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January 7, 2009

Rejuggling of Plans for Red Hook Waterfront

American Stevedoring isn't going anywhere. That's the upshot (or one of the upshots) of a revised plan by the city's Economic Development Corporation for the Red Hook Waterfront first announced in early November and presented in detail at Monday night's Community Board 6 meeting. The new plan, which is clearly more industry-friendly than an earlier version that envisioned art galleries and restaurants, would also install Phoenix Beverages in Pier 11 and another nearby building. Brooklyn Brewery is still left out in the cold. The current plan reflects not only economic realities but political ones as well.
City Drastically Revises Red Hook Waterfront Plans [Brooklyn Eagle]
For Reinvention, Red Hook Follows Its Roots [NY Times]
Photo by themikebot on Flickr

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benson?? benson??? :-)

Posted by: bxgrl at January 7, 2009 10:03 AM

look lisa, three wild turkeys!

Posted by: sam at January 7, 2009 10:22 AM

sam, very funny. Speaking of Lisa, I'm just back from holidays and didn't see her name on any stories today. Has she been around?

Posted by: Biff Champion at January 7, 2009 10:26 AM

sam- please! those are 3 rare, endangered Fly-by-Nights of the species Developosis fedderna, of the family mediocritoridae.

They haunt the waterways looking for crumbs of dirt to eat and but are known to be omnivorous. Do not approach unless armed with contracts.

Posted by: bxgrl at January 7, 2009 10:42 AM

Hi Bxgrl;

Here I am!

I wish Lisa were here - I'd love to see her "take" on this story (red meat for me ;-).

Well, I think that Brownstoner got one point right on this issue - a political decision. However, don't be deceived by what's going on here. The city is shrewdly allowing America Stevedoring and this beverage place to use this land and derive some tax revenues from it, while the residential real estate market is in the doldrums. Neither of these businesses require big build-outs, and so they can quickly be escorted from the premises when the market does return. In the long-term, the city is never going to allow this prime, waterfront-view land to be used on these low-value-added businesses.

It is a stretch to call either of these businesses "industrial", in comparison to a true industrial use like a shipyard or the factories that used to line the Red Hook waterfront. It is especially laughable to call the Phoenix Beverage warehouse an "industrial" use.

Just think about it. Phoenix will build a boxy, corrugated-steel structure in the middle of a large parking lot, and it will probably employ about 25 people who will stock soda cans mounted on pallets. The social engineers will all nod their head in approval "See, a working waterfront", even though this facility and business has no relationship to the waterfront whatsoever. Conversely, if someone like Ikea, or - GOD FORBID - someone like Costco builds a boxy, corrugated-steel structure in the middle of a large parking lot that will employ about 50 people who will stock pallet-loads of various items, the social engineers will mount the ramparts and holler "They're taking away the working waterfront!!!!!!!!".

Amusing??? Totally.

Posted by: benson at January 7, 2009 12:32 PM

omg- I agreed with everything you just said. Oh, g-d!!! What's happening to me???!!!!

Posted by: bxgrl at January 7, 2009 1:07 PM

benson - not so. Yes, Phoenix is more accurately descirbed as warehouse/distribution than as manufacturing, but it's still an industrial use. The definition of "industrial" includes manufacturing, warehouse, distribution and construction. While manufacturing uses certianly would be the preferred type of "industrial" use from an economci impact point of view, it's also important to have a wide variety of entry-level jobs that don't require higher education. We can't just have retail jobs for all of the immigrants and poorly educated people who form the backbone of this city.

Also, the real benefit of the phoenix project (if you're skeptical about the job numbers) is the removal of thousands of truck trips over the GW bridge and associated highways.

Posted by: Make My Heights the P Heights at January 7, 2009 2:56 PM

MMHTPH;

I'm not arguing against the Phoenix project, at least from an economic POV. I agree that the jobs created are worthwhile.

My argument is against the social engineers who rally for a "working waterfront" out of some type of nostalgic hankering for Brooklyn's waterfront to return to its golden industrial past, which is never going to happen. They are so enamored of this idea that they will accept anything (like the Phoenix watrehouse), even when it has nothing to do with the waterfront, and when, from an aesthetic POV, it is the same as a Costco.

The Phoenix warehouse does not need to be located in that waterfront. It could just as easily be located somewhere is the Canarsie or Sunset Park distribution districts.

