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January 20, 2009
Open Thread
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does anyone else think that politics should be left out of the office? i have to set up a tv and find an antennae for everyone to watch the inauguration(sp?). people should stay at home or tape it and we shouldnt be forced to watch it in an office. grrr. im protesting by taking my lunch break during it.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at January 20, 2009 9:20 AM
We have similar issues here rob. Most of us want to watch it and there's one guy who just can't let go of Bush. We're having a celebratory lunch too. Not sure yet what we are going to order.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 9:22 AM
The election was interesting, tense, fun. The inauguration...meeeh. Just a broadway show.
Posted by: dittoburg at January 20, 2009 9:25 AM
Freedom Fries with Apple Pie for dessert.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at January 20, 2009 9:27 AM
I'm leaning more towards fried chicken with mac and cheese.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 9:30 AM
"The election was interesting, tense, fun. The inauguration...meeeh. Just a broadway show."
A broadway show that cost $170MM to produce!
Posted by: Biff Champion at January 20, 2009 9:34 AM
$170 MM??? That's nothing these days.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 9:36 AM
"$170 MM??? That's nothing these days."
What do you mean? That's like a full day's worth of losses at BofA/Merrill.
Posted by: Biff Champion at January 20, 2009 9:38 AM
My company is setting up TV's in the cafeteria for everyone to watch (this did not happen in 2001 or 2005). I'm certainly planning to see it.
Generally I do like politics to stay out of the office, but this is more civics than politics.
I think this will get put into the history books along with Washington, Adams, Lincoln, and FDR as the most important inaugurations in this country's history.
Best wishes to our new president. May he guide us better than the last one.
Posted by: northsloperenter at January 20, 2009 9:38 AM
Its ok, they're printing more $50 bills as we speak.
Posted by: dittoburg at January 20, 2009 9:38 AM
I dunno ditto, I'm pretty psyched to watch it become official!
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 9:39 AM
northsloperenter, I agree with everything you said. It's like when classes were allowed to watch the first space landing, although I think this is even more historic.
Posted by: Biff Champion at January 20, 2009 9:40 AM
There was a guy on the train this morning with a knit hat and "OBAMA" across the front in bling. All I could think of was that I never saw any Asshats wearing a "BUSH" hat when he was elected :)
Who's the big Bush supporter here, BHO???
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 9:41 AM
okay what really makes it more important than others? i just don't see it. sorry. making a big deal about someone's race IS racist in an of itself.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at January 20, 2009 9:43 AM
cobblehiller, can you a play by play of it for us poor shlubs that had to TiVo it and can't watch it live?
Posted by: Biff Champion at January 20, 2009 9:44 AM
Rob, a month or so ago, Montrose gave a very moving explanation of what makes this very special. I wish I could find it easily. Much like everything she comments on, it was a much more eloquent statement than anything I could ever hope to post!
Posted by: Biff Champion at January 20, 2009 9:47 AM
no no. it is special. im just being a butt munch this morning or something. ahhaha.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at January 20, 2009 9:50 AM
"okay what really makes it more important than others? i just don't see it. sorry. making a big deal about someone's race IS racist in an of itself.
*rob*"
Rob, its a big deal because less than 200 years ago if you wanted to BUY a black person you could do so. Now a black person is president.
Are you for real?
Posted by: Prodigal_Son at January 20, 2009 9:54 AM
It would be my pleasure Biff.
The Obama's are arriving at the White House, to join the Bushes for the drive over to the Capital. The Biden's have arrived as well. Bush will come out to greet them. Then they'll have coffee in the Blue Room.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 9:55 AM
"making a big deal about someone's race IS racist in an of itself."
Candidate for the Most Asinine Comment of the Day, considering the circumstances. If you cannot see why Obama's election is historic, you're being wilfully obtuse.
Posted by: cmu at January 20, 2009 9:58 AM
Amen, northsloperenter.
I may not be able to fully cover this for you if I start crying - as I am wont to do.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 10:03 AM
I still hold the vision in my mind that Montrose Morris gave us of when she went into the booth to vote for Obama and brought along a picture of her mother, who was no longer alive, to ""show her" that she was actually voting for a black man for President of the United States.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 10:03 AM
CNN is saying that there may be as many as two million people there! I wonder if What went after all.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 10:04 AM
"making a big deal about someone's race IS racist in an of itself."
No it isn't.
