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February 2, 2009

Developing: Pedestrian Struck at 8th and Carroll

This just in from a tipster...A pedestrian was struck, and is possibly dead, from being hit by an SUV at the intersection of 8th and Carroll this morning. I have heard reports that are not confirmed from a news source that I have that it's a male in his 50's. It is not a hit and run since the vehicle is still on the scene. It's windshield is smashed up. Sadly this is the same intersection (same side of the street and everything) where the bicyclist was struck and killed recently. A bystander believed that it was probably due to sun in the eyes of the driver going down 8th Avenue that caused the accident. But this is obviously just a guess. It's a very sad day for Park Slope.

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Jesus! These fuckin' drivers need to watch the hell where they're going (pedestrians too). Pedestrians ALWAYS have the right of way. The sun - BS - no excuse. Very disturbing.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at February 2, 2009 10:33 AM

It indeed a sad day for Park Slope, but what about the two children hit in Bed-Stuy by a hit and run driver. Why no mention of them? hmmm

Posted by: bigblackpants at February 2, 2009 10:35 AM

a cop on the scene told me that the driver was coming up Carroll from 7th street, not driving on 8th avenue. people drive like maniacs on and near 8th, especially close to the union street intersection. i saw another almost accident right after walking by the scene of this one.

Posted by: brooklyn guy at February 2, 2009 10:36 AM

There aren't enough stop signs or traffic lights in this city. SUV? So much to say about SUV drivers.

Posted by: cb6 at February 2, 2009 10:43 AM

The Bed Stuy incident was widely reported elsewhere and included in Daily Links...this one got its own post because we were breaking the news.

Posted by: brownstoner at February 2, 2009 10:45 AM

cb6...not all SUV drivers are the same.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 2, 2009 10:46 AM

bigblackpants--I think it's because this Park Slope accident is related to traffic patterns/problems. Many people have been complaining about the traffic issues in Park Slope for quite some time. It's a public safety issue.

Posted by: bk14 at February 2, 2009 10:50 AM

some, many, or generally. fair? not all.

Posted by: cb6 at February 2, 2009 10:56 AM

This was a terrible accident. The car hit the pedestrian in the middle of the crosswalk on Carroll St. on the park side of 8th ave. My thoughts are with the man and his family.

p.s. This is actually one block away from where the bicyclist was killed, but a 12 yr.-old-girl was hit recently at this exact same spot.

Posted by: bereallycareful at February 2, 2009 10:58 AM

SUVs exacerbate traffice problems. High vehicles always have massive blind spots. Combine blind spots, poor driving and lots of traffic and sadly this is what we get.

Posted by: Johnny at February 2, 2009 11:14 AM

while many of these accidents are caused by careless or incompetent drivers, just as many)if not more) are caused by careless or incompetent pedestrians. The only sure fire way to prevent these accidents is to physically separate the two. London does it well, NY doesn't do it at all. Pedestrians stand in the street waiting for the light to change or cross in the middle of the block. The way the death rate for pedestrians on Queens Blvd was dropped was installing a fence at mid block to prevent pedestrians from crossing there. Brooklyn Bridge Blvd has made it more difficult for people to cross in the middle of the block.
This accident no matter who caused it has a terrible outcome and is a terrible tragedy.
But its time to fix it and that is both the drivers and the pedestrians responsibility (in other words its yours and mine)...

Posted by: smeyer418 at February 2, 2009 11:17 AM

The Moday Links section has a link to the story of the two chilren hit by a hit and run driver......

Posted by: PHfamily at February 2, 2009 11:20 AM

I drove up Carroll to take my daughter too school this morning as she had a stomach ache. The sun was really really bad. I don't remember it at 8th Ave but at 6th + Carroll (where there is a school crossing guard -- Mary Anne, she's great) the sun was right in my eyes. Because you are traveling uphill and the sun is low in the sky at that time it is very difficult to shade your eyes from the direct rays of the sun. I recall thinking that I was very glad Mary Anne was there too keep any little ones from running into the street; because of my greatly impaired vision I doubted my ability to stop in time.

