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March 16, 2009

A Successful Buy-and-Hold Strategy on Hoyt Street

What is it about stories about people who scored beautiful houses in Brownstone Brooklyn three decades ago that are at once so irresistible and envy-inducing? Whatever it is, The Times served up another dose this weekend in its Habitats column. In this case, the lucky owners are a charming couple that met at Pratt in the late 1960s before nabbing their 22-foot-wide brownstone on Hoyt Street in Boerum Hill in 1973 for a cool $49,500. Of course, there's the requisite context of urban grittiness to smudge our rose-colored glasses. “Wyckoff Street was an open drug bazaar, with guns and hookers everywhere,” said Frank Cusack, one half of the pioneering real estate couple. Decades of block association work and one celebrity couple neighbor later, of course, Hoyt Street is a whole different animal, though Ms. Cusack still conducts her exercise classes for neighborhood ladies in the parlor floor living room. The couple just finished a renovation (a conversion of the garden floor to a rental), the last of many in the 36-year span they've occupied the house.
Shrink or Expand to Fit [NY Times]

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Ahhhhh....the joys of long-term home ownership.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 16, 2009 9:35 AM

Took the words right out of my mouth Dave.

Posted by: TownhouseLady at March 16, 2009 10:11 AM

I could tell a similar story, although my neighborhood was rather less threatening in the early '70. A successful buy-and-hold strategy indeed!

FWIW I have a "Tree Grows in Brooklyn"print (wood cut?, linoleum cut?) by Margaret Cusack, sold at an early Boerum Hill House tour.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at March 16, 2009 10:28 AM

I think may be missing part of the point. House not bought as investment tool but as something to live in. Whether it is still worth $50k or $1.5M does not matter.
The home has the flexibility to change with their needs. And they do not plan to move.
Yet - I do find Mr Cusack feeding the Times a bit of exageration to sound more 'pioneering' (oh I how hate that term) and all... calling Wyckoff an open drug bazaar with guns and hookers everywhere. Certainly not what it is today but everyone wants to make sound more dangerous than what it was then.

Posted by: Petebklyn at March 16, 2009 10:29 AM

On the subject of long-term home ownership; one of the selling points of the late '60s/early '70s brownstone revival"
movement"was that there'd never be a need to need to "upgrade" by moving. The houses were certainly large enough and the brownstone neighborhoods would continue to improve.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at March 16, 2009 10:33 AM

people like to make themselves seem more bad ass then they really are.

Posted by: Santa at March 16, 2009 10:35 AM

"A Successful Buy-and-Hold Strategy on Hoyt Street"

Warning: Do not try this at home if you bought within the last ten years.

"What is it about stories about people who scored beautiful houses in Brownstone Brooklyn three decades ago that are at once so irresistible and envy-inducing?"

I don't know. You tell us. It made its way here.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at March 16, 2009 10:45 AM

"Warning: Do not try this at home if you bought within the last ten years"

Nonsense! Typical of the idiocy of treating a home as an investment and nothing more.

[cf the "To Bail or Not To Bail on Your Home?" thread].

Posted by: Bob Marvin at March 16, 2009 10:53 AM

"Nonsense! Typical of the idiocy of treating a home as an investment and nothing more."

Uhhhh, "Buy and Hold" is part of the thread title. And you cannot tell me that the overwhelming majority of those who bought did so without the expectation of a return on their money. This thread is heavily market related.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at March 16, 2009 11:04 AM

BHO...I hear nervousness in your voice.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 16, 2009 11:06 AM

Margaret Cusack would make anyone's list of most annoying people in the universe, but I do give her credit for being a force (for good or bad) behind the BHA, biannual BH House Tour, BH community garden, CB6, et al...you get the idea.

That block is no great shakes, but owning the house adjacent to the Nell Campbell/Michelle Williams will bring the value up if/when they ever sell.

Posted by: BoerumHill at March 16, 2009 11:10 AM

That block is no great shakes, but owning the house adjacent to the Nell Campbell/Michelle Williams home will bring the value up if/when they ever sell.

