« Last Week's Biggest Sales House of the Day: 365 Parkside Avenue »
March 3, 2009
Co-op of the Day: 344 6th Avenue, #2
This floor-through brownstone co-op at 344 6th Avenue (between 4th and 5th Streets) is attractive but not a show-stopper. The bay windowed-living room is the nicest part of apartment; the kitchen is pretty blah and the bedrooms, while attractive, are on the narrow side. The sellers cost basis for this place is $610,000 from back in '05, so the current asking price of $665,000 is reasonable in that context (and the monthly maintenance of $520 is pretty low too). That said, we'll be surprised if this one clears $600,000. We shall see.
344 6th Avenue [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
Bid 12 percent over comps! Oh just kidding.
Posted by: mopar at March 3, 2009 12:44 PM
makes a lot more sense than yesterday's co-op of the day. Still too much though.
Posted by: the chicken at March 3, 2009 12:52 PM
First of all the location sucks, secondly, give me a break with the 8 foot wide bedrooms, and lastly a walk up for $665,000? When strollers fly!
Posted by: mcKenzie at March 3, 2009 12:53 PM
cant comment on the price, but that the 'master bedroom' is awfully narrow to me. and will say that this center slope location is ideal, versus the north slope where i live. walking to nysc or barbes on a cold day is brutal.
Posted by: goldie at March 3, 2009 12:55 PM
Great Location b/c it's quiet and pretty
Apt is realllly kinda blah- that kitchen needs loving
also the bedroom is very narrow
Posted by: gemini10 at March 3, 2009 12:59 PM
this makes yesterday's apartment at the St. George look pretty attractive in comparison. In all respects.
Posted by: mcKenzie at March 3, 2009 1:02 PM
They overpaid in 2005. No one is going to overpay for it today.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at March 3, 2009 1:15 PM
so, if they overpaid, what do they do now? Bring a check to closing? Stay there indefinitely? I agree that the apartment is pretty blah, on an avenue, etc., but they aren't trying to do anything but cover their costs for a realtor and taxes from the sale.
Posted by: wishinone at March 3, 2009 1:18 PM
I've been stifling myself, since I feel like a broken record, but when are the brokers coming down to earth? The piece in the NYT real estate section this weekend suggested reality was beginning to seep in -- that brokers realized folks care more about square footage and location than the type of refrigerator, but the BS pervades all of these descriptions. "Real" bedrooms? Free heat? Come on! I think Corcoran and Warren Lewis are probably the biggest offenders, but that may be because the former is still the dominant firm in our market.
Posted by: househunt at March 3, 2009 1:22 PM
So if you overpaid and have to move -- you have to expect to take a loss. There is not entitled return on housing.
Posted by: BH76 at March 3, 2009 1:23 PM
BH76- Agreed. Either ride out the market (because it will come back up eventually) or take the hit. I'm guessing this will languish at the current price.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at March 3, 2009 1:32 PM
I think it is interesting to note that the difference in carrying costs (mortgage and maintenance) between this little walk-up with a tiny bedroom and one bath and yesterday's 8th floor unit with two baths and big bedrooms is approximately $12,000 a year. I don't think that is very much considering the world of difference between this walk-up new-law tenement and the magnificent St. George tower in the heart of Brooklyn Heights.
Posted by: sam at March 3, 2009 1:38 PM
"so, if they overpaid, what do they do now? Bring a check to closing? Stay there indefinitely?"
Ummm... Those are the two options, yes. Although if they made any kind of down payment at all, they shouldn't have to bring a check to closing.
It looks like that fireplace in the master bedroom is going to eat the bed.
Location is nice. Shame the space is so narrow.
Posted by: northsloperenter at March 3, 2009 1:40 PM
There is a similar place for sale on 15th Street right now--a little smaller but with a much nicer kitchen, 1.5 baths and a huge backyard. It's $599K and the open house was pretty dead. Based on that, $665K looks overpriced.
Posted by: darkandstormy at March 3, 2009 1:40 PM
"When strollers fly!"
lmao. You know, now I'm going to think of this every time I lug a stroller up to the third floor...
Posted by: northsloperenter at March 3, 2009 1:41 PM
an extra $1,000 a month cash outflow would be pretty significant for most people. Maybe not in Sam land though.
Posted by: the chicken at March 3, 2009 1:42 PM
The Chicken,
You are absolutely correct that an additional $1000 a month is a HUGE sum when talking about a home of this price range. It's the difference between being affordable....and not.
