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March 25, 2009

More Mural Controversy

Last week it was the ODB mural in Bed Stuy that consumed the blogosphere; this week, it's a mural of another downed twenty-something Benjamin O'Garro. This one (at Vanderbilt and Myrtle) is controversial, explains The Local, because of O'Garro's reputation as a man about the Walt Whitman Houses with more than a passing familiarity with guns and drugs.

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Killa Ben!!!

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at March 25, 2009 10:48 AM

You something BHO? The retards are trying to rewrite history. Just like Rock and Roll...

The What (Bring on The Depression)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at March 25, 2009 10:50 AM

Why aren't there any murals to Vito Genovese, Lucky Luciano, Paul Kelly of the Five Points Gang, the Hudson Dusters, the White Hand Gang, Monk Eastman, Meyer Lansky & Benny Siegal?????

A thug is a thug is a thug.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 25, 2009 10:58 AM

"The retards are trying to rewrite history. Just like Rock and Roll..."

"His" story. "Elvis Presley aint got no soul...Bo Diddly is Rock 'n Roll"!

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at March 25, 2009 11:05 AM

Go DIBS!

Posted by: BrooklynIsHome at March 25, 2009 11:06 AM

I didn't know O'Garro so I can't comment on what sort of person he was. Still, with murals of him appearing ten years after his death, he obviously endeared himself to some people. Was he a thug, a drug dealer, a dangerous man? I wouldn't be surprised, but that doesn't appear to be all he was. People living in the area today presumably aren't being compelled to commemmorate O'Garro. He meant something to them. This doesn't mean he was an angel and it's consistent with his having been, in some contexts, a villain. That's the way it goes.

Posted by: White and Proud in Crown Heights at March 25, 2009 11:06 AM

Dave is right. I'm not into glorifying criminals.

Posted by: East New York at March 25, 2009 11:09 AM

actually no wandp anyone in the area could care less. its just that his family got this crew of retards to redo it:

http://baddesignblog.blogspot.com/2009/03/cut-above-rest.html

Posted by: eh at March 25, 2009 11:10 AM

"His" story. "Elvis Presley aint got no soul...Bo Diddly is Rock 'n Roll"!

Muddy Waters is delicious.... Tastes great with soul.....

Speaking of Elvis Presley you should watch this movie-- Only the Strong Survive.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0308672/

The What

Someday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at March 25, 2009 11:11 AM

ENY, so you didn't like "Bonnie and Clyde?"

Posted by: Heather at March 25, 2009 11:12 AM

Dave is right. I'm not into glorifying criminals.

Posted by: East New York at March 25, 2009 11:09 AM

They how about Ronald Reagan, George Bush (pops and son), Andrew Jackson???

Hey White and Proud in Crown Heights I told to get a T-shirt with that crap printed on it! It will go great with your neighbors. Maybe by the time they are finished you will have your own mural...

The What (Here we go!)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at March 25, 2009 11:16 AM

Heather, Bonnie & Clyde weren't from NYC. I loved the movie though. Did you know that Clyde Barrow was actually homosexual?

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 25, 2009 11:18 AM

Yes in fact I did. They kinda allude to that in the movie too.

Also, his worship of Faye Dunaway kinda gives it away. Although, I mean who doesn't?

Posted by: Heather at March 25, 2009 11:24 AM

"They how about Ronald Reagan, George Bush (pops and son), Andrew Jackson???"

Yes, they were criminals in their own way, too. They each effectively screwed over thousands of people. They shouldn't have any murals for these guys, either, in my opinion. I didn't know this Ben guy, but I am sure that like almost everyone, he had his good and bad points. Like White and Proud says, it's clear some people view him positively, just like some view Ronald Reagan, George Bush (pops and son) and Andrew Jackson positively. What are you going to do? I respect their feelings, but I may not agree.

ENY, so you didn't like "Bonnie and Clyde?"

