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March 18, 2009
Quote of the Day
Ok here is one part of this that was ignored. The police usually don't respond or do anything about drug dealing unless someone has a gun. They have to actually catch someone in the act of dealing to really arrest them. They are business people and have figured out how to do their business. They get sloppy now and then, but they are fully aware of how to play the law. If you call 911 about drug dealing, they will ask you if anyone has a gun. The gun part will seal the deal for them and they will make a move. Here is my theory. Everyone's gotta eat. There are people that have jobs and get paid and people that hustle and get paid. The cops know this. The city knows this. My experience in Brooklyn shows me that in any given neighborhood the MAJORITY rules. If the majority is Hasidic Jews, they dictate the behaviors and rules, In white neighborhoods, people sip wine on their stoops. In the Lower East Side the cops have been told not to respond to noise complaints because Bloomberg has declared it a "party zone" and it would be bad for business to tell the bars to keep the noise down. In poor and working class black neighborhoods there is a percentage of people that have to hustle to make a living. As long as that hustling is not hurting anyone, causing other crimes or drawing large numbers of complaints, then its business as usual. It keeps things status quo, people eat and no one gets hurt. Clampdown and well, what will folks do? Especially with high unemployment levels. The cops know its happening, but unless its really causing a problem to surrounding businesses and threatening people's lives they do nothing really. They can't, its majority rule basically. So until the majority swings the other way and people keep complaining, the 77th probably can't do much.
— by tomgee in Drug Dealing Hotspot in Crown Heights?
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Comments
Very insightful.
Posted by: Maly at March 18, 2009 3:48 PM
Dammit, I thought this was a guide on where to buy drugs in Crown Heights.
Posted by: Xander Crews at March 18, 2009 3:49 PM
It took us years to get a drug house closed down on a quiet residential street in the Slope even w/ actively involved neighbors.
Posted by: Arkady at March 18, 2009 3:56 PM
Can you elaborate? Why is tomgee wrong?
Posted by: Maly at March 18, 2009 4:00 PM
he is wrong because the police will respond to complaints of dealing, its just that unless they use undercovers, etc.... they arent going see anything except a bunch of people standing around. Even if they tossed everyone, no one is likely to be holding anything more than a bag or 2. So the cops learn quick not to (improperly) just toss everyone b/c of a 9-11 call (not worth the hassle) and short of that - the normal POs and Dets are powerless to do anything more then just drive by to get the dealers to move (for about 5min).
BUT if you call the precinct, 911 and go to the precinct community meeting and otherwise make a fuss - the NYPD will send over narcotic detectives to do buy-n-busts; which over time will help abate the problem (in that location)
long and short - its not that the 'cops' dont care - they are just restricted in what they can do.
Plus the idea that any of this is different "by neighborhood" (or majority population) is just ridiculous
Posted by: fsrg at March 18, 2009 4:07 PM
I think grossly overexagerated, and mostly wrong. Trying to sound real worldwise and streetwise and not succeeding.
Urban myths.
Posted by: Petebklyn at March 18, 2009 4:13 PM
To me, it looks like the 2 of you are in agreement. It's very difficult to have an impact these issues (as opposed to major crimes), so the cops will only do it if there is a strong and somewhat unified local push for them to enforce quality of life complaints.
Posted by: Maly at March 18, 2009 4:13 PM
Oh, cue the violins! How will the poor downtrodden drug dealers eat? What horseshit.
Posted by: sluggita at March 18, 2009 4:14 PM
FSRQ you kind of agreed with me in your post be reiterating what I was basically saying. Any you misquoted me by saying I said the "cops dont care." I never said that. And you reinforce what I said with your next line by saying they are restricted in what they can do, exactly. Believe me i have had experience with this problem. I know how it works. And the ideal of Majority rule in a neighborhood is completely true. I can give you thousands of examples of what goes on in one neighborhood and not in another because of who lives there. And if you ride around all the separate neighborhoods of Brooklyn you will see this clearly. Loud music parties until 5 or 6 in the morning in certain neighborhoods where in other neighborhoods they would be stopped in minutes. When I say loud, I mean with rented massive amplification. That just doesn't happen in Carroll Gardens. Believe me I have called the police about witnessing drug-dealing, they ask me if there is a gun and to describe the scene. A cop car will respond, but not much happens. Exactly as you described. I have gone to the DA and Narcotics with photos and had a sit down with them on what was going on. They said they would 'get back to me'. Then 6 months later asked if there was still a problem as if they were just getting to the complaint. I said yes, and they responded that they were very busy and would try to check into it. I was shocked to see this as the quote of the day. Anyway I am voicing my opinion and your disagreement to my opinion is weak in that is says the same thing with different words.
