9:32 AM

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