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February 9, 2009

Tales from Florida

Lehigh Acres, Florida is a far cry from New York City but the apocalyptic scenerio described in The Times this weekend was enough to send shivers down the spine of even the most optimistic gotham dweller:

Trinkets for $1 were an early sign of trouble. Early last year, garage sales and estate auctions became more common in Lehigh Acres as families sold what they could to survive. No one seemed interested in buying whole houses, and foreclosures soon gave way to empty homes that became magnets for crime. Thieves stole air conditioner parts for scrap. And on distant roads with only a few new homes and faded blue street signs from the ’50s — on Narcissus Boulevard, on Prospect Avenue — drug dealers moved in. In 2007 and 2008, the Lee County Sheriff’s Department shut down more than 100 houses in Lehigh Acres where marijuana was being grown. In 2008, the police confiscated nearly 3,000 plants valued at nearly $7 million.

Gulp.

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Comments

As a Gotham dweller, this does not send shivers down my spine.

As a human being, it does.

If anything, it makes me even more happy I am a Gotham dweller, and not a dweller in some crappy subdivision in Florida or somewhere else in Anytown, USA.

If this article does not highlight aspects of the newly changing landscape in the U.S. with regard to increased urbanization and the dying of the sprawling burbs, I don't know what does.

Posted by: 11217 at February 9, 2009 10:47 AM

I sure as hell hope the town sold the marijuana for all the real estate taxes that are overdue!!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 9, 2009 10:49 AM

I'm with 11217. Yes, I feel bad for the situation but Lehigh
Acres is the antithesis of NYC. Cheap land and economy based solely on building new houses and promises of 'lifestyle'.

Posted by: Petebklyn at February 9, 2009 11:00 AM

the new yorker has a great article in its latest issue on crumbling developer communities in florida for anyone interested. one woman living there said she used to live in brooklyn and misses the street life and community. in florida her kids can't even play outside the grounds are infested with snakes!

Posted by: duckumu at February 9, 2009 11:09 AM

There was an article in last week's New Yorker about another crashing/crashed area in Florida. The New Yorker article covered the issue of the assumption that prices would continue to rise so it was stupid not to borrow money on your house, and buy investment property. No, it's not NYC but I heard echoes of what I've heard here about 30 or 40 percent annual increases in house values being "normal."

Unfortunately the New Yorker now requires subscriptions for access to most of its articles but it looks like you can get 4 weeks for free. Here's the link to the article:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/02/09/090209fa_fact_packer

Posted by: rf at February 9, 2009 11:11 AM

Again if you think the Florida real estate market is anything like that of NY read the article in the latest New Yorker. Its not remotely the same.

Posted by: eh at February 9, 2009 11:12 AM

Legalize marijuana and tax the heck out of it. Problem solved, government coffers filled.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at February 9, 2009 11:49 AM

It's an awful situation in FL and I'm not saying I don't worry about the economy in NYC but Lehigh Acres in Lee County FL is laughably not even close to being comparable to Brooklyn.

I know this area. Lee County has a large blue collar population, has tons of cheap new construction on swamp landfill (snakes, ants, waterbugs) way out in the middle of nowhere. These were always bad investment properties. The whole area is way way overbuilt. Those properties weren't even all sold even before the crash there were so many. As with all cities the better investments to make in Florida are in the older, historic, very well established neighborhoods centrally located in town. Those places will be okay in the long run. (See Old Naples and Port Royal in Naples FL as one town's example).

Posted by: traditionalmod at February 9, 2009 12:11 PM

"Again if you think the Florida real estate market is anything like that of NY read the article in the latest New Yorker. Its not remotely the same."

The bubble was the same. That's the reason for the thread. NYC is the last in line for this housing crash and we see what's happening to those before us. We will get ours. Keep the cameras rolling.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 9, 2009 12:20 PM

Nope, Brownstones-Half-Off, the increase in interest, enthusiasm and values in centrally located, older neighborhoods inside cities all over the country not just here, started well well well before the bubble due to a whole other factor -- the migration back to cities from suburbs. That migration started in the late 80's. And over that time prices were actually driven by demand when you're talking about historic houses and properties which have a limited supply. Whereas in a place like Florida, literally the one and only thing they based pricing on was the bubble; the values were not driven by demand as there were tons of properties on the market in Florida at any given time.