Posted by: BoerumHill at March 16, 2009 11:11 AM

TTThats rrridiculous, dddave!

***BBBid hhhalf oooff pppeak cccomps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at March 16, 2009 11:21 AM

Good sport, BHO. You coming Thursday??? I'll be the one with the "Biff" nametag!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 16, 2009 11:28 AM

The Cusacks were here a few years before me, so a tip of the hat to them. But I rememeber the protestors against The House Tours because of their gentrification and aim to bring in middle class white folk. It made me feel like I was a settler in the West bank.
I was so impressed with the cost of these houses in the seventies also how nice the neighbourhood felt, except at night. There were gang wars on Wyckoff Street, every corner had a bodega with domino players outside, the corner streets were embedded with Micheloeb caps that clacked when you walked on and attracted lighting. There were sawd off bodies found in back yards, wild dogs ran free in the early morn and there was fighting on the streets from little lads to seniors. Those were the days.
There were no bars or restaurants for yuppies like us, there were a couple of places on Atlantic or else it was a hike to Montague or Juniors. If I found myself on Smith Street at night I would walk down the center of the street, there were few cars. It was damm scarey with tough guy social clubs, 'ethnic' bars and Reagge'record stores'with bullet proof glass.It was easier to buy dope than a Big Youth LP.
When I hear people say how much the neighbourhood has changed in the last ten years, I think you have no idea. Well done Cusacks many did move on, but why are these stories still in the time? Why not ask me ?

Posted by: oldtimer at March 16, 2009 11:34 AM

Here's a question. Who knows the name of the Hospital that used to occupy the Bishop Magovaro (sic) Home? And for an extra point who went to their emergency room to treat themselves during their renovation?

Posted by: oldtimer at March 16, 2009 11:38 AM

I agree with Oldtimer -- we moved to our house in the late 80's and I generally don't share all of our experiences because it would flip people out.

Posted by: Schultz at March 16, 2009 11:48 AM

Holy Family was the hospital..including several houses on Dean that later converted to new houses.
Who would go to their E.R.?

Posted by: Petebklyn at March 16, 2009 11:57 AM

Wycoff was a baaaad place in the 70's and 80's - that's true

Posted by: gemini10 at March 16, 2009 12:10 PM

"Good sport, BHO. You coming Thursday??? I'll be the one with the "Biff" nametag!!!"

Naw, baby duty (yeah right, excuses excuses). No way you guys are softening me up.

Team Bear...We Go Hard We Go Hard...

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at March 16, 2009 12:11 PM

"expectation of a return on [my] money"??

Come off it "bid half".

Everyone thought we were crazy to buy a brownstone. I certainly expected a nice place to live, long term, but the appreciation came as an unexpected (albeit not unwelcome)bonus.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at March 16, 2009 12:11 PM

oh man im totally flipped out.

Posted by: Santa at March 16, 2009 12:25 PM

Wouldn't you rather be YOUNG than old enough to have bought a brownstone in 1973 for a pittance? I think I would.

Posted by: casacara at March 16, 2009 12:28 PM

"Come off it 'bid half'...Everyone thought we were crazy to buy a brownstone."

Not 'til half off, Bobby (or 'til Case-Killer tells me otherwise). That was the 90's when fear still ruled from the last fallout. Only I and a few others would have called you crazy if you bought in the 00's. I should have warned not to try this at home if you bought within the last five years, maybe not ten. Anyhoo, the depreciation will come as an expected (albeit not welcome) rescinding of all or some of that 'bonus' or worse, 'submersion'.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at March 16, 2009 12:38 PM

Well yeah casacara, but it ain't exactly an option. Since eternal youth isn't in the cards, I'm glad mine took place when it did :-)

Posted by: Bob Marvin at March 16, 2009 12:45 PM

Half Off,

Sorry, maybe it's me, but is there any meaning to your 12:38 comment?

Posted by: Bob Marvin at March 16, 2009 12:47 PM

It's you, Bobby.

