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April 13, 2009

423 Clinton Sells for Half Price

When 423 Clinton Avenue was a House of the Day last October, we called its asking price of $1,800,000 a "bit of a stretch." It's now looking like the price was more than a bit of a stretch: The four-story brownstone closed for just $990,000 on March 25, 2009. That's quite a discount, but not a great surprise given that the house was in need of quite a bit of work. Still, the original details could make it quite a catch for an intrepid restorer at this price. GMAP

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wow, that's a big cut and a very good final price. Lesson here for buyers, DONT be shy in offering a price you like on a ppty cause one never knows how much a seller wants to sell it. if this was marketed at $990k, I suspect it would've gotten multiple bids and probably over $1M. Unless the offer was all-cash, this is much cheaper than anything we've seen in a long long while.

Posted by: more4less at April 13, 2009 10:21 AM

It was described as a "7 family" in the original listing. Any further evidence that it may have been a SRO???

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 10:23 AM

This has given me confidence to bid half off all the $2M houses. Keep offering until I find that 1 desperate seller

Posted by: more4less at April 13, 2009 10:27 AM

Where's the poster 'Brownstones Half Off'?

Was the price chopped over the life of the listing?

Posted by: bayridgegirl at April 13, 2009 10:28 AM

a small dose of reality more to come. I think they still overpaid by 200,000. Anybody who has done a renovation can correct me if I am wrong here, but would'nt a house like this cost about 400,000 to fix up properly?

Posted by: brickoven at April 13, 2009 10:33 AM

This house would cost at least half a million dollars to fix up properly as a single, or two-family residence. However I suspect whoever bought it is looking to covert it into a quick and dirty rental building.

Posted by: sam at April 13, 2009 10:35 AM

It's not an SRO....hhhmmm

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/PropertyProfileOverviewServlet?boro=3&houseno=423&street=clinton+avenue&requestid=0&s=A03C41B885B461E4F46BD08866A7430E

So was this a deal?

Posted by: bayridgegirl at April 13, 2009 10:36 AM

I'm going to have to agree with brickoven today. This house needed everything and whether its a 3 storey or a 4 storey, it should really only sell for $600-700k in Ft Greene or Bed Stuy when it needs a total renovation.

Even once the interior is fully renovated (at least $300k)it'll never sell for anything close to what a normal brownstone would without the added porch and brick stoops.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 10:37 AM

The C of O is for a 7-family with two apartments on each floor except one apartment on the 1st floor.

Condo Conversion??

Posted by: bayridgegirl at April 13, 2009 10:38 AM

You can't give Brooklyn condos away today. More likely this will be studio rentals. They already have a c of o for a 7-unit flophouse. There is always a fresh supply of Pratt students nearby.

Posted by: sam at April 13, 2009 10:41 AM

And its Landmarked so add more money to the costs.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 10:41 AM

When you say a dirty rental, you are talking about some HUD building? That would most likely be there only shot to make money on it. The rental market for landlords is awful and is supposed to get worse this coming year. There is a glut of avail. rentals, and they landlords wil suck youre toes if you sign a two year.

Posted by: brickoven at April 13, 2009 10:43 AM

If they rent each one out at $1,000 a month, the gross yield before utilities, taxes, etc is 8.5%, not bad. Will they get that much for what must be incredibly small apartments???

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 10:45 AM

hope mkt shares the sentiment here, cause 65% off is even better. it would be itching toward "affordable"

Posted by: more4less at April 13, 2009 10:48 AM

Hey BHO there's your 50% off.

Posted by: pierre de taille at April 13, 2009 10:53 AM

According to propertyshark, the owners bought it in 1967 and paid off their mortgage (which was held by the seller) in 1982. They must have made a very handsome profit even at $990k.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 10:54 AM

don't we need to determine the peak comp before we give BHO the prize? i can't imagine the sale price for a place like this for in 2005-2007 would have been $1.8m - so how far off is the mansion-tax avoiding just-sub $1m sale here? i have no idea - but it seemed to me that in 2006, houses in this condition and of this size were asking between $1.3 and $1.4 (except in PS and BH, where we didn't bother looking). In better areas, they got snapped up right away, at around that price $1.4 or $1.5. In CH, they stagnated at ask, with apparently very little interest, for some time before I lost track of them.

there's no mortgage listed on property shark. but it was bought by an LLC.

