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April 7, 2009

House of the Day: 45 Park Place

This federal townhouse at 45 Park Place in Park Slope is bound to turn a lot of heads. The living and bedrooms have exquisite period detail and the kitchen and bathrooms appear to have been attractively updated. The proximity to Fifth Avenue is increasingly positive as well. That said, it'll be interesting to see how this fares with an asking price of $2,395,000. Wonder what the wisdom of the masses will be when it comes to the appraisal votes!
45 Park Place [Brown Harris Stevens] GMAP P*Shark

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Beautiful. I'll happily take all their furniture too.

Posted by: mopar at April 7, 2009 1:25 PM

Nice job on the renovation. I don't like the lighting and the kitchen appears to have Formica countertops but otherwise looks well done. $2.2MM

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 7, 2009 1:26 PM

The octagonal window in the kitchen is a cool detail. Nice house. Good buy at 1.75.

Posted by: wasder at April 7, 2009 1:27 PM

LOTS of space, nice work on most of the rooms. Love the fact it's a triplex with the flexibility of a garden rental.

HATE the kitchen - YUCK!

I say they get anywhere between 2-2.1 mill

Posted by: gemini10 at April 7, 2009 1:31 PM

Nice but a little standard. No impressive woodwork; french doors off front parlor to hall are not original; depth -- at 38 ft. -- is a little less than most brownstones; garden floor would need $$ spent to convert to a rental. Aluminum not wood windows (+ ugly bars on front parlor windows) detract. Pretty furniture makes a good impression but you don't get to keep it. If this sounds picky, I'm just saying there's no real "wow" factor here. But certainly a good location. I'm also wondering if the overall lack of listings will help this move sooner than general market conditions would indicate. For those few serious buyers out there, there's not much to choose from in this area at this price point. So I'll go for $1.95-2.1m.

Posted by: 1929 at April 7, 2009 1:50 PM

not to be pedantic, but why is this Victorian-era house described as "federal"? Federal houses date to the 1800-1830 period. There are very few of these in Brooklyn. There are lots of them in Salem, Mass or Alexandria, Va.
This is an Italianatte house circa 1880. The scalloped cornice is a nice design feature.

Posted by: sam at April 7, 2009 1:54 PM

sam...brokers think everything brick is federal. Everything clapboard is a "farmhouse." A lot of brokers are Eurotrash so they have an excuse.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 7, 2009 1:56 PM

The location is a solid "B" not an "A". What is that next door?
No way they get near two million.
1.8 tops. really tops. Especially as the garden level is not income-producing. If the garden level were made into a separate apartment, the owners unit would only have two bathrooms.

Posted by: sam at April 7, 2009 2:02 PM

Very impressive Sam... Let the people know...

Posted by: Amzi Hill at April 7, 2009 2:04 PM

$1.25M

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at April 7, 2009 2:10 PM

Dave, thank you.
I do love the kistings for "farmhouses" on 18 foot lots. Farms were narrow in those days.

Posted by: sam at April 7, 2009 2:16 PM

Sam, Agree about the blanket "brick = federal" being annoying and inaccurate. But this house is probably a little older than 1880. Why? This part of Park Slope (the NW quadrant close to Flatbush and 5th Ave) was developed in the 1850s-70s before the center slope which constitutes the former Litchfield estate. Also by 1880 some of the interior details had changed including the design of the marble fireplace shown above. The scalloped cornice you point out is also an earlier feature. By 1880, the prevailing NeoGrec and Queen Anne styles would have dictated a more rectilinear design.

Posted by: 1929 at April 7, 2009 2:21 PM

I think what the widget is proving time after time is that the people who read this board assume that all asks are at least 25% inflated. Certainly I assume that when looking at asking prices, although in this case I shockingly came closer to BHO than the cheerleaders.

Posted by: wasder at April 7, 2009 2:28 PM

Who are the lunatics betting on the house selling a million dollars above ask?!

Posted by: cwbuecheler at April 7, 2009 2:34 PM

Also, I strongly disagree that this is a "B" location ... I can't think of anywhere in Brooklyn I'd rather live more than this area of north slope. You're an easy walk from a TON of subway options, you're around the corner from a grocery store, you've got innumerable dining/bar/retail options on fifth and a decent selection on 7th, not to mention being an easy walk to Vanderbilt in P-Heights, and you're far enough off flatbush to keep it quiet.

I'm also a fan of brick townhouses (though I like them even better if they have bay windows), and this one looks like it's in great shape. I'd love to own this place.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at April 7, 2009 2:41 PM

"Who are the lunatics betting on the house selling a million dollars above ask?!"