There's a school near 8th and Carroll too (Brooklyn Montessori). Maybe we need another crossing guard there?

Posted by: phripley at February 2, 2009 11:36 AM

Sorry, it wasn't my fault. The sun was in my eyes and I couldn't see.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 2, 2009 11:40 AM

this is really sad. I want to remind people that the poor fellow that died on the bike a few months back- rode into the back of a stopped bus. People tend to think that he was hit, but that wasn't the case.

Posted by: mellowjohnny at February 2, 2009 11:41 AM

Yeah smeyer418, an excellent idea to cordon off streets in a totally residential area like PS so it looks like London. Pedestrians in their safe little cages, allowed to cross only when its not inconvenient to the almighty car.

No, it's practically always the car's fault when it hits a pedestrian; it's the car's responsibility to watch out for even jaywalking peds (or cycles).

It's about time 8th Ave was made 2-way to calm traffic. I know this car was on Carroll, but then he was probably hurrying to be on the speedway.

Posted by: cmu at February 2, 2009 11:52 AM

Speed bumps work. I wish we had some on my street to slow the idiot teenage-racer who couldn't care less about kids or cats running out from underneath parked cards.

Posted by: dittoburg at February 2, 2009 11:59 AM

phripley, Anyone who can blithely say "because of my greatly impaired vision I doubted my ability to stop in time" has no business driving! Have you heard of the basic road rule: "drive at a safe speed?"

Posted by: cmu at February 2, 2009 11:59 AM

Please STFU with all the anti-SUV nonsense - Pedestrians have been getting run over when the only SUV was an athletic horse pulling a wagon.....

In NYC there is a never ending war between Pedestrians and Drivers - and amazingly the participants often change sides in minutes depending on the mode of transport at the exact instant. There is no "solution"

The only possible response is mitigation - Pedestrians have to stop playing chicken with 2 ton vehicles that will kill you with barely a dent and drivers have to be more careful as well - additionally the police should be instructed to IMMEDIATELY confiscate the cell phone/PDA of drivers and pedestrians whenever an accident has occurred - a check of usage will instantly reveal if someone is texting/talking/browsing while driving (or walking) and some high profile arrests of drivers (and publicity of the inattentive walker) will help alleviate the biggest menace of all.

Posted by: fsrg at February 2, 2009 12:08 PM

People drive entirely too fast on 8th avenue. I don't know why, but it seems worse on 8th than on PPW.

Posted by: new2hood at February 2, 2009 12:08 PM

I was just glancing at the nice brownstones to my left to take a picture. Sorry.

Posted by: cb6 at February 2, 2009 12:35 PM

Somebody in this scenario was running a red light if it happened in a crosswalk without a turn involved. Whoever that was is the one at fault. (If the car was turning, then it's the driver's fault.) I've seen cars run lights, and I've seen pedestrians step off against a light without even bothering to look whether any cars are coming.

Posted by: ProfRobert at February 2, 2009 12:35 PM

whoever in this thread thinks that is jokeworthy material should pretend that the deceased is someone you care about dearly and think about how you'd feel.

maybe this poor guy's kids were pulled out of class this morning by their teacher and then told that their dad is dead. that's knee slapping funny. what the hell is wrong with you people?

Posted by: BrooklynLove at February 2, 2009 1:03 PM

ever asked what's wrong with yourself being in this post?

Posted by: cb6 at February 2, 2009 1:13 PM

I live on this corner and saw the vehicle post accident - the driver was likely going fast as the windshield sustained a very hard hit and was smashed in a circular pattern. It is extremely common to see people rushing to make a light in Park Slope and the sight lines can be very bad with the incline.

Posted by: noah at February 2, 2009 1:18 PM

"Ever asked what's wrong with yourself being in this post?"

