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March 4, 2009
House of the Day: 216 17th Street
A real brownstone in Park Slope for $1,499,000? Yes, but, before you get too excited, it's 17-feet wide, in the South Slope and needs work (it's been in the same family for 58 years, after all). It's not all bad at 216 17th Street, though. There are some nice architectural details and the taxes are only $3,400. Any takers?
216 17th Street [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
I don't think I've ever walked down 17th before. I had no idea that between 4th and 5th would be lined with traditional looking brownstones like this.
Definitely a promising deal. That backyard looks scary though.
Posted by: 11217 at March 4, 2009 1:24 PM
Are you kidding me?
How is this Park Slope?
Posted by: sam at March 4, 2009 1:26 PM
weirdest layout ever.
Posted by: gkw at March 4, 2009 1:30 PM
Yeah, its not exactly Park Slope but it is an intriguing house. Some really nice details and the block itself looks gorgeous. Layout is a bit wacky and somehow the bottom duplex only manages to have one bedroom. Someone with the means to do so could make it a really nice one family. Square footage is exaggerated on the listing (surprise--not). 17x40x4=2720, but that is a fairly minor quibble compared to some. I like this house a lot actually.
Posted by: wasder at March 4, 2009 1:30 PM
This is so not Park Slope it's funny, Its on the other side of the expressway!
It's Off-the-Shoulder Slope.
Posted by: sam at March 4, 2009 1:33 PM
If you could get this puppy home for 1.2 or 1.3, you could spend a couple hundred thousand on an incredible reno and have a terrific house in a SUPER location for 1.5 or so.
That area of the South Slope (if that's what we're calling it) is really great these days. Sidecar is down there on 5th, and there are 2 new restaurants/bars on that section of 5th opening up soon.
Posted by: 11217 at March 4, 2009 1:33 PM
what neighborhood is this, exactly?
Posted by: Fjorder at March 4, 2009 1:34 PM
Windsor Terrace, I guess.
Posted by: Maly at March 4, 2009 1:36 PM
Definitely not Windsor Terrace.
I'd say Greenwood Heights.
Posted by: 11217 at March 4, 2009 1:38 PM
I can't make heads or tails of the weird layout but I love all the original details. This is a really nice find with so much potential.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at March 4, 2009 1:39 PM
We know Sam. Do you have anything of importance to add, or are you simply going to comment all day about how it's not shi shi enough, therefore can not be Park Slope?
It's like a block to Park Slope and the way you're talking about it, it's in Coney Island.
Posted by: 11217 at March 4, 2009 1:42 PM
It's Greenwood Heights. This place is around the corner from me and this block is overall gorgeous. Only issue is this is the block with the entrance to the Expressway.
Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at March 4, 2009 1:46 PM
Sunset Park. At least the beginning of it.
Posted by: ou812 at March 4, 2009 1:47 PM
This is really Greenwood Heights.
Calling it Park Slope is just a lie. It makes the sellers seem less than honest.
Posted by: sam at March 4, 2009 1:49 PM
Greenwood Heights? Never existed until the realtors got involved. "The Heights", please.
Posted by: ou812 at March 4, 2009 1:50 PM
Ou812, call it what you will. Ask the people on that street where they live and they say Park Slope (I know two people who live on this block and they insist on PS). Ask folks around the corner, they say GH. In the end, I suppose it matters not.
Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at March 4, 2009 1:51 PM
Don't under estimate Sunset Park. As you go further out into the 40's and 50's, entire blocks are Brownstone, Limestone, and Brick. Next wave (who knows how many years) will get there as well. They won't be pretending to be anything else at that point.
Posted by: ou812 at March 4, 2009 1:55 PM
Ask people in Concord Village where they live and they will say "Brooklyn Heights". But saying it doesn't make it so.
Posted by: sam at March 4, 2009 1:58 PM
That block is the on-ramp to the Prospect Expressway so it always has a lot of traffic. Based on the map, this house looks like it's closer to 5th Ave and past the ramp so that's a little better. Oh but the Expressway is at the end of your backyard. Cute house but I wouldn't want to live there if I could avoid it.
Posted by: WTGuy at March 4, 2009 2:00 PM
I know 3 people who live in Concord Village and they've only said they live in Downtown Brooklyn to me. NEVER said Brooklyn Heights.
Guess you travel in circles where people like to falsify their true self, Sam.
Posted by: 11217 at March 4, 2009 2:01 PM
If the expressway is right behind the backyard that certainly diminishes my enthusiasm.
Posted by: wasder at March 4, 2009 2:03 PM
The expressway is quite a bit underground compared to the streets. It's really not all that bad.