Not telling. But it starts with s....and ends with ebb.

Posted by: 11217 at April 7, 2009 2:42 PM

Wasder,

I had the same thought. The widget seems to come in consistently 20-25% below ask. Of course, that has always been the case in HOTD, even before the widget and even in the go-go days. No matter what the house or what the market, the wiki-wisdom of this site is always that the price is 20-25% too high. Of course, even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and I think this down market is that time of day.

Posted by: slopefarm at April 7, 2009 2:42 PM

"Also, I strongly disagree that this is a "B" location ... I can't think of anywhere in Brooklyn I'd rather live more than this area of north slope. You're an easy walk from a TON of subway options, you're around the corner from a grocery store, you've got innumerable dining/bar/retail options on fifth and a decent selection on 7th, not to mention being an easy walk to Vanderbilt in P-Heights, and you're far enough off flatbush to keep it quiet."

**
And ditto.

Posted by: 11217 at April 7, 2009 2:43 PM

"even a stopped clock is right twice a day"

Classic smoke 'n mirrors broker talk. I love it.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at April 7, 2009 2:45 PM

11217, it maybe an "A" location for you, but you don't have the money to buy this house. For most who have achieved a greter level of finanical success, I would suggest that this is a "B" location. A solid "B".
Besides, your ideal abode is a little monk's cell with a thirty watt lightbulb. This is a big, bourgeoise, conspicuous consumption house. Have you changed your ascetic principles?

Posted by: sam at April 7, 2009 2:49 PM

meh, too close to Flatbush. 1.5 mil.

Posted by: Biff Champion at April 7, 2009 2:52 PM

You missed the rest of my point, BHO, to make a cheap didactic score. I referred to the down market as "that time of day" meaning that the current market is exactly a time when everyone's ask is looking about 20-25% too high.

I am not involved in the real estate business in any way and have no real interest in what this particular house seels for. But how do you explain that, during the go-go years, the collective wisdom on this site was that houses were typically 20-25% overpriced, but actual sales prices typically hovered much closer to, if not above, ask? My point is merely to question what the widget is telling us about ourselves, as opposed to the house or the market.

Posted by: slopefarm at April 7, 2009 2:52 PM

No, I can't afford this place right now, Sam.

But I'm also probably 100 years younger than you.

Posted by: 11217 at April 7, 2009 2:52 PM

11217: LOL!

I think you are about a hundred years younger than me in emotional age!

Posted by: sam at April 7, 2009 3:07 PM

But you're probably well into your 30s. No time like the present to start.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 7, 2009 3:07 PM

Dave, You think he's in his thirties?
Holy crap!

Posted by: sam at April 7, 2009 3:09 PM

I'm barely in my 30's.

I love that a grown man just LOL'ed while making a comment about my emotional age.

Posted by: 11217 at April 7, 2009 3:09 PM

"For most who have achieved a greter level of finanical success, I would suggest that this is a "B" location. A solid "B"."

Because when people get rich, they stop wanting to be near bars, restaurants, stores, and public transportation dontcha know. All rich people, regardless of whom they are, want to live in an area like prospect park west and 3rd street, that's not near anything, so they can raise the families they're required to have in peace and solitude.

I'm pretty sure the people who spent millions to live in Park Slope North probably think it's an A location ... otherwise, they'd be living somewhere else.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at April 7, 2009 3:10 PM

I'm so curious why I'm getting the wrath of Sam on this one, when clearly other people said they thought the location was superior also.

All I said was ditto.

I'd prefer you spend your energy on the other thread Sam where you attempted (poorly) to insult my intelligence, I proved you wrong, and you have said nothing.

Posted by: 11217 at April 7, 2009 3:12 PM

"I'm barely in my 30's."

That's what young people say when they don't want to admit that they are no longer in their 20s.

I hope you're still not wearing a backpack!!!

LOL

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 7, 2009 3:14 PM

Don't even bother CW.

Homes on North Slope blocks routinely sell for more than pretty much anywhere else in Park Slope (except maybe 3rd street, which is special in its own way). If you take the named streets and compared them with the numbered, I'm fairly certain you'd see that prices in the North are higher.

If that doesn't have a direct correlation on what people find to be an "A" location, I don't know what does.

Posted by: 11217 at April 7, 2009 3:16 PM

I just noticed a typo on my prediction. I meant 1.8 mill (which is what I entered as my appraisal). Damn "5" and "8" are too close on the right keypad. I can appreciate there are many nice amenities nearby, as CWB points out, but ideally I would prefer not be so close to Flatbush and I also prefer east of 6th Ave in the Slope.