I don't get the question cb6.

I agree that texting is a massive problem and needs a severe crackdown. I also fail to see how sun in one's eyes made me do it can be an excuse. SLOW DOWN! If you can't see well, slow the hell down.

Finally, the answer, I believe, is speed bumps. They are a huge pain in the ass for drivers, and they cut speed by more than half. They are life savers and should be used much more frequently. I truly don't get why they are as rare as they are.

Posted by: Nokilissa at February 2, 2009 1:18 PM

The war is really Pedestrian vs. Cars (SUVs or Smartcars I don't care)

As a pedestrian who also has a car in PS, I am extraordinarily aware of cars when I walk. Yes I still cross a street when the walk signal is blinking, however I wont cross if it's stopped, even if the traffic light hasn't changed, because I know it's about to. This very morning I saw a dumb chick begin crossing Carroll and 4th Ave even as the traffic light changed! It only help up the cars for a few seconds, which isn't a big deal, but it could have been if the driver wasn't aware. In that case, it's not only the driver's fault for not paying attention, but the pedestrian too for putting herself in harms way.

I'm really sick of pedestrians not paying any attention.

Posted by: secondbecky at February 2, 2009 1:38 PM

Much as I hate speed bumps, I agree. People have absolutely no respect for being in a heavily pedestrian area. E-W streets are way too long and cars easily accelerate to 40mph or more, particularly when trying to beat the light.

Posted by: cmu at February 2, 2009 1:41 PM

This is just horrible. I like right at the corner where the cyclist was hit in September and can testify that too many drivers treat 8th Ave like a speedway. Not to demonize SUVs too easily, but just yesterday I did watch a big one barrell up Union at about 50 and blatantly go through a red light at 8th.

Also, the business about the sun in the driver's eyes just doesn't wash. If the driver was already on 8th, the sun would have been at his/her back. And if the driver had been coming up Carroll before turning, the sun would've already been pretty high in the sky--hardly the kind of light that make it hard to see. And yes, if it's hard to see, slow the eff down...

Here's hoping there are some real consequences for this careless (at best) driver.

Posted by: squeakslikeawheel at February 2, 2009 1:48 PM

mellowjohnny:

how do you know that the guy killed in the bus collision rear-ended the bus, and not vice-versa? i never saw that in any report. (this is a genuine question.)

Posted by: squeakslikeawheel at February 2, 2009 2:30 PM

my wife spoke with 2 people who saw it happen. sadly.

Posted by: mellowjohnny at February 2, 2009 2:44 PM

Odd that it never made it into any reports, which all described the school bus as turning. So was it actually the cyclist who was turning?

Also, I live on that corner (I was out of town when this happened) and wonder where the school bus would've been parked. I don't know what rules for school buses stopping are, but if it was parked, seems like it would've been in city bus stop, at Union, which is at the other corner, away from where the ghost bike is and the accident is described as having happened.

Posted by: squeakslikeawheel at February 2, 2009 3:13 PM

The car was coming up Carroll St. and crossing 8th avenue. I was close but could not see the signals. The man who was hit was not the only person in the crosswalk. There were people who screamed, stepped back. Sun was low in the sky and could have been shining in the face the driver. Again, I could not see the signals, but the people in the crosswalk seemed surprised the car came through the intersection, which suggests that the driver may have zoomed through a yellow or ran a light. This is all one perspective though, and shows how tricky bearing eye witness can be. Police were interviewing everyone so I hope that a clear picture will emerge.

Posted by: bereallycareful at February 2, 2009 3:17 PM

The other day I was driving in this area and was blinded by the sun for several seconds. It scared me because couldn't see in front of me. The driver may not have been able to see the light.

Posted by: dt at February 2, 2009 3:57 PM

a couple of things

1.if the sun is in your eyes and you can't see its your responsibility to slow down so you can stop not just barrel ahead.

