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February 11, 2009

Closing Bell: Are You Happy to Call Brooklyn Home?

As first reported by Brooklyn Hall of Fame, an article from YourNabe.com reports that most Brooklynites are happy. In fact, 81% of those surveyed said they were either “very satisfied” (27%) or “somewhat satisfied” (54%) with the quality of life in their neighborhood. Only 19 percent of those surveyed reported being “not at all satisfied.” However, 53% of Brooklynites felt their neighborhoods would become too expensive for them in the future.
So are you happy to call Brooklyn home?

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My neighborhood's already too expensive for me. The future is now!

Nonetheless, I love Brooklyn and am very happy there.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at February 11, 2009 4:10 PM

I am very happy and feel that I have found a neighborhood that largely matches my station in life.

Posted by: wasder at February 11, 2009 4:16 PM

It is too crowded. Too many rowhouses being chopped up into multiple dwellings, people living huddled in tiny apartments like Calcutta.
Sometimes I long for a less crowded environment.
It used to be OK because after all, it was pretty cheap. But now, it's like living in freakin' Monaco in terms of the prices, even though you look out the window and it's still Brooklyn. You breathe in, and it's still Brooklyn.

Posted by: sam at February 11, 2009 4:18 PM

we'd all be happier in Lodi, NJ.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at February 11, 2009 4:21 PM

it's a double edged sword for me. when people ask me where i used to, when i lived in manhattan, i would just give neighborhood name.. (les, then chelsea, then harlem) but now when people ask where i live i just say brooklyn. and i always get the "where in brookllyn question?" and then im like forced to say park slope. some people totally laugh at me. most of my friends make fun of me for living in park slope but i really DO like the neighborhood a lot. i was scared of making the transition from manhattan to brooklyn but i can honestly say i like it MUCH MUCH better. when i go back to work on a monday morning in soho i get this dizzying feeling (tho it could be a hangover who knows) cuz of all the people, i prefer quieter streets. the only gripe i have about brooklyn is that people in brooklyn (oldbies and newbies alike) just don't seem as funny as people in manhattan do. (uh except you people of course hahah).

*r*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at February 11, 2009 4:29 PM

I like Clinton Hill because my block in the morning is impossibly quiet. It's like living in the country in the city. I wouldn't have that in the West Village, or even most of Park Slope for that matter.

Posted by: DarkStar at February 11, 2009 4:32 PM

Never once have I gotten the Park Slope dis; the people I meet who ignore Brooklyn know of it but don't care. Neither do they care about blogs and other cool stuff, so f*** them.

The scale of Brooklyn suits me to high heaven, plus I work here. If PS outprices me anytime soon, there's lots of other nabes I can feel at home in here.

Posted by: infinitejester at February 11, 2009 4:38 PM

Rob, I know what you mean.. Although I currently live downtown Manhattan, I can't wait to go back to Park Slope. I was in such a better mood...

Posted by: SouthParker at February 11, 2009 4:38 PM

pitbull do you hang out with abunch of art school drop outs?

Posted by: Santa at February 11, 2009 4:46 PM

Nah, those dropouts might have MacBooks.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at February 11, 2009 4:54 PM

It is funny I once told a guy from Manhattan that I live in Bedford Stuyvesant. He said is that the same as Stuyvesant Town. When I lived in Ft Greene ten years ago I use to get oh watch your back. That was always a good laugh. When I lived in Park Slope I always got a good response. But that was before homes reached 1.3M and 5th AVE was not 7th AVE twin.

Posted by: Amzi Hill at February 11, 2009 5:19 PM

Brownstoner:

I enjoy visiting Brooklyn on Brownstoner, wherever I may be.

Nostalgic on Park Avenue

Posted by: NOP at February 11, 2009 5:34 PM

I love living in Brooklyn and I love it here in Bed Stuy. Its soooo quiet compared to Manhattan and other parts of Brooklyn. I love the ability to chat with my neighbors and make neighborhood friends; something that never happened in manhattan.

Yes, I wish there were more restaurants to walk to but Ft. Greene and Boerum Hill are pretty close by.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 11, 2009 5:50 PM

Rob, Park Slope lacks a sense of humor. Now you know.

Posted by: mopar at February 11, 2009 5:53 PM

I can't imagine anywhere more wonderful to live than the old Dutch village of Flatbush, home to hard-working people from around the globe, and an easy subway ride into the strange and exciting canyons of Manahatta. There is a really cool park at my doorstep, a historic district worthy of Newport, RI a block away, and the best neighbors anywhere. There are challenges aplenty, but then my motto for living in Brooklyn is: "Never Easy. Never Dull."

Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at February 11, 2009 6:11 PM

Wouldn't it be great if all the "somewhat satisfied" assholes went back to wherever they came from? More room for the "very satsified".

Seriously, if Brooklyn ( and NYC for that matter ) just aren't your cup of tea GO THE HELL BACK to whatever dismal suburb or 3rd tier city you came from.

Posted by: Prodigal_Son at February 11, 2009 6:22 PM

like the Caribbean, China, and Poland?

lame

Posted by: Santa at February 11, 2009 6:51 PM

Some people can't believe that I actually PREFER Brooklyn to Manhattan. I fell in love with Brooklyn in the mid 80s when I moved from the Upper East Side to Brooklyn Heights. I was much closer to work, I had a great apartment, I loved the peace of the place (after getting burglarized a FEW times in Manhattan), the beauty. Then when I returned to NY 6 years ago after a stint in a company in the MidWest, I decided to buy a building in Fort Greene and I couldn't be happier about where I live. Sure, it would be nice to have a few more stores around here, but it is so peaceful and pretty and I love the autonomy of having my own place. I really can't see myself moving. I'm home.

Posted by: donatella at February 11, 2009 7:26 PM

Santa-

"like the Caribbean, China, and Poland?

lame"

No, I have no issues with the people who have moved here from the Caribbean, China and Poland.

Try San Francisco, LA, Seattle, the Midwest, Florida, St Louis, Ohio.

lame beyond words.

Posted by: Prodigal_Son at February 11, 2009 7:32 PM

I'm from the formerly 3rd-tier Borough of Brooklyn, since 1961. While it has been nice to see Brooklyn undergo a renaissance, it's puzzling as to why so many feel the need to talk about how great it is. It reminds me of the way people in Seattle used to speak about Seattle in the mid-90's. More puzzling is the way in which new arrivals tend to be overly defensive about their new neighborhoods.

Brooklyn's a nice place to live, and I like Brooklyn Heights, where I've been for the past 20 years. The day-to-day is easy, and like many neighborhoods in Brooklyn, it's a good place to raise kids.

But Brooklyn is not as great as people make it out to be. We all live in a city with a decrepit infrastructure, and a lot of people can barely afford to live here. Nice to see all the changes for the better in the Borough, but it's not as good as it could be.

Posted by: buttermilk channel at February 11, 2009 7:36 PM

When I first came to NY, in 1977, I wanted so badly to live on the Upper West Side, most of which was not a desirable area at all. I loved the architecture, and most of all that sense of being in an area surrounded by creativity and the arts. I was a music student, and all around me were musicians, artists, actors and dancers, as well as all of my classes, workshops and rehearsals. Never did, couldn't afford it unless I lived with 6 other people, so I ended up in the North Bronx, and lived with my mother.

We looked for a house in Harlem for a long time, and almost got a couple, but the deals always fell through. Started to look in Bed Stuy, where my mother had lived for a short time as a child. The first time I came up from the A train at Nostrand, I could see the beauty of the neighborhood, and we ended up renting an entire house, where I lived for the next 17 years.

Over the years, I've explored much of the borough, and have read a lot of history, seen a lot of historical pictures and data, and talked to a lot of people. There is so much here, and there are so many people who have lived their entire lives in Brooklyn, and can tell wonderful stories. Manhattan is always changing, it doesn't seem to have any permanence. Brooklyn changes too, but underneath is a spirit of neighborhood, and that applies if you have, or don't have. I still enjoy coming up the stairs from the A train, and crossing Atlantic Ave to Crown Heights. It's a different world, and if I struck it rich tomorrow, I'd still stay here.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at February 11, 2009 8:15 PM

[quote]No, I have no issues with the people who have moved here from the Caribbean, China and Poland.

Try San Francisco, LA, Seattle, the Midwest, Florida, St Louis, Ohio.

lame beyond words.[/quote]

WHY?

seriously this makes no sense to me. Who gives a shit where someone is from. This kind of Xenophobia is the shit I tried to move away from when I left the south. I guess you can never truly remove yourself from ignorance.

Posted by: Santa at February 11, 2009 8:26 PM

I'm with buttermilk channel.

"But Brooklyn is not as great as people make it out to be. "

Indeed its not. Its amazing the bubble Brooklyn newcomers live in. They think Brooklyn is Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens, Park Slope and Williamsburg and not the 75% impoverished urban wasteland that it REALY is. Open your eyes people.

Posted by: Prodigal_Son at February 11, 2009 8:30 PM

Santa-

Heres what I'm getting at.