Posted by: traditionalmod at February 9, 2009 12:34 PM

NYC and Florida are quite different. That's for sure. But... when it comes to the housing bubble and home valuations they are more similar than most here want to recognize. Look at when the prices in NYC starting to accelerate irrationally! It's the same exact time that prices started accelerating irrationally in Florida! And in Las Vegas! And in Phoenix! And in many parts of the country! Why weren't people shouting New York is different when the prices went up lockstep with the rest of the country?? The only important difference between NYC real estate and elsewhere is that people lost confidence in those areas much faster. They're starting to lose confidence here pretty fast too. Look out below.

Posted by: Sizzle at February 9, 2009 12:34 PM

traditionalmod.

This is a bubble:

http://www.zillow.com/local-info/NY-New-York/Park-Slope-home-value/

Hit the 10 year chart for even more fun.

Prices must adjust and will. Sell now, buy back after Obama's first term. You'll be happy you did!!!

Posted by: Sizzle at February 9, 2009 12:41 PM

Er, when did I say prices wouldn't go down? I didn't. I'm just saying a trend that started in the late 1980's to migrate back to cities is NOT "the bubble". As I remember it there was a recession at the time in fact.

Posted by: traditionalmod at February 9, 2009 12:53 PM

i just got back from visiting my mom in florida and one of the more disturbing trends i noticed was multiple new condos using the homeless to stand on the street wearing sandwich boards and ringing bells to advertise their price reductions. i think we will continue to fall here but things seem way more bleak down there.

Posted by: travy at February 9, 2009 12:58 PM

"Prices must adjust and will. Sell now, buy back after Obama's first term. You'll be happy you did!!!"

Simply the most assinine bit of advice I've ever heard on this blog.

Obviously sizzle has no concept of closing costs, time value of money, etc, etc, etc.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 9, 2009 12:58 PM

Maybe the city will be able to place all of the homeless families in the soon-to-be vacant condos in Wburg and downtown brooklyn.

Posted by: shillstoner at February 9, 2009 1:00 PM

Agreed. It's not.

The bubble was caused by lax lending that occurred over the past 10 years or so. More people in the marketplace then ever before created more demand then ever and potentially THE LARGEST asset bubble in human history.

My point is that urban migration over the past 20 years or more is no match for this boom/bust that is now occurring. Sure, cities are more desirable then they were in 1988, but the continued influx of people won't keep this bubble from popping in New York.

Posted by: Sizzle at February 9, 2009 1:06 PM

The Bears went from making some pretty good points a couple months ago to now just sounding more and more ridiculous as the days go on.

I agree Dave. That advice was some of the worst I've read.

Posted by: 11217 at February 9, 2009 1:06 PM

No, no... I do in fact understand all of the above. Yes, there are costs associated with selling an apartment or brownstone. But the cost of holding onto one as this asset bubble deflates will be much MUCH greater.

Sell FSBO, put your money somewhere safe(i.e. under mattress, in cds, etc.) and buy it back at a steep discount later.

Posted by: Sizzle at February 9, 2009 1:12 PM

Ok, I take it back.

Putting money under a mattress is officially the worst advice I've heard now.

Posted by: 11217 at February 9, 2009 1:16 PM

11217, what's the best advice you've heard on Brownstoner lately?

Posted by: Sizzle at February 9, 2009 1:19 PM

As much as this is an uber-grim article I have a hard time mustering too much fear that this sort of thing will happen here.

Posted by: wasder at February 9, 2009 1:22 PM

"Nope, Brownstones-Half-Off, the increase in interest, enthusiasm and values in centrally located, older neighborhoods inside cities all over the country not just here, started well well well before the bubble due to a whole other factor -- the migration back to cities from suburbs."

Yup, traditionalmod. Same bubble. As you have said, the "increase in interest, enthusiasm and values...started well well well before the bubble". So that difference between Florida ghost towns and NYC was already priced in. It cancels out. When NYC finishes its crash, it'll still be way more expensive than those areas of Florida because the difference between the intrinsic values is rock solid. But that's not what we're debating here. We're talking about the fluff, the excess fat in home prices. It was driven by the same speculative bubble where the mantra was "home prices only go up".

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 9, 2009 1:25 PM

"i think we will continue to fall here but things seem way more bleak down there."

Lag, travy, lag. NYC lags. Wall St just paid out its last bonus checks for the decade. It's a differential collapse between cities.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 9, 2009 1:28 PM

Sizzle,

The best advice on this website I've seen is often found in the Forum. Things relating to renovation, restoration, landlords, fixing this, repairing that, etc. etc.

As for the speculation on home prices, I see very little good advice.