2. about London...No I didn't mean pedestrian malls. London uses subways(places pedestrians can cross the street under ground) and fly overs to separate traffic and pedestrians even in areas that are not pedestrian malls. They work quite well. They work well outside NY City....but not in NY where there are very few of them...

The number of pedestrian deaths are DOWN from previous years....but there are still too many of them.

Posted by: smeyer418 at February 2, 2009 4:06 PM

I have lived in this area for 35 years and there have always been a high volume of accidents/traffic deaths on 8th avenue between 3rd street and flatbush.

1. Regardless of people's responsibilities when driving, the sun can be really bad coming up the hill in the morning and will come and go depending on the angle of the street and the pitch of the car, blinding you momentarily almost at any moment.

2. There is far too much traffic on 8th avenue going from the prospect expressway to union street/gap and flatbush avenue for the current street configuration. It gets packed during peak hours from 9th street to flatbush and the rest of the time people simply go to fast.

3. There is about a 15-20 degree angle to the left at Carroll that is difficult to navigate even when the street is empty.

4. There is a downslope going to 1st street that makes drivers speed up.

5. Too many people double park and that causes not only additional traffic issues but also driver frustration.

Thankfully, with the addition of the light at garfield things are much better than they used to be. In my opinion, the best approach would be to make ppw a four lane two way street and 8th avenue a one lane two way street.

Posted by: SJ at February 2, 2009 5:13 PM

Awful news. Yes, people drive like mad on 8th and the intersecting streets. I don't know what's the matter with drivers here. And yes, peds should also be extra careful to avoid accidents, even when you have the right of way. I feel like I've seen an unusually high number of drivers running red lights around these streets. I'm going to write a letter to whoever is handling traffic issues for the area, for what it's worth. (Anyone know who to contact - Letitia James or other?) Be careful!

Posted by: meerkatz at February 2, 2009 5:56 PM

Grand Army Plaza Death o Meter circa 1927
http://ephemeralnewyork.wordpress.com/2008/12/04/the-park-slope-traffic-death-o-meter/

Posted by: SJ at February 2, 2009 6:27 PM

Some of the commenters seem to be suggesting that if the sun is bad, people shouldn't be driving. Give me a break! Mind you, I don't own a car -- I think owning a car in NYC is insane -- but c'mon: for those who do drive, are they just supposed to stay home on sunny winter days when the sun might get in their eyes? Let's get real.

Posted by: BklynCynic at February 2, 2009 7:49 PM

Whomever posted "the pedestrian alway has the right-of-way" is dead wrong. I try to stay off of 8th Ave. but take it when (a) coming off the PPE, (b) looking for parking, or (c) dodging the delivery trucks on 7th.

At times the sun is killer on 8th. Double-parked cars on 8th should be towed, especially because they tend to park "slolem-fashion" making drivers weave back and forth between the lanes. AND, last but not least, it seems pedestrians on 8th have a problem crossing at the corner with the light.

If the light is green and you know you see me coming, cross the street like you mean it. If pedestrians can cross as slow as they want when they want, just abolish the lights and let everyone get in where they fit in.

Posted by: i_heart_brooklyn at February 3, 2009 1:41 AM

bkylcycnic, guess you can't read too well, is the sun in your eyes?

What I at least said is that you SLOW DOWN to a safe speed when you can't see too well. Or are in fog. Or in driving rain. Or if you're going blind.

And for iheartbk, it's not that the ped "always has the right of way," but that it behooves you, driving a 4 ton hunk of steel way too fast (or even at normal speed,) to err on the side of caution and NOT hit peds even if they're doing something "wrong", like jaywalking. Particularly in a residential area where there may be kids around as well, or do you think they should be hit because their parents didn't train them with the right behavior? Jeez.