You should read about them. They killed a lot of people, and even ROBBED armories! That said, some of my family have backgrounds in law enforcement, and I admit I am interested in the nature of crime. But like Dave said, crooks for the most part, are crooks.

Posted by: East New York at March 25, 2009 11:29 AM

I'm not into glorifying criminals, either, I'd much rather see a mural about someone like Dr. Ben Carson, the famous neurologist. (who is alive and well, even better).

Point taken about Vito Genovese, Meyer Lansky, et al, yet they are often glorified in far greater and more wide spread ways than this guy, and not too many people make a big deal of that. Hollywood, even the History Channel, has made many of them household words, and lots of people certainly have made money off of them. The fleeting attention of the blogging community will be the most attention he receives outside of his immediate friends and family.

This mural saddens me, more than anything else. This young man was loved by family and friends, had the capacity for caring about others, and could have been an asset and agent for change in his community. Instead, he also was a violent criminal, messed with some scarier people than he was, was the underlying cause of the death of children, and was himself the victim of an early violent death. What a waste.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at March 25, 2009 11:44 AM

"Why aren't there any murals to Vito Genovese, Lucky Luciano, Paul Kelly of the Five Points Gang, the Hudson Dusters, the White Hand Gang, Monk Eastman, Meyer Lansky & Benny Siegal?????"

DIBS, seems like they didn't have any artistic friends.

"Hey White and Proud in Crown Heights I told to get a T-shirt with that crap printed on it! It will go great with your neighbors. Maybe by the time they are finished you will have your own mural..."

What, that's hysterical!

Posted by: denton at March 25, 2009 11:45 AM

I meant the movie, which does glorify them. Yes, of course they were awful psychopaths. However, is a work of art that glorifies awful psychopaths bad because of this? It's a question.

Posted by: Heather at March 25, 2009 11:45 AM

Heather...I saw the car they were actually killed in once.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 25, 2009 11:54 AM

I saw James Dean's memorial.

Posted by: Heather at March 25, 2009 11:56 AM

And it's an interesting question, though I think a lot of context has to be supplied before we can try to answer it. If a movie "glorifies" bad people by exaggerating or distorting the historical record in certain ways, then I think we can reasonably criticize it on those grounds. At the same time, it is true that bad people can sometimes have remarkable talents and accomplish incredible things, and I don't think anyone is wrong to capture this in a film or other artwork.

It's been a long time since I watched Bonnie and Clyde, but I don't recall thinking that the characters there were too over-the-top or the portrayal of them too one-sided or romantic. As I say, though, it's been a long time...

Posted by: White and Proud in Crown Heights at March 25, 2009 12:00 PM

"ke White and Proud says, it's clear some people view him positively, just like some view Ronald Reagan, George Bush (pops and son) and Andrew Jackson positively. What are you going to do? I respect their feelings, but I may not agree."

East New York do you know what I can't stand???!! Hypocrisy!!!!!!!!!!! There are statues of these retards like Andrew Jackson! This guy murdered a whole fort in Mexico that was filled with Indians and Runaway Slaves women and children. Don't give me that Bullst*t ENY!!!!! I think you are smarted that that! Brownstoner and the Retards use Hypocrisy as a weapon!! This post like the ODB one is garbage!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at March 25, 2009 12:22 PM

Mural doesn't mean art. A memorial, sure, but just that.

Posted by: cb6 at March 25, 2009 12:23 PM

Whatta buncha drama queens you all are! Americans LOVE outlaws or haven't you noticed???

DIBS wrote:
Why aren't there any murals to Vito Genovese, Lucky Luciano, Paul Kelly of the Five Points Gang

Nope, no "murals" -- just generations of "glorify the thug" movies like, oh, The Godfather, Casino, Scarface, Gangs of New York...I'm sure you can fill in the rest. Oh, what's that?..Those are OK, but it's just so awful when other people do it?? It's all part of the dark side of human nature!!