I do think generalizing and saying that you should sell your home in a declining market to then buy it again in another 3 years is foolish. That would only make sense of you bought a home in the last couple years which you could no longer afford.

Otherwise, it really makes no sense if you bought your house to live in long term, as most people in NYC have done.

You sound like a flipper with that mentality.

Posted by: 11217 at February 9, 2009 1:28 PM

"Wall St just paid out its last bonus checks for the decade."

Yup, 18 billion dollars worth.

Or about 1/4th of the State of Florida's entire Fiscal Budget for the year 2007/08.

Your comments are getting really ignorant BHO.

Posted by: 11217 at February 9, 2009 1:30 PM

"Prices must adjust and will. Sell now, buy back after Obama's first term. You'll be happy you did!!!"

Simply the best bit of advice I've ever heard on this blog.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 9, 2009 1:32 PM

Yes, that mattress advice is time tested. Apparently sizzle doesn't know what CD rates are either!!!! Would you lock them in for 3-5 years????

Sizzle....what is your prediction for interest rates?

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 9, 2009 1:34 PM

Simply the best bit of advice I've ever heard on this blog.

You must of course be joking...

Posted by: wasder at February 9, 2009 1:34 PM

Sizzle = BHO

Posted by: 11217 at February 9, 2009 1:35 PM

"The Bears went from making some pretty good points a couple months ago to now just sounding more and more ridiculous as the days go on."

At least you admit that we've made good points at all. Can't say the same for Team Bull. Your cluelessness never ceases to amaze.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 9, 2009 1:35 PM

Team Bull has all the factual Recent Sales on our side, BHO

Yes, wasder. Have another coffee

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 9, 2009 1:43 PM

bho- i agree we lag behind up here but at least we have some jobs and industry. my sister moved back to florida after grad school and she says the job situation there is horrendous. and indeed, while i was there it felt very dead on the streets and lots of for sale/rent signs everywhere.

don't get me wrong, i think we will return to '99 pricing for most of nyc, but things are going to be hellish in suburbia down south...

Posted by: travy at February 9, 2009 1:43 PM

Dave, I predict CD rates to be positive (nominally at least) and housing prices to be dramatically in the negative (both nominal and real values).

Posted by: Sizzle at February 9, 2009 1:44 PM

I don't know that I can really be identified as being a member of Team Bull on account of the fact that I have no economic theory to back up my purchase of my house. I have but personal reasons for doing so but that is my main point of contention with Team Bear---life is not so neat as to be able to fit around the convenience of the ebbs and flows of the market. I bought because I needed a bigger place to live and work and as such I hope that my house retains its value. However I definitely concede that BHO and others have good points to make about the coming declines.

Posted by: wasder at February 9, 2009 1:45 PM

Oh, wasder, sorry....you were referring to BHO's assessment of the best advice. Please don't engage the loons.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 9, 2009 1:45 PM

"As for the speculation on home prices, I see very little good advice."

The rose tint is in the way.

"Your comments are getting really ignorant BHO."

Your comments are already there. You missed the point. That bonus figure is nearly 50% down from last year and merely a snapshot of NYC's economic collapse. As I said, NYC lags. You want to equivalently compare our economic health now to that of Florida when they were at our stage of the price decline, you gotta go back a few years, buddy.

"You must of course be joking..."

No, I'm not joking, wasder. Just exaggerating. Sure I've heard better advice, specifically. But generally, it is wise to cash out of a bubble, any bubble, while it's still near the top. Miss Muffet, lechacal, etc., are prime examples. They have not bought back in yet.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 9, 2009 1:49 PM

"But generally, it is wise to cash out of a bubble, any bubble, while it's still near the top."

It may be "wise" on a purely financial level but I doubt too many people have the flexibility to plan their lives around the vicissitudes of the market. I hear you about Lechacal and MM but at least in Miss Muffet's case I would bet she would acknowledge the difficulty in not knowing exactly where her family is going to be housed for the long term.

Posted by: wasder at February 9, 2009 1:53 PM

I just love the fact that all these team Bear people know what the downturn is going to look like, how long it will last and how long it will take to reach a bottom.

Bottom line is that few peole who have bought a brownstone, even at the top, could rent SIMILAR SPACE and have a similar lifestyle for what they are paying on their mortgages and real estate taxes.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 9, 2009 1:54 PM

"Team Bull has all the factual Recent Sales on our side, BHO"

No you do not. Sales are down. Way down. Prices classically follow. A photo, snapped in mid air, of a skydiver who forgot his parachute reveals an alive and intact body. Keep the cameras rolling.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 9, 2009 2:00 PM

"things are going to be hellish in suburbia down south"

They always were (half jokingly).

