« Open Thread Cleaning Out 405 Clinton Avenue »

Update on the Bedford Armory Homeless Saga

Categories: Crown Heights, Quality of Life

When we last checked in with the Bedford Armory, nearby residents were trying to fight efforts by the Department of Homeless Services to move the city's main intake center from the East 20's in Manhattan to the historic armory in Crown Heights; more recently the city announced its intention to also increase the number of homeless beds at the nearby Sumner Avenue Armory from 200 to 1,000. Shortly after last August's confrontational meeting on the topic between residents and DHS's George Nashak, a spokesperson for DHS said that the agency would add an additional intake center in Manhattan to lighten the Armory's load. In hearings later in the year, however, DHS retreated to the position that it was "considering" the Manhattan location. As far as we can figure out, DHS has yet to clarify the situation. In addition, when DHS announced it would be expanding the number of beds at the Bedford-Atlantic Armory, it tried to placate locals by saying it would close down the Peter Young Shelter across the street. Well, they did close Peter Young, but they turned it into a 24-hour detox center, which is always good for the neighborhood quality of life. To protest the treatment the neighborhood is receiving from the city and to announce that a law firm has been retained to fight the city, City Council Members James, Vann and de Blasio along with a number of other elected officials and neighborhood organizations are holding a press conference at City Hall on Sunday at 2 p.m. As we've said before, Crown Heights and Bed Stuy already shoulder more than their fair share of these kinds of social services and don't deserve to be dumped on again.
Shelter Woes Spread From Crown Heights to Bed Stuy [Brownstoner]
Homeless Intake Center Plan Provokes Broad Opposition [Brownstoner]
Pols Gather to Pan Crown Heights Homeless Plan [Brownstoner]
Crown Heights Rally: Don't Dump On Us! [Brownstoner]

54 Comments

By PitbullNYC on March 6, 2009 9:36 AM

i feel like i should respond, but i really do have issue with this. probably not a popular one, but whatever. having homeless people reside in an area WHERE THE AMENITIES ARE CHEAPER to begin with makes sense. homeless people still need their coffee, ciggies, food, etc.. it's much cheaper to be homeless in bed stuy than in chelsea. that's just life. and people in 2 million dollar condos are just not going to put up with having a homeless shelter next to them. that's just life too. on that note, im sure in 2 months ill living there! woo woo

*rob*

By InsertSnappyNameHere on March 6, 2009 9:40 AM

"people in 2 million dollar condos are just not going to put up with having a homeless shelter next to them"

And the folks of this area should not have to put up with the disproportionate number of these services in their backyard either. Why should the 2mill condos get a pass?

By PitbullNYC on March 6, 2009 9:46 AM

because they are paying more? i dont know. throw tomatoes at me if you must. it's also disingenuous to say "have to put up with" to begin with. i mean on one hand i agree. i think it would be hysterical if the government all of a sudden decided to fill up all the stupid boutique hotels and empty condos with homeless people but on the other hand, you have to be realistic. no one who worth millions of dollars wants to live next door to boxcar willy.

*r*

By Putnamdenizen on March 6, 2009 9:47 AM

Rob:
By your reasoning all social services should be packed into a few lower-income neighborhoods. Since the fine burgers of Crown Heights haven't paid 2 million dollars for their condos your reasoning is that those in power should ignore their pleas to distribute social services and intakes more fairly. Remember, this is not a service for those primarily from the neighborhood - rather it is the intake for homeless men throughout the city. While you may be correct that those with money in the central districts of the city seem to believe that they have some right to have the streets cleaned of "undesirables", others disagree, adn have been organizing to counteract this misconception.

As far as coffee and cigarettes being cheaper in Crown Heights (not BEd-Stuy) than the east side (not Chelsea). I really don't know what to say. Homeless people don't reside anywhere (thus the moniker of "homeless"). The city ships them hither and thither according to the pressures of the day. I doubt that anyone considers whether coffee is 80 cents or 1.25 at the corner bodega. Nor should they.

Why am I responding? Sigh.

By PitbullNYC on March 6, 2009 9:49 AM

you're responding cuz it's an important issue and you made good points putnam.

