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January 26, 2009

Parts of Cobble Hill and Carroll Gardens Vulnerable

becosmi-012609.jpgEvidently there's a new neighborhood name out there—BECOSMI, as in Between Court and Smith. What's notable about the area, points out Casa Cara, is that it's not protected by landmarks law. More specifically, there are a number of notable structures on the blocks between State and Butler that could, at any time, be torn down by a developer. Some residents are currently working to landmark the "orphaned blocks."




Posted by Brownstoner at 11:13 AM | Comments (19)
Categories: Landmark

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All these acronyms...AGGH! Before you know it no one will know what to call anything. The brokers who make up these names can kiss "THEFAPOAMA" - The Fattest Part of My Ass!

Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at January 26, 2009 11:19 AM

I still like BoCoCaNo.

cobblehiller????

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 26, 2009 11:22 AM

She does have a point, regarding the architecture there. There are some great buildings in that area.

I like her blog, too. I'll have to check it out when I have some time. I did browse around a bit, and she has some wonderful photographs, and interesting brownstone tidbits.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at January 26, 2009 11:28 AM

lol snappy good one. im going to start calling my apt building the FiFi (first and first) section of Paslo. yes. yes i will!

*r*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at January 26, 2009 11:28 AM

Sanppy....that was great!

Posted by: bayridgegirl at January 26, 2009 11:31 AM

I do not really understand this posting. While it is true that those blocks have no landmark protection, neither does 95% of the rest of Carroll Gardens. There are only two blocks that have landmark protection: President and Carroll Streets between Smith and Hoyt -that's it!
Everything else is up for grabs.
A slow real estate cycle is the ideal time to get the ball rolling on historic distrits designation. The threat may not be iminent, but when the boom times return, it will be too late to save the best historic blocks from demolition and disfiguring additions. So far the traditional Italian-American community has been able to hold on to the historic character of the neighborhood, but that may not last forever especially if the stratospheric increase in land values takes off again after the recession runs its course.

Posted by: sam at January 26, 2009 11:31 AM

I still like BoCoCaNo.

cobblehiller????

I'm with you Snappy! You're willfully baiting me DIBS! Just say no to this BoCoCa caca.

Posted by: cobblehiller at January 26, 2009 11:42 AM

Sam, when the recession runs it's course we will be dealing with run away inflation which will limit growth on the upside. I am a realist and suggest everyone to expect a 10-15% decline in home values before we flatten out as a market. That flat market will result in a 10 year drag until the next bull real estate market.

Posted by: commonsense at January 26, 2009 11:48 AM

These broker-created acronyms are idiotic.
My father grew up in East Harlem, not SpaHa...
I went to school in Cobble Hill, not BoCoCa...

Bothers the f outta me these names. F'in brokers (full disclosure - I was a broker for a while).

And what's with this block by block nonesense? How about landmarking the entire neighborhood? Don't tell me it can't be done, Brooklyn Heights is a landmark neighborhood and there are plenty of non-landmark buildings.

The push should be to landmark all of Cobble Hill and Carroll Gardens and the recent, crappy, developments/buildins will be left as a reminder of what happens before landmarks (as they are in the Heights) and what to avoid on other parts of the city.

rant over...

Posted by: christopher at January 26, 2009 11:54 AM

Many of the names we are familiar with were more or less made up: Cobble Hill, Boerum Hill, DUMBO, Fulton Ferry,
Windsor Terrace.
There was always a Brooklyn Heights, a Clinton Hill, and a Park Slope, "the Heights, the Hill and the Slope" as old timers referred to the affluent parts of Brooklyn.
I don't know how old a name Carroll Gardens is. That whole area was known as South Brooklyn and Gowanus. Having said this, I do prefer names like "Cobble Hill" to acronyms, which can get silly.
I think DUMBO was originally just a joke dreampt up by locals who wanted to scare people away with a stupid name for their neighborhood (who would want to live in "dumbo"?) But as it turned out, it had the opposite effect. People loved the sound of dumbo.

Posted by: sam at January 26, 2009 12:11 PM

christopher: 90% of Cobble Hill is landmarked. It's only the area around the LICH that isn't.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/downloads/pdf/maps/cobble_hill.pdf

Posted by: cobblehiller at January 26, 2009 12:25 PM

cobbhiller, like I said "all" of it should be landmarked ;)

(I was referencing Carroll Gardens mostly, Cobble Hill got mentioned as a tangent from my general rant on BoCoCa)

Posted by: christopher at January 26, 2009 12:28 PM

My comment is assuming that you're talking about the 'original' CH, and not the 'orphaned' blocks. My vote is that the block of Degraw with those cool little verandas on the front should definitely be landmarked.

chris: I'm not so sure that I'd want the newer parts of LICH landmarked. I may be wrong, but I think the old Nursing School is landmarked. I should check that.

Did you go to PS 29?

Posted by: cobblehiller at January 26, 2009 12:32 PM

cobblehiller,
Yes, I did go to PS 29. I went to JHS 142 for middle school, at the end of Henry St. Back then it was grades 7-9, now it's a bunch of different schools with an elementary school in it.

As for landmarking, I agree, LICH doesn't need to be landmarked I just think it's tough to do block by block when many neighborhoods have multiple blocks that are worthy. And I think if you were to say the entire neighborhood was landmarked, if someone wanted to tear down LICH they would then have to put something up that fits with the landmarking.

That's sort of where I'm at, landmark whole neighborhoods to prevent crass development and to ensure that future development will revert back to the style of the neighborhood as a whole.

Posted by: christopher at January 26, 2009 1:01 PM

Time to landmark the whole area. Let's keep What we have left intact.

Posted by: sebb at January 26, 2009 1:34 PM

True what Sam says about Carroll Gardens -- only a couple of blocks have landmark protection. Shocking, isn't it? You'd think the whole neighborhood would easily qualify.
I think individual buildings can be landmarked (if they are very important architecturally), but Historic Districts have to be contiguous, which is why some of them are so oddly shaped - they can't be marred by anything un-historic. Carroll Gardens was named in the 1960s, yes, for real-estate purposes. Before that it was called South Brooklyn or even Red Hook.
Montrose, thanks for your kind words about my old-house blog, http://casacara.wordpress.com. My orbit is Brooklyn/Philadelphia/Hudson Valley/North Fork, but my base is Brooklyn. I lived in Cobble Hill for 20 years and now live in Boerum Hill, so there will always be a huge dose of Brooklyn content.

Posted by: casacara at January 26, 2009 3:48 PM

By the way, the photo above is of one of the three houses on Sackett between Court and Smith that have a New Orleans look. One of them has a recently constructed rooftop addition.

My impression is that Carroll Gardens residents did not pursue landmarking when their Cobble Hill neighbors did because they did not want anyone telling them what to do with their property (or, at least, that was the sentiment from most.) The mood has changed. But you still can't just "landmark the entire neighborhood". That would really mess up the chance to convince the Landmarks Preservation Commission to take you seriously. The buildings can't be just old, they have to have some architectural significance. Overreaching and including too big an area could backfire.

Downzoning is a different story.

Posted by: Carol Gardens at January 26, 2009 4:43 PM

BOCARATON, Anyone?!

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at January 26, 2009 6:18 PM

My husband and I have been calling the Union St. corridor betweeen Smith St. and Fifth Ave. "Smi-Fi" (rhymes with Wi Fi).

Posted by: Stonergut at January 26, 2009 7:29 PM

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