Posted by: i disagree at April 13, 2009 10:59 AM

They did major work in 2005 which stated that the plumbing, electrical & heating were all upgraded AND, the permit references a garage as well!!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 11:00 AM

I still find it incredible that folks pay so much attention to reductions in asking price as an indicator of the market trends. I know of no market analysis report that tracks asking price, for a very simple reason: the asking price simply represents the wishes or delusions of the seller, not the actual market conditions.

I live in a 46 unit Park Slope condo complex and the large majority of them are identical, 3 bedroom units, so comps are easy to perform. In late 2007 one of them sold for $1.05M. In late 2008 another of these units sold for $1.03M. Right now there is an owner one floor above me who has had his unit on the market for 3 months. His initial asking price was $1.2M. After several months of empty open houses,he has now lowered his asking price to $1.05M.

Question to all those who place great importance in reductions of asking price: is my neighbor's 11% reduction in his asking price an indication of a decline in the market, or an indication of his ending his delusion?

Posted by: benson at April 13, 2009 11:03 AM

I would not classify this at half off at all. This house would never of sold for 1.8, never! What the asking prices were should be ignored. I was in Miami this winter checking out some condos, and this idiot broker was telling me what a fire sale the apt. was. It was a sick place on the ocean in a new building and they wanted 700,000. Guy said I cant go wrong "two years ago the ask was 1.2". I laughed so hard in the guys face that my girl was embarrased. Place is still on the market and the ask is 550,000.

Posted by: brickoven at April 13, 2009 11:06 AM

Dave, I doubt any work was done.

They filed for some work in 2005, but no permits were ever pulled and the DOB applications were withdrawn on 3/14/09....just in time to close.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at April 13, 2009 11:08 AM

Brickoven;

Thank you!! Finally there is someone on Brownstoner who puts the asking price in perspective.

Posted by: benson at April 13, 2009 11:08 AM

Some of us have been saying for a while now that areas like Clinton Hill are extremely overvalued and prices there shot up far farther than actual gentrification. We were scolded as talking negatively about the neighborhood (mostly by those who live in said areas). This looks like about the right selling price to me for this house in this area, although I think it might have been a tad high even still.

Posted by: 11217 at April 13, 2009 11:09 AM

Thanks, BRG...I didn't see that the permits were never pulled.

Yes, benson & brickoven, ask is not indicative of the market and most of the homes I've seen for sale by "long time owners" are just on the market to see if somebody crazy will come by and pay a ridiculous price.

I never would have paid anything close to $990 for something like this that needed everything.

Also, taxes are $11,000.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 11:12 AM

A seven family C of O? I didn't know such a thing existed. This price seems about right for a house with as many complications as this one would seem to have. Don't think it actually speaks to the value of housing in Clinton Hill very well though because of all of the insanity involved with trying to renovate it.

Posted by: wasder at April 13, 2009 11:14 AM

"I still find it incredible that folks pay so much attention to reductions in asking price as an indicator of the market trends. I know of no market analysis report that tracks asking price, for a very simple reason: the asking price simply represents the wishes or delusions of the seller, not the actual market conditions."

EXACTLY! Thank you Benson.

Posted by: TownhouseLady at April 13, 2009 11:15 AM

Bstoner should pick this article up for a thread....it's something I've said for a while now and most people seem to scoff at it.

I'm realizing today more than ever how out of touch the bstoner crowd is...yes yes...I know it's NYmag, but this is EXACTLY what I've found to be true also...

http://nymag.com/news/features/56013/

Posted by: 11217 at April 13, 2009 11:26 AM

" know of no market analysis report that tracks asking price, for a very simple reason: the asking price simply represents the wishes or delusions of the seller, not the actual market conditions."

No Dumbasses it still "marks" the greed and delusion of retards! Notice a LLC brought this place not some gentrifying Asshead! The LLC is going to "Home Depot" this dump and hope to find some suckers to overpay on rent! There is plenty of retards that will sleep 7 in a 1 bedroom in a "Up and Coming" neighborhood...