Posted by: bridges at March 25, 2009 12:38 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44X3jCuNso0

Posted by: oneasternparkway at March 25, 2009 12:51 PM

"I meant the movie, which does glorify them."

Oh. Yeah, I enjoyed that movie. You raise a good point, as does Montrose. Criminals are regualrly glorified in our country. Bridges is right - America loves outlaws. But at the same time, almost everyone is afraid of crime. We're pretty schizophrenic.

"There are statues of these retards like Andrew Jackson!"

Not only that, he's on our money. You can't get any more glorified in this country. Thanks for calling me smart.

Posted by: East New York at March 25, 2009 12:56 PM

Hell, I bet Scarface was that O'Garra dude's favorite. I bet he had it on a loop on his iPhone! Or hadn't any of the gentle folk of Brownstoner freakin' NOTICED gangbangers wearing some sort of Godfather/Scarface/whatever signifiers. What's right when he calls you hypocrites

Posted by: bridges at March 25, 2009 1:08 PM

He died in 1995, bridges. No iphone.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 25, 2009 1:16 PM

LOL. Ok, his heavenly iPhone!

Posted by: bridges at March 25, 2009 1:42 PM

'East New York do you know what I can't stand???!! Hypocrisy!!!!!!!!!!! There are statues of these retards like Andrew Jackson! This guy murdered a whole fort in Mexico that was filled with Indians and Runaway Slaves women and children. Don't give me that Bullst*t ENY!!!!! I think you are smarted that that! Brownstoner and the Retards use Hypocrisy as a weapon!! This post like the ODB one is garbage!'

What -
Did this rambling, incoherent blather make sense in your head as you typed it?

Posted by: young archi at March 25, 2009 1:55 PM

long ago these murals where common for shot people who lived in the neighborhood
yes thugs and sometimes collateral
but the murals were a way to honor a lost life
to put it in your face that a life had been lost on that particular spot.

So now we whities (yes me too) all moved in where the thugs used to live and did their thing. good or bad.
Now we all got our cute little coffee shops-little restaurants-$9 a glass wine terraces and with our steep rent, we even might wanna raise our kids here. Yes, why should i be looking at this local whatyamecallit?

Posted by: dutchman at March 25, 2009 2:12 PM

"So now we whities"

ROTFLMMFAO!!!!!! WE WHITES???!!! Owwww ROTFF!!!!!

" all moved in where the thugs used to live and did their thing."

I think you have ketchup on your "Sheet"..

"Now we all got our cute little coffee shops-little restaurants-$9 a glass wine terraces and with our steep rent, we even might wanna raise our kids here."

Oh you mean like The Outpost and Olivia, right? I think the MAB is going to vaporized that idea.

"why should i be looking at this local whatyamecallit?"

whatyamecallit is what you call you mother...

"Did this rambling, incoherent blather make sense in your head as you typed it?"

Did someone say something?? Oh well...

The What (Tick...Tick... Tick...)

Someday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at March 25, 2009 2:37 PM

perfect sense mr what lets call it self reflecting sarcasm

Posted by: dutchman at March 25, 2009 2:49 PM

'Did someone say something?? Oh well...'

good one!

and, to think, it only took you 42 minutes to come up with that brilliant witticism...

You should definitely quit your day job (that, lets be honest, you probably don't have) and just bless us with your fatuous vitriol 24/7!

Posted by: young archi at March 25, 2009 3:01 PM

"'East New York do you know what I can't stand???!! Hypocrisy!!!!!!!!!!! There are statues of these retards like Andrew Jackson! This guy murdered a whole fort in Mexico that was filled with Indians and Runaway Slaves women and children."

What,

You must mean the Negro Fort incident in the Seminole Wars in Spanish Florida, not Mexico, as Andrew Jackson was never in Mexico (or Texas, for that matter). They were killed by a cannonball that exploded in the fort's ammunition storage, setting off the rest of the fort.

