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February 23, 2009
House of the Day: 356 1st Street
We're a little surprised that this brownstone at 356 1st Street hasn't been bought yet. The Park Slope house hit the market just before Christmas with an asking price of $1,600,000 and was reduced by another $100,000 ten days ago. It's not a huge house—about 2,400 square feet—but it's in a good location with nice original details. Is the price really too high?
356 1st Street [Brooklyn Properties] GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
Seems like a good deal for Park Slope. Very Cute little house...
Posted by: Amzi Hill at February 23, 2009 1:20 PM
quote:
We're a little surprised that this brownstone at 356 1st Street hasn't been bought yet.
probably cuz i live directly across the street
*r*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at February 23, 2009 1:21 PM
Funny, I grew up on a few doors down from this place. Very similar house.
My parents bought it in 1974 for $25,000.
Posted by: Polemicist at February 23, 2009 1:22 PM
lets see now.....4 times the yearly income comes out to $400,000 per year in order to afford this house.
Posted by: landlord at February 23, 2009 1:22 PM
And price per square foot is still pretty high.
Posted by: wasder at February 23, 2009 1:26 PM
"lets see now.....4 times the yearly income comes out to $400,000 per year in order to afford this house."
sounds about right.
Posted by: Prodigal_Son at February 23, 2009 1:28 PM
I have not seen a floorplan, but if it really is a usable 2-family for 1.5 in the 321 school district, I can't figure out the problem either? That is a good way to live in that zone in a house and monthly rental income too. I suspect it is too small to make much of a 2-family and maybe that is the hold-up?
Posted by: WTbound at February 23, 2009 1:31 PM
Yes, 400K sounds about right to me also. Two earning household, each making 200K a year.
Is that outlandish to live in a neighborhood like Park Slope?
Despite what it was years ago, it IS an expensive neighborhood now.
Posted by: 11217 at February 23, 2009 1:32 PM
it will soon be that only wealthy polygamists with 5 incomes per family will be able to buy in park slope!
*r*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at February 23, 2009 1:37 PM
B'stoner "It's not a huge house—about 2,400 square feet"
According to PropertyShark it's built 18 x 40 which makes 2,160, but P'shark says 2,430 - how do they get the extra 270, it doesn't mention an extension? The same kitchen is shown twice and needs a ton of work, and the 2 bathrooms shown in the photos aren't exactly screaming 2009.
I like BP's wording of "Owner's Choice Of Upper/Lower Duplex"
Presumably the lower duplex include the cellar? Perhaps why the didn't show the floorplan.
Yes it's in 321 but without seeing the floorplan it's hard to know how it works as a 2 family and what it might cost to use a 1 family.
Posted by: 99luftballons at February 23, 2009 1:43 PM
wow - am kinda shocked this has sat since Xmas with a 100K price reduction as well!
am also kinda shocked that people make $400K a year combined!
hmm - my only guess is b/c its only 3 stories.
but perhaps just make it all 1 family - no??
Posted by: gemini10 at February 23, 2009 1:45 PM
Without a floorplan its hard to know. 99luftbaloons is right. The bathrooms are not great and that's a poor excuse for a kitchen. Also, they have painted the first and second floor exterior brownstone and it looks ridiculous with the top floor still intact as brownstone.
But, I think the reason it'll actually NEVER sell is because rob lives across the street :)
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 23, 2009 1:45 PM
ok i retract - yikes the kitchens need complete rehauling!
but it's prime park slope so I think it will get close to ask.....
Posted by: gemini10 at February 23, 2009 1:48 PM
pitbull, you said it.
If I had that kind of money I would live somewhere more interesting, LIKE ANYWHERE.
It is absurd to overprice normal houses like this one to the point where only the wealthiest individuals can afford them. What miniscule percentage of the US population has an income of 400,000 a year or greater? Are you people nuts on this blog?
Nobody is going to shell out this kind of cash today to buy a little house like this in Brooklyn, that's for sure, so the sellers should start thinking of renting.