Oh BTW most of the sales this have been made by LLC's not by Assheads go look it for yourselves....

The What (Buh Bye Retards! Nice knowing ya!)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at April 13, 2009 11:28 AM

No doubt $1.8M was ridiculous. So are the many listings out there that are also a joke price-wise. until those sellers get in sync with reality, buyers have to wait, wait, wait,....... This is a good sign that some sellers are getting in touch with reality and do what needs to be done to get it sold. 50-70% off those ridiculous prices and we're really itching close to "affordable"

to all those sellers with the pipe dream prices, snap out it already and get your hands on some cold hard cash - ie hack the price & sell it already

Posted by: more4less at April 13, 2009 11:32 AM

To reiterate my earlier point a little better, if this was a decently renovated two or three family on that same block of Clinton Ave (between Greene and Gates) and had gone for that price we could be talking about plummeting prices in prime Clinton Hill. This house does not a good example make, though clearly the delusional seller is getting whacked in this market, generally speaking.

Posted by: wasder at April 13, 2009 11:33 AM

Hey What....I think if more purchases are being made by LLCs it indicates that they are being made for primarily economic purposes and it indicates that these "businesses" believe there's real economic value in the real estate supported by the numbers. Individual asshats buy it to live in and the economics are usually secondary most of the time.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 11:34 AM

"Hey BHO there's your 50% off."

You rrrang? As inferred from brickoven's comment, 423 Clinton sold for very close, if not on the money, to peak comps (asking prices are not worth the paper they're printed on). It's actually quite a catch for the sellers (contrats!). Sorry buyer, you lose.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at April 13, 2009 11:34 AM

I also have to agree with BHO today on this one.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 11:36 AM

"The LLC is going to "Home Depot" this dump and hope to find some suckers to overpay on rent! There is plenty of retards that will sleep 7 in a 1 bedroom in a "Up and Coming" neighborhood..."

The retards have lost there jobs and are fleeing NYC. There is no prospect for jobs for most of the laid off finance crowd. Some of the girls have taken to the poll but other then that they are packing up and going back to there hometowns.

Posted by: brickoven at April 13, 2009 11:39 AM

wow. finally some agreement from both sides of the divide that asking prices are and have been out of whack with the reality of the market. progress!

Posted by: travy at April 13, 2009 11:40 AM

I also would agree that BHO is right in saying the seller got a good deal. Not sure he is right about the buyer getting hosed though. This is a very challenging property for sure but a business with deep enough pockets could certainly make some money in converting that, even if the units sold very cheaply.

Posted by: wasder at April 13, 2009 11:44 AM

But travy, BHO's comment focuses more on the issue...you do have to focus on comp sales to get an idea of the market, not asking prices.

I think he's still not going to get his 50% off of comps and I also believe that this house went for MORE than comps should indicate!!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 11:45 AM

"Not sure he is right about the buyer getting hosed though."

Unemployment checks cannot support these prices. Sorry. Deep pockets to absorb (or hide like Level 3) the deep loss. Like love, you can't buy your way out of a flip flop. Ask Tishman Speyer.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at April 13, 2009 11:53 AM

DIBS:

Sometimes, you use an LLC for the purchase if you have more than one property that is not your primary residence.

Posted by: BrooklynIsHome at April 13, 2009 11:54 AM

"Hey What....I think if more purchases are being made by LLCs it indicates that they are being made for primarily economic purposes and it indicates that these "businesses" believe there's real economic value in the real estate supported by the numbers."

Nope dumbass this means there is more delusional retards in this market! The upcoming Greater Depression is going to change that! I was Downtown Brooklyn yesterday and I was amazed at the amount of construction going on! This will not end well...

The What (Hang on Snoopy)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at April 13, 2009 11:55 AM

"I think he's still not going to get his 50% off of comps..."

The trend disagrees with you, DIBS. But hey, if you can't beat us, join us.

Team Bear (Grrrrrrr!)

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at April 13, 2009 11:56 AM

Hey WHAT...I bought Skittles last week and there are brown ones. You're whole reality is a joke.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 11:59 AM

There is a trend downwards in comps. Expecting them to come off 50% is just your own little pipe dream.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 12:00 PM

"The retards have lost there jobs and are fleeing NYC. There is no prospect for jobs for most of the laid off finance crowd. Some of the girls have taken to the poll but other then that they are packing up and going back to there hometowns."

SSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Brickoven!

"I also would agree that BHO is right in saying the seller got a good deal. Not sure he is right about the buyer getting hosed though. This is a very challenging property for sure but a business with deep enough pockets could certainly make some money in converting that, even if the units sold very cheaply."

Wasder put down the crack pipe! It takes at lease 2 years to convert this dump into condos and they have to get a No Harassment from DOB! Then construction time and other nonsense!

This LLC caught a falling Machete, Ginsu Knife and a Samurai Sword all at the same time!

It's OVER GUYS! Get it! OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at April 13, 2009 12:01 PM

"There is a trend downwards in comps. Expecting them to come off 50% is just your own little pipe dream."

Note to Team Bear: Leave Team Retard alone! here we have a clear example where the Mutant Asset Bubble is going and still..... Sad...

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at April 13, 2009 12:04 PM

What just can't stand to believe that some people have money to buy.

I think they overpaid for this but I haven't seem their business plan.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 12:06 PM

"Expecting them to come off 50% is just your own little pipe dream."

And your worst nightmare. You told me the same thing months/years(?) ago about 8,000 on the DOW and 800 on the S&P. See how this is going? How's your City Center bag holding(s)?

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at April 13, 2009 12:07 PM

"This LLC caught a falling Machete, Ginsu Knife and a Samurai Sword all at the same time!"

ROTFLMMFAO!!!

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at April 13, 2009 12:08 PM

And we were short the market for that timeframe!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 12:10 PM

And we were short the market for that timeframe!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 12:10 PM

Seller got a very nice price. I wonder about rental comps and making money there, one to two bedrooms on clinton between lafayette and dekalb (kings and queens realty)in an established well run bldg are fetching between $1,400 and $1,800 currently. This property a little to close to Fulton to expect top rents.

Posted by: DeLepp at April 13, 2009 12:16 PM

"I think they overpaid for this but I haven't seem their business plan."

Dave please reinsert the Cock back into your mouth so you can't type, thank you...

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at April 13, 2009 12:18 PM

Seller probably made $950,000 profit from original cost in 1967...maybe even more!!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 12:18 PM

I think more of a testament that fringe areas, like Clinton Hill are not holding up their values. 7 family meant at least 25% - 30% down.

Also just because the initial ask was so high only meant the sellers had no clue about the market and the market showed the real price. There was no big discount or great deal. It's just perception. I could ask $50M for a house and get $1M, would that be a great discount.

Posted by: NewYawker at April 13, 2009 12:19 PM

rents for are over 2k for 2bdrm on clinton (lafayette & greene) but that's besides the point. to handoff (big deposit & renov $$$) and commit this much debt to earn a skinny profit % on rental income, it doesn't make sense unless buyer is assuming some juicy appreciation down the road. If an LLC is in the rental business, one has to rent units out but can't believe prices are that juicy on this ppty. Current prices are still so high that if one isn't buying it to live (ie ignoring the buy vs. rent math) but for rental income, then that buyer needs some basic math lessons & concept of opportunity cost (ie tons of investments come to mind as being better; some are much much better than real estate at these prices)

Posted by: more4less at April 13, 2009 12:30 PM

What...I can still type with cock in my mouth. Talk about a retard!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 12:34 PM

"here we have a clear example where the Mutant Asset Bubble is going and still..... Sad..."

The problem here is this is not a clear example of much except that condo conversions are not a very good way to make money these days. This house presents a very complex and difficult road to renovation and profitability. No single person in their right mind would have bought this house with a seven family c of o and 11G annually in taxes (hence why it was a great sale for the seller). But to extrapolate from this to the state of one, two or three family homes in this area is a big stretch.

Posted by: wasder at April 13, 2009 12:36 PM

more4less do people really pay that much for rent in this area? That wont last for long, if it is true.

Posted by: brickoven at April 13, 2009 12:39 PM

I would guess that the one floor-through apt. could go for more than $1,000 but the other six????? Highly doubtful.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 12:41 PM

brickoven--rents for two bedrooms in that area are about 2000-2200.