*rob*

By Petebklyn on March 6, 2009 9:56 AM

Besides considering the effect on the immediate vicinity,
need to also consider where homeless are better served. And I doubt Crown Heights is the answer. The hospitals and other social services, transportation and mental health services are not located there.
Plus, having a facility for that many people in a lower density neighborhood is going to have a more dramatic effect on quality of life of nearby residents.
Certainly smells to me of dumping problem where seen by fewer and less powerful citizens of this city.

Shame on Bloomberg and all you Bloomberg fans.

By PitbullNYC on March 6, 2009 9:58 AM

actually pete that IS a really good point pete. *rescinding my original post*

By InsertSnappyNameHere on March 6, 2009 10:01 AM

Rob, the studies, if I remember correctly, have shown that Manhattan has the highest number of homeless. So, simple question, why not put the service where the need is higher? Also, to say that such services should only go in nabes like CH is short-sighted and rather prejudiced (NO- I am *NOT* calling you a racist, please don't make that leap). I mean it in the sense that suggesting that the city should put all of these services there as opposed to other nabes just because they didn't pay 2mill+ for their homes is at the very least economic prejudice.

By crownheights2007 on March 6, 2009 10:04 AM

Sorry to put it bluntly, but alot of new people in CHN have payed 700,000 upwards for their houses....The kids go to private schools, we shop in the neighborhood, we shop elsewhere as well. Fairway trucks are a frequent sight. AND as you know, BEDFORD IS VERY CLOSE TO THE CHN/PROSPECT HEIGHTS BORDER (2 streets - Bedford to Franklin to Classon). So do you think that the homeless and drug intake persons will be confined to CHN and not wander into Prospect Heights too ? (where houses go for 1.5 million a few streets over from us ). All those kids renting at the Jewish hospital on Prospect Pl should be concerned too. Frankly Im tired of officials dumping their social problems on parts of the city that are already saturated with "challenges" shall we say. This neighborhood is just getting better and the City wants to put the ghetto back into CHN and Prospect Heights - take us back 10 years ! There must be another solution. In fact I know of a homeless type shelter right on 24th and Lexington. Somehow those who are homeless manage to get their coffees just fine....We all must share the burden we all must do our part, personally and collectively to improve the lives of people who are marginalised. But some areas feel all of the burden, while others feel nothing at all.

By PitbullNYC on March 6, 2009 10:10 AM

quote:

Somehow those who are homeless manage to get their coffees just fine....

uh, like michael jackson would say, "that's ignorant."

i could be channeling the what here, but just cuz you paid 3/4 of a million dollars for a house in the ghetto doesnt mean it's not the ghetto anymore. and i hate the term ghetto to begin with, but you have to be realistic. everywhere can't be high money. there will always have to pockets of areas where people with not a lot of money can live.

and yeah, honestly, you do make one point. if i was homeless myself even i wouldnt choose to live in crown heights. id imagine (dare i say) one of the perks of being homeless is that you can choose your location. i'd fer sure be living it up somewhere swankier. im totally going to hell.

*r*

By g man on March 6, 2009 10:11 AM

"...DHS retreated to the position that it was 'considering' the Manhattan location. As far as we can figure out, DHS has yet to clarify the situation."

"Relocation of Adult Intake Facility from Bellevue Shelter" is on page 11 of the FY2010-2011 Citywide Statement of Needs. The "Proposed Location" is "All boroughs," but DHS staff have informed me that is an error and the new intake facility is planned for some place in Manhattan.

I am always wary when something is set forth in black and white but I am then told in a less official way that the information is incorrect. Nothing makes me worry more than being told I don't have to worry.

By daveinbedstuy on March 6, 2009 10:15 AM

I think it would be just fine next to rob's building.

By PitbullNYC on March 6, 2009 10:22 AM

and i'd be just fine with that as well. unlike some people, i don't find homeless people annoying or gross. (well except for the Crusties... you know them right? those kids with dogs who come here in the spring from california and sit on the streets with big cardboard signs begging for change to get back to california?) they are the worst. and they all come from money lol

*r*

By crownheights2007 on March 6, 2009 10:24 AM

excuse me "r" I do not live in the ghetto. I live in a wonderful community with "all sorts of people" as one of the older timers put it. "r" where do you live ? Maybe you should go on a CHN walking tour. BROWNSTONER , perhaps another CHN Walking Tour could be organised to show people once again the beauty of this neighborhood and the people who live here..