Im not born here. I come from another place. I am NOT a native so I CANNOT be called a xenophobe. The vast majority of Brooklynites and NYCers are from another place. But what I've seen in the last decade or so is disheartening. The nouveau riche who have settled here are self centered, care little about their community, disregard the "natives"and the people who came before them, shop at corporate chains and for the most part ignore and disregard established businesses and institutions that help shape the borough, They have little respect for what came before them.

I'm not ignorant. I've seen a city full of character, uniqueness and flair turn into a Gap ad.

Posted by: Prodigal_Son at February 11, 2009 8:38 PM

quizzote:
Seriously, if Brooklyn ( and NYC for that matter ) just aren't your cup of tea GO THE HELL BACK to whatever dismal suburb or 3rd tier city you came from.

that would be jersey city for me. it's not like i moved to nyc cuz i wanted to it's cuz it's all i had. it was the nearest city where you dont need a car and i just wound up here. it's not like im some im bumblefu*k from idaho nor a resident from bay ridge. how do you classify me? who cares. this city is huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge. especially Broke-Lynn.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at February 11, 2009 8:45 PM

quote:

good point... my own grandmother who when she found out i broke up with my ex and now live in brooklyn actually said (that's where bad people live!!!) btw she lived right across the river since 1936.. i told her no no no seriously it's not that bad anymore! she believed me i guess. it's funny cuz i told her i was like, um do you know where my last address was? and she was like no. i was like it was harlem! woo woo! she bugged OUT! places change for the good for the worse for the good for the worse and then a whole bunch of stuff in between duh.

this board has shown me that a lot of people do have a lot of newfound pride in where they live and that no matter what, in the end, they will still love their homes and neighbors, and even if things turn to pooptose, i think most people will have each others' backs. and that comes from a melting pot of various places. a lot of "true new yorkers" like to say that things will get bad and most of the transplants will go back to where they came from, but i truly kinda sorta honestly believe (and im psychic btw AQUARIUS) that they won't and make their neighborhoods a safe place to exist.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at February 11, 2009 8:53 PM

quizzote:

The nouveau riche who have settled here are self centered, care little about their community, disregard the "natives"and the people who came before them, shop at corporate chains and for the most part ignore and disregard established businesses and institutions that help shape the borough, They have little respect for what came before them.

dude, you gotta blame people like steve jobs and the brain trust of the interwebs for that sh-t/.. human beings are like Peakcocks. they are a lazy species.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at February 11, 2009 8:55 PM

Of course there is crime, racism, xenophobia, dirt, poor people, crumbling buildings and late trains. There are many neighborhoods where at least somebody may be unwelcome, and there are places where hope hasn't touched down in years. There is also great beauty, neighborhood pride, there are gardens and playgrounds in neighborhoods rich and poor.

One can still be happy, even though everything is not perfect. Where and when will everything be perfect, anyway? The bad things are everywhere, whether you are in Bklyn or on a beach in the Caribbean. The best we can do is try to carve out some area of happiness, whether that's your house, your neighborhood, or a corner of your bedroom.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at February 11, 2009 8:57 PM

i doubt many of you listened to rap music from the 80-s til the 00's, but most rappers, all of those born in broolyn, have pride that ive NEVER heard exist in any other place in the entire world. that should say something

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at February 11, 2009 9:00 PM

Kind of torn on this one. While I will always identify with Brooklyn as my home (born and raised) I can't help but feel that it's totally overrated. I live in Bay Ridge which has always been a solid neighborhood..maybe not as trendy as the re-born Park Slope, but we've held our own. I don't think I'm blessed to live here when people are just plain nasty, cars block my driveway all day long (maybe, just maybe I will have an emergency where I really need to get my car out), kids (and adults too) seem to have no manners, the R train is basically a slum on wheels, and I can't so much as put a garbage pail outside without it being stolen.

But then again, it's Brooklyn and what do I expect? I am used to this. There is something about Brooklyn that I can't quite put my finger on, but it is and will always be home. Maybe I would be slightly happier if I were one of those people priced out of Manhattan who counts their lucky stars to have only paid 1M for a house/condo..then I could feel like I got a bargain on something and that makes everything else look okay.

I think Brooklyn (and all of NYC) is really a catch 22. You can love it and hate it all at the same time. Just depends on your mood on any given day.

Posted by: bklynjax at February 11, 2009 9:01 PM

I think Brooklyn (and all of NYC) is really a catch 22. You can love it and hate it all at the same time. Just depends on your mood on any given day.

Posted by: bklynjax at February 11, 2009 9:01 PM

I think Brooklyn (and all of NYC) is really a catch 22. You can love it and hate it all at the same time. Just depends on your mood on any given day.