Posted by: mcKenzie at February 23, 2009 1:48 PM
"It's not a huge house—about 2,400 square feet"
You mean not huge in absolute terms, or not huge for a 2-family?
I think 2,400 would be plenty for a 1-family. If you own a typical 20x45, 4-story townhouse set up as a 2-family (owner's triplex and garden rental) you're only getting 2,700.
Posted by: NorthHeights at February 23, 2009 1:55 PM
The floorplan is available at the co-broker's website:
http://www.orrandrlty.com/houses.html
I went to an openhouse and it looks like the upstairs kitchen has not been redone in many decades. It's hard to see how to use this as a two family - if the garden floor is rented out, it would basically be a studio, because it is one room plus a kitchen, and if the top floor is rented out, the only entrance to that apartment's bathroom would be in the common hallway.
Posted by: brooklynguy at February 23, 2009 1:57 PM
I would never have a configuration where the top floor is the rental and you shared the hallway with the renter.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 23, 2009 1:59 PM
Wow, the new math is finally coming. Maybe $2 million is no longer "reasonable" and $1 million "a steal," even in the Slope. And possibly 2-earner 400K families are not so "typical." Those in the dwindling ranks know a target is on their back at the shop, and they also may be realizing that prices are going nowhere but down.
Posted by: cgwatcher at February 23, 2009 2:00 PM
I think the way brooklynguy just summed up the house - makes sense to why this house isn't moving!
Posted by: gemini10 at February 23, 2009 2:08 PM
The broker babble "Co-Exclusive" is even worse than "Open House by Appointment."
Posted by: SnarkSlope at February 23, 2009 2:13 PM
It would work better as a one-family, but it appears to be super clean and in good condition. I think the kitchen and clawfoot bath look nice. I can't comment on the price, because I really don't understand anything over $600,000.
I went to the open house in Crown Heights this weekend, the one with all the original details and listed for $699,000 also from Brooklyn Properties.
The place is almost nearing the condition of Admiral's Row. It needs absolutely everything. The owner lives next door.
Posted by: mopar at February 23, 2009 2:14 PM
DIBS - in this house, the alternative would be to rent out the garden level (not sure how much rent you could get for it as a one-room-plus-eat-in-kitchen apartment with a garden) leaving the owner with a little kitchen on the top floor and no outdoor space.
Posted by: brooklynguy at February 23, 2009 2:20 PM
Good house, bad layout. Bummer.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at February 23, 2009 2:25 PM
Wow,
Check out the carpet on the stairs, yuck.
That kitchen looks like is was designed for a studio apartment, not a million dollar brownstone.
Nice location though
Posted by: Under the Radar at February 23, 2009 2:44 PM
"Is the price really too high?"
All prices are too high. This one is no exception.
Boom/bust aside and considering comps, for a three story, yes, this is too high. Must be a finished basement for 2 over 2. I agree that it is an ideal location though.
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 23, 2009 2:51 PM
""Is the price really too high?"
All prices are too high. writes BHO
Dumb, really dumb.
Apparently not the ones appearing in "Last Weeks Biggest Sales" EVERY week!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 23, 2009 3:11 PM
Right now, it's really hard to buy something which requires committing to debt of 2 times or more of annual income. Especially so when the absolute dollars are near or more than $1M. It's not the valuation or ability to get financing that I question but whether how many buyers are that confident or comfortable that this terrible econ wont impact them in the near future. Unless one has a liquid & stable reserve to cover 1-2 yrs of cash outflow post buying the property, it'll be an expensive purchase with a ton of worry & hesitation. Personally speaking, I would wait (& rent if needed) to get some clarity on price stabilization, job mkt, gov budget gap closure initiative impacts, etc. Rather pay a little more later on just to have that piece of mind that the worst is behind us. Again, this is a ton of $$$ vs. buying something for $200k. Not speaking for all but the many chicken-littles standing on the sidelines.