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 9, 2009 2:01 PM

Well, BHO, if they are actual sales that we've been seeing here, then they are on our side.

Why is it that you and some of the other loons can't accept that what is a sale is actually a sale.

Most of the recent sales we've seen (with many of them post-Lehman) have been at prices that ranged from above ask to 10-15% below ask, which is pretty normal.

Christ, how dense are you?

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 9, 2009 2:07 PM

"she would acknowledge the difficulty in not knowing exactly where her family is going to be housed for the long term"

Not as difficult as overpaying.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 9, 2009 2:10 PM

Overpaying has no effect if you're looking for a long-term residence, all other things being equal. This is apparently a concept that a lot of the loons can't grasp. If rates go up on Miss Muffett (likely) she will have made a terrible mistake.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 9, 2009 2:14 PM

Dave, you miss BHO's main point.

Yes, there have been sales with decent comps as of late. But... there are significantly less sales happening then in years past. Significantly less! This is an important indicator and speaks to the fear that is in the market right now by both sellers AND buyers. Yes, deals are being done. Nobody should expect a complete standstill in the market. But if you listen to the story that the drop in volume is telling, you'll understand what BHO is saying.

Posted by: Sizzle at February 9, 2009 2:16 PM

"I just love the fact that all these team Bear people know what the downturn is going to look like, how long it will last and how long it will take to reach a bottom."

Wait a minute! I'm not putting a deadline on nuthin'! It's process, not an event. I measure the process along the way, that's it.

"Bottom line is that few peole who have bought a brownstone, even at the top, could rent SIMILAR SPACE and have a similar lifestyle for what they are paying on their mortgages and real estate taxes."

Get the hell out of Brownstone Brooklyn until things cool off. If I needed to, I would. Sacrifice lifestyle. Delay your gratification. The options are endless if you're creative.

"Christ, how dense are you?"

Pretty dense. I see beyond an individual sale price here and there. I zoom out and see number of sales plummeting like 30-40%. I see history telling me that before plummeting prices, you will have plummeting volume. But I guess that makes me dense. But I have your attention so you must be worried. Just sell. What's a hot shot "Hedge" Fund manager doing in Bed Stuy, anyway? Bread Stuy? Utica A Express stop?

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 9, 2009 2:19 PM

"Overpaying has no effect if you're looking for a long-term residence, all other things being equal."

But all things are not equal. You are VERY unlikely to see a boom/bust like this again in your lifetime (or before your health deteriorates). After inflation, the long haul argument breaks down mathematically. Fortunately, for those of you who wish to, and can, "hold on", you probably won't feel the REAL effects on your home value. But overpaying IS overpaying.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 9, 2009 2:25 PM

Didn't want to pony up the $2-3MM for elsewhere in Brooklyn because I've got 3 other residences, that's why. All of them with substantial gains over the past 7-11 years. No other mortgages either.

I think I know a thing or two about the real estate market.

You don't really "have my attention," and I'm certainly not "worried."

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 9, 2009 2:26 PM

"If rates go up on Miss Muffett (likely) she will have made a terrible mistake."

There would then be a proportional "affordability" drop in prices added to the already downward spiral. Mistake doubtful. And even then, a rising personal savings account can offset interest rate increases. More money down on a cheaper house. Same mortgage payment or less.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 9, 2009 2:29 PM

Dave,

I can't wait until 2 years from now when all these people look like a deer caught in the headlights when interest rates are 8-9%. Housing might cost 25% less, but you'll be making up for it (and then some) on the interest alone.

Posted by: 11217 at February 9, 2009 2:31 PM

"All of them with substantial gains over the past 7-11 years."

Don't count 'em 'til they hatch.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 9, 2009 2:32 PM

I think it is fair to say that we will see significant declines from here in the NYC area. How much of a decline is up to debate. However, an important point that the articles mentions that folks seem to be overlooking is that the runup in supply in Lehigh Acres has greatly exacerbated the problem. While there have certainly been a number of developments that have come on line in Brooklyn, the net effect on housing stock is nothing close to the runup in Lehigh. In addition, there is no "coop cushion" in Lehigh Acres to mitigate the rush of foreclosures, etc.

Bottom line, while things are grim here and will get signficantly worse, I believe that NYC (and even the close-in burbs) have some structural advantages that should prevent the kind of complete meltdown we are witnessing down south and in other far-flung exurbs where BOTH land and money were in abundant supply.