Posted by: cmu at February 3, 2009 9:05 AM

The man who was struck was still alive as of last night:

http://www.ny1.com/content/news_beats/law_enforcement/93268/brooklyn-man-hospitalized-after-being-hit-by-car/Default.aspx

Posted by: FlatbushMan23 at February 3, 2009 9:09 AM

What a relief! I can keep driving my fat-ass SUV!

Posted by: Ppark at February 3, 2009 10:00 AM

Not too rain on the reactionary parade here, but the vehicle was actually a Honda CRV - not really an SUV. It's built on a car platform and really more of an awkwardly high-up station wagon.

That said, I'm a cyclist and am consistently angered and frightened by the commuting motorists speeds as they all funnel towards Grand Army Plaza.

Speed bumps, more lights won't do it. I don't understand why they local precincts can't position a couple of traffic cops on 8th ave once a week to ticket the 50mph drivers and bring this area under a little control.

My best hopes for the victim of the accident and his family.

Posted by: jebensch at February 3, 2009 10:12 AM

jebensch, that's a Toyota badge, either a Highlander or RAV4 (can't tell from the front view -- it not the current model of either one). DMV classifies SUVs as "Suburbans," hence the correct description earlier of a "Toyota suburban."

http://www.ny1.com/content/news_beats/law_enforcement/93268/brooklyn-man-hospitalized-after-being-hit-by-car/Default.aspx

Posted by: Eric McClure at February 3, 2009 12:58 PM

My husband used to work with the man who was hit and he is currently in critical condition. He is a long time Park Slope resident with three daughters. I would agree with some of the posters that the lame attempts at humor are incredibly hateful not to mention less funny than a joke my 2 year old might make. If I sound hyper-sensitive, it may be because my 24 year old niece was struck and killed by a car in December and I am still shocked at the sub-human comments made about the incident under the police blotter report in the paper. The internet can be wonderful, but as long as cowards can hide behind anonymous monikers and forget what it means to be a member of the human race, it's far from perfect.

Posted by: ParkSlopeTenant at February 3, 2009 2:51 PM

Sadly I was there and unfortunately saw the entire horrendous accident...and that is exactly what it was...regardless to all those on this blog who speculate and insert their own biases. Does anyone know today about the man who was hit? Those of us who were there who did not know him have been praying for his life.

Posted by: notablogger at February 3, 2009 11:11 PM

cmu: Sure, I can "err on the side of caution and NOT hit peds even if they're doing something "wrong", like jaywalking." BUT pedestrians should err on the side of living by not tempting a multi-ton vehicle by walking out in front of it. Why do pedestrians get a pass when they do something "wrong, like jaywalking" (which, by the way isn't just wrong, it's illegal) but drivers are wrong no matter what?! As a (good) driver, I drive for the other drivers around me. I can't walk for the pedestrians as well.

On another note, making 8th 2-way would be a disaster. Can anyone imagine the cluster eff of 4-way traffic at 8th and Union?

Posted by: i_heart_brooklyn at February 4, 2009 1:06 AM

I Heart Brooklyn,

Turning 8th Ave two-way in conjunction with the two-way conversion of Prospect Park West would alleviate traffic at Union and 8th, since Union backs up from Grand Army Plaza. Making PPW two-way would open up several more routes to and through GAP, whereas now, almost all traffic that wants to go to southbound Flatbush Ave. or Eastern Parkway or Vanderbilt heads up Union.

Notablogger,

If you were there, why don't you tell us what happened? You say it was an accident -- so, was the gentleman who got hit crossing against a red light? Did the car run a light? An accident implies that no one was at a fault, but if someone was struck in the crosswalk, something went awry.