By BrooklynIsHome on March 6, 2009 10:26 AM

Fact Check: The Peter Young facility will be used for day treatment. They go home at night. Home, by the way is the community. More than 98% of the attendees have been and are expected to be from the Crown Heights community as verified by the home address zip codes.

So, no to sex offenders in shelters in residential communities. Yes, to handling our issues on our home turf.

By Amzi Hill on March 6, 2009 10:27 AM

If the city really wanted to be play fair they should evenly distribute the homeless throughout all neighborhoods in NYC.. There are plenty of abandon buildings all over NYC in every area.. It would be nice if the UES and Brooklyn Heights got the same number of homeless as Crown Heights and Bedford Stuyvesant. We should not get the lump of NYC homeless population.

By InsertSnappyNameHere on March 6, 2009 10:28 AM

Rob, it's not that the people of CH find the homless "annoying or gross." It's simply about a disproportionate amount of these social services being placed there for the simple fact that the City feels they aren't strong enough to fight it or that other nabes don't 'deserve' it. You are making some strong generalizations here.

By InsertSnappyNameHere on March 6, 2009 10:30 AM

Amzi, I second that.

By brownstoner on March 6, 2009 10:38 AM

Bodegas in poorer neighborhoods often have higher prices than better-serviced, more expensive areas.

By bkny on March 6, 2009 10:42 AM

why is anyone responding to Rob, who is 1 pay check away from being homeless, in his 30's and living with a roommate. he is pathetic and should be completely ignorned.

By PitbullNYC on March 6, 2009 10:42 AM

quote:

Bodegas in poorer neighborhoods often have higher prices than better-serviced, more expensive areas.

that is 100 percent absolutely categorically UNTRUE. if you want i can make a documentary or something on this and do field research.
i am a master bodega and fauxdega shopper. i know.

*r*

By bkny on March 6, 2009 10:49 AM

brownstoner - when was the last time you shopped at a bodega in a poorer 'hood. the poland springs at my bodega is 75 cents. downtown brooklyn/brooklyn heights the same poland springs is between $1.25-$1.67, depending on where you go.

By PitbullNYC on March 6, 2009 10:49 AM

quote:

why is anyone responding to Rob, who is 1 pay check away from being homeless, in his 30's and living with a roommate. he is pathetic and should be completely ignorned.

oh sorry i don't fit your super sweet demographic. :-/ just because im in my 30s and have a roommate doesn't mean i can't have an opinion about brooklyn related things. let me ask you something. do you have a wife or husband or boyfriend or girlfriend who you live with? newsflash. that's a roommate (with benefits)

*r*

By InsertSnappyNameHere on March 6, 2009 10:51 AM

Rob, bring it on! I don't know about the prices in varying bodegas, but would be interested to see what your field research would show. Get a video camera and start roaming different nabes this weekend.

By bxgrl on March 6, 2009 10:55 AM

Well it did take me awhile to calm down enough to post here after reading robs post.I think you should know that homeless organizations are also involved in fighting the Bedford Intake center because they believe- and rightly so- it forces undue hardship on homeless men who need to get services. The train is a far walk, and this is no nexus of train lines. If you're coming from Manhattan to here, you have to plot out your route. I do it, thousands of Crown Heights people do it as we go to and from work. But if you're a homeless guy without money or food or warm clothing, you have a problem. By mking it harder for these men to get help you're doing them a great disservice.

My neighborhood is filled with working poor and middle class, rob. We may not have Wall St financiers (thank goodness!) but equal rights comes under the Constitution, not via a financial statement. The fact that you paid for a 2 million dollar home doesn't entitle you to be a land baron. It entitles you to have a nice home, a honking big mortgage, a car, and expensive clothes. It doesn't entitle you to tell the city to dump its problems in less wealthy neighborhoods.

CHN and Bed-Stuy have struggled to stabilize and become great communities to live in. They have struggled with greater problems and done far more with far less than a Brooklyn Heights or a Park Slope. Many of us don't have a voice in what the city does, and many of us who do have found it isn't loud enough because it isn't backed up by big money. So year in and year out these neighborhoods have endured.