If you really don't get it, read this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-fifths_compromise
and consider who will be responsible for preserving, protecting, and defending the Constitution by this afternoon.
Posted by: northsloperenter at January 20, 2009 10:05 AM
cobblehiller, I just saw some pics on cnn.com. How about the number Michelle's wearing! That is attention getting. Between this and the number she wore during the victory speech, I'm admiring her fashion statements. I wonder if there's some significance to the colors. Wow, this is exciting!
DIBS, that's the exact post to which I was referring. Where's BRG when we need her expert post-finding skills?
Posted by: Biff Champion at January 20, 2009 10:05 AM
Eh... I don't want to bust anyone's bubble but..
The whole Banking sector is in Red Alert! Bank of America is having an aneurysm!
Yep! Obama will have to manage the collapse of the Mutant Asset Bubble, good luck with that!
The What (What is the comps in Bed Stuy like? LMMFAO!)
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at January 20, 2009 10:07 AM
I suppose the what must have an iphone or something.
Posted by: dittoburg at January 20, 2009 10:10 AM
Well, I'm really sorry you see it that way, Rob.I know its symbolic, its political, its expensive- but I am watching every minute. Its historic- did any of us ever think we would see a Black man elected President? And have we ever seen the country so ready to say goodbye to the outgoing one? I's toss a shoe but need all of 'em at the moment.
What I always find so magnificent is that every 4 years we participate in this historic, peaceful process of transition and we do so with the assumption that this is what we picked for the next four years. There are no mid term re-elections, or replacing personnel, or the military taking power or the President anointing himself King (despite the best efforts of the Bush administration.) We don't appreciate nearly enough the whole process of how we govern and are governed. Every 4 years the same shivers run up and down my spine.
I'm not watching a rock star take offce today. I'm watching the renewal of tradition, and the continuation of history. I played my one vote part in it and so did you all. this election was seismic- I'm looking at shots of the Mall. It's unbelieveable. It isn't just who is the next President, it's what we're saying as a country. I'm sure MM will say it much better than I can but today is a magnificent day and I'm going to watch every minute of it that I can.
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 10:11 AM
Fiat bought 35% of Chrysler. What is the world coming to if we have to rely on an Italian auto company to bail out Chrysler????? Mama mia.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 10:11 AM
"I don't want to bust anyone's bubble"
ORLY?
Posted by: northsloperenter at January 20, 2009 10:13 AM
Next, the Bushes and the Obamas and the Bidens will ride over to the Capital for the ceremony.
Did anyone see John Lewis speak on CNN this morning? It's so amazing to hear him talk about his experience as someone that directly participated in the Civil Rights movement to the degree that he did. At one point he said he thought he might have an out of body experience today.
I love Michelle's outfits/style - especially the camel and black coat/skirt outfit she work this weekend. I want that outfit! This woman is a class act!
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 10:15 AM
"Fiat bought 35% of Chrysler. What is the world coming to if we have to rely on an Italian auto company to bail out Chrysler????? Mama mia."
No Dave Fiat did not "Bought" anything, it's just stakes on paper so Fiat can build cars over here.
The What
someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: Return of The What at January 20, 2009 10:15 AM
DIBS, instead of "bought" it should be "was given"!
Posted by: the chicken at January 20, 2009 10:16 AM
"It isn't just who is the next President, it's what we're saying as a country. I'm sure MM will say it much better than I can but today is a magnificent day and I'm going to watch every minute of it that I can."
Ditto bxgrl! I'm soaking it up as best I can. I want to inhale it!
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 10:16 AM
Excellent analysis What. Sorry, my mistake. Chrysler just "gave them" the 35% stake. Fool. No story to cut and paste?
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 10:18 AM
"Every 4 years the same shivers run up and down my spine."
bxgrl, I had shivers run up and down my spine during W's inauguration in 2000 and much moreso in 2004, but for very different reasons!!
Posted by: Biff Champion at January 20, 2009 10:18 AM
Jeeze, AlItalia will be taking of American airways next.
Posted by: dittoburg at January 20, 2009 10:22 AM
Here it is....
Thanks to self employment, one of the few joys left in that scary field these days, I waited and voted at 11:30. My polling place, at NY Ave, between Atlantic and Herkimer, in Bed Stuy, was busy, but not overcrowded. There were lines in the auditorium, but not trailing outside. There was a constant stream of people coming in, it was the most activity I've ever seen there in the 7 years I've voted there. My ED, the 26th, had no line, so voting took only minutes. I went with a friend, and spent the time while she was voting to look at the people. A mixture of everyone, and I was especially touched by older people voting.