Posted by: 11217 at March 4, 2009 2:07 PM
When the expressway is below ground like that (but not buried), it is actually louder than if it were at ground level. That is my perception anyway, based upon walking along Ocean Parkway.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at March 4, 2009 2:13 PM
A long time ago, "North", "Central", "Prime", "South", and "South South" Slope never existed. All realtor creative writing. We had but simply "Park Slope". Never heard of "Greenwood Heights" either, it was Windsor Terrace. After the highway, it was Sunset Park, just before Bay Ridge. That was the extent to which the neighbors hoods were divided, unless you wish to venture West to Red Hook, Carroll Gardens, and the only "Heights" Brooklyn Heights. Collectively, known as SOUTH BROOKLYN. Hence the old "SO"8-1234 in your phone numbers for "South" before area codes were required. You are correct snappy, in the end it matters not except for maybe the newbie wanting to impress their collection of friends by wanting to be able to claim a residence in Park Slope these days and the realtor trying to squeeze dollars.
Posted by: ou812 at March 4, 2009 2:14 PM
The address is an even number, which I think puts it on the other side of the street from the expressway. The photo sure doesn't look like there is an expressway behind the house.
I think it's overpriced relative to the market. I feel like I've seen better for less, depending on how much work the place really needs. How much premium does a brownstone get over say a brick house? It doesn't seem filled with lovely detail either. And I've felt like 4th/5th ave is overvalued for a while now. Obviously there are people who disagree with that.
Posted by: MR at March 4, 2009 2:17 PM
The expressway isn't in the backyard. Look at photo #15. It shows that the back of the house faces other houses.
Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at March 4, 2009 2:19 PM
> "The address is an even number, which I think puts it on the other side of the street from the expressway."
You are correct. Ignore my irrelevant - but undoubtedly scintillating - previous comment.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at March 4, 2009 2:20 PM
This neighborhood is called "On-ramp to the Prospect Expressway Slope South"
Posted by: Bklnite at March 4, 2009 2:21 PM
i wouldn't necessarily want to live this close to the expressway either but it looks like it's on the other side of the street (no expressway in the backyard) and past the onramp, so that traffic wouldn't necessarily be driving past the front of the house
Posted by: 11215 at March 4, 2009 2:21 PM
Regardless of what neighborhood anyone wants to call this (I'm so done with the PS, GH, SP neighborhood boundary argument), this is a gorgeous block. I invite you all to walk it once and see what I mean. The subway is right on the corner at 4th Ave and the 5th Ave bus is steps away as well - highly convenient. I won't say anything about the pricing as I have no clue what this should cost.
Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at March 4, 2009 2:23 PM
express way, plus good back fence means lots of light and not too bad noise,
but i don't like that side of the expressway, i'd rather buy a smaller windsor terrace limestone or woodframe for 1.5 that only needs a little reno...
Posted by: sender9999 at March 4, 2009 2:26 PM
If walk it once, watch your step if you're on the north side of the block, or you may get run over by traffic making the turn on to the highway.
Posted by: Bklnite at March 4, 2009 2:29 PM
So, in conclusion, this is a great neighborhood if you'd like to be able to be within walking distance of the cemetery.
Posted by: Maly at March 4, 2009 2:31 PM
"After the highway, it was Sunset Park, just before Bay Ridge."
Yep, that's the way I remember it. What's interesting is that in their NYTimes listing, the brokers classify this house as being in Sunset Park. Slip?
Posted by: bk14 at March 4, 2009 2:35 PM
The upper part of the block is very nice as well as the south side this house is one. The on ramp is a sharp left immediatley covered by the houses on the north side. The train is 25 minutes to mid-town via Pacific ST. Express, the only real nuisance is the traffic just before the on ramp coming off of 4th ave or up from 3rd. It is heavy, but you will notice most traffic enters the on-ramp. No opinion on cost. It's worth what someone is willing to pay.
Posted by: ou812 at March 4, 2009 2:41 PM
Question: how is street parking around here. My impression is that this area has easier parking than PS or other areas, which to me at least make it actually a little more appealing.
Posted by: infinitejester at March 4, 2009 2:44 PM
I'm new to the area and consider myself a South Sloper. Am I wrong to think that everything between 9th street and the expressway, 4th avenue and Prospect Park South constitute "South Slope"?
Naturally, within that wide area, some areas are substantially nicer than other. This block does have charming brownstones, which I believe face the expressway.