Posted by: bklyndoug at February 9, 2009 2:32 PM

BHO...you think that during a period of rising inflation and risinfginterest rates that real estate prices aren't going to rise as well???

Econ 101, my friend.

If you're keeping your downpayment in a savings account you aren't earning anything on it right now.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 9, 2009 2:33 PM

"Don't count 'em 'til they hatch."

***Bid half off peak comps***"

Again, the dense short-term thinking.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 9, 2009 2:34 PM

"BHO...you think that during a period of rising inflation and risinfginterest rates that real estate prices aren't going to rise as well???"

Nope. Lending standards.

"If you're keeping your downpayment in a savings account you aren't earning anything on it right now."

But "it" is still there. Neither Madoff nor you could touch it.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 9, 2009 2:42 PM

BHO,

You speak as though homes are stocks.

The people you are speaking to bought their homes primarily to live in and don't need to worry about how much they are worth for many MANY years.

Do you not understand that concept?

Posted by: 11217 at February 9, 2009 2:45 PM

Another Lively Discussion today!!!

I think BHO and DIBS should arm wrestle this one...could be a very successful performance piece...

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at February 9, 2009 3:00 PM

11217 - "The people you are speaking to bought their homes primarily to live in and don't need to worry about how much they are worth for many MANY years."

Maybe they do not need to worry - but they will worry and that effects the economy and housing prices overall.

The truth is no one knows.....btw I distinctly recall after the 80's housing bubble people said - "you'll never get another bubble like that again in your lifetime" That prediction didnt even last a decade.

Posted by: fsrg at February 9, 2009 3:23 PM

"Get the hell out of Brownstone Brooklyn until things cool off. If I needed to, I would. Sacrifice lifestyle. Delay your gratification. The options are endless if you're creative."

I hope you have given your wife this exact same advice BHO. I am sure she will appreciate you guys putting your lives on hold while you wait for the PERFECT time to buy.

Posted by: wasder at February 9, 2009 4:03 PM

Ok, let's hear the explanation of that one.

1. In Econ 101 as I learned it, rising interest rates mean that the price of income producing assets goes down. Real estate is a income producing asset. Why invest in real estate, which is risky and hard work, if you can make more money holding a less risky and less work-intensive bond? Higher interest rates don't seem very likely in the near term, but when they come, they'll make real estate prices go DOWN, not up.

2. Rising interest rates mean that the cost of owning goes up. That makes owning more expensive relative to renting. For both reasons demand goes down. In Econ 101 as I learned it, when effective demand drops, prices go down not up.

4. More fundamentally, the basic point on Econ 101 is that markets tend to converge to the point where price equals cost, because if prices are higher than that, excess profit can be made by creating more supply. And -- surprise -- high prices in Brownstone Brooklyn have led to an explosion in conversions, in-fill, expansion of boundaries, etc. In Econ 101, more supply and reduced demand means prices go down, to no more than costs.

5. Macro econ is usually Econ 102, but here too DIBS needs to explain a bit. From here it looks like we are in a period of DEflation, not INflation. Credit is contracting, jobs are contracting, demand is contracting, real estate prices are dropping, rents are dropping, interest rates are at historic lows, and the government stimulus efforts are expected to replace less than 1/3 the lost demand in the private sector. Most important for upper class NY housing, Wall St pay is shrinking. Why is this a period of "rising inflation and rising interest rates"?

6. Even with inflation (which isn't happening), rent increases (which aren't happening), loose credit (which isn't happening despite the government's best efforts), further improvements in quality of life in NYC (not likely if the City's fiscal crisis doesn't magically self-correct) no increases in supply (i.e., no development, no expansion of acceptable borders for middle-class buyers), and no drop in demand (yeah, right) -- prices still have a long way to go down.

Unless upper middle class/professional/jr banker pay suddenly jumps, BHO is an optimist. Half off peak would barely get us back to trend; markets usually overshoot.

Posted by: FinanceGuy at February 9, 2009 6:02 PM

"You speak as though homes are stocks."

Peep the category, 11217. This is a market thread.

"The people you are speaking to bought their homes primarily to live in and don't need to worry about how much they are worth for many MANY years."

How do you know? Do you have everbody's balance sheet in front of you? I sense a lot of distress out there. Leverage was a way of life. It gets real nasty, real quick, when the market turns.

"Do you not understand that concept?"

I understand the concept but I disagree with it as an argument. It is my sense that an overwhelming majority of owners bought in markets/hoods they could barely afford, not where they would have 6 months to a year of solvency left over in the case of job losses. Despite repeated warnings, as recent as two years ago, few saw October's crash coming (or even a housing crash at all).