Mopar, that stove at that Pacific St house is closer to "vintage" than the simply "old" stove at my place - something Montrose confirmed when she dropped by my place
Posted by: more4less at February 23, 2009 3:29 PM
during the depression, people rented out individual rooms in their houses to strangers. Everyone shared the same bathroom and front door. Boarding houses were the norm then. That could be an option for that 400,000 a year earner who wants to stretch and buy a little two and a half story house. Without a more substantial income, what can they expect?
Posted by: mcKenzie at February 23, 2009 3:37 PM
I went to the open house and there is just no easy way to make this into a 2 family -- you would have to sink a lot of $ in it to do so. And if you want it as a 1 family, it's a crappy layout. The second floor has no bathroom, and the other bathrooms looked like they hadn't been touched since the 50s. I was also suspicious that it has been sitting around for so long. I heard that they had an accepted offer that fell apart. It could have been mortgage related but I wonder if there aren't some structural issues, too.
Posted by: msmallomar at February 23, 2009 3:46 PM
I went to the open house and there is just no easy way to make this into a 2 family -- you would have to sink a lot of $ in it to do so. And if you want it as a 1 family, it's a crappy layout. The second floor has no bathroom, and the other bathrooms looked like they hadn't been touched since the 50s. I was also suspicious that it has been sitting around for so long. I heard that they had an accepted offer that fell apart. It could have been mortgage related but I wonder if there aren't some structural issues, too.
Posted by: msmallomar at February 23, 2009 3:46 PM
"during the depression, people rented out individual rooms in their houses to strangers. Everyone shared the same bathroom and front door. Boarding houses were the norm then. That could be an option for that 400,000 a year earner who wants to stretch and buy a little two and a half story house. Without a more substantial income, what can they expect?"
Classic. Fabulous. Love it.
Posted by: shillstoner at February 23, 2009 3:58 PM
In this market, I'd offer 950K. If the current owners don't like it, they should hang onto it and wait about 5 years if they want to get 1.5 mil
Posted by: Manitoba at February 23, 2009 4:06 PM
i would love to run my own roomming house actually!
*r*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at February 23, 2009 4:08 PM
More4less, how's the rental coming along? Delightful Montrose came to consult.
Posted by: mopar at February 23, 2009 4:12 PM
Mopar, bxgrl came over too. Got some great insight from them. Will be dropping by the place every chance I get the next few weekends so I can be more tactical in coming up with the nitty gritty renov spec's for the GC. If you'll be around the area 1 of these wkends, let me know. Don't mind getting a 3rd opinion on it. BTW, they voted down the washer/dryer cause a good big cleaner is around the corner.
Posted by: more4less at February 23, 2009 4:21 PM
somehow pitbull I think your boarding house might become more of an animal house.
Posted by: mcKenzie at February 23, 2009 4:24 PM
does anyone have good info on how much brownstones have been going for recently? Am suprised, too, about this being listed so low.
Posted by: march at February 23, 2009 4:43 PM
there's a thread every few days or week or so with recently sold houses. i guess that's a good indication of pricing these days.
*r*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at February 23, 2009 4:52 PM
@pitbull - thanks for the help.
Posted by: march at February 23, 2009 4:57 PM
"during the depression, people rented out individual rooms in their houses to strangers."
It's still happening: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/23/nyregion/23partitions.html?ref=nyregion
Posted by: East New York at February 23, 2009 5:08 PM
there's a thread every few days or week or so with recently sold houses. i guess that's a good indication of pricing these days
I think this, perhaps, is where we go astray...
Posted by: Ledbury at February 23, 2009 5:57 PM
That's so cool, more4less. Do you have to do a lot of work or did they say it is already great?
Posted by: mopar at February 23, 2009 6:07 PM
Actually, there are alot of people in this city who have a family income of $400K. And there are plenty more who make half that but are sitting on hundreds of thousands in savings (past savings/investments, selling their own apartments for mucho profit, etc).. There are still plenty of doctors, lawyers, consultants, marketing executives, empoyed bankers, etc. in this city..