I brought a photo of my mother, who died in 1985, with me. I admit, I took it out, and showed her Obama's name on the ballot. I was a child under 10 years of age during the height of the Civil Rights Movement. I remember the images of people having dogs let loose on them, being fire hosed and beaten, and the four little girls who died in Mongomery, as well as MLK, the bus boycott, lunch counter protests, the killings of Goodwin, Cheney and Schwerner. Although I was far from all of that, either in NYC, or upstate, where we were one of only four black families in town, I grew up with a palpable fear of white people with Southern accents, a feeling I did not lose until going to college, and after. My parents told my brother and myself of Jim Crow experiences from their lives, and raised us to extremely high standards of academic and social excellence because they knew that we would have to be better to be even considered on the same level as our peers. Of course we didn’t understand at the time, but the lessons learned have made us the people we are today.
I looked at the senior citizens at the voting booth, some of whom were tearing up, and I had to tear up as well. The results of this election mean more to some of us than just the return of the Democratic party, or even the goals of Obama as a politician. As someone who has been a veritable raisin in the cream of wheat in most of my academic, social and professional endeavors, and a “first” in a few of them, I can’t express the pride in seeing the entire WORLD cheering this man on. I know he’s not perfect, and I know he will not be able to change this country overnight, and I know he’s going to make mistakes, and I’m not going to agree with some of his choices. I also am well aware that his election does not mean the end of racism in this country. In fact, we are going to see more of the ugly side of this country, as any misstep Obama makes will be seen in some eyes as the “fault” of his racial makeup. But to go into that voting booth and pull the lever for this man has filled me with hope for this country. The next few years are not going to be easy for anyone, we are on the cusp of great change in the world. We can’t keep doing what we have been doing, environmentally, health-wise, economically, or politically. The rest of the world is not bowing down to us because we are America anymore. But I’m praying, literally, that Barack Obama wins, first of all, and goes on to become the greatest president of our age. My mother, an educator and teacher to the end, would have been very, very proud.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 4, 2008 1:31 PM in response to Long Lines, Everywhere
Thank you MM for all of your posts. Yours are the most informative, though provoking and rational on this blog.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 10:26 AM
They're talking about the roles of the Supreme Court Justices. Justices O'Conner [retired] and Thomas just arrived. Justice Roberts will perform the swearing in of Obama, and Justice Stevens will perform the swearing in of Biden.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 10:27 AM
Thank you DIBS, that was/is the most awesome post.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 10:29 AM
'Where's BRG when we need her expert post-finding skills?'
DIBS!!!!! You beat me to it. I just finished copying it and was about to post it. Why you, Biff referenced my skills!!!
Here's the link, if anyone wants to read others comments.
http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2008/11/long_lines_ever.php
Posted by: bayridgegirl at January 20, 2009 10:30 AM
rob- not all that many years ago when I was in an interracial marriage, my ex and I would be walking down the street together and someone wold invariably drive by and scream out the window "n**ger! and N**ger-lover! Other variations included the words slut and whore.
My friends brother was refused a job because of his skin color (and the company had been stupid enough to write the remark on his application.)
Another friend was treated like a servant by a bride who didn't understand the this woman went to Yale on a scholarship and had an IQ at least 50 times higher than hers.
I was a kid when I saw a Black man thrown out of a Howard Johnson's in New Jersey bcause he was Black. I saw a young boy beaten up by older white kids in the neighborhood where I grew up.
A friend in high school moved to NYC because they woke up one night to find a cross burning on their lawn.
Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, Little Rock, Emmett Till, Medgar Evers, Malcolm X, Nat Turner, Dred Scott, the Underground railroad....just those few names don't ever begin to cover the scope and depth of the change that hapens today. I have to say if you don't get what this inaugeration is about, you're really losing out.
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 10:33 AM
The Bushes and the Obamas will be leaving the White House in a few minutes for the drive over to the Capitol for the ceremony!!
We're almost there people!
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 10:35 AM
44 will be no different than those before him, nor will he be different than those to come after. Politics is politics and it has already been shown 44 is more of the same.
Every 4 years we elect a president. This is no different. If you look at 44 based on platforms, appointments, etc, he is no different and nothing special.