The long haul argument is dead. It deceptively leads one on to think that we'll see 2008 prices again (real terms) before we go or before we're too old to enjoy them. Even the couple above will feel it.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at March 16, 2009 1:01 PM

Now you're being foolish, BHO.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 16, 2009 1:02 PM

BHO--when you say "we go hard" what does that actually mean? Serious question. I am trying to understand the philosophical underpinnings of your mantra. Go hard implies some form of control that you think you have on the price of houses.

Posted by: wasder at March 16, 2009 1:02 PM

A friend bought his house on 24th btw 9th/10th ave (across from London Terrace) in mid-1970s for 40k. Even a better investment.

Posted by: Ringo at March 16, 2009 1:04 PM

What is 49K in today's terms? Anyone have a guess?

***Team Reasonable we go reasonably***

Posted by: wasder at March 16, 2009 1:06 PM

BHO:

OK, so forget people like Bob (or those in the NYT piece) who bought low in the '70s. How about someone who bought at the peak in 1988? If they bought and held until today, were they foolish?

Posted by: basementalist at March 16, 2009 1:11 PM

$237,000, wasder.

http://www.measuringworth.com/ppowerus/?redirurl=calculators/ppowerus/

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 16, 2009 1:11 PM

My old landlord bought his house on West End Avenue on the Upper West Side for 450K and sold it for 8 million.

An even better investment.

Posted by: 11217 at March 16, 2009 1:12 PM

$237,000, wasder.

Thanks Dave. I was just trying to figure out how much the Wyckoff street house would have to depreciate for BHO's wet dream to cum true.

Posted by: wasder at March 16, 2009 1:13 PM

its 200k according to the inflation calc.

and my roommate informed me that you can buy similar houses in shitty areas of Baltimore and Phili for around 200k.

Posted by: Santa at March 16, 2009 1:21 PM

hey oldtimer...was it liz holtzman?... She lived on Dean. Not sure if she still does.

Posted by: Petebklyn at March 16, 2009 1:28 PM

Yes, but who wants to live in a shitty area in Baltimore or Philadelphia. You can buy a nice Federal brick in a really nice area of Philly for $500-600,000

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 16, 2009 1:29 PM

Thank you BHO, but what I meant was that your 12:38 post literally made no sense. I appreciate your translation, although I doubt that I, or the Cusacks, will "feel it." [I, for one, could easily live with my enormous Monopoly money appreciation being halved, or quartered, if it came to that].

Posted by: Bob Marvin at March 16, 2009 1:34 PM

dave, in 1973 who would have wanted to live in a shitty area of brooklyn for 49k? Im sure you could have bought in a much nicer area of Brooklyn or Manhattan for the equivalent 500k.

you could also buy a huge house and a few people in Vietnam for whatever you paid for your bed stuy house.

Posted by: Santa at March 16, 2009 1:47 PM

The "shrink or expand" concept is what makes these four-story houses so fun in the long-haul. You can rent the garden apartment for money, put your teenage or college-age kid or aging parent in it, use it for a home office, or live large and expand into it. My two-kid family fits fine in two floors and would fit luxuriously into three floors. We currently have a live/work arrangment, with Mr. Chicken working on the top floor. We bought this house for the long-haul, and watching the price rise by several factors has been amusing. Watching it fall is less amusing, but no less insignificant, since, like the Cusacks, we are here to stay.

Posted by: Brooklyn Chicken at March 16, 2009 1:48 PM

more than a few, Santa. :)

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 16, 2009 1:53 PM

In 2005, I bought a "nice Federal brick in a really nice area of Philly" (Queen Village) for 400K, so if what Dave in Bed Stuy says is true, I've done all right.
I also bought an 1840s brick row house in an up-and-coming (not shitty) area of Philly in 2007 for 135K, so if what Santa says is true, even better.

