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February 27, 2009
Open House Picks: Six Months Later
Comment: Mixed bag.
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Comments
Over a million for a place in greenpoint? jeepers.
Posted by: dittoburg at February 27, 2009 12:41 PM
Yup, sure looks representative of a collapse to me!!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 12:44 PM
LOL. Well DIBS you are, at least, consistent...But it is funny how people can look at the same data differently. The original Lorimer ask appears to have been $1,320,000 which puts the sale 20% off of original ask (and nearly 4 months ago too.) Now if the Brookyn Heights gets sold at 10% of this now 10% reduced price is it again going to be "10% off ask so business as usual?"
Posted by: Ledbury at February 27, 2009 1:05 PM
When did the Greenpoint place enter contract I wonder
Posted by: dittoburg at February 27, 2009 1:10 PM
I never said that many prices weren't unrealistically high. Many are, and still are. That will always be the case in any part of the cycle. Just greedy, ignorant or stupid. But places are selling for prices that many other people here still consider unrealistically high, yet they are selling. I think we can pretty much all agree when something is just priced so high that you wonder what the hell are they thinking. My point is that many places continue to sell at prices that many people would have thought unreasonable just 4-5 years ago. Not many brownstones have come down all that much. I think condos are a completely different story...especially those from developers that are suspect in many ways both financially and quality-wise.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 1:13 PM
I've left Team Bull for Team, "I don't care where prices go."
We are in an economic tsunami right now.
We'll see where we come out in a few years. Hang on best you can and enjoy the simple things in life. They really are the most rewarding.
I don't see the sales above as being particularly good nor bad.
Posted by: 11217 at February 27, 2009 1:19 PM
"I never said that many prices weren't unrealistically high. Many are, and still are. That will always be the case in any part of the cycle. Just greedy, ignorant or stupid." ~dibs
quote coming from a guy who bought @ $920K in the ghetto known as Bed Stuy...
Posted by: cornerbodega at February 27, 2009 1:22 PM
agree w/11217, data pretty much meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Anybody coming to conclusions from this = moron...
Posted by: cornerbodega at February 27, 2009 1:25 PM
$820k, cornerbodega...with lots to spare after taking my profits in Manhattan. And still very happy about it.
I sense real bitterness in your posts. I bet you feel entitled to something that you yourself can't afford.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 1:28 PM
I can't believe the Greenpoint house went for that much. Holding up pretty well for a marginal neighborhood. Well semi-marginal anyway.
Posted by: dosteov at February 27, 2009 1:30 PM
Just pointing out that things do sell and week in and week out it looks like prices are actually holding up very well, all things considered. But, unlike your crusade for a 50-75% fall in prices, my observations are backed by actual sales data, anecdotal as it may seem. I think we know who the moron really is.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 1:31 PM
DIBS - Seneca was recognizing "cornerbodegas" 2,000 years ago. Things haven't changed so much.
Posted by: dittoburg at February 27, 2009 1:31 PM
Discount off ask is just irrelevant. I don't know why people keep bringing it up.
In any case, over a million is a pretty significant (high) price for Greenpoint, no matter what the original ask was. Have any of you posters been to Greenpoint lately? If you discount the toxic sludge under the ground and the poor G train service, on the surface it is a lot like Park Slope with a lot of services.
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 1:42 PM
ditto...a little slow today...not sure what that means.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 1:43 PM
and more kielbasa
Posted by: dittoburg at February 27, 2009 1:44 PM
here ya go dibs, can anybody with a straight face say that BED STUY WILL NOT DROP 50% OR MORE?
Posted by: cornerbodega at February 27, 2009 1:46 PM
Bed Stuy will not drop 50% or more.
You seem to have some sort of proof that it will. Please, pull it out of your ass and show us. But, if some jackass who posts nonsense and vitriol all the time says it, it must be true.
Its not my fault you could never save up a downpayment. And now with the tighter credit standards, you're screwed.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 1:50 PM
Mopar I like Greenpoint allot. I like it much better then Billyburg. Comparing it to Park Slope though? It is less pretentious and more gritty that's for sure.
Posted by: dosteov at February 27, 2009 1:50 PM
Eh, it's full of twee little shops. I don't know.
Dave, corner, I believe Bed Stuy is a sound neighborhood and worth buying into, but it could drop quite a bit. I spoke to a broker yesterday who says he knows some houses coming on the market in Stuyvesant Heights in the $500,000s. And actually we were looking at one in that range a while ago. A nice place, but slightly too small (narrow and short). If you consider Ocean Hill part of Bed Stuy, prices there have been in the 400s for some time.
What would you say a typical price at peak was, Dave? When was peak, anyway?
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 2:20 PM
mopar...the problem is (as you alluded to) that the RANGE in Bed Stuy is do large...$400,,000-1,100,00. I think it peaked Fall of 2007. I bought in March 2007 and I know comparable places sold for more than mine after that. There's always a lot of places on the market there that are just not in very good shape...and they sit, and sit, and sit. There are two limestones for sale in the landmarked are but they are priced a little bit too high.
The other problem in Bed Stuy is that so many people have owned these properties for soooo long. They don't need to sell a lot of the places and just hold out to see if someone will give them an outrageous price. I've looked at a lot of those. They will never sell.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 2:26 PM
Dibs nobodys stepping up for you on that 50% or more drop. I also see that you have it all figured out. The owners will simply hold out until they get an outrageous price. Housing crisis solved!
Posted by: cornerbodega at February 27, 2009 2:37 PM
cornerbodega...its up to you to tell me why it will happen and support that argument since its the argument that you are making. You seem not to understand the most basic of things.
Nobody apparently believes the 50% drop, cornerbodega. Like I said, its clear that you don't have the capacity to argue logically.
Sad, really.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 2:43 PM
How can anyone take pleasure in the potential drop of prices in Bed Stuy? It's like being the Rush Limbaugh of real estate and wanting Obama to fail. I have just gone to contract on a house in Park Slope. Over the last 3 weeks I have made 3 all cash offers and been turned down on houses in Park Slope, Ditmas Park and Boerum Hill - they were about 90 per cent of asking. Real Estate is selling in Brooklyn!! There are sellers who think it's 2006, and that must be factored on to houses not selling.
Posted by: Jebby at February 27, 2009 2:48 PM
50% drop would put brownstones in prime Bed Stuy back at what ... $250k - $550k?
Please let me know if that happens. Cheapest I've seen so far there is $450k for a major 3-story fixer-upper, and it went into contract almost immediately.
Posted by: cwbuecheler at February 27, 2009 2:49 PM
*3-story major fixer-upper
Posted by: cwbuecheler at February 27, 2009 2:51 PM
Of course real estate prices won't drop 50% overnight. It'll might take a year or two for folks to fully realize the insanity of the recent bubble and for prices to hit bottom.
Dave's repetitive rant that there are still a few buyers out there proves nothing.
