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March 18, 2009

Strings Attached to CB2's Potty Vote

columbus-park-0309.jpgPark Slopers may not mind having a shiny new self-cleaning toilet plunked down in the middle of one of their most prominent public spaces, but some Brooklyn Heights residents are seeing brown over the idea. At a meeting Monday night, Community Board 2's Parks & Rec Committee voted 5 to 2 in favor permitting one of the pay toilets somewhere in the vicinity of Borough Hall and 360 Adams Street but went out of their way to voice opposition to the Department of Transportation's specific plan to place the potty in the public plaza called Columbus Park just north of Montague Street. "This is hideous," said committee member Nancy Wolf. “How will the Greenmarket people feel about having to put out their vegetables near where people are going to the bathroom?”
Update: A Toilet in the Park? [Brooklyn Heights Blog]
CB2 Says This Can Is A Can’t [Brooklyn Paper]
Photo by cybertaz689




Posted by Brownstoner at 9:31 AM | Comments (16)
Categories: Brooklyn Heights, Downtown Brooklyn, Quality of Life

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If this is not the ultimate proof that there is a contingent in this boro that is simply against ANY change I do not know what is.....for THIRTY YEARS NY City has been trying to address the severe lack of public restrooms and now FINALLY progress is being made and our NIMBY morons are now proclaiming a 'park' which is in every way simply a "plaza" as off limits. For god sakes the plaza already has a urnial right in the middle...oh forgot - thats an elevator.

Posted by: fsrg at March 18, 2009 9:48 AM

oh good lord. why are the green market people complaining? poo is organic you know.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at March 18, 2009 9:48 AM

tho i guess they just dont want poo mist in the plaza. when people need to go there's always a starbucks around.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at March 18, 2009 9:49 AM

Rob,

It's NOT the Greenmarket people complaining; it's a CB-2 member IMAGINING what they might think. FWIW I'd imagine that anyone working all day, out in the cold, at the Greenmarket would welcome a nearby clean facility

Posted by: Bob Marvin at March 18, 2009 9:55 AM

I suspect the NIMBY-ers may have this one right. Go to most any pay toilet a year after installation and tell me if you think it's a good idea.

Meanwhile, there are city-owned buildings all over that park/plaza. Any chance the public could use a bathroom somewhere in there instead of spending more money on new ones? Put up a sign that points people to one of the gazillion bathrooms you can use without going thru a metal detector? (Psst, the ones in the main borough hall buildings are the nicest.)

Posted by: Ringo at March 18, 2009 9:55 AM

Starbucks is right across the street from Borough Hall. One of the great amenities that Starbucks provides the community is restrooms for all.

Posted by: BH76 at March 18, 2009 9:59 AM

Ringo -
1. the city isnt "spending money" on toilets; it is making money on them - it was part of a billion dollar street furniture project that is responsible for the new bus shelters, news stands (and pay toilets) around the city.
2. Ive been to similar pay toilets YEARS after they have been installed (one near Herald Sq has been there for at least 4yrs and there was one in City Hall Park for over 2 years in the early 90's - last time the city tried this) and they are not a good idea - they are a GREAT idea - they self-clean and while not the palce where you'd want to sit with a newspaper and take a shit for 20mins - it is a great and necessary public amenity in any city.

Posted by: fsrg at March 18, 2009 10:11 AM

wait -- they're making a billion dollars on this?

I remember the herald sq debate. let me google... this from ny times, "The toilet in Herald Square, and its twin three blocks away in Greeley Square, cost the 34th Street Partnership a total of $587,000 to design and install, and $52,000 a year to maintain." 8/2003

but if we're making a billion dollars, I'm all for it.

Posted by: Ringo at March 18, 2009 10:27 AM

Try googling Cemusa - thats the franchisee - I do not beleive the Herald Sq toilet is part of that - but it is of similar design to what the city contract calls for (self-cleaning pay toilet)

Also see -

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/pr2008/pr08_002.shtml

Frankly given how many administrations failed at this - this should be recognized as one of Bloombergs greatest accomplishments - figures the NIMBYS are against it.

Posted by: fsrg at March 18, 2009 10:44 AM

I googled the Herald Square toilet since you mentioned it.

I read your link. I get it now. The billion dollars will come from advertising space on bus shelters, etc. Those aren't new dollars. The city makes money on bus shelters, newstands etc now. Sounds like we're buying a bunch of new things to make the same money as before. Okay. We need new bus shelters I'm sure. But I doubt the toilets throw off enough revenue to cover their cost and operational expenses. And plus, more ads in city parks? Is this all good? For a toilet people can sit in for 15 minutes? I'm still not sold.


Posted by: Ringo at March 18, 2009 11:01 AM

Ringo - I'll try one last time (mainly b/c I can not imagine how anyone could be so thick headed to not see the benefit of all this)

- the city is not paying one dime for the toilets maintenance or upkeep - Cemusa is and the entire franchise is estimated to bring in 1B in fees - the ad revenue is in addition

- Columbus Park - is not a park at all, its a plaza (at best)

- Public restrooms are an AMENITY (which virtually every other world class city has)

Here is a decent history:
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/10/a-pay-toilet-opens-no-need-to-hold-everything/

Posted by: fsrg at March 18, 2009 11:16 AM


The one at City Hall was great. It's a shame they're
not all around the city.
Here's the press release from the mayor's office.


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
PR- 442-06
December 19, 2006

MAYOR BLOOMBERG UNVEILS FIRST NEW BUS SHELTER AS PART OF
COORDINATED STREET-FURNITURE FRANCHISE

$1.4 Billion in New Revenue for the City

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg today unveiled the first of 3,300 new bus shelters to be installed under the City's Coordinated Street Furniture Franchise. The 20-year contract with Cemusa, Inc., will also furnish 20 new public toilets, replace 330 newsstands and generate roughly $1.4 billion in new revenue for New York over its lifetime. Cemusa installed the new bus shelter on Queens Boulevard at 82nd Avenue. Deputy Mayor for Economic Development and Rebuilding Dan Doctoroff, Transportation Commissioner Iris Weinshall, Department of Consumer Affairs Commissioner Jonathan Mintz and Cemusa CEO Toulla Constantinou also attended the announcement.

Posted by: buttermilk channel at March 18, 2009 11:31 AM

I'm only thick headed because we've spent a TON on this in the past.

But I get it now. They're in the business of selling ad space. We used to sell the ad space and now we've outsourced it, right? I get it. I think.

Posted by: Ringo at March 18, 2009 11:39 AM

Ringo - more or less correct and amazingly for NY - it looks like the timing was perfect - since you can bet the ad space is worth alot less today than when the deal was signed.

Posted by: fsrg at March 18, 2009 11:45 AM

I'm sitting on my couch right now which is steps from where I go to the bathroom, which is also steps from my kitchen where I prepare all my food! And steps from my front door and a public hallway! It's shocking!!

Posted by: WillBklyn at March 19, 2009 12:14 AM

Will, you are an (hilarious) animal. Would somebody please change his cedar chips?

Posted by: altervoce at March 19, 2009 7:04 AM

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