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April 28, 2009

Closing Bell: Car Chase Ends Badly in Greenpoint

greenpoint-crash-graham-t-beck.jpg
This pile up is something most don't see everyday, especially in Greenpoint. Graham T. Beck of Streetsblog gives an eyewitness account of the incident that happened yesterday afternoon. Apparently, the mini-van driver was fleeing the police, and struck and sadly killed a woman near India Street. After hitting her, the suspect just kept going but the chase ended when he crashed into a parked SUV.




Posted by TCulver at 4:00 PM | Comments (22)
Categories: Closing Bell, Greenpoint

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Comments

I saw this on Channel 12...the driver also tried to run away and the onlookers chased him down and held him intil the cops got there.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 28, 2009 4:09 PM

What a piece of garbage. Glad he's caught.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at April 28, 2009 4:59 PM

I'm pretty sure there's a pit bull behind this somewhere.

Posted by: UnprotectedWrecks at April 28, 2009 5:02 PM

Yeah, thank God this guy was put away. Karma is gonna start the moment he enters prison. 3x's ain't even the half of it.

Posted by: LincolnSlope at April 28, 2009 5:13 PM

This happened one block away from the condo where I was in contract last year (and got out of). I still hang out over there sometimes, and actually get my haircut at a place on the corner where this woman was hit. Scary, scary stuff.

Knowing the amount of pedestrians on Manhattan Ave, one wonders about the wisdom of a car chase.

Anyway, I hope the perpetrator gets put away for at least 20 years.

Posted by: Paul C at April 28, 2009 5:15 PM

A car chase down busy Manhattan Ave + apparently without any sirens.. you've got to be kidding me! This tradedy could have been avoided if the cops applied some common sense. How sad

Posted by: lambretta at April 28, 2009 5:23 PM

lambretta: Go f#$k yourself. This is not the cops' fault. It is the perp's fault. I hope he dies in prison after many painful experiences in the shower. It disgusts me how quick some people are to blame the cops for everything (in particular problems caused by CRIMINALS, not cops).

Posted by: lechacal at April 28, 2009 6:59 PM

lambretta, it is certainly too early to decide whether or not the chase was 'worth it'. Based on the original Streetsblog post, the witnesses are hardly reliable. Clearly the guy who claims the van driver was going 100mph has never been off his skateboard, based on the photo.

We now know the van was stolen by the perp. We don't know how close the cops were or how close they were following. But a lack of sirens suggests other than a high speed chase.

Posted by: denton at April 28, 2009 7:51 PM

Right on lechacal!
And as a sidenote, it is far from certain that the police cars' having sirens on would have made any difference to the tragic outcome.

Posted by: etson at April 28, 2009 8:01 PM

I would guess the witnesses are a bunch of assholes who would blame the cops for anything.

Posted by: lechacal at April 28, 2009 8:08 PM

The police do have responsibility in this. Catching a car thief was NOT worth a human life. A police officer knows better than to create a high speed chase down Manhattan Ave. They are trained to know that it's an accident waiting to happen. My husband jumped up as soon as he heard the crash. He looked out the window and the cops were already there. Either they went REALLY fast or they beamed themselves to Dupont St.

Posted by: hofmom6 at April 28, 2009 10:12 PM

Right. Why don't we live in a world where it is illegal for the police to ever escalate - or be perceived to escalate, based on unreliable and biased witnesses - the danger of a situation. Guess what - every single car chase EVER is an escalation. Do you want someone to be able to steal from you, rape you, etc and just jump in a car and drive away, and as long as the drive OVER THE FUCKING SPEED LIMIT the police will be prohibited from chasing them? Do you even understand what you are saying you mouth-breathing idiot? Go die.

Posted by: lechacal at April 28, 2009 10:48 PM

Obviously my rules about decorum are limited to discussions regarding real estate.

Posted by: lechacal at April 29, 2009 9:29 AM

Haven't read this blog in a year or so. Thought I'd stop by and check it out. See it's filled with as many baiting and ill-willed comments as it was the last time I stopped reading, disgusted.

Posted by: madison_st at April 29, 2009 10:34 AM

madison, what are you talking about? how do you expect people to discuss the reason for someone's death in our neighborhood? Discussing whether or not it could have been avoided will make people passionate. I understand the intensity it inspires on both sides, and AM GLAD it does. What do you want, a bunch of zombies who shrug their shoulders and move on? I'd rather have ill-willed (or what I consider STRONGLY willed) than non-willed comments.