Posted by: tomgee at March 18, 2009 4:25 PM
"Plus the idea that any of this is different 'by neighborhood' (or majority population) is just ridiculous"
How is this ridiculous? There's proof of that everywhere!
Posted by: KHuebbe at March 18, 2009 4:26 PM
There's open drug markets in "gentrified" neighborhoods as well. They just happen in trendy bars and not on street corners.
Posted by: dirty_hipster at March 18, 2009 5:10 PM
as long as there is a demand the supply will always be there.
Posted by: Xander Crews at March 18, 2009 5:46 PM
"I have gone to the DA and Narcotics with photos and had a sit down with them"
you shouldve asked 4 officer "Jimmy" McNulty or his partner William Moreland aka "Bunk".
Interesting post but nothing new. Different parts of town different policies. Like fixing subway stations or streets. Drug dealing and usage on the streets is plain annoying and makes people feel unsafe. Where dealing occurs, crime related issues come with it. Reality is that drug busts higher street prices which means more crime and time to score. More drug busts means slowly moving the problem to other areas. Whats new ?
More complaining doesn't solve the cause of the problem only the symptoms in that particular area. But that's all we want: keeping our front yard clean. Why would we even slighly be interested in a bigger picture?
So Silly...
Posted by: dutchman at March 18, 2009 6:29 PM
Well Brownstoner you have succeed bring the Whinny Asshat crowd from Broolynain.com.
What a bunch of Posers!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at March 18, 2009 7:28 PM
I'm not sure that this deserved the quote of the day if only b/c the statements are so self-evident.
Of course different precincts have different priorities, and you have to scream the loudest to get noticed.
Posted by: slick at March 18, 2009 7:52 PM
TomGee is 100% right. I grew up in BK and thought I was pretty street smart until I owned and operated a business in Manhattan. I became somewhat friendly with an undercover cop who laid it all out for me. He knew exactly where each type of drug was being sold and sometimes produced. He also had relationships with the guys that ran the specific areas. As long as no "civilians" or non users were affected, he would let them operate. The head dealers know this and they kept everyone in line. Example: a fiend breaks into a car and steals a radio in the dealers territory. The dealer beats him down because it's bad for business.
It all depends on what neighborhood it's in. NYPD has a tough job. Community relations involve a lot more than going to a few parades and meetings. This is NYC. It takes a lot of cooperation to keep the gears running.
Posted by: DannyBKNY at March 18, 2009 11:31 PM
What, whinny is what a horse does. You mean whiney.
Posted by: dittoburg at March 19, 2009 8:44 AM
I spent two weeks last fall as a Kings County grand juror. We heard over a dozen cases involving drug busts. None were accidental arrests where a beat cop saw something suspicious going on. And none came from patrol cars responding to a call. They were very focused efforts using teams of narcotics detectives whose job was to spot, engage and arrest drug sellers working on specific blocks or corners.
It sounded like very productive work. They weren't fishing in unknown waters. If the cops targeted a a block, it was because they knew there was drug selling going on, and they knew if they made the effort, they were going to come away with some arrests.
So what makes them focus on one corner instead of another? I don't think it's ignorance. Sure, the police appreciate all the tips we citizens provide, but they already know where most of the hots spots are. But they have to deploy their resources. Lot of man hours involved in those narcotics teams. How are you going to pick your targets?
I expect all the obvious answers apply. Incidence of other crime in the area. The possibility of additional charges (eg, weapons possession). Repeated complaints from residents. A nudge from the city councilman. A nudge from the precinct captain. Maybe lots of blog postings makes a difference. (Taking photos probably not such a great idea!)
In short, don't expect the police to respond effectively to every call, but don't stop calling. Keep pestering them, and in lots of different ways. (How about an invitation to the precinct captain to speak to the local neighborhood/merchant/block association?) And get your neighbors involved. One angry resident is a crank. One hundred angry residents are something else.
The police can be effective. They put our local crack house out of business with a battering ram to the front door. But you've got to make them want to do it.
Posted by: uglyjohnny at March 19, 2009 11:37 AM
Did you really mean to say "majority rules?"
How do you figure? Really?
Posted by: reed at March 19, 2009 5:12 PM
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