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March 31, 2009

Atlantic Yards: The Play-by-Play

"You can sue, sue, sue—but nothing ruins megaplans like a crashing economy." So goes the sub-head of New York Magazine's historical timeline of the Atlantic Yards saga prompted, presumably, by architect Frank Gehry's much-blogged blooper, “I don’t think [Atlantic Yards] is going to happen.”
Atlantic Yards, Inch by Inch [New York Magazine]
Atlantic Yards: The Past, Present & Future [Curbed]

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Sad to see it go. I moved here in 2002 and always felt AY was growing up with me. I fondly remember the early days of the project.

Posted by: infinitejester at March 31, 2009 10:17 AM

This is a shame... based on the design, it looks like Gehry was looking to make an environmental statement. Those buildings are constructed using recycled shipping containers, right?

Posted by: tybur6 at March 31, 2009 10:29 AM

"Sad to see it go. I moved here in 2002 and always felt AY was growing up with me. I fondly remember the early days of the project."

OH!!!! When I said that the Retards moved to Asshat Hill because of the Arena everyone laughed at me! Oh well infinitejester grow down..

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at March 31, 2009 10:30 AM

Yes, I am so happy this beautiful part of Brooklyn got saved. Who needs world class architecture when you can have empty lots, views of glorious railyards and unobstructed sight lines to mini storage buildings and all those beutiful warehouses. Finally a victory for common sense and saving all that is great in Brooklyn. I will sleep so much better knowing this travisity has been stopped and true beauty can survive! There is a God!

Posted by: james_bong at March 31, 2009 10:42 AM

Look guys, don't you realize that Gehry was used as a pawn to sell this land grab for Ratner? I am as big of a fan of great architecture as the next person, but not at this price.

Posted by: Schultz at March 31, 2009 10:49 AM

James Bong,

Please go on a tour of other projects (i.e. Metrotech + Atlatnic Teminal Mall) from this developer and see for yourself how world class their construction is. About all this developer is good is milking tax payer subsidies.

Posted by: Boerum Hill at March 31, 2009 10:52 AM

Just like I was never in the d-o-n-e d-e-a-l camp because I recongnize how frivolous lawsuits and time can destroy a project; I think AY opponents are getting WAY ahead of themselves here....While I certainly do not see the full Gehry vision getting built anytime soon, Ratner has not abandoned the project and he still owns much of the land (And will continue too) - just like Metrotech and Renissance Plaza (Marriott) [previous large and protested government sponsored projects] were delayed years due to lawsuits, politics and previous bad economies - AY will be developed at some point in large measure by Bruce Ratner. Thats why Governments like Ratner - he gets stuff done (eventually).

Maybe it will be 5yrs till you get a an arena (and parking) and another 15 till major housing and office can be built - but AY is certainly not dead forever (excpet for the pipe dream that someone will build a 100M platform and then people will put faux-brownstones on it)

Posted by: fsrg at March 31, 2009 10:52 AM

And if we are lucky, we won't have to get to the intersection of Atlantic and Flatbush and see those models above in real life. Truly scary. I like a lot of Gehry's work, but these were not created on one of his good days.

More importantly, if Ratner is totally stopped, and he throws in the towel, it may be the most expensive lesson in the world for future developers to learn - do your business in an honest, above board, transparent way. You're not building a house on a private lot, you are developing a huge portion of land, smack in the middle of a growing metro area, with valid public concerns over land use, infrastructure, traffic and the use of public funds and tax revenues. Something will get built here. Hopefully smaller projects by more than one company, with all of the above taken into consideration.

Note to the MTA - stupid, stupid, stupid. You could have gotten more from companies that could have gotten it done, since they were willing to play by the rules. The whole bunch of you need to go.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at March 31, 2009 11:02 AM

As has been discussed here many times, the big objections are to (1) the use of eminent domain to displace homeowners and renters, when the project could be built on just the blighted railyards, and (2) the immense cost to taxpayers, with little evidence of a significant increase in jobs or truly affordable housing.

Posted by: Lesloaf at March 31, 2009 11:03 AM

Boerum Hill - nothing wrong with Metrotech - and be fair - Ratner is responsible for one of the most iconic towers in Brooklyn (certainly built in the last 50 years)

Posted by: fsrg at March 31, 2009 11:06 AM

I love how Ratner is evil incarnate. I live near DT and see Metrotech all the time. News flash - the area around it is purse s*%t, so his development actually is an improvement. And I do shop at Target and Pathmark and I like it. Forgive me that I enjoy living near clean, modern building and not dilapidated crapola that is the rest of DT Brooklyn. And spare me the weeping for all those poor property owners that got very hefty payouts for their property and to the renters - hey your renters, go get another apartment away from a construction zone so you'll have some peac and quite. If it was up to you people, we'd all be still living in the stone age because we need to save our beautiful caves and their drawing of mamoths inside. Get real people, this are is going to stit empty and ugly for a long long time. Whoo hoo!