Posted by: casacara at March 16, 2009 1:53 PM

I just saw Liz Holtzman and Dean Street was close but no cigar. She's always there on her stoop laughing n' a cracking jokes.
I once spent several hours in the waiting room of Holy Family ER. It was a waiting room of moaning seniors that didn't have anywhere else to go to hang out.
The receptopnist had this system of issuing numbered popsicle (used)sticks. Then every half hour she would call number with out any apparent oreder.
'never got to see a Doctor so I guess that I survived.
Here's another one what was the name of the take out Chinese on the site of Bar Tabac ? That was the only chinese close by (nobody would deliver then) but it was filthy, but cheap.

Posted by: oldtimer at March 16, 2009 1:57 PM

Brooklyn Chicken--I could have written the same post almost word for word. We are currently living on two floors and I am working on a third and renting the fourth. But eventually we will probably put my father in law in the garden flat for a little while and then god knows who else in later years (kids home from college etc). Thanks for your post as it very much encapsulates my thoughts as well.

Posted by: wasder at March 16, 2009 1:58 PM

"BHO--when you say 'we go hard' what does that actually mean?"

Ask Jay Z, wasder. How's the hangover?

"What is 49K in today's terms? Anyone have a guess?"

1.04(average annual inflation)^36(2009-1973)*49K = $201K

That's how low these brownstones can go in value (4 or 5 times that is not far fetched). Think about that.

"Thank you BHO, but what I meant was that your 12:38 post literally made no sense."

I know, right? Sometimes I write in my own language.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at March 16, 2009 2:08 PM

Hahah "Brooklyn We Go Hard"

It's from a Santogold song "Shove It"

Jay-Z sampled it on some song.

Posted by: dirty_hipster at March 16, 2009 2:12 PM

I was pretty hungover on Saturday its true. So you are suggesting that the Wyckoff house could trade at 200K in the near term?

Posted by: wasder at March 16, 2009 2:12 PM

You know something? When I read these threads I wonder about your thought process (Team Bullsh*t). I wonder where did you get the assumptions that housing prices and your neighborhood will hold up. In 2005 we was chanting the Bulls***t phase "Real Estate allays goes up" and "You can't lose buying a house" now in 2009 we are on the brink of a world wide Depression. Please Team Bear leave these delusion people alone and go something else with you life. I don't see the merit on re-hashing the same old Bullsh*t. We are in a depression and if you made the bet your property will go up/hold value then more power to you. Please you don't have to keep validating your belief system to me. I know and you know what's coming down the pipe.....

The What (Welcome to yesterday)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at March 16, 2009 2:16 PM

if they were going for 500k they would be in line with nicer parts of Baltimore and Philly.

and Brooklyn is attached to Manhattan so they wont get that low any time soon.

Posted by: Santa at March 16, 2009 2:19 PM

What the hell are you people saying ? It either makes no sense is mean or stupid or all of the above. Makes me miss the bad old days.

Posted by: oldtimer at March 16, 2009 2:23 PM

A house that size with those garages (nonexistant in Center City) in Philly would be well over $800k.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 16, 2009 2:24 PM

"So you are suggesting that the Wyckoff house could trade at 200K in the near term?"

No, I implied 4 to 5 times that. Still mind boggling to most.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at March 16, 2009 2:25 PM

Yeah, but how much is a taxi ride from the LES to Philly @ 4am on a Saturday?

Posted by: dirty_hipster at March 16, 2009 2:26 PM

"What is 49K in today's terms? Anyone have a guess?"

1.04(average annual inflation)^36(2009-1973)*49K = $201K

That's how low these brownstones can go in value (4 or 5 times that is not far fetched). Think about that.

You forgot to factor in the distortion from the Mutant Asset Bubble (HOT MONEY) coming into all asset classes giving the retards a sense of "Rising Value" and now the Wizards are trying to plug the hole spewing radiation all over the financial landscape. Good luck with that...

The What

Someday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at March 16, 2009 2:26 PM

And what was the name of the chinese take out at the site of Bar tabac?
The bar on the SouthEast corner of Smith and Bergen?
The name of the barber shop at Robin Dubois?
The shoe shop at Clovers and Rocket Ship? (That's an easy one)
The name of the Brooklyn Inn after it was Huberts?