Real estate prices are plummeting and will continue plummeting until monthly mortgage payments can be covered by potential rental income.
The bubble days are over, Dave. Face it.
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 2:58 PM
In a world where GM, Ford, Chrysler, AIG, Citibank, Bank of America,etc are now worth zero, Brooklyn real estate is performing quite well. Of course the bubble is over, but brownstones and townhouses are not going to drop 50% anywhere.
Posted by: Jebby at February 27, 2009 3:05 PM
cw, do you not comprehend that nyc housing bust is at its infancy? Please tell me that you do since you're a prospective buyer...
Posted by: cornerbodega at February 27, 2009 3:05 PM
The bubble days are over, yes.
But you and your cohorts speak as though NYC prices are going to be at Toledo, Ohio prices in 12 months.
The thing is...even during the last bubble pop, prices were still high.
You all didn't buy anything then, and you aren't going to buy anything this time either, because you can't seem to wrap your head around the idea that nyc IS more expensive than the rest of the U.S.
Always has, always will be.
You need to get your head of your asses and stop waiting for Buffalo prices in the capital of the free world.
Posted by: 11217 at February 27, 2009 3:06 PM
All right guys, let's not get into the same silly arguments and misunderstandings. Everyone agrees prices are dropping.
Dave, very interesting. I know what you mean about wrecks that sit and also unreal prices. What would you say price (actual selling price) at peak was and is now for a 20-wide townhouse in Stuyvesant Heights with solid mechanicals/structure and original details? (With maybe four stories and one rental?) And is it hard to find one of these? (I mean, realistically priced, in good shape, from a real seller, etc.?)
Situation is slightly different in Bushwick. Far fewer long-time owners, for one thing.
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 3:09 PM
"You all didn't buy anything then, and you aren't going to buy anything this time either, because you can't seem to wrap your head around the idea that nyc IS more expensive than the rest of the U.S.
Always has, always will be.
You need to get your head of your asses and stop waiting for Buffalo prices in the capital of the free world."
QOTD!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 3:11 PM
ditto explained his remark above to me in the Open Thread. I think this sums up cornerbodega's problem somewhat...
To horribly summarize, and students of philosophy please excuse me, Seneca observed the frustation people feel based on an optimistic and unsupportable belief that the world is fundamentally just, that they themselves are just, and that they will be rewarded accordingly. When of course fortune intervenes and everything goes pear-shaped for them/or others get what they themselves want, it becomes an anger at why me, a lot of "its not fair" psychology (because it was meant to be fair etc).
He recognized this silliness and invented, for want of a better word, stoicism. Your friend CB seems like a missed-opportunity world is unfair rant-against-others type hoping for indivduals to fail.
He has more deeply seated pathological issues than just this but this is the basis for his real estate rants.
Sad really. He could probably ne somewhat normal if he sought treatment.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 3:11 PM
Thank you 11217 you nailed it. I have now posted twice that I bought a house and got no reaction either today or yesterday. It's funny how when you post something that actually has happened, no one responds.
Posted by: Jebby at February 27, 2009 3:11 PM
Or maybe they just need to shuffle off to Buffalo.
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 3:12 PM
That's cool, Jebby. Congratulations. I am not familiar with your screen name.
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 3:16 PM
cornerbodega - I am not a member of team bear or team bull. I'm a member of team "saving up a down payment and my wife is laid off so it doesn't matter what the market does."
If at some point I can get a decent brownstone in Stuyvesant Heights for $250k, then I will do so, whether or not my wife has a job, because we can afford that on my income alone. However, that hasn't happened yet.
I'm not saying they will or won't someday hit a 50% reduction. Who knows? But we're nowhere near it yet.
Posted by: cwbuecheler at February 27, 2009 3:16 PM
Jebby, so houses in these areas are going for about 90 percent of asking. Do you know how the actual selling prices compare to, say, last quarter, last year, or June 2006??? Because we really do not know where prices are in the "prime" areas of Brooklyn. We get very little information.
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 3:19 PM
I bought plenty of NYC real estate when prices made sense, and I'll buy more when they make sense again.
Prices will never go down to where they are in Toledo because rents are much higher here.
Folks irrationally bid up real estate prices over the last ten years, but prices will rationally fall back to earth in the next couple years.
Given current market conditions, a fifty percent decline from current levels certainly is in the realm of possibility, especially considering that prices doubled and tripled over the last decade.
Currently the DOW is trading where it was ELEVEN years ago.
Real estate prices don't adjust as quickly as the stock market, due to the limited number of transactions, but given time they will.
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 3:19 PM
I've never understood this reference to 'x% below ask' as somehow relevant. If I advertise my kid's old bicycle on craigslist for $8,500, and end up taking $5,000, does this indicate that the chidren's bicycle market is weak?
Posted by: Sparafucile at February 27, 2009 3:20 PM
Congratulations Jebby. Hope you enjoy it. Tell us more about it. Did we all see it here as HOTD once??
Funny thing, after I bought my house in March 2007, and started on brownstoner, i saw that mine was HOTD sometime the previous year. It was great reading all the comments. There were the usual....it'll never sell, oh, so beautiful, i live near there and hope it sells, can't wait to see who buys it, no fool will pay anything close to that in the ghetto!!! I'm still very happy.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 3:21 PM
1. Prime Manhattan to fall 40-50% as per Goldman Sachs, Barons. I'm sure you've read it.
2. BROOKLYN WILL BE WORSE THAN MANHATTAN AS PER MILLER SAMUEL:
"Prices are declining citywide as the protracted U.S. housing slump belatedly reached New York following upheaval in the financial sector. Cheaper, outlying sections of the city like BROOKLYN ARE AT RELATIVELY MORE RISK than is the commercial and cultural center of Manhattan during such times, said Jonathan Miller, CEO of appraisal firm Miller Samuel, who wrote the report with real estate brokerage firm Prudential Douglas Elliman." 1/23/09
3. GHETTOS LIKE BED STUY WILL UNDERPERFORM THE REST OF BROOKLYN:
"A new report from the appraisal firm Miller Samuel shows prices are down and the number of sales are down even more. The eastern part of Brooklyn was hit the hardest. We're talking Crown Heights, Bed-Stuy, East New York and Bushwick. Those neighborhoods also have seen some of the highest concentrations of foreclosures" 2/3/09
I just outlined, with references that 1. Manhattan falls 40-50%, 2. Brooklyn will be worse than Manhattan, 3. Bed stuy will be one of the worst off. 50%+ drop in bed stuy. Whatcha got besides delusional hopes dibs?
Posted by: cornerbodega at February 27, 2009 3:21 PM
11217, your dumb a*ss ways showing up again. No, nyc prices won't equal toledo, its a thing called relativity. 50% drops will still make it much more than toledo you idiot.
Posted by: cornerbodega at February 27, 2009 3:23 PM
Greenpoint is neither a "margin" nor "semi-marginal" neighborhood!! Dosteov - you gotta get out more.