Posted by: Biff Champion at April 7, 2009 3:19 PM

I think Bed Stuy is an "A" location because of the value and size you get for the money. Plus, it is very quiet relative to other parts of brooklyn that people consider "prime." Stuyvesant heights is likely yo continue to appreciate faster than other parts of Brooklyn.

I'm close to everything in Brooklyn because I take a car service to & from.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 7, 2009 3:21 PM

Bay Ridge is really far from everything. I don't even think we're part of Brooklyn.

That said.

A $2M MUST have a master bathroom, right off the master bedroom, not through another bedroom.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at April 7, 2009 3:27 PM

BRG, I'm with you on the ensuite bath thing!!!! That was one of the top five reasons I wanted a house.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 7, 2009 3:30 PM

I was the 101st appraiser... i feel like a dalmatian!

Posted by: tybur6 at April 7, 2009 3:32 PM

tybur6, good one!

Posted by: Biff Champion at April 7, 2009 3:35 PM

The marketability of three extra bedrooms beyond the master is not as high as a master bedroom with a luxurious bathroom which could have been accomplished on that third floor. Third floor master bedroom with WIKs and attached study plus a gigantic bathroom. Two additional bedrooms on the top floor would probably fulfill the vast majority of buyers needs...unless of course if they're irish or Italian and have like 6 or 8 kids. :)

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 7, 2009 3:36 PM

Biff, youi've been awfully quiet today. Cat got your tongue??

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 7, 2009 3:37 PM

I think those scalloped cornices and curved window heads could date anywhere from the 1860's to the 1880's.

11210, you're not incurring my wrath, just my conversation. Besides you were the one who insulted me based on my (presumed) advanced age.

By the way, I bought my first house in my twenties. No biggie, every married person i knew was buying at that age. I bought the current brownstone I live in in my thirties.
If you are thirty plus and have not yet bought your first property, you may have missed the train. It does not get any easier you know.

Posted by: sam at April 7, 2009 3:46 PM

sam....people "barely in their 30s" know everything. You must have forgotten that in your adcnaced stage.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 7, 2009 3:49 PM

DIBS, please no mention of cats, not here or in the Open Thread. Speaking of which, we should move over there for non-HOTD discussion.

Posted by: Biff Champion at April 7, 2009 3:51 PM

advanced

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 7, 2009 3:51 PM

"If you are thirty plus and have not yet bought your first property, you may have missed the train. It does not get any easier you know."

Sam, not to quibble but that's not a very nice statement. Don't write people off because it took them longer than you to Do something. That was very dismissive.

Just saying.

Posted by: TownhouseLady at April 7, 2009 3:51 PM

THL...11217 went after sam first on the age remark stating that he was perobably 100 years younger than sam. 11217 can post a snarky comment every now and then but can't seem to take it very well in return, or gets upset when he gets ganged up on.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 7, 2009 3:53 PM

Well, well...look who it is...Biff, where you been?

Posted by: TownhouseLady at April 7, 2009 3:53 PM

Dave, you are as always sooo right.

In looking at this plan, I assumed the room next to the master is an en suite den or study as french doors connect it with the master. It could work. The house is nice but it ain't what people are willing to pay two point three million for right now.

Posted by: sam at April 7, 2009 3:56 PM

Ahhh...didn't see there was a snippy history.

Posted by: TownhouseLady at April 7, 2009 3:56 PM

DIBS is 'perobably' right.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at April 7, 2009 3:57 PM

Ahhhh... I missed those french doors, sam. You're right. that said, BRG is still correct that the bath should be larger...two sinks (unless you're vehemently against that), a toilet, a whirlpool and a walk in shower could have been easily done there and it'd really sell a place.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 7, 2009 3:59 PM

The bath should definitely be larger, especially in a 2.3 million dollar house, still, it could work in a say 1.8 million house.
taking down that partition and adding a little space would not be too big a deal.

Posted by: sam at April 7, 2009 4:04 PM

DIBS - correction, you were wrong. Sam went after 11217 first, and basically insulted him for not having enough $$ to buy. I quote: "[I]t maybe an "A" location for you, but you don't have the money to buy this house. For most who have achieved a greter level of finanical success, I would suggest that this is a "B" location. A solid "B".

Second, for many many people, Bed Stuy isn't a "A" neighborhood, not even close. Why even make this comparison to the North Slope?

Posted by: tiptoe at April 7, 2009 4:05 PM

Because I knew it'd rile you up tiptoe.

sam's characterization of the location is probably correct. 11217 has made it known in the past that he can't afford a house like this...there's nothing wrong with that.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 7, 2009 4:09 PM

sam's 2:49 comment started the whole thing...

