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January 9, 2009

High Hopes for Hoyt Street?

abreu-grocery-hoyt-street-0109.jpg
We'll confess to not having a great grasp of retail rents around the borough, but, with the economy tanking, we are increasingly interested to see how stores, and the cost of renting them, react. A friend of ours in Boerum Hill recently commented to us that he'd noticed a handful of stores for rent on Hoyt Street across from the Gowanus Houses and, perhaps overly-optimistically, noted that he thought the stretch might be ready for an upgrade in retail offerings. One of the spots currently for rent is the former Abreu Grocery at 244 Hoyt Street; the monthly asking rent for the 950-square-foot space is $3,000. Do any locals share this optimism? Ideas for businesses that could work?
244 Hoyt Street [Rapid Realty] GMAP
Photo by Kate Leonova for PropertyShark




Posted by Brownstoner at 11:01 AM | Comments (32)
Categories: Boerum Hill, Gowanus, Streetlevel

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Comments

3K for that corner, even though a corner space is...insane.

I live 3 blocks away.

Thats ballsy.

Posted by: Prodigal_Son at January 9, 2009 11:05 AM

prodigal - why is 3k insane? it comes out to $38/sq foot. seems like a good rate for the space.

Posted by: landlord at January 9, 2009 11:24 AM

mr. landlord,

If you were looking to rent out a store front why would you rent this location for 3k and what would you put in it.

tnx

Posted by: Santa at January 9, 2009 11:29 AM

I think most people dont realize how much of the money that comes in goes to fixed costs like rent and electric.

Posted by: slick at January 9, 2009 11:34 AM

it's insane because it's across from the hellhole that is gowanus houses.

Posted by: CGmodern at January 9, 2009 12:00 PM

$38 psf seems like a good rate? Oh, really? I guess, like 'stoner, I don't have a good grasp of retail rents. I do, however, talk to my neighbors.

When I moved to BH in 2000, $12-14 was the norm for Smith Street, which was then in the early stages of revival. Peaked around $28-30 in 2005/06. Of late it seems like it has leveled off around there or dropped back in the $25-28 range. Admittedly, my data is anecdotal from the handful of boutique/resy owners I am acquainted with.

So that's heavy foot traffic Smith Street...light traffic Hoyt (by comparison), in an area one would not think is flush with discretionary income...$38 doesn't seem like a good rate.

I've seem vacant storefronts in the $30s...and two that come to mind have been empty for more than 6 months.

But again, I am basing my perception on speaking with business owners I know...others may have other info to share.

Posted by: BoerumHill at January 9, 2009 12:15 PM

santa - pharmacy

Posted by: landlord at January 9, 2009 12:16 PM

It's insane because this stretch of Hoyt street features the an amazingly large collection of bullet proof glass partitions.

It's insane because women who freely walk the same parallel stretch of blocks on Smith St. and Court St. fear for their lives on Hoyt.

It's insane because your only customers would be the sadly underprivileged but nevertheless extremely disrespectful jobless teens and twenty somethings from across the street.

Posted by: kennethhoward at January 9, 2009 12:20 PM

Admittably I am not that familiar with that area.

Posted by: landlord at January 9, 2009 12:27 PM

A pharmacy? Do you think a tiny little pharmacy (say, 800 sq ft making a little space for a storage room) has the margins to cover $36,000 a year + insurance + utilities + capital/build-out?

Yer smokin' something landlord.

Posted by: tybur6 at January 9, 2009 12:31 PM

That stretch of Hoyt has been loosing retail for some time now. I'd have to agree, 3k would be a good (if high)price for an equitable space on Smith, for Hoyt it's ridiculous. And I live around the corner from that spot towards Bond. And landlord, a pharmacy wouldn't make it there, it's within spitting distance of Rite Aid, Eckerd, and at least one small mom and pop pharmacy.

Posted by: dans at January 9, 2009 12:32 PM

Hell hole or not - why do you assume that a location across the Street from the Gowanus Houses would be a bad retail location.

There are almost 3,000 residence in the Gowanus Houses and there are no retail stores within the project.

Despite the glass partitions etc... a store at this location has a near monopoly with the Gowanus residences and could even get some spill over business to other nearby residences. Frankly this is likely a more profitable (if significantly more dangerous) location then a similar store on Smith due the high population density and limited competition.

Posted by: fsrg at January 9, 2009 12:38 PM

Rapid Realty is out of touch with the area, for marketing this at $3,000.00 a month. During the current state that the economy is in $2,000.00 to $2,500.00 is more in sync with this location.

Posted by: Gowanus_Bklyn at January 9, 2009 12:49 PM

wine bar!

Posted by: Santa at January 9, 2009 12:49 PM

Hard to find comps...one of Smith Street (#113) just rented for a whopping $90 psf...and on the opposite end, down in the dead zone between 1st and the BQE...$29.50 psf. Some high traffic areas seem to be getting $55-63, but plenty of store fronts are $30 or less.

http://www.cpexre.com/lease.html

Interesting stuff...not something I normally look at, will be curious if this one rents out or sits empty forever.