Greenpoint has always been a very stable neighborhood. Even during boom time, turnover of existing homes was very low. The fact that that particular property just sold for over a million in this market is reflective of confidence in the neighborhood.
Posted by: Northie at February 27, 2009 3:24 PM
Cool by me ... If Brooklyn prices drop 50%, I won't have to buy in Bed Stuy. I'll be able to afford a Park Slope co-op, no problem.
Posted by: cwbuecheler at February 27, 2009 3:24 PM
I got actual sales still occuring, moron.
Please Mr. Obama, give me a downpayment. I'm entitled to it.
Yes, that's all well and good bodega boy but you still have to be able to pay the mortgage.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 3:27 PM
Mopar, I can tell you that I offered 1.925M on a house in the slope listed at 2.195 and had that price since November 1st, 2008. My offer was cash and the owners had already moved. I'm sure that in '06 it would have been at 2.4M.
Posted by: Jebby at February 27, 2009 3:27 PM
"Currently the DOW is trading where it was ELEVEN years ago."
And had I bought a house 11 years ago, I'd have 19 years left before I had paid it off and had ZERO house payments. Said it before and I'll say it again, you can't live in the Stock Market.
Some of us would like to pay for our housing now so that when we're 70, we aren't flopping around from rental to rental paying 5K a month for a studio in the Bronx on a fixed income.
Posted by: 11217 at February 27, 2009 3:29 PM
"The fact that that particular property just sold for over a million in this market is reflective of confidence in the neighborhood."
The fact that ONE property sold is indicative of confidence in a market?
Uh...Ok.
Greenpoint is fine.
Posted by: 11217 at February 27, 2009 3:31 PM
Mopar, I should add that my offer above was turned down. Sorry for missing my point. This was not the house I got but one of my three turn downs. I could add that a house in Prospect Hgts was sold before I could make my offer. Brooklyn will survive!!
Posted by: Jebby at February 27, 2009 3:32 PM
Jebby....i suspect that one you were talking about that you made the 1.925 MM offer is still on the market.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 3:34 PM
Jebby,
Congrats on the purchase fellow neighbor!
And I see we work in similar businesses as well!
Proof that not ALL homes in NYC are bought by Wall Streeters! Us music biz people can do it too! (Although my place is probably the size of your master bedroom, I love it all the same!).
Posted by: 11217 at February 27, 2009 3:37 PM
Brutal PWNING by cornerbodega at February 27, 2009 3:21 PM.
All that from Miller Samuel of all people (former cheerleader).
Team Bear...We Go Hard...
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 27, 2009 3:38 PM
CWB,
The problem with your theory of being able to buy in Park Slope when prices drop, unless you're an all cash buyer, is prices will have dropped for everybody, not just you.
It's hard to explain, but economic conditions (aka mortgage requirements, incomes, market psychology) change not just people's perceptions of what things are worth, but make the risk level of buying into a falling market much greater.
Maybe you're an exception. I too believe I have iron balls when it comes to real estate investing. But most folks can't muster the courage, and more often the cash, to buy when things really look bad.
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 3:39 PM
DIBS, It was not a HOTD, but a gut renovation not quite finished that friends were doing and couldn't finish. I sold my house in Cobble Hill last July and have been renting. I greatly honor your pride in Bed Stuy. Everyone should take pride in their neighborhhods whether they rent or own. There's very little civic discourse going on here, which the times call for. Stay strong!!
Posted by: Jebby at February 27, 2009 3:40 PM
"Brutal PWNING by cornerbodega at February 27, 2009 3:21 PM."
Actually not at all.
Cornholedbodega is using PREDICTIONS as his facts. All of the economists so far have been wrong!!! Remember a year ago when they ALL said the economy was in for a soft landing??!!
Dave and others are going by FACTS currently on the ground. Brooklyn and NYC prices have indeed held up beautifully. The rest is speculation about the future, of which no one knows yet.
You can't say someone is correct based on their cut and pastes from predictions from economists who have been wrong more than they've been right!
Especially not when they are cut and pasted by a sociopath.
Posted by: 11217 at February 27, 2009 3:43 PM
11217,
It's a good thing you're in the music business and not in the real estate business.
Dave hasn't quoted a single "fact" supportive of his argument that brownstone prices in Brooklyn are holding up.
Using Dave as "supportive evidence" always a bad idea. You might as well quote the What.
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 3:50 PM
"All of the economists so far have been wrong!!!"
Very true. But that was still a PWNING because the outcome will be WORSE. That is the current trend in economic forcasting (even for Noriel Roubini), not the other way around (i.e. overestimating a hard landing).
Team Bear...We Go Hard...
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 27, 2009 3:51 PM
Dave doesn't need to suggest facts.
They are here every single week in the recent sales listings.
Or you can go to a website called www.streeteasy.com and see that there are sales happening every single day in this city.
When we SEE sales of 50% off peak, then we can talk. Until that time comes, you all are just spewing crap.
Posted by: 11217 at February 27, 2009 3:54 PM
I think the majority of people would reference those sources vs. dibs a two bit ghetto speculator who got burned big time or 11217 who doesn't know the meaning of a relative % price drop...
Posted by: cornerbodega at February 27, 2009 3:55 PM
It's like saying that you saw somebody buy a can of soup for four dollars that was only worth two dollars.
Does that mean all cans of soup are actually worth four dollars?
Of course not. Even Europeans don't pay that much for canned soup.
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 3:56 PM
You seem to be having another one of your "stupid days," TinTesticles. All of the recent recorded sales support my viewpoint that there is no evidence of prices falling off of a cliff.
If you're the real estate savvy person that you say you are you should be able to read as well.
God, some of you people are so friggin dense.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 3:56 PM
BOH, Who did you root for in WW II?
Posted by: Jebby at February 27, 2009 3:56 PM
Actually BHO, I've said it before on here. I have a very close friend who works for a MAJOR media outlet.
They are BANNED from stories involving any good news right now. The good news doesn't sell in this day and age. It's being ignored.
The media is a FOR profit business. They are hauling out all the negativity they can get right now because that's what's making them money right now.
Don't be so naive.
Posted by: 11217 at February 27, 2009 3:56 PM
How many times do I have to say it? Prices have ALREADY FALLEN BY 40 % IN SUBPRIME BROOKLYN.
It's already happened. And guess what? Corner and Miss Muffet and BHO are not going to be needing new curtains anytime soon.
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 3:56 PM
cornerbodega you need to clean up your act. You really sound like a low life.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 3:57 PM
BHO, Who did you root for in WW II?
Posted by: Jebby at February 27, 2009 3:58 PM
11217 is exactly right.
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 4:01 PM
ahhhh how soon we forget. Dibs, you've started all the flaming and now you're just getting toasted.
Posted by: cornerbodega at February 27, 2009 4:01 PM
Jebby, thanks for this information. It's very interesting.
Did you check sales prices on Streeteasy or PropertyShark before bidding? Any sense of whether prices are going up, flat, or down?