Posted by: Stuart at March 4, 2009 2:46 PM
Street parking sucks regardless of boundaries. Walk along 4th and you will see the same high rise condos going up as on 4th street. (Excuse me "Gowanus") The one on the corner of 17thand 4th is a prime example where the old Wig Factory used to be. Look further south and you'll see even more. It will get worse when these buildings all come on line. The inside parking ratio is not 1:1.
Posted by: ou812 at March 4, 2009 2:52 PM
Positives: nice details, original floors, & good looking block
Negatives: located near an Expressway, 17ft narrow, poor lay-out, needs major renovation, and Greenwood Heights is not PS.. false advertising is annoying but expected in that profession.
Hhm way overpriced considering that place metaphase mentioned....sorry but not a cent more than $1.1m in our opinion.
Posted by: pierre de taille at March 4, 2009 2:55 PM
Stuart, I too would consider this South Slope , possibly GH.
You'd think the Corcoran broker could spend an extra five minutes on a better description. Is this set up as a 2fam?
The facade looks in need of repair. The inner layout is horrible. The 'garden' needs help. This house is WAY over-priced when you consider that it will cast a half million to do exterior work and the interior work needed to fix the layout while preserving the detail. In fact is one of the most seriously overpriced houses I've seen here in a while.
Posted by: denton at March 4, 2009 3:00 PM
I dont think the layout is that bad at all. Convert into an owners triplex over a garden rental. Living, kitchen and powder room on 2nd level, 2 bedrooms and full bath on 3rd level and master suite on the top floor with master bath with 2 walk-in closets. All that without taking too many walls down. I wish I wasnt so tied to Chicago.
Posted by: cityonthemake at March 4, 2009 3:02 PM
Looked at the map. It's on the other side of the expressway. It's in Greenwood Heights. That's an ambitious asking for a townhouse in Greenwood Heights. On the plus side, there are a row of houses between it and the expressway.
Posted by: Stuart at March 4, 2009 3:02 PM
The Official NYC Bus Map has all of the neighborhoods listed on it's map. Zoom in and they appear in Blue.
http://www.mta.info/nyct/maps/busbkln.pdf
I don't see "Greenwood Heights" on the map. Are the "Heights" not quite the Slope but better than Sunset Park?
Posted by: ou812 at March 4, 2009 3:23 PM
I generally think South Slope ends at the expressway, but if I had a friend who lived at this address and said they lived in South Slope I wouldn't argue.
I think the thing about the layout that is weird is the Kitchen on top. Why does each of the two duplexes have a bedroom sharing the kitchen? I suppose that's easy to fix.
I wonder what a duplex would rent for at that location. This probably makes more sense as a triplex and garden rental, but that means moving the kitchen. In my opinion making this into a sensible layout would cost 300-400k. That makes this place overpriced for that side of the expressway in my opinion.
Posted by: MR at March 4, 2009 3:30 PM
"The train is 25 minutes to mid-town via Pacific ST. Express"
Only if you don't count the fifteen minutes it takes to get from Prospect Avenue to Pacific on the local and then wait there to transfer to an express train.
Posted by: Sparafucile at March 4, 2009 3:59 PM
Geez!
you guys are a picky bunch-hahaha
ok, so it's not "really" Park Slope and it's a bit overpriced.
but let's look at it this way:
It's a good ol house with some solid details that you can bring to life if you have the money for renovation. It's on a treelined street that may/may not sit on the expressway, but it's only 2 blocks from some of the good happenings that South Slope has to offer like Sidecar and Southside Coffee
I think they can get 1.2ish for this
Posted by: gemini10 at March 4, 2009 4:04 PM
Not Park Slope.
Posted by: lechacal at March 4, 2009 4:10 PM
ok - I have to get into this
as someone who is married to someone BORN IN PARK SLOPE in 1970s, there was never a neighborood called "Greenwood Hts". Either lived in Park Slope or Sunset Park.
His best friend growing up lived on 21st street and 6th avenue - he too lived in Park Slope. The difference back then regardless of what street you lived on was whether it was the nice/relatively safe part of Park Slope (let's say 3rd street and 7th avenue) vs. going to the parts PAST 12th street from 7th on to 4th avenues
This is from someone who grew up in Park Slope
Posted by: gemini10 at March 4, 2009 4:24 PM
not a penny over 999k (and even that's a bit high). who would pay the mansion tax to live on a highway on-ramp in windsor terrace? i wouldn't live a block from a highway at any price, but that's just me.