Posted by: BoerumHill at January 9, 2009 1:37 PM

If someone thought they could make a go of it, it would have rented. It has been vacant for many months now.

There is no "near monopoly" here as there are several stores on Bond Street and down Hoyt directly across from the Gowanus Houses. The possibility of significant spillover from nearby brownstone and small apartment residents is almost nil.

Its always fun to comment, but lets have some facts to back up our assertions (or at least a modicum of familiarity with the location in question).

Posted by: very bored at work at January 9, 2009 1:58 PM

Santa, your wine bar comment is HILLARIOUS! Thank you.

Posted by: heck_of_a_job_brownie at January 9, 2009 2:03 PM

Bored - what facts do you add??

I said "near monopoly" - considering there are close to 3000 residents in the Gowanus Houses - the fact that there are a few stores (mostly on the opposite side - away from the path of to/from nearest subway) doesnt change the fact that you have limited competion and lots of residence.

And obviously you have no clue if other (non-project) residents would frequent a reopened store.

I am very familiar with the location and I also know enough about RE and business to know that the stores vacant status may have NOTHING to do with the asking rent.

Posted by: fsrg at January 9, 2009 2:36 PM

Rapid Reality. Nuff said...

Posted by: mrkknox at January 9, 2009 2:44 PM

Smith St. was not in the "early stage of rivival" in 2000. It revived agood 5 years before that.

Posted by: Boerum Hill at January 9, 2009 2:53 PM

How could you say that about Rapid Realty, mrkknox? On its website, it is listed as "Brooklyn's premier full-service Real Estate Agency."

But seriously, Rapid has some very funny negative reviews on Yelp. What kind of idiot landlord would list with them? The same idiot, I guess, who bought a commercial property across from a housing project.

Posted by: Brooklyn Chicken at January 9, 2009 3:12 PM

Brooklyn Chicken -

I walked out of their office after they told me they charge 15% broker's fee. They literally chased me down 4th Ave.

Long story short... I got them down to a one month fee, but I immediately went home and took a shower. I felt so dirty and cheap.

Posted by: mrkknox at January 9, 2009 3:42 PM

fsrg -

Here is a fact for you: The storefront wont rent because the location sucks and the rent is too high.

And apparently you "know" that non-project dwellers will patronize stores on Hoyt Street, but the opposite assertion is unsupportable?

Please share some of your RE expertise with the group and let us know why the store isnt renting.

Posted by: very bored at work at January 9, 2009 3:52 PM

Chinese take out?

Posted by: LilBitOfLuck at January 9, 2009 4:55 PM

wine bar - specializing in mad dog

Posted by: RobertMosesJr at January 9, 2009 5:50 PM

been gone all day...

since I've been asked why its insane.

Go there, see the corner. Theres your answer.

Posted by: Prodigal_Son at January 9, 2009 7:23 PM

I walked by there on daylight one Saturday, I would rather walk though Detroit at midnight. It is like Hamsperdam in the wire. Richard Price wrote "clockers" about those projects.

Posted by: actually works in finance at January 9, 2009 8:13 PM

The movie Clockers was filmed in Gowanus Houses, but the book was written about a fictitious NJ housing project. Just saying.

I walk by Gowanus Houses a lot, and it's not that dangerous during the day. But it's still a crummy place to get high rent for a business.

Posted by: Brooklyn Chicken at January 9, 2009 8:45 PM

I stand corrected Brooklyn chicken. I just finished "lush life," I've never actually read "Clockers."

Posted by: actually works in finance at January 9, 2009 9:11 PM

This was working well as a small simple deli that served both "sides" of Hoyt very well. The landlord got greedy and booted them for drinking beer in the back room. Now I'm sure the landlord has shed some tears in his own beer - the place has been vacant for a year. It can only function as a small scale deli. The family that ran it previously was wonderful. That kind of business person can not be replaced - they were not there to get rich. Now, everyone wants some easy way to pluck the $20 dollar bills out of the pockets of silly kids who are seduced by the realtor ads calling Smith St "hip & trendy "
(think Stinky & Smith & Vine) . nb. this is the 4th broker on the bldg.

Posted by: sandman at January 9, 2009 10:01 PM

How many storefronts on Hoyt are drug fronts or illegal gambling fronts? Seriously, corner groceries don't make that much money that so many can survive in that close proximity. Not saying this place was ever doing anything illegal, but pretending Hoyt Street doesn't cater to the worst elements of the Gowanus Houses is a bit delusional.

And there's no way a boutique or trendy food store ala the stuff on Smith Street would move in there. Maybe a decent slice pizzeria or a luncheonette. Or another grocery. But not much else.

Posted by: Jack at January 9, 2009 10:58 PM

what business can survive on a small corner space for 3K

Posted by: clsuxdic at August 27, 2009 2:32 PM

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