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 4:02 PM
Yeah, cornerbodega i'm toasted. But I'll be living rent free in 15 years after I pay off my mortgage. You on the other hand will have seen your rent double.
Try and learn something here, jackass.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 4:04 PM
Dave,
Real estate price don't usually "fall off a cliff."
They usually take time to fall due to the limited number of transactions.
You're confusing your own personal "desire" that prices hold up with all the evidence out there that prices are tanking and will continue to tank as our economy contracts rapidly.
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 4:07 PM
Conerbodega's ignorance is terrifying.
It's got to be an act.
Posted by: 11217 at February 27, 2009 4:09 PM
I think the prices will continue to slide a little for the next year. But everything will be losing value, including cash. I bid based on what I had been seeing over the last year. I was supposedly in the best position having sold before the decline and was renting. But, I'd rather have a house in Brooklyn than cash in a bank that the govt will have to rescue. I was renting for $4500. a month for a five bedroom coop in Ditmas Park. It's a great time to buy. Go for it and thrive in the greatest city in the world.
Posted by: Jebby at February 27, 2009 4:10 PM
"You're confusing your own personal "desire" that prices hold up with all the evidence out there that prices are tanking and will continue to tank as our economy contracts rapidly."
Show me the evidence that Brooklyn brownstone prices "are tanking" IB.
Please, I want to see the evidence that you speak of so that I may learn. Please share that evidence with the stock boy at the bodega so he can show me as well.
Factual evidence, like house prices that appear in the Weeks Biggest Sales.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 4:11 PM
I'm not sure I understand, IronBalls. If I have the income and I have the downpayment by mid 2010, which I think I will -- why I wouldn't buy in Park Slope if the prices dropped 50% from peak. I'd be scared to buy because it was cheap? Can't see why.
It's not like the Slope's going to turn into a slum or something.
Posted by: cwbuecheler at February 27, 2009 4:18 PM
"When we SEE sales of 50% off peak, then we can talk. Until that time comes, you all are just spewing crap." - 11217
You would have told me the same thing if in 1995 I told you that prices would skyrocket +200%.
"All of the recent recorded sales support my viewpoint that there is no evidence of prices falling off of a cliff." -dave
Recent sales without the backdrop of the whole market? Very representative, dave.
"They [media outlets] are BANNED from stories involving any good news right now. The good news doesn't sell in this day and age. It's being ignored." - 11217
What if, hypothetically, they profited from good news? Where on earth would they get it from?
"But I'll be living rent free in 15 years after I pay off my mortgage." - dave
[Big time hedge fund manager takes 15 years to pay off Bed Stuy mortgage. Doesn't add up.]
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 27, 2009 4:18 PM
Lol what an idiot, dibs wouldn't evidence be prices for ALL SALES? Oh sorry to break the news to you again, when people refer to Brownstone brooklyn, they mean prime not the ghetto. For your sake, I hope you at least realize this?
Posted by: cornerbodega at February 27, 2009 4:18 PM
Ummm,
What can I say?
You're living in your old world, Dave.
Very little is selling. Prices are tanking. Hundreds of thousands have lost their jobs.
What will it take for you to realize the obvious?
The statistics you want won't be available for months. Aren't you in finance?
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 4:21 PM
"BHO, Who did you root for in WW II?" - Jebby
[brownstoner! Where do you get these readers from?]
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 27, 2009 4:22 PM
BHO...tell me that you know something about a mortgage, please. If you're here to learn that's fine becasue it is apparent that you are really ignorant.
cornerbodega is just plain stupid, which is not his fault. I'm not going to argue with you anymore cornerbodega, you just aren't equipped for the task.
I see NEITHER of you have provided any factual evidence yet of the "tanking" I thought not.
You've both been PWNED and its always so easily. I feel sorry for all of you.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 4:24 PM
I know this is going to come as a shock to some of you but there are those of us out there who aren't buying houses like they are stocks to be traded.
We're buying the home because we love it, we plan on living in long term, and look forward to a day when we no longer have to pay off the mortgage and can bank that money each month.
Why dos that never factor into your glee regarding the prices of houses?
Posted by: TownhouseLady at February 27, 2009 4:24 PM
Maybe corner's the same guy who heard something on late-night tv about how to buy real estate cheap, and made an offer on my coop for well below ask when prices were still going up and didn't realize that he wouldn't have passed the board.
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 4:25 PM
Very little is selling. Prices are tanking. Hundreds of thousands have lost their jobs.
What will it take for you to realize the obvious?
The statistics you want won't be available for months. Aren't you in finance?
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 4:21 PM
NO, I didn't think you had any evidence that "prices are tanking."
Enough talk with the loons for today.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 4:25 PM
lechacal hears spitball fight in OHP:SML thread through walls. Doesn't even bother to open door.
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 27, 2009 4:26 PM
It was very troubling to hear that BHO doesn't even understand what a 15 year mortgage is.
I suspect bodega boy doesn't either. And that's sad.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 4:28 PM
BHO, got me from Brooklyn for 54 years. Seems like you wallow in wanting Brooklyn to crumble for some reason. It's a wierd way to live. I couldn't imagine living in a place that I wanted to decline. So I was just curious about your past civic views to educate me. Not trying to say you're old or anything.
Posted by: Jebby at February 27, 2009 4:30 PM
Prices go up, prices go down. But over the long haul in NYC they go up. That's why it's a good idea to buy a place, unless you have rent control.
Jebby, I too sold a place, am renting, and think now is a great time to buy.
Any idea how much prices have gone down so far in those areas where you made offers? Maybe 10 percent or so since maybe August or so? Just guessing.
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 4:32 PM
Can I just point out that, for all the talk of The What, the single nastiest and most vulgar poster on this board is DIBS?
You all realize, right, that anyone can look in a rearview mirror? That with the NASDAQ at 4000, every bull was sneering at every bear? And every bear had to zip it as the Naz went to 5000? Other than a sale here and there, what actual fundamentals support an argument for bullishness in Brooklyn RE? I think the answer is none; and if all you do is point to past trends, you only support my argument.
Also, NYC hasn't always been the most expensive place to live in the US; that is just an absolute lie.
Also --no one is waiting for Buffalo pricing. They are waiting for an inflated asset to deflate, along with every other currently delevering asset.
Posted by: Whuh at February 27, 2009 4:32 PM
BHO,
Spot on recap. These folks are living in la la land.
It's important to remember that most of them are in the arts or some other non-business related field, so it's not surprising that they don't understand the real estate market and confuse the last several years sales figures during the housing bubble with the belief that for some reason their houses are actually worth those insane prices.
Dave is blindly defending bubble prices because if Bed Stuy prices revert to where they were pre-bubble, he might have to abandon ship and move back to Toledo.
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 4:33 PM
"BHO...tell me that you know something about a mortgage, please. If you're here to learn that's fine becasue it is apparent that you are really ignorant."