Posted by: bklynjax at February 11, 2009 9:01 PM

sorry, not sure why that posted three times

Posted by: bklynjax at February 11, 2009 9:03 PM

quizzote:

I think Brooklyn (and all of NYC) is really a catch 22. You can love it and hate it all at the same time. Just depends on your mood on any given day.

troof! you even had to say it thrice :)

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at February 11, 2009 9:04 PM

Brooklyn is my second choice; I'd still prefer to live in Manhattan. Going back to Ohio is not an option - I need to live in NYC for work and I love NYC's cultural offerings ( although NYC no longer has the lock on culture; the cultural diaspora has reached every corner of the universe thanks to the interwebs).
I'm here in Brooklyn because I couldn't afford the amount of space I desired while living there. But I've always lived here somewhat grudgingly and I agree with the respondents who claimed that Brooklyn is overrated. In most cases I find that Brooklyn is home to people that don't have the drive to survive in Manhattan and they overcompensate with their 718 tee shirts and Brooklyn boosterism. Brooklyn is a borough of comfortable shoes and lukewarm food - something about Manhattan's razor sharpness is attractive to me even while I was struggling to keep up with it.
And before you tear me to pieces, I realize that Manhattan has become a corporate-sponsored playpen for rich twenty five year olds. Still, Brooklyn in contrast seems like a retirement community to me. A weekend in Brooklyn means sipping a free-trade coffee while updating your vegan blog at a cafe with ugly second-hand furniture.

Maybe I WILL move back to Ohio.

Posted by: houseowax at February 11, 2009 9:16 PM

Brownstone Brooklyn (expensive Brooklyn) is alright. It is not as beautiful and civilized as the expensive parts of Manhattan, but for homebodies it is fine. I do think that it has a long way to go to become a truly desirable place to live. Poverty is a huge problem. So is crime. So is dirt and pollution. Let's face it folks, we do not live in an Edenic environment. In fact, in many ways it is the pits. I have become somewhat disillusioned with Brooklyn. For me, living here is dirt cheap. My house is paid for. My taxes are low and I make a good income. But I am wondering more and more, what would it be like to live in Greenwich? or New Canaan? or Rye? Leafy, clean, rich, safe, quiet????
It is a crisis. I am heavily leaning towards safe and quiet. And the prices in certain parts of Brooklyn make the tony suburbs seem like bargains. I dunno, I may be reaching the end of this chapter.

Posted by: sam at February 11, 2009 10:28 PM

It will be nice to se when we get a reversal in the renting market. What is going to happen to Brooklyn when all the artist and muscicians living six to an apartment decide to move to Manhatten because of the lower rents there. Does it mean Brooklyn will have affordable rents for familis again and we see a big influx of immigrants from Jersey. We will go back to the loving family neighborhoods like the old times. We will stop turning churches into condos and we will be able to get coffee for 50 cents again. All the Starbucks will be closed for lack of business.

Posted by: hannible at February 11, 2009 11:43 PM

sam- you go where you think you'll be happiest. More power to you. I love Brooklyn, in part because in some ways it reminds me of growing up in the Bronx. But I know I could live in a number of places and still be happy- I'm looking for leafy and clean for the future, but home is where i make it, not where the map says I am.

Posted by: bxgrl at February 11, 2009 11:46 PM

quizzote:
when all the artist and muscicians living six to an apartment

oh c'mon please. this is not 1981. you know that really doesnt exist right? that is bullshit nyc sentimentality. perhaps immigrants actually WORKING to feed your asses might , but artists/? nah. most artists in nyc only and i say ONLY come here with pocketbooks fuller than most people who have worked here their entire lives.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at February 11, 2009 11:57 PM

most of the "newcomers" i know that have moved to brooklyn live in bed-stuy, crown heights and bushwick. They're the same people that would have moved to the East Village and the LES 20 or 30 years ago. Its still to not understand that people from NJ and everywhere else in the United States have been flooding to new york for the last 200 years. I mean every interesting person who lived in the lower east side was from some shit town in the midwest, the south or jersey.

every new community that moves here has problems with the old guard. Wtf do you think West Side Story was about?

Posted by: Santa at February 12, 2009 12:22 AM

i think i figured out what "new brooklyn" really is!!! from reading some random book i found on a stoop of all places... it's based on a French sociologist named Pierre Bourdieu and his concept of "culture capital". - how cultural experiences acted as a boundary between the elites and the lower classes. The high prices of brooklyn real estate now are a prime example of culture capital. "The purpose of..." a house in brooklyn is not so much as it is housing and basic needs as it is a way of signifying one's membership in a certain class, an elite liberal with the indoctrination of high expectations, not hard actualities, "a smug belief in one's own entitlement."

i totally hate that but it rings true, no?