Posted by: wasder at April 13, 2009 12:42 PM

"brickoven--rents for two bedrooms in that area are about 2000-2200."

WHERE?????????!!!!!!!!!!!! Wasder!!!!!!!!!! Remember who your neighbor is! The retards ASKING for that rent have their apartments sitting empty!! 2 bedroom 1600 a month and falling! Plus wait until the spring the retard are moving to Manhattan!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at April 13, 2009 12:57 PM

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at April 13, 2009 12:57 PM

ARE YOU MOVING TO MANHATTAN, WHAT??????

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 1:00 PM

They bought as an LLC because its a commercial property (c of o 7 fam) 99% of commercial properties are purchased in LLC. Some banks require that your purchase commercial properties as an LLC and will not lend to an individual.

Askign prices have no basis. Half off asking just means that the seller was daft. This is basicaly a shell and needs a gut rehab. Even at the top this wouldn have not gone for more than 1.2 million.

It's still overpriced and makes more sense at 700k-750k plus 400k in work and you have a nice 1.2-1.3 value depending on the renovations.

Posted by: Adam Dahill at April 13, 2009 1:28 PM

What, I get 1700 for my one bedroom rental and had a line of people waiting to rent because it was such a good deal, and my house is not nearly in as nice a location as this one.

Posted by: wasder at April 13, 2009 1:28 PM

$265 sq/ft for a property on Clinton Ave, in Landmarked CH is a good price.

$100 sq/ft in improvements puts total cost @ $365 sq/ft or $1.4 million.

Let's say the LLC is in fact two friends who's ultimate intention is to split the property in 2 duplexes and occupy them.

Where else in CH/FG can you acquire a finished duplex for under $375 sq/ft?

Posted by: Colonel Steve Austin at April 13, 2009 1:35 PM

"They bought as an LLC because its a commercial property (c of o 7 fam) 99% of commercial properties are purchased in LLC. Some banks require that your purchase commercial properties as an LLC and will not lend to an individual."

LIES!!!!!!

"Askign prices have no basis."

Really?????????? I love how the retards keep moving the goalposts!

"t's still overpriced and makes more sense at 700k-750k plus 400k in work and you have a nice 1.2-1.3 value depending on the renovations."

Fail! Hey Adam are you giving Blow jobs to prospective clients?

The What (Don't listen to Team Retard)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at April 13, 2009 1:51 PM

What's all bent out of shape because he didn't get invited to the White House Easter Egg Hunt.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 13, 2009 1:55 PM

Hey everybody, drinks are on Biff!

He was going to bid $1.5m for it so we've saved him $500k in 6 months!

Posted by: the chicken at April 13, 2009 3:24 PM

I am surprised people pay that much for this area to rent. I wonder how many leveraged owners in this hood depend on that to make the monthly mortgage. I wish I could short Clinton Hill and Fort Greene

Posted by: brickoven at April 13, 2009 4:22 PM

Not just in Clinton Hill/Fort Greene brick. Owners of two family houses all over Brooklyn depend on rent for help with their mortgage. With rents falling, according to what one reads in the paper, this is definitely a cause for concern for many of us. I personally tried to price mine at a reasonable level in hopes of attracting a tenant that I like and one that will stick around for the long haul. We shall see when its time to re-up I suppose.

Posted by: wasder at April 13, 2009 5:09 PM

From that NYMag article: "45 percent of the people under 35 said they’d like to live in New York."

That's sweet and cute and all, but what tiny fraction of a percentage point of those people will actually make the move?

Posted by: SnarkSlope at April 13, 2009 10:07 PM

From that NYMag article: "45 percent of the people under 35 said they’d like to live in New York." Very nice 99 percent of men under 35 said they would like to date a playboy bunny! The other one percent is hunting for Easter eggs. Remember ypu can want in one hand and sh... in the other and never know which one fills up first.

Posted by: hannible at April 14, 2009 10:27 AM

« Babs: 'Don't Ever Underestimate' New York Green Lamp Posts Coming to the Navy Yard »

April 13, 2009

423 Clinton Sells for Half Price

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