Okay. It costs interest and fees no matter the rate. All cash, something a big time hedge fund manager could and would pay {I know he/she wouldn't live in Bed Stuy but just work with me), does not. Tell me something you know about arithmetic. Please.
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 27, 2009 4:33 PM
Jebby - there's several people here who are for some reason rooting for "the ghetto" to return to Brooklyn. I'm not sure why, either. We really want to go back to crumbling brownstones being used as crackhouses?
Posted by: cwbuecheler at February 27, 2009 4:33 PM
Nobody will address the fact that prices have already fallen 40 percent in subprime Brooklyn. You all go on and on as if nothing has happened already.
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 4:34 PM
Iron Balls, Don't know if the "in the arts" comment was directed at the music biz folks, but I bought 6 pieces of property in Brooklyn Hgts in 1975, 2 in Fulton Ferry in '77, 16,000 sq ft lot in Red Hook in '84 and a brownstone in Cobble Hill in '96. And yourself?????
Posted by: Jebby at February 27, 2009 4:41 PM
Townhouselady,
We all presumably love Brooklyn and brownstones.
That doesn't mean they're worth millions of dollars.
And just because I believe all evidence points to the real state market continuing it's decline, does not mean I want it to happen.
I, for one, own real estate in NYC and stand to lose a lot as the market deteriorates.
It's just ludicrous to me that so many literate and fairly educated people continue to buy into the insanity that a hundred year old brick house in Brooklyn will still be worth a small fortune despite the collapse of our economy and the real estate bubble.
Once again, if your mortgage payment is above what you could rent the house for, you overpaid for your house.
It doesn't matter how much you "love" that house. We all "love" our houses.
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 4:47 PM
I was in grammar school when you started out, Jebby.
But I bought multi-family apartment buildings in a prime Manhattan neighborhood in the late ninety's.
I'm doing fine, thanks.
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 4:50 PM
I'd venture to say that someone who works in the arts and is able to make enough success for themselves to buy multiple properties in NYC deserve as much (or more) credit than those who have made millions on Wall Street by raping the U.S. and sending it into total disarray.
Nicely done, Jebby. It's probably best that we don't engage with the few sour apples on this board who wish the worst on their city and those around them, but sometimes it's just so darn fun!
Posted by: 11217 at February 27, 2009 4:51 PM
Iron Balls, Good, but I never said you were a dancer!
Posted by: Jebby at February 27, 2009 4:51 PM
"Okay. It costs interest and fees no matter the rate. All cash, something a big time hedge fund manager could and would pay {I know he/she wouldn't live in Bed Stuy but just work with me), does not. Tell me something you know about arithmetic. Please."
If he can get a 15-year mortgage at like 5.5% or whatever, with interest deductability, why wouldn't the big-time hedge fund manager do that, so he can put his ready cash somewhere else, where it can make him some real money?
Posted by: Sparafucile at February 27, 2009 4:52 PM
"Seems like you wallow in wanting Brooklyn to crumble for some reason."
I wallow in wanting Brooklyn home prices to crumble to an intrinsic value that the middleclass can afford to pay for. Prices are too high and unsustainable. There is absolutely no fundamental basis to support them other than a slowly collapsing Ponzi scheme. Both rents and incomes are falling. Wall Street is on a long term hiatus. Manhattan is getting cheaper.
I like Brooklyn now but I also liked Brooklyn before the bubble. That Brooklyn has already crumbled and will resurrect itself when prices crumble (the good and bad, unfortunately but necessarily). I want my old bodega and barbershop back!
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 27, 2009 4:54 PM
"It's just ludicrous to me that so many literate and fairly educated people continue to buy into the insanity that a hundred year old brick house in Brooklyn will still be worth a small fortune despite the collapse of our economy and the real estate bubble."
Ok, so I'll bite on this one. Los Angeles has seen drops of roughly 40-45% to date. Most people would agree that they are close to the end of their housing bust. Certainly closer than we are. Let's say worst case scenario is that they lose 55-60% there total when all is said and done.
Can you explain to me then, (according to your logic) why when I look at prices in the nice areas of Los Angeles, they are selling for multiple millions of dollars for a 4 bedroom home...? You know...about the size (or smaller) of a typical Brooklyn Brownstone.
Posted by: 11217 at February 27, 2009 4:56 PM
Maybe by "hedge fund manager" Dave meant that he's a gardener.
It could be a term the British use that isn't common here in America.
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 4:58 PM
"I want my old bodega and barbershop back!"
So basically you are stuck in the past.
I can't think of a single neighborhood including my own very gentrified one which doesn't have a handful of barbers and bodegas which have been around for decades.
That line says it all. You accuse others of propping up Brooklyn because they own, but it's clear you are downgrading it because you can't accept the fact that it's not 1980 anymore.
Posted by: 11217 at February 27, 2009 5:02 PM
DIBS - I love that you support the neighborhood. I love my house and I am very happy. We did not buy at the peak but I still do not want to see prices drop. Townhouselady said it best, we bought homes we love to live in and eventually not have a mortgage.
jebby - congrats - i wouldn't have traded Cobble Hill for Park Slope but hey....
Posted by: bkny at February 27, 2009 5:03 PM
11217,
Just like in Brooklyn, relatively few multi-million dollar sales are happening in LA, or the entire South Coast for that matter.
You're confusing news that some celebrity overpaid for a house in Malibu with the fact the very little is selling on the West Coast or the East Coast.
Why do you think 50% is a big decline considering prices have risen 200%-300% in many neighborhoods on both coasts over the last decade while incomes have risen much more slowly?
It's feels good to be optimistic, but it's better for business to be realistic.
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 5:05 PM
BHO....you also apparently don't understand the concept of interest deductibility.
As far a why I bought a place in Bed Stuy....there are many, many reasons. For one, I own three other residences and didn't want to shell out $2MM for something additional. Oh, and BTW, there are only 2 mortgages on all of the 4 properties.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 5:07 PM
BKNY, I prefer Cobble Hill to Park Slope. I had a special house that I'll never get back. I think Cobble Hill is the best neighborhood in Bklyn, but I am on a new journey. Half block from Prospect House is looking good, however.
Posted by: Jebby at February 27, 2009 5:08 PM
Meant Prospect Park, not house. Time to stop all this and go outside.
Posted by: Jebby at February 27, 2009 5:10 PM
Not to mention that thousands of houses in LA in nice areas are currently listed below a million dollars. . .
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 5:11 PM
Good point, Sparafucile, but where is this "real money"? He's already locked into a depreciating asset. And paying a mortgage to avoid opportunity costs is not the emmo of a big time hedge fund manager. That's something you and I would do (assuming you're not a billionaire).
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 27, 2009 5:13 PM
Jebby, I don't know who the listing agents were, but if they didn't build in a 10% discount for a cash buyer, they were quite foolish. 6 months from now they may be calling you back. Anyone selling a house needs some wiggle room in this economy.