Posted by: jingle mail at March 4, 2009 4:40 PM
the actual park in sunset park is at 40th street and this place is on 17th! they are totally different neighborhoods, but call it whatever you will - the name greenwood heights has been in use since the late 90's...does it really matter?
but what i find amusing is that a bunch of posters are saying it's on the "wrong" side of the expressway, meaning it's inferior to south slope. well, i live in this area and personally find the area south of the expressway (say 17th st. to 23rd street) to be much more desirable than the area between 9th st. and 16th street. crime is almost nonexistent, and people are friendly.
there are some great bars/restaurants on 5th ave. between 17th and 23rd, and many other small businesses - just a great neighborhood overall.
the house is priced ok, although i agree the layouts are bizarro. i'll bet it sells for no less than 1.2 if the structure and mechanicals are ok.
Posted by: appoggiatura at March 4, 2009 4:54 PM
offer 699K
Posted by: Xander Crews at March 4, 2009 4:56 PM
appoggiatura-
I see "other" side, "that" side. You are the first to call it the "wrong" side.
I think you are probably right about the price.
Posted by: MR at March 4, 2009 5:04 PM
I feel too this will go at around 1.2ish
Posted by: gemini10 at March 4, 2009 5:06 PM
I saw this last August, when it was being listed for $1.38M by a less glamorous broker:
http://www.traceyrealestate.com/view_details.php?ID=BT08479
It needs work, and you can even tell from the pictures that the brownstone facade is in bad shape. I am rather surprised that Corcoran is trying to ask for more.
Posted by: infirm at March 4, 2009 5:12 PM
MR,
that's why i used quotes for the word "wrong" - i'm drawing inferences from at least three or four posters who think it should be priced lower because it's south of the prospect expy. whatever...
Posted by: appoggiatura at March 4, 2009 5:26 PM
I can't see this property, in this location, in this condition, going for a million, let alone over a million.
Posted by: sam at March 4, 2009 5:38 PM
Well no offense, but it SHOULD be priced lower.
That's the market talking.
Everyone here is just reflecting that. You like it better south of the expressway, that's great. You get to live somewhere cheaper AND live exactly where you want. I wouldn't expect you to offer the seller Brooklyn Heights money just because you like it better than BH.
A lot of that talk is due to the broker calling it Park Slope, which it is not.
I don't really see a lot of judgment talk here about the location being "worse" except for it's possible proximity to the expressway.
Posted by: MR at March 4, 2009 5:54 PM
We didn't know this was priced earlier in August @$1.35m. Well we live in a different world today Corcoran and this place didn't appreciate an extra $150k in value during these hard times ( no its not the end of time just a Great Recession ). Our $1.1m estimate was excessively generous here folks....jingle mail we agree $999K is more realistic but time will tell.
Posted by: pierre de taille at March 4, 2009 6:43 PM
This house seems a tad pricey for that location in this market, but who knows. Maybe the price is high, because they expect less?
Posted by: witchdoctor at March 4, 2009 7:50 PM
the price is retarded but...
I walked down this street a few months ago and was amazed at how awesome it was. 700k in the real world.
Posted by: Santa at March 4, 2009 8:36 PM
You folks are still smoking crack. It's worth 800k tops in this market.
I wouldn't even pay that. . .
Posted by: IronBalls at March 4, 2009 10:08 PM
apart from what folks born in the 70's in PS might think, greenwood has been a neighborhood since LONG before then. GW Heights, might be modern iteration, but GW is old school. take a walk around. look at some of the old business. check the historical maps, etc. gw is there for all to see.
seems like sometimes people historical perspective only extends to the length of their (young) lives.
Posted by: pluvious at March 5, 2009 9:56 AM
People who live in this neighborhood call it all sorts of names, and this has gone on for a long time. Not sure why people can never get past this and just discuss the house. It's a nice neighborhood near park slope and near the cemetery.
17th and 18th both have brownstones and brick townhouses with detail and scale that done exist on blocks in the south slope or other greenwood blocks-
This block is really nice- families, trees, really nice houses. There is an incredible brick and terracotta romanesque townhouse on this block that's one of the prettiest in the generalized park slope area.
The highway entrance near fourth ave is a bummer- but it you live on the other side of the street, and closer towards 5th ave, you would never notice.
There's a subway stop on the corner which is convenient, and makes for good pedestrian traffic on the block.
Posted by: Park Place at March 5, 2009 10:39 AM
Pluvious,
Please post up one of your historical maps. I would like to see GW or GWH on the map. Being someone not born in the 70's and not fitting your description of "Young Lives", you comment about "Long Before Then" and "Old School" has piqued my interest. In other words, I never heard of it!
Posted by: ou812 at March 5, 2009 1:39 PM
Well, it is selling for $1.095 K.
Posted by: spqrxxi at November 20, 2009 3:04 PM
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