Posted by: oldtimer at March 16, 2009 2:28 PM

1.04(average annual inflation)^36(2009-1973)*49K = $201K

That's how low these brownstones can go in value (4 or 5 times that is not far fetched). Think about that.

ROTFLMMFAO....You may have been right on some things but to believe this property is going to $200k is delusional. Get a grip people....the market is telling us something over the past 5 days.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 16, 2009 2:32 PM

BHO--I agree that I could envision a scenario by which that house traded at a million clams, but how would that pinch the folks that bought it for the equivalent of 200G?

Posted by: wasder at March 16, 2009 2:34 PM

wasder....they bought it for $49,000

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 16, 2009 2:39 PM

Yeah but the equivalent in todays dollars is around 200 right. So if this place falls to about a million as BHO is suggesting, that still leaves them with a 400% profit. He was implying that the couple in this article would "feel the pain" that he is hoping will befall all of us and I was wondering how that could be.

BHO-I read the lyrics to Jay Z's "We go hard" and am still trying to figure out what it has to do with real estate.

Posted by: wasder at March 16, 2009 2:47 PM

You guys have to get out. Sit on your stoop. Hang out on the corners, play dominos. Drink beer outside a bodega. Get up from your computers and throw open your windows and scream ; "I'm sick as hell and I ain't goin' to take it any more"
Because you need to get out and play in the fresh air.

Posted by: oldtimer at March 16, 2009 2:52 PM

If it falls to a million, they have a profit of $951K (we don't know how much money they put into it) which is a profit of 20X their money!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 16, 2009 2:58 PM

DIBS--it would appear you and I are saying the same thing. I was just trying to relate it today's dollars.

Posted by: wasder at March 16, 2009 3:16 PM

Oldtimer, I'm pretty sure most of us do that already.

You are here right now posting here, just as many of us are on a spare moment from work. If I were independently wealthy or retired, I'd be playing right this moment.

You better believe that come Friday, I am playing all weekend in Brooklyn and loving every second of it.

Yesterday I did the HUGE spring cleaning of the garden and had an absolute ball!

Posted by: 11217 at March 16, 2009 3:17 PM

And hell, if houses like that dropped to $200k I'd buy 5.

When I buy it's with the intent to keep. Not just for "the time being" but forever. I'd love to have a few multi families in the general Heights, Cobble/Boreum Hill/Carroll Garden's area.

If the HOTD today (Carroll St with 3 car garage) drops like Team Bear is hoping I'll snap it up at around $1 mil.

Posted by: christopher at March 16, 2009 3:26 PM

wasder...I posted a photo in the Open Thread...you might want to check it out when you need a laugh.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 16, 2009 3:33 PM

Oldtimer : who pays attention to names of Chinese restaurants?
You can still see the mosaic or whatever from that bar on corner of Bergen. Johnnys Bootery - but that is down by my area. Hubert's I ate in couple of times.
I can't believe that lady (or I think same woman) is still selling those batik clothes on Atlantic. I remember buying some as gifts for my 1st nephews as baby gifts and they are pushing 30 now.

Posted by: Petebklyn at March 16, 2009 3:45 PM

if you drink beer outside of a bodega you get a ticket. And if I played dominoes on the corner people would just call me a stupid hipster and tell me to go home.

Posted by: Santa at March 16, 2009 3:47 PM

DIBS--just added my old school photo to the mix. More 80's than 70's obviously but still good for a laugh...

Posted by: wasder at March 16, 2009 3:52 PM

"You may have been right on some things but to believe this property is going to $200k is delusional."

I IMPLIED 4 TO 5 TIMES!!! [he mumbles with a deaf accent, throwing up signs and banging hands on chest]

"Get a grip people....the market is telling us something over the past 5 days."

Yeah, "Here sheepie sheepie...[baaaggghhh...baaaggghhh...]". Sucker's rally. It's an opportunity to unload on a bounce.

"...how would that pinch the folks that bought it for the equivalent of 200G?"

+900% vs +400%. Ouch!