Posted by: benson at January 7, 2009 3:33 PM

"My argument is against the social engineers who rally for a "working waterfront" out of some type of nostalgic hankering for Brooklyn's waterfront to return to its golden industrial past,"

Awwwwww- and here I thought we had detente. Well, just to clarify, I am not nostalgic for a return to a golden past (which was probably more like brass or pewter really). I just think that as a matter of economics and practicality, we need jobs just as much a we need residences.It's never going to be like it was, but it seems the last few years all the city has concentrated on was building residences, and creating more and more upscaled neighborhoods at the cost of businesses and the working class. Sometimes it felt like those making less than 100,00 a year had no right to live here anymore.

Posted by: bxgrl at January 7, 2009 4:36 PM

Actually, Phoenix beverage does need to be located there. 90% of Phoenix Bev's business is imported beer which comes over on cargo ships and will be offloaded right into their warehouse in Red Hook. They currently offload in Jersey which is why Make My Height P Heights correctly notes that the real boon to New York is the removal of thousands of truck trips.

Also, The City is not shrewdly allowing anything. It is the very powerful longshoreman's union the put the kibosh on the cities previous plans to get rid of American Stevedoring and i'm sure it is the same powerful faction that has brought in more longshoreman jobs by bringing in Phoenix Beverage.

However, something that Brownstoner did not report on is that the Red Hook community is very much against the city bringing in Phoenix Beverage, because they are afraid that their streets will be littered with even more trucks. They think they have already taken on enough new pollution with the cruise ships and Ikea buses and traffic. Also, Tom Fox, owner of the Water Taxi, who wants to move his fleet to the Atlantic Basin, and who has been a part of the Red Hook community for many years has put forth a much more community friendly proposal that the city turned down. FYI, Tom Foxes workers are not union.

Posted by: Left Hook at January 7, 2009 4:58 PM

oops- make that 100,000

Posted by: bxgrl at January 7, 2009 4:58 PM

Left Hook;

I'm somewhat suspicious of your post, for several reasons:

-we live in the 21st century, not the 19th. Phoenix is a small-to-mid-size distributor for the NY metro area. In these days of huge containerships and big ports like Newark and Elizabeth, you are not going to see a ship come to Pier 11 just to drop off some containers of Heineken for Phoenix. Moreover, just the concept of warehouses having to be near their port is outdated. Do you see warehouses immediately adjacent to Port Newark? No, most distribution warehouses are along exit 11 on the Turnpike, about 30 miles from Port Newark. Please, give me a break.

-The Longshoremen's union is powerful? In NYC in 2009? Are you for real? What are there, about 100 people left in NYC who work in the longshoremen's union? Yes, this union is so powerful that they gave up their real estate and facilities on Court St. Again, you seem to be in a time warp. Fifty years ago, the longshormen's union WAS powerful. Today?

-You seem to have some ax to grind with the longshoremen's union, in that you tout a company that has non-union labor, and imply that this is the reason they were excluded.

Finally, I would appreicate that you use your posts to speak for yourself. I am always suspicious of people who speak for "the comminity", in the singular. For your information, Red Hook is not occupied by a tribe, and you are not their spokesperson.

Posted by: benson at January 7, 2009 9:03 PM

Benson,
Perhaps you should do a little research on this before you say things about which you might later feel silly.

Here are a couple of articles to start you off. Not the best reporting but a fairly accurate representation of the CB6 meeting and what led up to it.

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/31/48/31_48_mm_pier_11.html

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/32/1/32_1_mm_piers.html

Posted by: Left Hook at January 7, 2009 9:24 PM

Left Hook;

And exactly what do you think these articles show? I read both of them, and I stand by my statements above.

I would like to know if you have an interest in this matter.

Posted by: benson at January 7, 2009 10:08 PM

I find it hard to believe that you read these articles and you still don't believe that their imported beers will be shipped directly into the container port. In fact, it will be written into the contract with the city that Phoenix beverage must ship all of their imported beer into this port.
It is also mentioned in both articles that the EDC has faced staunch opposition from members of the Red Hook community.

My only interest in this is as a resident of Brooklyn. I do not live in Red Hook, but am fond of Red Hook and would like to see it move more in the direction of a mix use area. I believe that Phoenix Beverages is another push towards the industrial in Red Hook. And although the move does reduce the overall carbon footprint by relieving the roads of the truck trips from Port Elizabeth to the their current warehouse in LIC it also will flood Brooklyn highways and streets with hundreds of more delivery trucks.

Posted by: Left Hook at January 7, 2009 11:25 PM

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January 7, 2009

Rejuggling of Plans for Red Hook Waterfront

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