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at February 12, 2009 9:13 AM

I like brooklyn, but if I struck it rich? I can't say I wouldn't move to the Amalfi Coast or Florence or Santa Barbara or London or Hong Kong or Rome or .. one of each?

Posted by: Ringo at February 12, 2009 9:14 AM

I moved here after getting priced out of Manhattan with the intention to rent for a while and eventually buy a place once I knew the areas better (of all the stupidities of the real estate bubble, buying property in Brooklyn or Queens neighborhoods that you didn't know very well seems to me the most stupid).

I've liked Brooklyn, but I can't really say I've fallen in love with it.

Perhaps there is too much tension between the long term residents and newer residents in my little area of the north slope, because I have never felt a particularly friendly neighborly vibe here. Too many people think like Prodigal Son, I suppose.

And my street is one of the ones that people use when zooming from 3rd/4th ave to flatbush, so rush hour has noisy and moderately dangerous street traffic.

The commute is wearing. An extra 15-20 minutes 10 times a week for both my wife and for me adds up to a lot of our time in the course of the year, which might not be so bad if you could routinely get a seat on the 2, 3, 4, or 5 during rush hour, but the trains are pretty packed by the time they get to Atlantic. And I don't love having a river between me and my son while he is at daycare.

And I miss the Union Square farmers market.

On the plus side, the neighborhood is very family friendly (despite the anti-stroller screeching you can read on message boards) and generally more convenient for someone without a car than I would have expected outside Manhattan. The daycare is expensive but good. The restaurants are nice and welcome kids more than Manhattan restaurants do.

I guess what it really comes down to is I want more for my money if I'm going to stay in Brooklyn. But so many people seem to have a true preference for Brooklyn over Manhattan that perhaps I cannot get more for my money here -- especially now that the bubble has popped and Manhattan looks like it is deflating much faster than Brooklyn.

We shall see. I could live here. I could raise my son here. In time, no doubt, I would become part of whatever neighborhood I settled into.

But I don't know. At some point in the next few years I will have to do some calculations involving costs, commuting times, school districts, quality of life, and whether or not I have laundry in my apartment (it's amazing how much this starts to matter when someone is puking or pooping on garments on a daily basis...).

All in all, I kinda wish I just could have renewed my Manhattan lease in 2007, but a 40% rent increase is a little tough to take. I'm sure that apartment can be had now for no more than 10% over my old lease, but, what can you do? Real estate is a very inefficient market.

Posted by: northsloperenter at February 12, 2009 9:25 AM

quote:

And I don't love having a river between me and my son while he is at daycare.

:-/

Posted by: PitbullNYC at February 12, 2009 9:28 AM

ive thought about moving to woodside because theres no drama and newspaper articles about it.

Posted by: Santa at February 12, 2009 10:00 AM

I've come to prefer Brooklyn over Manhattan for both the quiet and outdoor space. I totally love having a backyard. I lived in the Village for years, and as I walked around there last weekend, I was envious of the better shopping but not of the packed sidewalks and heavy traffic.

Posted by: tinarina at February 12, 2009 10:04 AM

Hey Rob,

Thanks for the Bourdieu reference. Totally nails it.

Posted by: buttermilk channel at February 12, 2009 10:42 AM

My grandfather - a WW2 Navy ship captain stationed first in Manhattan and then in Long Beach, LI - famously said "People from Brooklyn love it because they have to."

There's a lot of griping about "newcomers" and "outsiders". I guess I'm a "newcomer", even though parts of my family lived in Brooklyn at various times for a hundred and fifty years or more. I grew up in Central NY hearing stories about Brooklyn from my great grandmother who would have liked nothing more than a bus to Coney Island, right from her doorstep.

The interesting thing about NYC, including Brooklyn, is that its own residents spew forth thru the entire northeast - very few New England or New York State towns are composed solely of "natives". Former New Yorkers move into small towns and immediately try to tell everyone there "how it's REALLY done".

Upstate, us townies used to laugh at fools who came north without drivers licenses, planning to buy a cow and make a living growing organic arugula. Suprise - sometimes it worked!

What I once liked best about Brooklyn was - unlike the small town I grew up in - nobody knew your business. But since the blogosphere, that's no longer true.

The knife cuts both ways.

I've lived here since '71 and lots has changed. I like my borough but that doesn't mean there remains no room for improvement.

Posted by: Stonergut at February 12, 2009 11:32 AM

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February 11, 2009

Closing Bell: Are You Happy to Call Brooklyn Home?

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