Posted by: Eric McClure at February 4, 2009 12:31 PM

I was also in this intersection on the west side of 8th Ave - pedestrian was struck on the east / park side of the 8th Ave in the Carroll St crosswalk. This driver was FLYING up Carroll. Anyone who says sun glare is an issue...clearly we have all had this happen as drivers, however speed should be reduced if that's the case. I would estimate he was going close to 50mph. He flew by me across 8th Ave...I did not hear brakes just the impact and there were no skid marks indicating any attempt to stop. If you saw it, you know how he was hit extraordinarily hard based on how high he flew in the air and forward away from the car. We all share the roads, pedestrians and drivers alike. Neither has more of a right to negligence. We all must take care to know our surroundings, but speed limits were clearly not abided by in this case. It was a horrific scene that could only be caused by excessive speed.

Posted by: c711fitz at February 4, 2009 11:23 PM

Many of the same drivers use 8th Ave 5 days a week to cross from the Prospect Exp, to Flatbush Ave. They are gonna do it as fast as they can, there is no reason not to. The speed limit is unenforced, there is no enforcement of "use horn in emergency" and gridlock is a regular thing at Union St.

Why should the drivers care about the safety of pedestrians, that would just slow them down. The only reason they are in their car is to get where they are going as fast as possible.

The only reason (many of us) use our metrocards to get on the subways is because IF WE DO NOT WE KNOW WE WILL GET IN TROUBLE. Reckless drivers drive that way because they know THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT. If enforcement of speed limits on city streets would get the same that of catching turnstyle jumpers, the streets would be a lot safer for pedestrians and drivers alike.

I usually walk but I do own a car

Posted by: RingRunner at February 6, 2009 6:56 AM

i was a witness to the horrific accident as well, also on the west side of the street. Seeing the man fly that high in the air is undoubtedly the most terrible event i've ever witnessed. Does anyone know if the man is still alive. I've been haunted by the accident all week and praying for him -- tried to contact lutheran hospital but they couldn't tell me anything. Appreciate it if anyone knows with certainty the outcome.

Posted by: alex222fish at February 6, 2009 12:47 PM

More news from Streetblog. Apparently "the victim had died shortly after the collision."

http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/04/to-nypd.....e-a-car-is-asking-for-it/

Posted by: RingRunner at February 6, 2009 7:50 PM

I would rather beleive this news from Streetblog

http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/04/to-nypd-anyone-outside-a-car-is-asking-for-it/

Don Wiss

I have learned that the 57 year old man is my next door neighbor on 1st Street below 8th Ave. He commutes to work via the IRT. So he would have been walking north on 8th Ave at that time. I learned that he was walking with his daughter and the car was going up Carroll Street very fast. Apparently the car had the green light. Maybe talking with his daughter distracted him? He is in critical condition, but he is not dea

Posted by: RingRunner at February 10, 2009 6:28 AM

thank you, ringrunner, for yesterday's post. I knew streetblog was wrong because he did not die at the scene and was, in fact, taken to lutheran hospital and in surgery at around 11am. your description is correct: he was walking north and crossed carroll street on the east side of the street. The car was traveling fast. I looked up because there was a girl who screamed, clearly anticipating that the car traveling up carroll street was not going to stop at the light on 8th avenue. i wasn't sure whether the driver was trying to "beat the red" or if the light, in fact, was green. I'm guessing from your description that the scream came from his daughter. She was the one attending to him immediately. I can't get the shock of that moment out of my head, i feel for the woman (his daughter?) who saw the impact from inches away. please keep the blog updated if you hear anything more about your neighbor and his condition, i'm still praying that he will one day fully recover from this tragedy.

Posted by: alex222fish at February 11, 2009 9:51 PM

I am a member of the family affected by this tragedy. I've been reading these posts and I want to respond briefly to the community, and especially to those who were witness to the accident of February 2. Thank you for your prayers, concern, and good thoughts. The situation is still unfolding for us. My uncle remains in critical condition in ICU in a coma, under constant watch from his family. We continue to pray for his recovery.

Posted by: RFI at February 13, 2009 9:00 PM

« LPC to Consider Ocean Avenue Historic District After the Fire: Miss Williamsburg Diner »

February 2, 2009

Developing: Pedestrian Struck at 8th and Carroll

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