Posted by: Iknow at February 27, 2009 5:15 PM
Besides, the "value" of your home is just a number it goes up it goes down. It essentially means nothing until you pull the trigger by putting it on the market and sign a sales contract. That is when you find out what the true value of your home is. For most of us that's not anywhere in the foreseeable future.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at February 27, 2009 5:19 PM
"Not to mention that thousands of houses in LA in nice areas are currently listed below a million dollars. ."
LA also has unlimited land in which to spread...
Posted by: 11217 at February 27, 2009 5:21 PM
BHO...you really still don't get it. I've explained it before. I sold a Manhattan condo for a huge gain and I was paying $5,000 in taxes and about $7,200 in common charges.
I had a mortgage that was about $2,300. I bought the Bed Stuy place with a 46% LTV...the mortgage is the same, $2,300...the taxes are $1900 and I get $14,400 a year in rent for the first floor.
The mortgage interest is deductible for me and deductioble against the income. I'm now bringing in (14,000 - 1,900 taxes - 1,700 heat) = 10,400 as opposed to paying out 12,200...that's a net gain to income of 22,600
Starting to look interesting yet to any of you morons?????
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 5:23 PM
"Besides, the "value" of your home is just a number it goes up it goes down. It essentially means nothing until you pull the trigger by putting it on the market and sign a sales contract. That is when you find out what the true value of your home is. For most of us that's not anywhere in the foreseeable future."
This is the best point on this topic to date on Brownstoner.
Posted by: 11217 at February 27, 2009 5:27 PM
Every heard of home equity lines of credit or being "underwater" with your mortgage?
The "value" of a home is not just a number.
For many people it's the only significant asset they own and they leverage it's "value" to improve their lives.
I'm a saver and limit my own personal borrowing too, but it's idiotic to make the claim that prices don't matter.
Turn on a tv or pick up a newspaper. Everybody, even Obama, now realizes the housing bubble and easy lending are largely to blame for the near collapse of our entire economy.
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 5:39 PM
I'll say it again: no one is less respectful or more juvenile on this board than DIBS.
Posted by: Whuh at February 27, 2009 5:40 PM
"I sold a Manhattan condo for a huge gain"
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 5:23 PM
This is the sentence from which everything else springs. Without that gain, you wouldn't have the large deposit. With a 10% deposit, your mortgage payment would be double = $55,200 a year.
Yes, you are doing fine on your numbers. Others aren't.
Posted by: the chicken at February 27, 2009 5:41 PM
I'm pretty sure DIBS is the guy who used to post as Svetlana on Curbed.
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 5:45 PM
We're back to 1996 levels on major indices. Layoffs are killing the upper middle class in NYC. Who exactly is going to keep buying these houses at these prices? Seriously, I'm curious.
(Silly answer #1: "There are always rich people in America!" Brooklyn was re-made over by the sorta, kinda rich. The sorta, kinda rich are now disappearing. Silly answer #2: "Duh, but look at last week's biggest sales." That is in the rearview. On a time horizon of 12-18 months, where is the fresh money coming from??)
Posted by: Whuh at February 27, 2009 5:46 PM
Foresight to do so, chicken et al.... your hindsight is truly amazing though.. I knew my condo was at a bubble price. it was the right thing to do. I don't owe any of you an apology for having made real estate gains.
I've never been critical to those that seem not to be able to afford unless they behave like these assholes here.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 5:46 PM
Whuh...you need to get a life.
Never been on curbed, IB. if its full of jackasses like you I don't want to go there.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 5:47 PM
Again --no one is more insulting, more ad hominem, and more vulgar than Dave --period. Could the reason you don't call him out on it, as you do The What, be that he's talking your book?
I know Dave: I'm an asshole, a loon, I work at Target, I wish I had your RE acumen, etc etc. Question: If you say these things about me, am I allowed to respond in kind?
Posted by: Whuh at February 27, 2009 5:50 PM
Dave, from all the evidence, you come on here eight hours a day. You also pretend to be a hedge funder. QED.
Posted by: Whuh at February 27, 2009 5:51 PM
OK...done with the loons today.
You were all truly breathtaking today in your belief that the future will come true as you hope it will, that basically anyone who owns a home is screwed, and with some of you, your total inability to understand the basics of a mortgage.
I just hope you don't go home and kick your dog.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 5:59 PM
I only have a few minutes, so I don't have time to pour over the HUNDREDS of nasty posts by the WHUH, but here are just a sampling:
"You're a pathetic crew, really."
"I really feel sorry for you, facing a life as an undercapitalized slumlord."
"Dave, you are truly a horse's ass"
"Dave isn't "merely stating" anything. Dave is part of a chorus of asinine and self-serving puffery that landed us in this mess in the first place."
"Again, you fail to see the nose on your own face, fool"
"If it acts like a jackass, and talks like a jackass...hey, Dave."
"Dave: You don't have to worry about me meeting any requirements for investing in your, or anyone's, funds. You won't survive this downturn, and I will, so be careful about presuming to the last laugh."
"IronBalls: standing O. The What: You're my hero. Dave: Don't cry, we promise to invite you to our end of the world party."
"QED: The day of the cocky slumlord is over. You know who you are."
I could have continued for another 10 pages.
Posted by: 11217 at February 27, 2009 6:01 PM
DIBS hallmarks: No answer to simple, straightforward questions, and instead, a gratuitous insult. The voice of panic...
Posted by: Whuh at February 27, 2009 6:02 PM
Whuh...I explained all that to you yesterday. I work primarily at night in the Asian markets. Its not surprising that you can't remember something from one day to the next. We started to have a somewhat civil discussion and then you reverted back to your jackass personality.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 6:03 PM
"Ok, so I'll bite on this one. Los Angeles has seen drops of roughly 40-45% to date. Most people would agree that they are close to the end of their housing bust. Certainly closer than we are. Let's say worst case scenario is that they lose 55-60% there total when all is said and done."
NYC has also seen drops of roughly 40 % to date. Are we close to the end of our housing bust?
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 6:05 PM
Whuh....I asked you yesterday what line of work you were in and got the assinine non-answer. You're such a hypocritical piece of work it's actually laughable.
Sunday's the first of the month...the rent is due.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 6:08 PM
"Foresight to do so, chicken et al.... your hindsight is truly amazing though.. I knew my condo was at a bubble price. it was the right thing to do. I don't owe any of you an apology for having made real estate gains.
I've never been critical to those that seem not to be able to afford unless they behave like these assholes here."
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 5:46 PM
I think I've posted enough on Brownstoner to demonstrate that I am a rational thinker and (in my opinion) a relatively balanced commentator. Yet you seem to consistently lump me in with the "haters".
I was not criticising your choice to realise a gain on your previous property - I have done the same myself on several properties in the UK. My point was that not everyone is in the same boat as you.
My calculation was an example of what would previously have been considered pretty normal (10% deposit) and how the world now looks to them.