Posted by: james_bong at March 31, 2009 11:10 AM

Awww James Bong windfall when BOOM! Let me guess? You was one of many Retards who brought in "Brownstoner Brooklyn" right? And when you noticed there was no construction going on in the pit you started blaming other for you short slightness right? And now you are coming to the realization that Atlantic Yards will not get get build right? And you was upset when Frank Gehry put the nail in the coffin with his comments right? Ok I understand...

The What (Here James have some skittles)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at March 31, 2009 11:26 AM

I do live in Brownstone Brooklym though not in a Brownstone. I bought before all the craziness, so I don't obbsess about what my apartment may or may not be worth. I don't really care if its Frank Gehry or Frank Ass Hat who is the architect of AY. I do care that people love to stop progress and turning around a blighted part of town in the name of saving "something" - in this case that something is that old world charm of a big empty hole in the middle of Brooklyn. An empty hole that I will now get to enjoy for the next 5-10 years.

Posted by: james_bong at March 31, 2009 11:39 AM

One answer to the empty hole for you AY fans - invest your own money in FCR.

If all of you kick in $100k or so you should be able to raise the $2 billion in corporate welfare that Ratner's angling for.

Posted by: Johnny at March 31, 2009 11:50 AM

" bought before all the craziness, so I don't obbsess about what my apartment may or may not be worth."

The What is spot-on again!

" An empty hole that I will now get to enjoy for the next 5-10 years."

Here James let me help you.

U-Haul - built to move Asshats, not freight

http://www.uhaul.com/

The What (Taste The Rainbow)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at March 31, 2009 11:50 AM

JamesBong--
It's not the big empty hole... I don't think anyone has a problem building over the rail yard. It's the homes and businesses that were taken through eminent domain. I'm don't have particularly strong feelings about this topic myself, but I do understand where the uproar comes from.

BUT, to be clear, it's not because of the hole in the ground or the otherwise derelict properties around it... it's about the active businesses and homes that were affected.

(If someone has a problem with building a big building for no other reason than it's big... then, yeah, that's not a very position to begin with, but that's not what the "problems" with the project were about.)

Posted by: tybur6 at March 31, 2009 11:51 AM

tybur6 -

Please do not be so naive - virtually none of the anti-AY folks gave 2 $hits about Eminent Domain before AY; and they wont after. In fact 99% of them would likely support Eminent Domain for any number of their own 'pet projects' BUT
the anti-AY people did not want an Arena or tall buildings (mostly an Arena) so they latched onto ED as their cause. Trust me - after AY gets built (or not) you wont here a peep out of anyone about "ED abuse"
The [very few] people who were "forced out" made more money on their apartments then virtually anyone in this boom and far from losing their family homestead, they sold a new condo that they had barely lived in for a year or two. Even the renters in hindsight ended up with a pretty good deal.
ED - is, was and will always be a strawman argument for the Anti-AY crowd.

Posted by: fsrg at March 31, 2009 12:11 PM

"Those buildings are constructed using recycled shipping containers, right?"

... so I'm not the only one who thinks the Gehry design looked like a favela?

Posted by: EGJ at March 31, 2009 12:34 PM

In fact I think the average favela has a cleaner 'design.'

This Gehry design just looks like, "Umm, I'm really busy so I'll just slap some random squares together and the dumb schmucks will be amazing because I did it. Who cares if it will leak like a sieve in a couple years like all of my other "funky" buildings... that's not my problem. They hired me for my supposed expertise and the need to add a painfully predictable Ghery building to the cityscape."

Posted by: tybur6 at March 31, 2009 12:46 PM

Not to worry, fsrq, no-one is giving up. We will continue to fight FCR on every front until this is truly gone, and then will continue to work for some true, in-context, and actually affordable housing in its place. And ED has not been used yet, and hopefully will never be permitted.

Added to the list of abandoned Brooklyn construction sites should be the horror that FCR has wrought in demolishing as much as possible with no plans or ability to actually build anything.

Ward's Bakery RIP.

Posted by: babs at March 31, 2009 1:05 PM

Lets just put some projects up in this area. Will that make everyone happy and provide enough "affordable housing" - hey, maybe even Frank Gehry can design them. Then all the Park Slope organics can be happy for helping out those less fortunate and maybe buy some good weed from them while their at it.

Posted by: james_bong at March 31, 2009 1:32 PM

babs - you can fight till you're 100 - it wont matter - Ratner owns most of the footprint, he has a contract with the MTA and the State and he will build on this site - what and when are still a question but Ratner's track record speaks for itself....

I agree as to context - Of course I assume you are referring to the Williamsburg Savings Bank and 483 Carlton Ave in terms of the context of the area.....