"wasder....they bought it for $49,000"

Wow! wasder schooling dave on the time value of money. You're right, What. I need to leave the delusional alone. wasder will soon become one of us (Team Reasonable = Sneaky Transition).

"BHO-I read the lyrics to Jay Z's 'We go hard' and am still trying to figure out what it has to do with real estate."

Fall back, wasder. It's just a chant, wasder.

"If it falls to a million, they have a profit of $951K (we don't know how much money they put into it) which is a profit of 20X their money!!!"

You're helpless, dave (with respect to the time value of money). Really.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at March 16, 2009 4:19 PM

"+900% vs +400%. Ouch!"

Somehow +400% doesn't sound too much like an ouch moment.

In re sneaky transition I am not an economic determinist like you or like the bulls. I am a reasonable person trying to live a reasonable life. And as such I go reasonably....Peace.

Posted by: wasder at March 16, 2009 4:29 PM

What. I need to leave the delusional alone.

See BHO These guys will never get it! They are so immersed in The Mutant Asset Bubble is sicking! That's why I won't change "Someday this war is gonna end" until we hear from Lt Col. Kingore

" wasder will soon become one of us (Team Reasonable = Sneaky Transition)"

I hope not! Wasder is a retarded idiot!

""BHO-I read the lyrics to Jay Z's 'We go hard' and am still trying to figure out what it has to do with real estate."

and you never will... I love the "Fall Back"!

Dave is not "helpless" he trying to do a impression of Bill O'reilly/Larry Kudlow. I wonder how long will it last....

The What (Oh Brother)

Someday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at March 16, 2009 4:31 PM

"Wasder is a retarded idiot!"

Aw man, there was a time when you used to say nice things about me, or at least lacking in mean. What did I do What?

Posted by: wasder at March 16, 2009 4:33 PM

"Somehow +400% doesn't sound too much like an ouch moment."

Not from an underwater view. But like love, it has to hurt more to have lost a relative surge in the wealth effect (extra paper equity that could have been turned into cash) than to have never had it at all, regardless of where you are in absolute terms.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at March 16, 2009 6:14 PM

As much as you wish the folks in the article pain I just don't see it here BHO. They are still way ahead of the game. Sorry to burst your little sadistic bubble.

Posted by: wasder at March 16, 2009 6:45 PM

Is Team Insane really on here claiming the Cusacks made a mistake buying in Boerum Hill in 1973? What a joke.

Posted by: mopar at March 16, 2009 10:11 PM

"Sorry to burst your little sadistic bubble."

I'm really not that sadistic. I just want to see a price collapse, that's all. Prices are too high. And I don't wish the Cusacks pain. I just know it'll sting a little bit watching that paper "wealth" trickle away.

"Is Team Insane really on here claiming the Cusacks made a mistake buying in Boerum Hill in 1973? What a joke."

No, I said they would feel a pinch as opposed to a total wipeout like many underwater buyers are likely to experience. What a lazy ass.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at March 16, 2009 10:56 PM

"I'm really not that sadistic."

Anybody who has to qualify their level of sadism is a pretty sad individual. I pity your kid.

Posted by: wasder at March 17, 2009 1:09 AM

BHO see what I mean... Disconnect from reality.....

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

BTW I always check in late to chat with that Assnut Legion. I guess his mommy wont let him use the computer, he was caught jerking off to gay men...

Posted by: Return of The What at March 17, 2009 2:28 AM

Disconnect from reality.....

Posted by: Return of The What at March 17, 2009 2:28 AM

Man that was late What. 2:30 AM! Somehow I don't think that pointing out that BHO is a sadist not fit for parenting is disconnected from reality. Quite the opposite really. Imagine growing up with that freak show as your Dad...

Posted by: wasder at March 17, 2009 9:22 AM

The Cusacks haven't had any loss. Anyone obsessing over this nonexistent problem is creepy and weird.

Posted by: mopar at March 17, 2009 12:20 PM

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March 16, 2009

A Successful Buy-and-Hold Strategy on Hoyt Street

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