This makes for some sobering reading.
http://www.fiscalpolicy.org/PullingApartInNewYork_April2008.pdf
In order to afford the net $40k a year mortgage, a family would need gross income of c.$120k (assuming c.50% of post-tax income spent on housing). Per the above link, that would put you around the top 10% of household earners in New York. Just recognise that most people are not as lucky as you.
Posted by: the chicken at February 27, 2009 6:09 PM
I have no idea Mopar. Do you think so?
As I mentioned earlier, I don't really care where prices go anymore. I'm not moving anytime soon.
Posted by: 11217 at February 27, 2009 6:10 PM
The chicken:
I don't doubt your facts, but my friend is 24, and manages one of the GAP stores in Manhattan and makes 65K a year. Plus incredible benefits.
I also have another friend (26) who is a cocktail waitress on the Lower East Side and she brings in well over 50K a year.
120K gross income for a family in NYC is not all that ridiculous.
Now I REALLY have to go!
Posted by: 11217 at February 27, 2009 6:17 PM
sorry chicken...i must have misread your post. And I was surprised by what i thought you wrote. It sounded like you thought I didn't deserve it or something. Sorry id I misread...to late now on the train!!!!
I know that not everyone is in the same boat as me. And, like I said, I would never act that way towards them unless they come on here spewing crap like Whuh & cornerbodega and occassionally, BHO. I think BHO is a weird animal. Hard to figure out. We think he's actually the What. IB is especially bizarre because he answers a lot of questions about rental properties and I believe he has a few. Then he goes off on some bizarre tirade.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 6:19 PM
11217, I don't doubt that your friends do well but that is false consensus and the reason why, in the bigger picture, you have to use scale data rather than just anecdotes.
Like DIBS, I also work for a hedge fund and one of the reasons I believe that so many of these "masters of the universe" didn't see this coming is because their social circles consisted of others fortunate to be making hundreds of thousands of dollars as well. They couldn't conceive that there are people out there "struggling" on less than $100k a year.
DIBS, sorry if I came across wrong but I think it's as important to read comments in the context of the author as for the content itself. Mr B, perhaps the "Posted by" part should come at the top of each comment rather than the bottom?
Posted by: the chicken at February 27, 2009 6:36 PM
Back to the origin of this one sided "debate". Dibs, not a single person came out to back your "Bed stuy will not fall 50%". Will be down 60-70% for low end Brooklyn. Have a great weekend in the ghetto, "mr. hedge fund manager".
Posted by: cornerbodega at February 27, 2009 6:43 PM
11217, I don't know either. But I think it's very interesting that we could be just as far along as LA is, but nobody is recognizing it. According to the Case Schiller index, the peak in NYC was mid-2006, same as everywhere else.
Someone else above or in another thread today made the comment that during the last downturn, some areas of Manhattan flatlined but never dipped. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this is what happens in parts of "prime" Brooklyn. Some people on here just don't realize how elite these places have become. They're still thinking of Brooklyn as it was in the 70s.
I'm predicting 20 percent down prime, 65 percent down in subprime -- max. Corner, BHO, Miss Muffet -- they're not getting their Brooklyn Heights mansions at Ocean Hill prices. I think that's pretty bearish of me.
I don't see Williamsburg townhouses dropping even $1. What do you think?
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 6:56 PM
Bed Stuy isn't low end Brooklyn. Not the part DIBS lives in. It's kind of between, like Clinton Hill.
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 7:00 PM
WOW CORNERBODEGA...YOU REALLY ARE VERY DENSE AREN'T YOU!!!!!!!!! SIMPLY AMAZING THAT YOU CAN'T EVEN READ THE POSTS UP ABOVE.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 7:05 PM
Come on, dude, I'm not that bizarre. Of course, like most people, I get carried away every once in while.
Funny that you say you're focus is Asia and you work nights. I'm actually in Asia right now. I couldn't sleep and wasted half the night blogging with you guys.
But I just picked up an awesome street breakfast. It's a lightly fried pancake wrapped like a burrito with scrambled egg and a sweet red sauce. I'm washing it down with a hot almond soy milk. For the equivalent of about two bucks it was an excellent breakfast.
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 7:05 PM
Where r u IB???
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 7:08 PM
That sounds yummy, IronBalls.
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 7:09 PM
I eat on the street in bangkok all the time...the food is great. Even a great corn on the cob!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 7:12 PM
Taiwan. Yeah, Mopar, it was delicious. Asian breakfasts can't be beat, though Mexican breakfasts are pretty damn close.
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 7:21 PM
Yeah, I love Thai food too. . . though in Thailand it can burn a hole in your mouth if you're not careful. Tell the waiter "mild spicy" and it'll still be the spiciest stuff you ever tasted.
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 7:25 PM
IB...not sure what line of work you're in but there's going to be an announcement on Monday about a tie up between Intel & Taiwan Semiconductor. TSM stock has done pretty well lately and far better than most tech names globally.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 7:27 PM
Grilled corn is a great thing. Especially grilled street corn.
Posted by: IronBalls at February 27, 2009 7:28 PM
"Not to mention that thousands of houses in LA in nice areas are currently listed below a million dollars. ."
LA also has unlimited land in which to spread..."
BS it does! Have you ever been there?
Posted by: RinTinTin at February 27, 2009 8:54 PM
OK, now I am really freaked out. I just took a taxi, and the driver was a laid-off IT network guy. With a family, and he's looking for a place for $1100 to $1200 a month. And his wife has a good job in the HR dept of an industrial supplier. Network IT guys are not supposed to be driving cabs. I love my job but I worry that it's completely unnecessary and I should be raising goats.
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 10:58 PM
"Again --no one is more insulting, more ad hominem, and more vulgar than Dave --period. Could the reason you don't call him out on it, as you do The What, be that he's talking your book?"
-WHUH PWNED DAVE!!!!!!
"I like Brooklyn now but I also liked Brooklyn before the bubble. That Brooklyn has already crumbled and will resurrect itself when prices crumble (the good and bad, unfortunately but necessarily). I want my old bodega and barbershop back!"
-BHO Spits FIRE!!!!!!
"I don't doubt your facts, but my friend is 24, and manages one of the GAP stores in Manhattan and makes 65K a year. Plus incredible benefits."
-11217 is a LIAR!!! How would "The GAP" let a 24 year old Asshat run on it's stores? Next!!!!!
"Bed Stuy isn't low end Brooklyn. Not the part DIBS lives in. It's kind of between, like Clinton Hill."
-Mopar the Ignorant. This why I hope they will never loan money to retards....
Wow I miss all the fun, LMMFAO. Look Team Bear very soon the retards will be able to test the "Brownstone Brooklyn will never go down" theory.
With the nationalization of the US Banking system underway, it only a matter of time...
Citi Gets Third Rescue as U.S. Plans to Raise Stake (Update6)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=avIY2hYYVM.g&refer=home
“We’re in these dire conditions, and this is a restructuring of a troubled company,” CreditSights Inc. analyst David Hendler said. “Common shareholders are severely diluted.”