Ahh and thanks for mentioning Wards Bakery - another example of the Anti-AY crowd's favorite tactic - strawman

No one cared about the Wards Bakery before AY (rightfully so since it was a non-descriptive factory building of which there are hundreds all over the city) and noone would have cared - but for Ratner and AY

Posted by: fsrg at March 31, 2009 1:33 PM

Ratner won't build on this land because FCR is all but broke and he doesn't have the money to build on this land.

He'll start building only when the politicians give him more of our money to build with. The land itself was purchased with $50 million in taxpayer funds that was earmarked for affordable housing. Granted, a lot of that $50 mill went to PR for the project itself.

Posted by: Johnny at March 31, 2009 2:09 PM

Perhaps Ratner will build in Prospect Heights some day, but I believe that if he doesn't get something built this year, the State can cancel the project. That would mean an end to the instant upzoning this State project would provide.

Posted by: SteveFtGreene at March 31, 2009 2:34 PM

Actually fsrq I did care about Ward's Bakery -- I lived on Clermont between Greene and Fulton in the 1990s and always admired that building, which at the time was Pechter's Breads, with a big neon sign on top.

And Ratner and FCR would never build anything they have to pay for with their own money on this site (especially now when they don't have any).

Eventually they will begin selling the land (maybe even at a profit) -- let's just hope they sell it to people of good conscience.

Posted by: babs at March 31, 2009 2:57 PM

All:

Don't think that Ratner is not counting on opponents being lulled into a sense of victory. The Atlantic Urban Renewal Area lay fallow for almost thirty years before the townhouses, Atlantic Terminal Mall and the Atlantic Mall were built. Let's remember that Ratner STILL has site control. The AY footprint combined with the Modells and PC Richards buildings combined would be one humongous FAR nightmare. FCR and Ratner will not give up this site because it is SOOOOOOOO valuable for future development.

Those near and about the footprint as well as their elected officials need to make sure that the control of the arena footprint is wrested from Ratner to ensure their well being.

Posted by: BrooklynIsHome at March 31, 2009 3:15 PM

Wow - when did we start living in communist brooklyn. Please all powerful government, take away this private companies land becasue they are bad bad bad. Uncle Joe and Comrad Lenin are proud as hell. George Washington is probably spinning in his grave.

Posted by: james_bong at March 31, 2009 5:05 PM

Umm, Mr. Bong - I think people were upset precisely because the all-powerful government wanted to give this company public land and other private parties' land. As far as I'm concerned, Ratner ca build at triple the density on land he has acquired legitimately from willing sellers. More power to him. It's the give-away of MTA land, and the use of eminent domain for a private project, not a public purpose, that bugs me.

Posted by: Sparafucile at March 31, 2009 6:10 PM

Bong,
I actually like the love the raw industrial buildings.

I did LIKE the previous grit and rawness of that AY area…just as I liked the raw vibe of old DUMBO before it became completely converted into yuppie condo town. DUMBO had that rare quality that carried the DNA of the Brooklyn waterfront...it sickens me now.

I had a dream where I walked east down Atlantic Ave. and there was a lot of old industrial buildings with open lots. I awoke with a great feeling of thrilled excitement and a great feeling of loss…that some of the best character of Brooklyn was being removed in order to homogenize the city.

Posted by: Oxygen at March 31, 2009 6:42 PM

New York loves it holes and we got another one to keep. In stead of being an international desternation it will be another ugly hole and Brooklyn can keep it poor LIRR schedule. In addition, we lost much needed housing and good well paying jobs. To me it is a real shame that Brooklyn losses out and Manhattan can maintain it's stature over Brooklyn.

Posted by: Blizzard5400 at March 31, 2009 6:44 PM

I live 2.5 blocks from AY and have no interest whatsoever in the project. I can't see what it will do to 'improve' the neighborhood.

Posted by: Oxygen at March 31, 2009 7:39 PM

Damn - lets just go back to the 1970's, lets break out the good 'ol squeegie guys and their dirty rags, bring back graffiti tagged subway cars - hell lets bring back the gaurdian angeles and their red berets. Man how I miss those times, wondering which drug dealer, homeless vagrant or hell's angel was going to stick me or rob me on my way home. Now those were the days.....I can dream.

Posted by: james_bong at March 31, 2009 8:01 PM

opponents aren't getting ahead of themselves. you'll notice they are still fighting. if they were ahead of themselves, they'd be done figting.

now FSRQ, since you have repeated, twice, with great certainty that Ratner "owns most of the land" in the project site, let me set you straight.

The project site is 22 acres.

Ratner owns or controls 6 of those acres. The other 16 are the yards (8 acres) which he does not own, 3 city blocks (about 3 acres) which he does not own, and about 5 acres of private property that he does not own or control.

so, in reality, Ratner owns a small portion of the footprint acreage.

but no doubt, owning it all is what he has his eyes on.

Posted by: brokeland at April 1, 2009 12:18 AM

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March 31, 2009

Atlantic Yards: The Play-by-Play

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