Nevertheless, your knowledge of this obscure incident is pretty impressive...if only you could write a sentence in English!

ps Native Americans were hardly innocent when it came to killing women and children settlers (19th Century Asshats), or owning slaves. That said, they always got the short end of the stick.

Posted by: sixyearsandcounting at March 25, 2009 4:37 PM

Sixyears,
lol @ '19th Century Asshats'

Posted by: etson at March 25, 2009 4:47 PM

" Native Americans were hardly innocent when it came to killing women and children settlers (19th Century Asshats), or owning slaves. That said, they always got the short end of the stick.

"Nevertheless, your knowledge of this obscure incident is pretty impressive...if only you could write a sentence in English!"

Where did Indians owned slaves?? And do you think the Indians was defending their homeland?? My GOD Why did I respond to you????

"ou must mean the Negro Fort incident in the Seminole Wars in Spanish Florida, not Mexico, as Andrew Jackson was never in Mexico (or Texas, for that matter). They were killed by a cannonball that exploded in the fort's ammunition storage, setting off the rest of the fort."

It was in Mexico! The US did a illegal action on foreign soil...

6 years and counting thanks you so much... You are a f*****ing retard...

The What (Bring on the depression)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at March 25, 2009 5:18 PM

What -

Comparing this guy to Andrew Jackson is so f$##ing ridiculous it makes me wonder: have you ever actually had a discussion with a real person? Your debate skills could use some sharpening...to say the least.

Andrew Jackson?
Really?

f#$#ing retard.

Posted by: young archi at March 25, 2009 6:58 PM

Where did Indians owned slaves?? And do you think the Indians was defending their homeland?? My GOD Why did I respond to you????

Being a native Oklahoman and a descendent of Choctaw freedman. Of course the 5 civilized nations owned slaves and they took their slaves to Indian Territory (present day OK) when they were forced to move from the Southeastern states.

Posted by: westcoastfantasy at March 25, 2009 7:21 PM

I don't care what any of you have to say about "The What". His comments are pure entertainment for me every night. Thanks for keeping me laughing during these depressing times.

Posted by: phillygirl at March 25, 2009 8:29 PM

"I don't care what any of you have to say about "The What". His comments are pure entertainment for me every night. Thanks for keeping me laughing during these depressing times."

I'm glad you enjoy my madness. These are strange days and historic times indeed...

westcoastfantasy maybe you can learn something everyday. I will investigate it.

The What

Someday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at March 25, 2009 8:44 PM

Westcoastfantasy is correct. What, if you can support your claim that Florida was in Mexico, or alternatively that Andrew Jackson did that in Mexico, let me know!

Posted by: sixyearsandcounting at March 25, 2009 11:20 PM

Indians owned slaves
Indians operated a number of successful businesses, including cotton plantations worked by slaves not much different from those owned by white southerners. Along the Natchez Trace, which ran from Tennessee to the Mississippi River, the Choctaw and Chickasaw.

It was also mentioned in American Lives
where Don Cheadle was confronted with the fact that the chickensaw tribe enslaved his ancestors

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/aalives/videos/index.html

Posted by: dutchman at March 25, 2009 11:50 PM

"Westcoastfantasy is correct. What, if you can support your claim that Florida was in Mexico, or alternatively that Andrew Jackson did that in Mexico, let me know!"

Check this out: The score is The Assheads 2 The What 129! I know what you saying we got him but I'm a big dude and learned something today. Thank guys!

Now remember about the "Hypocrisy" thang, Ok Dumbasses...

The What (You can learn alot from a dummy)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at March 26, 2009 12:34 AM

I read everyone's comment. This is int. I drive by there all the time. My friend's grandmother lives on Vanderbilt (over 20yrs) and I never knew the history behind that young man. I had no idea he was into drugs and guns... i swore he was a good young man that was murdered because of nonsense. Does anyone know the truth behind his death? And why did the revamp it? Do you need permission from the Community Board before painting things on walls?

Posted by: Garnett at April 30, 2009 1:24 PM

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March 25, 2009

More Mural Controversy

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