What the city is doing is neither right, nor ethical, nor moral. And probably not legal. Taxes paid in these neighborhoods go to provide services and infrastructure in yours, rob. You get better service in Park Slope. Your potholes are fixed sooner. You have nicer train stations (Grand Army plaza is gorgeous), and when people in Park Slope raise a fuss, it gets a better listen than when Crown Heights speaks.

Don't make the mistake of believing we don't care and that's why we are where we are with social services. There are strong community voices and the press conference is one result. Money buys you stuff, rob. It doesn't entitle you to dump social responsibilities on another community. Now if only Bloomberg would learn that...

By InsertSnappyNameHere on March 6, 2009 11:00 AM

Well said, bxgirl. Well said.

By brownstoner on March 6, 2009 11:00 AM

Rob, WNYC did a series on that topic last year. For many of the basics like milk, prices are often higher in poorer neighborhoods. Not sure about coffee.

By daveinbedstuy on March 6, 2009 11:02 AM

It's not the beverages that are overpriced in the bodegas, its the actual food (canned, cereal, etc) and everything else like detergent, toilet paper, etc.

By PitbullNYC on March 6, 2009 11:08 AM

quote:

i agree with you bxgirl for the most part but the above statement just waxes it too lightly. while there are many great people working for the better cause in financially run down neighborhoods, the great majority when it comes down to it are just lazy. before you get into a shouting match with me calling me a racist or classist or something, ill be the first to admit i too am lazy and more focused on my day to day survival like most people. i somehow wound up randomly in a neighborhood that actually doesn't fit with my modus operandi (? does that make sense?). im coasting waiting for the next shoe to fall, that's life for a lot of people and it's why they don't care. there is so much self righteousness that sometimes comes out of the mouths of gentrifiers it borders on obnoxiousness. you dont REALLY get us (the working poor). you never will. you are not our megaphone. more of a megaphoney. rant over. but issues about homelessness on boards about 2 million dollar renovations is just surreal to me.

*r*

By onHalseySt on March 6, 2009 11:10 AM

rob -
it seems you have nothing better to do then post here. Get a job and maybe you dont have to move to a shelter. I know its not easy in this economy but there are jobs out there. So rather then being the first one to post on alomst everything on this blog... do something constructive with your time.

By bkny on March 6, 2009 11:13 AM

Rob - i am responding to you b/c i am bored at work. you are truly dillusional if you want to equate married adults to having 'roommate' benefits. for the record i never had a roommate in my adult life. i can 100% support my mortgage on my own income and you are truly pathetic!

By PitbullNYC on March 6, 2009 11:22 AM

"dillusional?" bread or butter? and well good for you that you never had to have a roommate. you = better than me. happy?

*r*

By InsertSnappyNameHere on March 6, 2009 11:24 AM

Rob, I know you don't need a defender, but I feel the need to say this. From what I understand, Rob does have a job. And, having a roommate as an adult does not make one pathetic. I am a 34 year old woman with a law degree (among others) who cannot find a job now for several months. I wish I had a roommate at this point to stem some of the financial hemmoraging I am experiencing. Along with my many degrees, I have in excess of $100k of student loan debt and I am struggling in a way that scares the living sh*t out of me. In today's economic crisis, none of us are safe. We could all wind up being a paycheck or handout away from winding up in the shelters that are the subject of this thread.

By bxgrl on March 6, 2009 11:43 AM

"you dont REALLY get us (the working poor). you never will. you are not our megaphone. more of a megaphoney. rant over. but issues about homelessness on boards about 2 million dollar renovations is just surreal to me."

rob- just so YOU know- I'm no gentrifyer. I've been middle class/working poor all my life and I get the idea far more than you ever will. I rent an apartment from a close friend and there have been days when -as a freelancer- I have no idea where the next dollar is coming from, so kindly STFU about what I do or don't get.

YOu really think the majority of people in these neighborhoods are lazy? I suggest you stop looking at everyone through the lens of you. The majority of people in these neighborhoods are not you, don't live like you, don't think like you and don't want to be you. I've lived in working class neighborhoods all my life- I believe the operative word is "working." not "lazy."

I don't know who yo think you speak for- but it ain't Crown Heights or Bed-Stuy.