This place is roughly $3600 per month with maintenance.
The BH place is around $4700 monthly.
That ain't close.
Posted by: 11217 at March 3, 2009 1:49 PM
chicken, $12,000 is what a cheap used car costs.
Are you aware how much one has to pay a month for a 6 or 7 or 8 hundred thousand dollar mortgage?
I won't get into the debt service on the multi-million dollar rowhouses seen on this site every day.
This ain't child's play.
Also, much of that "extra" $1000 a month is tax-deductible.
Posted by: sam at March 3, 2009 1:50 PM
That's 12,000 per year for 30 years ($360,000).
For some of us, that is real money. And many (most?) of us don't have cars. Cheap, used, or otherwise.
Posted by: northsloperenter at March 3, 2009 1:54 PM
For some of us, a "cheap used car" is 5K...Not 12k.
http://newyork.craigslist.org/wch/ctd/1058531182.html
Just because you overpay for things, doesn't mean everyone else does.
Posted by: 11217 at March 3, 2009 1:54 PM
Of course, working for a fancy-pants hedge fund, $12k is immaterial for me ;)
But it's that kind of thinking that has got the world to it's current precarious situation. "Don't worry, we can always finance it".
As 11217 points out, it is a big difference given the assets being compared.
Posted by: the chicken at March 3, 2009 2:01 PM
11217, 84k miles is barely running in for that Passat. An ex-neighbour of mine took his to 300k!
Posted by: the chicken at March 3, 2009 2:03 PM
11217, I don't think this is a very convenient location, and I don't like living in a tenenment on Sixth Avenue. We all have our standards. The idea of shlepping all the way from Grand Army Plaza and then hiking up the stairs with the baby and grocerioes in tow, forget it. What is this? nineteenth century Slobobia? Fuhgeedit.
I like the prime blocks of Park Slope, otherwise, you can have it, its just a more expensive version of the lower east side.
Posted by: mcKenzie at March 3, 2009 2:06 PM
I know it! Looks like a nice car for 5k bucks!!
Don't want or need a car though...
Lots of nice looking cars on craigslist for 5-6K...even some BMW's and Volvos.
Posted by: 11217 at March 3, 2009 2:06 PM
wait.
good luck finding an apartment this size for this price anywhere in the LES.
Posted by: Santa at March 3, 2009 2:16 PM
Lots of nice looking cars on craigslist for 5-6K...even some BMW's and Volvos.
-good luck with those!
At least a cheap 12,000 car will not leave you stuck in the middle of the Brooklyn Bridge when you are driving it home.
You guys are characters!
$12,000 is too much for a car, but $665,000 is a great deal for a dinky little tenement apartment three long blocks from the Park.
I think this site has been taken over by teenage realtors.
Posted by: sam at March 3, 2009 2:20 PM
Just can't admit when you're wrong, can you Sam...?
Just found you what most "normal" people would consider a "nice, cheap used car" and you still can't see the light.
Posted by: 11217 at March 3, 2009 2:33 PM
And I'm not sure a single person here said that the price on this place was a good one.
I think we are saying that your assertion that the difference between yesterday's co-op of the day at $4700 per month and today's at $3600 per month is chump change.
Could you be any more out of touch?
Posted by: 11217 at March 3, 2009 2:36 PM
I don't know where to begin disagreeing with you Sam.
$665k is too much for this place but since I'm in Team Bear that is a given from me. But anyone in the market for this place is realistically priced out of yesterday's COTD.
$12k is not too much for a car but then again, neither is $5k. Really depends what you want from your car. There's no reason for a $5k car to not be reliable if it's been looked after.
Posted by: the chicken at March 3, 2009 2:36 PM
Offer $550k.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at March 3, 2009 2:43 PM
Whether or not the location sucks depends on what you prioritize.
I'm pretty sure this spot would be in PS 321. There is a park and farmers market (spring-fall) on 4th st. 5th ave.
Three blocks from the park qualifies as a plus, not something to sneer at.
Admittedly not especially close to any of the subway lines, but not all that far from the 2/3 at Bergen, the R, or the F.
It's still overpriced, but pretty much everything is.
Posted by: northsloperenter at March 3, 2009 2:47 PM
Hey guys, easy with the insults, my pont is merely that the two apartments we are discussing are basically the same price, say $650,000. The difference is the maintenance, one is $500 an month, the other %1500.