Posted by: saminthehood at February 23, 2009 6:33 PM
I've said it before and i'll say it again; the average partner in a manhattan law firm is pulling down 4-500k a year. That's not a guess, either. And there are thousands, if not 10s of thousands of lawyers in this income range. The problem is, they're just as leveraged as the rest of us...
Now to this house: I'm stunned that it hasn't sold at this price. I'm thinking either we're in for a massive correction or there are some hidden infrastructure issues. Yeah, it needs some work, but if you could afford it, you could live there and work on the renovation piecemeal. The 321-ness of it is a huge plus for a family.
Posted by: Bolder at February 23, 2009 6:59 PM
Listen, I'm not saying that there aren't a lot of people making 400thou a year. I'm sure there are. But what would those busy people want with a lame-ass little house three blocks from the Park? People in the top 1% of earners want the top 1% of housing. they are looking for classsy and showy homes that will impress their friends and family. This ain't it. It is more of a boarding house for some depression-era widow than an elegant abode for a high-earning lawyer or surgeon. I mean give me a break. You guys in this blog are in a la la land of your own making.
Posted by: mcKenzie at February 23, 2009 7:17 PM
gee, so many people are stunned. wonder why?
Posted by: raphael9 at February 23, 2009 7:40 PM
quote:There are still plenty of doctors, lawyers, consultants, marketing executives, empoyed bankers, etc. in this city..
yeah we know that, but is that all we want on our block? i mean yeah, maybe the answer is yes, but if the only people who can (barely!) afford such houses in brooklyn make up the demographic something is a lil f-ed up, you know what i mean?
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at February 23, 2009 8:02 PM
no one is buying probably cause no one can get a mortgage for what they earn.
the new rules suck.
Posted by: armchairwarrior at February 23, 2009 9:44 PM
Mopar, they like alot the place as-is. The bldg, size and details made it easy to over look the work needed. It's a decent list of stuff to renov but nothing big - minor stuff one normally looks for a handyman to tackle (ie painting, some tiling, refinish flr,..). Biggest item is probably removing pantry closet to allow fridge to reside in that spot for better flow. I'll know soon if it's really minor or not when I bring in some prospective renters to chk out the place as-is. We'll see.
Posted by: more4less at February 23, 2009 9:51 PM
minor?
This place is a dogpatch nightmare, it needs to be redone from top to bottom. that's a six month job.
Posted by: mcKenzie at February 23, 2009 10:07 PM
No lawyer making 400-500K a year while working in Manhattan wants to live in Park Slope btwn 5th and 6th Avenues. I'm sorry, but I have several friends in this income bracket who are lawyers, and they want to live in Manhattan, even if that means renting and paying more.
Of course, there are exceptions, but I think this house will only sell to retirees who feel like buying their spoiled kids a house, and there aren't many of those around right now.
Posted by: Manitoba at February 23, 2009 10:34 PM
Mckenzie, I wasn't referring to this place but rather responding to Mopar regarding my aptmt I'm trying to renovate to rent out. Sorry for the confusion.
Regarding this Park Slope house, personal opinion is cant see paying 1.5M and still have to deal with the time & $$$ of renovating it. I can remember complaining prices were very high 5-6 yrs ago and certainly didn't expect I would want or need to pay anywhere close to $1M for a nice place to live 5-6 yrs later. No doubt there are still a lot of people in NYC who are able to afford these prices but question is how many would be willing to pay these prices. If I made 400k/yr, would still hold out & wait. With viable rental options in Park slope, why risk "catching falling knife" to buy now vs. buying later post getting some better clarity in the mkt. if this was 900k, yeah jump on it now and that's assume one is making some big $$$
Posted by: more4less at February 23, 2009 10:58 PM
my god, we are in a financial meltdown at the moment, all those doctors and lawyers are taking a huge hit on their savings. everyone is feeling poor right now.
Posted by: mcKenzie at February 23, 2009 11:07 PM
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