By Return of The What on March 6, 2009 11:44 AM

"Sorry to put it bluntly, but alot of new people in CHN have payed 700,000 upwards for their houses....The kids go to private schools, we shop in the neighborhood, we shop elsewhere as well. Fairway trucks are a frequent sight. AND as you know, BEDFORD IS VERY CLOSE TO THE CHN/PROSPECT HEIGHTS BORDER (2 streets - Bedford to Franklin to Classon). So do you think that the homeless and drug intake persons will be confined to CHN and not wander into Prospect Heights too ? "

I almost spit coffee all over my monitor! Hey Asshead are you talking your book, LMMFAO! Let me guess the agent who sold you the dream said "They will close the shelter in a year" ROTFLMMFAO!!! crownheights2007 You got had!

"What the city is doing is neither right, nor ethical, nor moral. And probably not legal. Taxes paid in these neighborhoods go to provide services and infrastructure in yours, rob. You get better service in Park Slope. Your potholes are fixed sooner. You have nicer train stations (Grand Army plaza is gorgeous), and when people in Park Slope raise a fuss, it gets a better listen than when Crown Heights speaks."

But wait!!!! There was a Asshat Movement to the Ghetto, right????!!!! The Asshats drove up prices and now whine because the amenities are not there, LMMFAO! Oh man this is a Holla!!!

To the retards: The Bedford Shelter has been there since 1983 a span of 26 years and guess what Dumbasses?? Just because you moan and complain they will increase the amount of Homeless people there because people are losing their homes and apartments and the city don't want them on the street. Got it!

The What (Taste the rainbow)

Someday this war isgonna end..

By Return of The What on March 6, 2009 11:47 AM

"I am struggling in a way that scares the living sh*t out of me. In today's economic crisis, none of us are safe. We could all wind up being a paycheck or handout away from winding up in the shelters that are the subject of this thread."

That's right and the Asshead are worried about the shelter?? They should worry about other things right now!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

By Heather on March 6, 2009 11:49 AM

Thanks for bringing up the expensive food thing, Stoner. I was scrolling to the end to type it as I read.

I think a fear of poverty and the poor has been drilled into our culture over the last few decades. Poor people aren't scary. They're not really any different from those of you with roofs and jobs and internet connections. I think it's stupid to centralize the homeless when doing so is also taking them away from whatever ties they do have to their local communities -- and I think that is the better argument here. Not whether or not those that paid more for their houses should be entitled to more of a self-contained bubble than they already have.

By bxgrl on March 6, 2009 11:59 AM

Most of the "dumbasses" who are protesting the shelter are long time Black residents of CH and Bed-Stuy. CHNA was founded by Black Crown Heights residents whose families lived here for generations. This has nothing to do with gentryfiers and everything to do with them being tired of the city dumping on them. The rallies and legal actions were begun by these residents and their representatives. Gentrifyiers didn't do this for them. They are doing it for themselves. You should be supporting them instead of implying they are incapable of taking action or that they need to be led by gentrifyiers.

By crownheights2007 on March 6, 2009 11:59 AM

Heather, what makes you think that the all of these homeless people being bused from Manhattan originally hail from Crow Hill/CHN ?

By Return of The What on March 6, 2009 12:08 PM

" CHNA was founded by Black Crown Heights residents whose families lived here for generations. "

Well 26 years of trying resulted into a Fail. Maybe the Asshats can fare better.

" This has nothing to do with gentryfiers and everything to do with them being tired of the city dumping on them."

Right....

"You should be supporting them instead of implying they are incapable of taking action or that they need to be led by gentrifyiers."

No I have better things to do that precipitate in my own destruction...

The What (Hey the shelter in Lodi NJ is not bad, LMMFAO)

Someday this war is gonna end...

By brownstoner on March 6, 2009 12:10 PM

What,
We went to the community meeting in Crown Heights last summer, and we can assure you it was not a bunch of white arrivistes bitching and moaning. It was predominantly African American people who had been in Crown Heights for many, many years who didn't appreciate getting crapped on for the zillionth time.

By bxgrl on March 6, 2009 12:19 PM

And there we have it. The fake social outrage over the gentrification of Black communities exposed for the hypocrisy it is.