Say you have a decent income (and you can afford to buy a new car) but only enough saved up for a downpayment on a $650,000 apartment. For an extra say, $500 a month (after your tax deduction) you can live in a full-serve, fireproof, elegant, apartment building in the heart of Brooklyn Heights, half a block from the subway. Or you could live in a walk-up tenement apartment with no services (or fire escape) on Sixth Avenue about a mile away from the subway. I don't know what is so "out of touch" about saying that the first option looks better. Naturally, if you're broke, neither one is doable, but if you are say, a succesful young couple, the choice is a no-brainer. Over and out. Good luck with the jalopy shopping on Craig's list!
Posted by: sam at March 3, 2009 2:48 PM
I've never bought a new car. I bought my Dodge Magnum from the dealer with 4,000 miles on it.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 3, 2009 2:49 PM
"For an extra say, $500 a month (after your tax deduction) you can live in a full-serve, fireproof, elegant, apartment building in the heart of Brooklyn Heights, half a block from the subway."
You mean you could live in a highrise/dorm in Brooklyn Heights with horrible finances.
I'd choose the PS place, if I had to choose between the 2.
Paying 1500 a month for maintenance on a small 2 bedroom is a sign of an extremely poor run co-op. My former realtor said to stay as far away as possible from the St. George.
Posted by: 11217 at March 3, 2009 2:52 PM
"Sixth Avenue about a mile away from the subway."
Not that you'll admit you are wrong on this either, but 6th Avenue and 5th Street is a mile from the subway?
Really? So the F train at 7th Avenue and 9th Street is a mile??
Posted by: 11217 at March 3, 2009 2:54 PM
The fact that you would call a Volkswagon Passat a Jalopy shows just what an elitist snob you really are, Sam.
Posted by: 11217 at March 3, 2009 2:56 PM
I have never bought a used car. There you have it. DIVERSITY!!
Posted by: sam at March 3, 2009 2:57 PM
Oh my gosh, here he goes, 11217 with his anal compulsive multiple posts!!!
....and each one more interesting than the last!
Posted by: sam at March 3, 2009 2:59 PM
and I have never bought a new car. I might have to now that I'm here though - can't believe how cheap new cars are over here. And reasonable fuel costs as well!
Posted by: the chicken at March 3, 2009 3:14 PM
Get real, people. It's nice and clean and you can move right in. If the carrying cost per month drops down to $3,000 (or whatever a place this size/layout/location would cost to rent) it will sell.
This is a particular type of apartment that is common in Park Slope. It's the cheapest two-bedroom you can find for a small family. They're very narrow. They've made the very most of it. The niche in the living room lessens the squeeze just a bit and the kitchen and the pass-through are set up well.
I saw a couple of these back in 2001 in the $300,000s. This one is much nicer.
Posted by: mopar at March 3, 2009 3:23 PM
Knock out the wall and you have a nice 1BR, which is probably how it started life.
I'm mystified about the 'bad location' comments. We rented on the same block for a number of years while our kid was in 321 and later in 51. Perfect location for the kid to walk home. Also, it's a block to whatever you want on 7th, and a block to whatever you want on 5th. It's fairly quiet. Not that far from the 'R' at Union either, altho admittedly not super-close either.
Posted by: denton at March 3, 2009 3:25 PM
is this 850 sq ft?
Posted by: PropJoe at March 3, 2009 3:25 PM
If this were in the PS 321 school zone, wouldn't the ad say so?
Posted by: Lesloaf at March 3, 2009 3:50 PM
Wouldn't you rather have a 13-bed French chateau with it's own library and moat for the same money? ;)
http://www.prestigeproperty.co.uk/property/104652/French-Chateau-in-20km-from-Fougeres-Ille-et-Vilaine-35-France/#
Posted by: the chicken at March 3, 2009 3:53 PM
According to the "zone map" on Indieschools.org, this is most definitely in the PS321 zone...
http://insideschools.org/index12.php?fso=450
Posted by: 11217 at March 3, 2009 3:55 PM
excuse 11217, he is very busy looking for premium property in Buenos Aires and cannot post intelligently at this time
Posted by: Squattersrights at March 3, 2009 4:03 PM
I am surprised Corcoran is still in business, I thought they would have taken their overpriced garbage, changed the locks on the office doors and abandon ship.
Posted by: Xander Crews at March 3, 2009 4:31 PM
It is definitely 321. Like I said, my daughter attended when we were living there. It's like a block and a half away.