This is def an A location.

Posted by: infinitejester at April 7, 2009 4:11 PM

so, now you can see through your computer and tell I'm riled up?? DIBS: he sees all, he knows all.

No need to insult someone who hasn't bought yet for having an opinion different than yours. how long have you been a homeowner? I feel SURE you had opinions way before that.

Posted by: tiptoe at April 7, 2009 4:13 PM

I could see how you responded that it riled you.

I've been a homeowner since 1983 when I was 28. In Chicago until 1994 and after that various states. I don'r insult anyone simply becasuse they don't own. When they take an adversarial position to ownership and then support it badly then they're open for whatever I throw at them.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 7, 2009 4:28 PM

If BH is an "A" location, THIS IS CERTAINLY NOT.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 7, 2009 4:30 PM

c'mon guys, simmer down. This is a nice house, it is maybe a little over-priced, in a good part of the Slope but not in the best part of the Slope. And no, 33 is not too old to buy your first house or apartment, but on the other hand, don't let too much more time go by. Time flies.
OK, they're wheeling me out to the dining room at the home now.
good night all!

Posted by: sam at April 7, 2009 4:30 PM

#1. I do own, but it's a small apartment. Enough space for me, and I love it. It is probably in more of an "A" location by Sam's standards than this place.

#2. Thank you tiptoe for pointing out that Sam went after me first. I can take the criticism just fine and was actually making a joking reference to Sam's age to offset what I thought was an extremely dismissive comment he made to me first.

Even if I could afford a full brownstone (not something I ever really imagined going into a career as a musician) I would not buy one. I'm a single guy. What in the world would I need all that space for?

Posted by: 11217 at April 7, 2009 4:48 PM

> "OK, they're wheeling me out to the dining room at the home now."

QLTM.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at April 7, 2009 4:57 PM

P.S. With regard to your statement about getting on the horn about buying property by the age of 33, I find it offensive. But more importantly, it's not really accurate. Firstly, only 33% of New Yorkers own a home or apartment. Secondly, I'm curious to know how your brownstone purchase when you were in your 30's measures up in equivalent dollars today...i.e. 2 million for a brownstone now...

I just found this interesting quote from NYTimes article from 1989...

"The couple in the cartoon portray what is happening in the market fairly accurately, said Wendy Healy, public relations director for Weichert Realty, which has five offices in the county. First-time buyers may be somewhat younger than the couple portrayed in the cartoon, Ms. Healy said, adding: ''They are getting older all the time. In 1980, the first-time home buyer was 25 to 29 years old. This year, the average age of the first-time buyer is 34.'

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/09/10/nyregion/working-to-bolster-residential-sales.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=1

Posted by: 11217 at April 7, 2009 5:07 PM

I don't know how anyone would be able to afford to buy anything in any part of Brooklyn that they might want to live in, in their twenties, unless they happened to be in a select few high-paying jobs.

Those of us who were on the low side of 50k for most of our 20s are just now able to really start saving.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at April 7, 2009 5:17 PM

CWB, how goes the search with Mrs. CWB, by the way? Are you two still actively looking?

Posted by: Biff Champion at April 7, 2009 5:20 PM

Biff - She's actively looking, yep. Her work authorization finally came in the other day, so that's nice. She's doing the networking thing, and the recruiter thing, and the outplacement thing, but market research jobs seem scarce in NYC at the moment. Lots in Chicago and Cincinatti but ... it's very cold in those places. :)

Posted by: cwbuecheler at April 7, 2009 5:25 PM

Hey Mr brownstoner this appraisal thing is starting to be very predictable. 20-25% off listing price. That being said, This house is worth more than that, and this part of Park slope is excellent. 2.1 million.

Posted by: billyboomer at April 7, 2009 5:42 PM

CWB, congrats on her work authorization. Now all she has to do is find a job...hopefully she will before too long.

I guess if you're desparate, you can always buy some heavy sweaters and pack up! :-)

Posted by: Biff Champion at April 7, 2009 6:12 PM

it would be interesting if you published the median price suggested in addition to the average.

Posted by: brooklyn guy at April 7, 2009 6:54 PM

Not sure why this didn't go up when I tried to post hours ago (and it's not my first time posting) but 43 Park Place has been on and off the market a couple of times. That octagonal kitchen window looks out on 43 Park Place's deck -- not very private because anyone standing on said deck can see right into the kitchen.

Posted by: jules at April 7, 2009 9:30 PM

« Co-op of the Day: 32 8th Avenue Streetlevel: Cubana Cafe Coming to 6th Avenue »

April 7, 2009

House of the Day: 45 Park Place

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