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 9, 2009 6:33 PM

"I distinctly recall after the 80's housing bubble people said - 'you'll never get another bubble like that again in your lifetime' That prediction didnt even last a decade"

Ha! Nice try. That was the first I heard of such a comment. The 80's was froth compared to this recent bubble-of-all-bubbles. Loose lending back then didn't even come close to what we just experienced (illegal aliens and homeless/jobless people approved for mortgages, stated income, liar loans, fugeeetttaboutit!). Take a look...

http://tinyurl.com/g9vf4

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 9, 2009 6:52 PM

"I hope you have given your wife this exact same advice BHO. I am sure she will appreciate you guys putting your lives on hold while you wait for the PERFECT time to buy."

Actually, the advice comes from her. But we're fortunate enough to be in a very cheap rental situation. It's hard to give that up. Well, it WAS hard to give that up. Now rents are falling and looking more and more attractive.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 9, 2009 6:56 PM

"Overpaying has no effect if you're looking for a long-term residence, all other things being equal." -- DIBS.

This the main reason you should not engage these Assheads. It's hard breaking the delusional Psychology that warps their decision making process. This why America is in deep Ka-Ka and now screaming for Obama to pass out the skittles!

BHO and Team Bear leave these retards alone! Encourage them to go ahead with their plans. Buy that over priced POS, overpay to live in the Ghetto! Let them beLIEve that crap!

Check this out! This is Gary Ackerman laying down some smack-down on the SEC! These clowns are the same Mind-Set as DIBS, 11217,MM and the rest of the retards!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOKSkaQoF_I&feature=related

America is going to abyss, please (Team Bear) leave the retards alone. Don't fight the Psychology....

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at February 9, 2009 7:29 PM

It's not so much the assheads as it is the unsuspecting readers they might infect. PWNING is a must. The general public must be protected.

(Bear Mafia, La Cosa Nosedive)

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 9, 2009 8:51 PM

"It's not so much the assheads as it is the unsuspecting readers they might infect. PWNING is a must. The general public must be protected."

ROTMMFLMMFAO!!!!!!!! I see your point...

The What (Obama can I have the green skittles)

Someday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at February 9, 2009 10:17 PM

"Actually, the advice comes from her." Totally contradictory to everything you have ever said about your situation (wife is forcing me to consider buying etc). You love coming on here and playing bad boy but I bet you wouldn't talk all this shit with your wife around.

Posted by: wasder at February 9, 2009 11:37 PM

"Totally contradictory to everything you have ever said about your situation (wife is forcing me to consider buying etc)."

You're totally wrong. It was her advice to buy or rent a house outside of Brooklyn. But our rent is dirt cheap (utilities free) and the savings account has gone parabolic. If this wasn't the case then we probably would have temporarily rented in Queens and "bought back" to Brooklyn.

"You love coming on here and playing bad boy but I bet you wouldn't talk all this shit with your wife around."

Hells no. This is just my brownstoner personality. I play my position around her.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 10, 2009 8:58 AM

"This is just my brownstoner personality."

your wife can thank her lucky stars. imagine living with your brownstoner personality.

Posted by: wasder at February 10, 2009 9:13 AM

"because my wife has the desert eagle cocked at my temple, was'. I have to compromise and become an asshat. Damn nesting instincts. Got a spare wetsuit?

Oh well, Bed Stuy is mine when this shit bottoms out."

Posted by: DOW8000SP800 at November 21, 2008 12:47 AM

This would seem to be contradictory info...COmpromise and become an asshat seems to indicate buying a house in brooklyn to me, with the wife (who you patronize non-stop) holding a gun to your temple.

Posted by: wasder at February 10, 2009 9:23 AM

Asshat is buying at all in this environment (which spans back beyond November). Sorry, no contradiction.

I'm honored that you keep a database of my quotes. Thanks. That really means a lot to me. Really.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 10, 2009 9:40 AM

"Asshat is buying at all in this environment (which spans back beyond November). Sorry, no contradiction.

I'm honored that you keep a database of my quotes. Thanks. That really means a lot to me. Really."

Asshat clearly means "overpaying in the hood" (What's term as endorsed repeatedly by you). And don't flatter yourself. I don't keep a database of your posts. The website does that so that if someone makes contradictory statements it is possible to demonstrate the fact.

Posted by: wasder at February 10, 2009 10:03 AM

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February 9, 2009

Tales from Florida

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