Posted by: denton at March 3, 2009 4:31 PM
Denton & 11217 - I believe the PS321 zone extends only as far south as 3rd Street [with some jerrymandering - such as the inclusion of the Novo, for some bizarre reason]. Perhaps it's changed since you lived there, Denton?
Posted by: parkedslope at March 3, 2009 5:18 PM
Parkedslope...
I just posted the link above with the map that very clearly shows this apartment in the PS. 321 School District.
Perhaps the map has changed is what you're suggesting?
One would think Indieschools.org would keep it pretty up to date...
Posted by: 11217 at March 3, 2009 5:22 PM
Parkedslope: the 321 zone extends to the north side of 5th St. Both my kids are in school there, and I know this is the current southern boundary. The apt. may not look like much, but it is a 2-bed starter apt. with a little bit of vintage detail very close to 321, on a nice quiet block, albeit an avenue. Not saying if it's over priced or by how much, but people shouldn't be looking to 15th St. or PHts for comps - the Novo would be a more interesting comparison. What's the price differential between a 321-zoned starter apt in a big ugly building on a big ugly avenue vs. a starter apt. in a smaller brownstone building on a much nicer avenue?
Posted by: petunia at March 3, 2009 5:31 PM
I heard that Novo got zoned out of PS321.
Can anybody confirm?
Posted by: SnarkSlope at March 3, 2009 6:05 PM
Having sussed out 2-brs in park slope in 07, this price is a huge discount to what was on the market then-- as it should be. But this is a good example of a not-so-perfect place (walkup, narrow, no storage) that won't move in a bear market, period. Why would you even buy this right now for 550k? Why not just wait and see until 2010 begins? If you're renting -- and rents are falling -- why move? If you own -- and prices are falling -- why sell? For me to buy right now, if i was looking, it would have to be my dream place at a deep discount. For most people, this isn't it.
Posted by: Bolder at March 3, 2009 6:09 PM
Yes, what Petunia said. After our 6th ave pad, we moved to a coop on the south side of 5th Street near 4th Ave, and that was definitely right on the other side of the 321 zone. Many of the parents in the building sent their kids to that school on Carroll, I think the Brooklyn New School?
SS, that would be funny, haven't heard that. Then again interesting that neither the Novo or Corcoran websites state that it is in the 321 zone.
Posted by: denton at March 3, 2009 6:17 PM
About the St. George Hotel, does anyone know the status of the famous *swimming pool*, if it was in the part of the hotel that was in the fire a few years ago, and the state of that swimming pool today? I searched some on Google, but didn't find that exactly.
I wonder why the realtor said to stay away from the St. George.
Posted by: BklynSoFar at March 3, 2009 6:29 PM
Chicken -- Thank you for the site of the French chateau, although it is further from the subway. No pictures of the kitchen, it is a good thing, causing collision among commenters. Must be some way to add the word "slope" to the title.
http://www.prestigeproperty.co.uk/property/104652/French-Chateau-in-20km-from-Fougeres-Ille-et-Vilaine-35-France/#
Posted by: BklynSoFar at March 3, 2009 6:51 PM
The pool is behind those blind arches on the building's base. It was always in the art deco building not in the 19th century building that burned down many years ago. Today, the pool is part of the health club that shareholders belong to automatically.
Posted by: sam at March 3, 2009 6:57 PM
Thank you, Sam.
Posted by: BklynSoFar at March 3, 2009 9:56 PM
The St. George sucks. The ceilings are very low. The maintenance, however, is very high. The windows are small. The hallways are claustrophobia-inducing. The building has had several serious fires over the years. When the market drags the apartments in the St. George go begging. Only those in the old Grill Building portion are nicely proportioned, but that is a small 7-floor portion separate from the tower. And as far as I know residents do not get free membership to the health club, just a discount. And the health club (Eastern Athletic) is a sweaty airless underground grotto. Yikes.
Posted by: punko at March 3, 2009 10:13 PM
Why would you even buy this right now for 550k? Why not just wait and see until 2010 begins? If you're renting -- and rents are falling -- why move? If you own -- and prices are falling -- why sell?
Posted by: Bolder at March 3, 2009 6:09 PM
----
Why would they SELL? Hmmm ... because the reality might sink in at some point that you'll wish you'd taken the 550K when it's going for 425K this fall or early next year. Amazing to me that there are still some people who seem to think that spring or the stim or whatever will refloat the market. Next bubble please!
Posted by: cgwatcher at March 4, 2009 9:59 AM
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