Anyway, back to the discussion. Lechacal, I see what you're saying, the cops were doing their job. But as someone who a) has a really good friend on the force in NY; and b) has been myself chased and entrapped by undercover cops VIOLENTLY to the point where I thought they were just thugs from some right wing nazi gant, I can very confidently tell you that police officers' reactions get way out of hand, they have no psychological training to deal with their rage and adrenaline, and they do escalate situations way beyond reasonable reaction, because THEY CANT CONTROL THEMSELVES. It isn't easy to stay calm in a chase situation, but there must be explicit training and guidelines for police reaction; right not there are none, and in fact officers are often egged on by their sergeants to use maximum force. It's disgusting and must be changed. I am hoping the "good cops" (like my friend who's equally repulsed by this lack of training) will in time make those reforms at the NYPD. (If they ever let a woman become police commissioner, that is.)

Posted by: iz at April 29, 2009 11:27 AM

OK, so my post was pretty over the top. I get very worked up about this issue. The go die comment was not called for.

Police work often puts innocent third parties in danger. Just one example: any time an armed criminal is being pursued there is a risk of hostage-taking. In fact I think most hostage situations exist solely because of the possibilty that the hostage taker may be apprehended. But as a society we have decided that it is much better to risk occasional harm to the innocent - and yes, even the occasional innocent life - than to refuse to enforce the law. If we prohibit police from giving chase by car, we give every criminal with a car a guaranteed escape. Consider watching a murderer escape in traffic just because we are too afraid that he might do even more harm if we chase him. What a spineless and defeatist view.

Posted by: lechacal at April 29, 2009 1:37 PM

i just searched "car chase greenpoint brooklyn" and only found articles on brownstoner and gothamist. did it make the papers?

it was in fact a high speed car chase (ala bruce willis or sts of sf or any other cop show). at one point i saw the mini van hit a curb and catch air-that was down on manhattan ave in a warehouse area with wider streets and few people. it is just repeatedly blowing my mind that the cops pursued him in the direction of manhattan ave's main shopping area and then continued the chase once he entered it.

manhattan ave is narrow and teeming with peds, bikes and cars. he sped by and the next thing i heard were ambulance sirens. it was irresponsible at best. i wish every cop involved would lose his job.

according to the gothamist a 38 yr old woman was killed. if anyone has seen this reported in the mainstream press could you please post? is it really going to just fade into the woodwork?

Posted by: edthmassey at April 30, 2009 11:17 AM

in response to lechacal:
the criminal was a car thief. when i saw the chase i assumed he was a murder (which he now is). one woman was killed, one criminal's became a murder and at least one family with children was devastated unnecessarily.

Posted by: edthmassey at April 30, 2009 11:22 AM

AND, lechacal,
did you see the photo of the cars on the top of this page? clearly that was the result of a crash at high speed. why don't you do some research before assuming everyone is just a cop hater looking for a forum? it is you who has the closed mind. if you want to blog with adults why don't you get some info before you start crying like a hysterical baby about your friends the cops?

Posted by: edthmassey at April 30, 2009 11:30 AM


in answer to someone's incorrect assumption:
there were no sirens, and it was a high speed chase.


Posted by: edthmassey at April 30, 2009 11:50 AM

edthmassey - right on. I would much rather have my car stolen, than have my wife (or me) killed in a high speed car chase attempting to apprehend the thief.

Manhattan Ave. is precarious driving under normal conditions, so any chase is ill-considered at best. Plus, where is the guy going to go, kind of a dead-end.

This was reported in the Post and Daily News, and covered here:

http://greenpointers.blogspot.com/2009/04/police-activity-on-manhattan-avenue.html

Posted by: Paul C at April 30, 2009 2:28 PM

hi-
i've read about the chase on greenpointers.com, brownstoner.com, gothamist.com, streetsblog.org and http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php? i've been told it was mentioned in the post, but i didn't see it there. basically the story, like so many, has already faded into the past. i'm haunted by it (yes, with full knowledge of all of the other terrible stuff going on in the world), maybe because it took place in my neighborhood. my friends, separately, witnessed it so i know for a fact that the police really did act in an inexplicably ludicrous manner by pursuing that minivan. i am not experienced in pursuing stuff like this so i don't know the correct procedure for complaint, but i did find one supposed venue for it in case anyone is interested:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/home.html

Posted by: edthmassey at May 3, 2009 2:06 AM

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