What- In your dreams you could only hope to accomplish one 10th of what these people have. The fail is all on your side. Enjoy the shelter in Lodi- oh and, could you not respond to any of my posts? I really don't want a dialogue with you. I mean, I know this is a public blog and all but if you don't like what I say, you don't have to respond. (Just taking a page from your rulebook- see, when you demanded to kn ow why I called you a hypocrite? This is why).

By daveinbedstuy on March 6, 2009 12:27 PM

"No I have better things to do that precipitate in my own destruction...
"

We used to precipitate liquids in the chem lab.

By Return of The What on March 6, 2009 12:29 PM

"We went to the community meeting in Crown Heights last summer, and we can assure you it was not a bunch of white arrivistes bitching and moaning. "

Brownstoner may I ask you a question???!!! When did I every use the the word "WHITE" in describing a Asshat?????? Asshats comes in all flavor Dumbass and I very upset that you would try to slide this augment sideways!!!!!!!!

"It was predominantly African American people who had been in Crown Heights for many, many years who didn't appreciate getting crapped on for the zillionth time."

The point that the retards don't get is the city will crap on you all the time!!!!! Why???!!! Because you don't count! All politicians take care of their constituents i.e. Rich People and Connected People, Got it!!!!!!!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

By ban on March 6, 2009 12:58 PM

Al Vann did NOTHING to fight this. I guess it's fine for him to let Bed Stuy and it's neighbor Crown Heights to be the dumping ground for the homeless and whatever else...Why do we vote for politicians that does stand up for us and with us??? Please elect a younger,more energetic and fearless representative to fight a good fight for all us in the Bed Stuy/Crown Heights!!!

By bxgrl on March 6, 2009 1:03 PM

well, he did show up at the first rally and make a nice, rousing speech. After that? Nowheres.

By East New York on March 6, 2009 1:10 PM

"And, having a roommate as an adult does not make one pathetic."

That's a matter of opinion.

By PitbullNYC on March 6, 2009 1:20 PM

whatever ENY. i'd rather have a roommate and live in a safe neighborhood than be stuck with my own studio way out in the bronx. and i think a lot of people feel that way too. i only have one roommate now and he's great with my dog. it's not like when i was living in harlem before that and had four other roommates ahhahah. now THAT was pathetic.

*r*

By ame_raleed on March 6, 2009 1:21 PM

It is good to see that this is getting some attention, but in general I think folks are missing the forest for the trees. The mayor is orchestrating a wholesale shift in the way that the homeless are dealt with, and chances are his policies will make folks like "r" happy on most counts. The story is hard to piece together, but it seems that the mayor is pulling back support for all the small programs, including many traditional "faith-based" groups which operate largely on volunteer efforts. These serve many of the homeless population today in ways that are better than the shelter system. There is not much press on this conversion from "boutique" to "big box" homeless services, but the best description I have seen is here:

http://www.nypress.com/article-19475-no-soup-for-you_.html

By bxgrl on March 6, 2009 1:26 PM

rob- the bronx wouldn't have you. YOu aren't good enough.

By bxgrl on March 6, 2009 1:33 PM

ame raleed- omig-d. This is horrible. Can he legally do this? I've always had the feeling he wanted to sweep the homeless under the rug (not pretty enough for Manhattan, you see) but this is utterly moronic. And unconscionable.

By East New York on March 6, 2009 1:52 PM

"i'd rather have a roommate and live in a safe neighborhood than be stuck with my own studio way out in the bronx."

GROW UP, work harder and show SOME evidence of responsibility, and maybe one day you'll be able to introduce some choice into your life and have a place of your own. But hey, that's just the way I see it.

By Heather on March 6, 2009 3:49 PM

I don't think they're residents of that area, CrownHeights2007. That's my point.

By BrooklynIsHome on March 6, 2009 4:54 PM

The primary reason that there is so much visible opposition to the proposed use of the Bedford Armory is that there have been several changes in political leadership. The community learned to organize itself when it wasn't being heard. Another reason is that the recently elected pay close attention to where the prime voters (voters who vote in ALL the elections)are located and cater to them. Of course, their local. Beyond Borough Hall, nobody cares.

Explore Neighborhoods:

Explore Neighborhoods:

Search Brownstoner

Update on the Bedford Armory Homeless Saga

54 Comments

Post a comment

Browse Featured Topics:

Browse Topics:

Restaurant Guide

Latest Restaurant Additions