Open House Picks: Six Months Later

Didn't the Berkeley house have an initial ask of over $2million? I seem to remember this was the case. Also, Mr. B, can you please list the in contract date - I'd be curious to know if this was just before or after Lehman (usually contract to close takes about 3 months). My husband looked at this house and said it was quite nice inside, and I agree that 16.7' is a fairly typical width for bstones (albeit on the narrower end for sure). I do think not long ago houses like this aimed to start their prices in the 2-3 million range, and went close to, at, or even above ask. And given the further deterioration of the market since this went into contract, I bet if it went on the market today, it would sell for less than 1.5. So, another example of why houses that once were 2-3million are heading for the 1-1.5 range. Perhaps not all of them, but enough to reset the comps.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at March 13, 2009 2:29 PM

Just to clarify, I totally agree that the Berkeley house would never have sold for 3 million at the peak, but I do think it would have aimed to set its ask *between* 2-3 million, for this house on the low end of that for sure - perhaps 2.1-2.3 - in fact, as I said, I believe its initial ask was over the $2mil mark. During the frothiest years, it was uncommon for houses to sell below ask and indeed sales above ask were common. That's all I meant. So, for such a house to sell for 1.5 in December 08 (and thus have gone into contract even earlier) says to me that yes, prices may come down fast and furious, as 11217 says.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at March 13, 2009 3:24 PM

FatLenny - as I said, my husband went to look at the Berekeley home and said it was quite nice, full of charming detail. I'm sure there might have been work to do (after all, most people say that's true of most brownstones unless they've had gut renovations) but relative to other brownstones, it was actually in very good shape. You sound a bit nervous that these declining values will affect your own home and you are probably right but how long ago did you buy?

Posted by: Miss Muffett at March 13, 2009 4:11 PM

Lenny, yes 16.7 is definitely on the S end of brownstones (I would say S = 16', M = 18', L = 20' and XL is 20+' but believe me there are plenty of 16-footers out there (and that extra half foot on this one is better than that) and I've also even see XS sizes (15') and have worked with an architect that has worked on Brooklyn houses as narrow as 12' (OK, that's extreme but still). So I would not say that 16.7 is "as narrow as they come". The other point that's been made many times on this blog is that sometimes 16 footers can feel as wide if not wider than the 20 footers since it's easier to knock out the walls to have one big open space the full width of the house, instead of having the more typical hallway and then a relatively narrow parlor (even in 20 footers). And evidently, $500 psf (or possibly less in the future?) is becoming the new market price for houses - comps do reset in rising and also falling markets.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at March 13, 2009 4:30 PM

Lenny - you can also see pictures of the Berkeley house on the Townsley and Gaye website - it's still up and as you can see from the photos, the house is in good condition with lots of old charm. Again, not saying it doesn't need some work but certainly not substantially more than most brownstones unless they were recently gut-reno'ed. I really would like to try to find the original ask (which I think was about $2mil) but Street Easy doesn't seem to have - anyone know where it could be found?

Posted by: Miss Muffett at March 13, 2009 5:10 PM

Woops, meant to say **above** 2mil, not about...

Posted by: Miss Muffett at March 13, 2009 5:10 PM

Brooklyn Greene - it's very hard to answer your question since there are so many variables. Re: using Berkeley house to compare - as I, guestia and others have pointed out, that house may not have needed much renovation; it really depends on the new owners. There was a house on Sterling a while back that many insisted needed tons of work, and then the new owner came on this list and pointed out they were basically just going to repaint. Also, what do you mean when you say the house like yours sold "not long ago"? There is a world of difference between 3 months and a year ago, and even between 3 and 6 months. Basically, there is pre- and post- crash, which started last Sept/Oct. Finally, how serious are you about selling? For sure, there are some buyers on the sidelines (I'm one of them and there are others on this list i.e. lechacal) and we might bite quickly for a house that is truly well-priced but that means that the seller is building in not only the declines that have already started to happen, but those that are expected for at least the next year (and if you are reading this list and the news regularly, those continuing declines are expected to be large).

It really is hard to throw out a specific number or percentage to you since each situation is very specific and that's why in this climate more than ever, if you are a seller, you need a very saavy broker to help you navigate the waters. Key things to keep in mind are that this climate (for sellers) will get worse before it gets better, and the out-the-gate price is especially important: I've been watching numerous properties that initially overreached and now are lingering with more and more price cuts, and I suspect they probably would have sold faster and possibly higher had they been more realistic from the start.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at March 13, 2009 9:50 PM

Re: PS 282 - the common perception among many PS parents is that it is a more "traditional" school - meaning emphasis on pretty strict academics, discipline, not a lot of free choice, etc. That does mean it's a bad school - in fact, there are definitely people who like that approach and think highly of the school. But there is another approach to education that favors more free choice, a more "play" oriented approach to learning, ample outside time etc. The District 15 schools (321, 107, 39, etc.) seem to appeal more to the those who favor the latter approach. Frankly, I have wondered if racism has also been at play among those who disparage 282 since the student body is overwhelmingly non-white. I myself never toured 282 so this is really more about what I hear through the grapevine since so many PS parents are understandably obsessed with what their public school options are...

Posted by: Miss Muffett at March 13, 2009 10:04 PM

Oy, I meant so say above that the academics, discipline etc. does NOT mean 282 is a bad school (please no flaming - just a typo - perhaps I've been on bstoner too much today since I'm making lots of typos).

Posted by: Miss Muffett at March 13, 2009 10:07 PM

The T&G website (like some other brokers) leaves stuff up on their site that says "recently sold" for a very long time so that may account for what seems like a lot of sales - many may be quite old but because they don't bother to update things there's no way to see that unless you've followed market closely enough to know when they sold (which I have in some cases)...

Posted by: Miss Muffett at March 14, 2009 2:43 PM