Game over..
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at February 27, 2009 11:36 PM
Oh c'mon What, this is absurd. Have you been anywhere near Bed Stuy in the last 20 years? And you spend all day attacking people on this site who agree with you. It's ridiculous.
Posted by: mopar at February 28, 2009 12:00 AM
"Oh c'mon What, this is absurd. Have you been anywhere near Bed Stuy in the last 20 years? And you spend all day attacking people on this site who agree with you. It's ridiculous"
Can I que you in on a little secret Mopar? You see real people don't have to prove anything, got it! Now the statement-"Oh c'mon What, this is absurd. Have you lived anywhere near Bed Stuy in the last 20 years? You would've been correct Mopar but I'll let this dance in your head tonight. Oh BTW I don't have to get into the catfights because the Mutant Asset Bubble has exploded. Keep you browser lock over here-
http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates/index.html
When the 10 and 30 year rates goes Tango Uniform it will be the end of Brownstone Brooklyn...
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at February 28, 2009 12:12 AM
Agreed, the MAB has imploded. No doubt about it. So you actually haven't been to Bed Stuy in 20 years? You should check it out, real nice brunch at Peaches despite the MAB. Oh, I know, you don't like brunch. But you can get french toast as a side.
Posted by: mopar at February 28, 2009 12:46 AM
I shall knight thee- Mopar The Ignorant....
Mopar- Like a sick Monty Python skit...
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at February 28, 2009 1:01 AM
I know plenty about French toast.
Posted by: mopar at February 28, 2009 1:23 AM
The What reverts back to assinine self. Story at 11
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 28, 2009 2:09 PM
Ironballs,
You state that if your mortgage payment is higher than what you could rent your house for, then your overpaid. Since I need to live somewhere, I look at my tax adjusted monthly cost of owning a house (i.e. mortgage payment which includes taxes + insurance less tax shelter of mortgage interest deduction) and compare it to what it would cost to rent. If those two numbers are anywhere near close, it's better to own.
Posted by: Boerum Hill at February 28, 2009 6:29 PM
"BHO...you really still don't get it. I've explained it before. I sold a Manhattan condo for a huge gain and I was paying $5,000 in taxes and about $7,200 in common charges.
I had a mortgage that was about $2,300. I bought the Bed Stuy place with a 46% LTV...the mortgage is the same, $2,300...the taxes are $1900 and I get $14,400 a year in rent for the first floor.
The mortgage interest is deductible for me and deductioble against the income. I'm now bringing in (14,000 - 1,900 taxes - 1,700 heat) = 10,400 as opposed to paying out 12,200...that's a net gain to income of 22,600
Starting to look interesting yet to any of you morons?????"
It's looks more than interesting, dave. In fact, it's down right shocking that you think you're ahead.
MONEY PAID OVER 15 YEARS (today's dollars)
$500k down
$420k principal
$178k interest
$108k same cc/maint as condo or more
$29k taxes
----------------------------------------
$1.235M total
MONEY RECEIVED OVER 15 YEARS (today's dollars)
$216k rent
$500k sale (half off peak Stuy Heights comps)
----------
$716k total
NET "GAIN"
+$716k received
-$1.235M paid
--------
-519k loss
So, after 15 years you would lose your downpayment (barring another 'roaring 20's' type credit giveaway - good luck with that). And that doesn't even include renovation costs which I'm quite sure you've poured in there. If it takes a moron to tell you that...
davincycodeinbedstuy CRACKED.
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at March 1, 2009 9:40 AM
Whatever, BHO. you'll be paying rent forever waiting for things to come off 50%. Your social security won't cover the rent for a studio when you're that age!!!! ROTFLMMFAO
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 1, 2009 10:21 AM
BHO, even assuming the worst (a depression equal to or worse than the 1930s) Bed Stuy would have to be back up to 2006 peak in 15 years.
Do you think the U.S. is entering a permanent downward spiral? I can't think of a single developed country in the world where this has happened.
Posted by: mopar at March 1, 2009 10:56 AM
another great comeback by the super "hedge fund manager" dibs! Are you that pathetic to still use "bitter renter" as a retort?
Posted by: cornerbodega at March 1, 2009 11:00 AM
Worst case scenerio in the Times today, courtesy of Nouriel Roubini, one of the few economists who has been pretty accurate about the economic situation:
"And things could get worse. We now face a 1 in 3 chance that, if appropriate policies are not put in place, this ugly U-shaped recession may turn into a more virulent L-shaped near-depression or stag-deflation (a deadly combination of economic stagnation and price deflation) like the one Japan experienced in the 1990s after its real estate and equity bubbles burst."
I would like to know how we can have a ten-year economic crisis like the Japanese, with no layoffs, no crime, and lots of designer clothing for everyone.
Posted by: mopar at March 1, 2009 11:02 AM
BHO wonderful analysis! I cant wait for monday because of this...
The Dow..
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$INDU&p=M&b=3&g=0&id=p43740198157
We are at critical support levels! If this breaks you will smell napalm!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
BTW I got banned from Brooklynian.com!
Posted by: Return of The What at March 1, 2009 11:10 AM
"1 in 3"? Dr Doom is in an uncharacteristically optimistic mood. I put the odds as being more likely than not.
Posted by: the chicken at March 1, 2009 11:11 AM
Yeah. He's saying 1 in 3 chance the downturn goes past 2011.
Posted by: mopar at March 1, 2009 12:40 PM
Boerum Hill,
I agree.
Too bad Obama is attempting to reduce the mortgage interest tax deduction for folks in higher income brackets as part of his proposed budget.
It nuts on the one hand to claim that the various "bailouts" and "stimulus spending" is needed to revive the housing market, and then try to pass legislation to pay for it that clearly hurts housing prices and all related businesses, directly countering one of his main reasons for the spending in the first place.
Posted by: IronBalls at March 1, 2009 7:24 PM
"BHO, even assuming the worst (a depression equal to or worse than the 1930s) Bed Stuy would have to be back up to 2006 peak in 15 years."
Not in today's dollars. Maybe in debased 2024 dollars. This is not your run-of-the-mill housing boom/bust.
"Do you think the U.S. is entering a permanent downward spiral? I can't think of a single developed country in the world where this has happened."
No, but it will damn sure feel like one while we're in it. But I do expect our situation now to rival The Great Depression. Too many parallels (negative savings rate, no regulation, easy credit, etc.) and a multiplying consensus (even Obama himself). Like WWII, I think the US will go to war with China to pull us out of this depression. I hope I'm wrong.
Damn, did everybody see that Times article about people walking away from high six figure and sometimes million dollar deposits. You know shit is about to hit the fan.
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at March 1, 2009 8:33 PM
Hey Retards! I smell napalm and it's not good....
Pray that you don't hear from Lt Col. Kilgore....
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at March 2, 2009 12:32 AM
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Le Barricou
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