I just hope this rabid fandom surrounding him and his election does not cloud people's judgment when he needs to be held accountable for mistakes and missteps he is undoubtedly going to make starting this afternoon (based on the fact that, against popular opinion, he is not infallible and every president ever has made mistakes - so too will he and he must be held to the fire just as those before him have, regardless of historical implications).
Just my .02
Posted by: christopher at January 20, 2009 10:40 AM
Ok, I can't believe I'm interrupting this monumental chapter in history with a personal issue, but I've never posted a non-party related item in the Forum and I just did. I need any advice you insightful, resourceful folks can provide!
Posted by: Biff Champion at January 20, 2009 10:42 AM
Rob, if I remember correctly, you are thirty years old. The year you were born, people were talking about the Civil Rights movement as over, as MLK was over 10 years in his grave, the Black Panthers were passé, and their leaders in prison, or becoming Republicans, and black people were beginning to be sprinkled into the lives of America on television and movies, so all was well. The women’s movement was still seen as only an excuse for women to have pre and extra-marital sex, with a legal abortion to take care of mistakes. The glass ceiling of employment and cultural inequality of women was still a fight to be fought. The gay rights movement was still in its infancy. No one who wanted to climb the corporate ladder, or lead a life in the public eye dared come out of the closet, and the ghastly specter of AIDS was just beginning to simmer in the veins of the multitudes of people who would all be dead in the next fifteen years.
I read a book by a Christian apologist who said something to the effect that Christ needs to come back every thirty or so years and be crucified again, because people just don’t remember the pain, the sacrifice and the true significance of the event if they don’t see it, if it is not fresh and new again. Whether one is religious or not, that is not the point or importance here. We, as human beings, are not prone to great remembrances. We leave that to professionals – historians. As we grow up, we complain of learning history, of memorizing the deeds of dead people, and paying too much attention to the past. We sacrifice the monuments and treasures of our past to the rubbish heap, in our fervent quest for the new, always the new.
Today is important. Today is important, because we are emerging from the tunnel of 8 years of failed policies, death and destruction of Biblical proportions, and the squandering of international regard and good will. We are in the middle of an economic overturning, a global shift in how we use and regard the environment, and an ever growing series endless, stupid wars, with the threat of pandemic disease and poverty overwhelming much of the world.
Into this maelstrom, we are inserting our first African-American president, a man who came from nowhere to win the election, going against the power elite, the well known names, and the conventional wisdom that a black man could not be elected in 2008. Today is important, because he is the proof that all of those people who denied us education, employment, transportation, shelter, and even life were wrong. For every person lynched in the South, denied equal education or a commensurate job in the North, a house in a good neighborhood anywhere, and the ability to go as high as one can, because one has the brains, the ingenuity, the commitment to rise above their allotted “station”, the inauguration is important. For the first chance in years for this country to go down the path we have strived to be on since the Framers, this inauguration is important.
Obama is not perfect. He will make mistakes, he is only human, and surrounded by other humans, and all of us have our baggage, our issues, our pet projects, our prejudices and pre-suppositions. For the first time in a very long time, we have hope. That is the most important thing he brings us. Not his race, his religious beliefs, or his policies. At this time and place, he makes us proud to be American, glad to be alive in this time and place, and eager to see what’s next. I’m going to be glued to the screen, with tissues.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at January 20, 2009 10:44 AM
The former presidents and first ladies are arriving.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 10:44 AM
Michelle Obama and Laura Bush just left the White House.
Biden and Cheney will drive over together - leaving now.
Then Obama and Bush will drive over together - leaving in a moment. Here they come down the hallway to the front door of the White House to leave.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 10:48 AM
bxgrl Do you think anything has changed? This blog is an example of Covert Race/Class warfare! Just Dusted-up in a Brownstone Blog, give me a break!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: Return of The What at January 20, 2009 10:48 AM
er...blush, blush- I meant "inauguration".
christopher- Sounds like you voted for McCain
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 10:48 AM
Excellent analysis What. Sorry, my mistake. Chrysler just "gave them" the 35% stake. Fool. No story to cut and paste?
Here Fool!
Fiat to Take 35% Chrysler Stake, Form Global Alliance (Update2)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=afGwLZVmDEsA&refer=home
Jan. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Fiat SpA, Italy’s largest carmaker, agreed to take a 35 percent stake in Chrysler LLC to gain a foothold in the world’s biggest auto market and give the U.S. company access to its small-car technology
Fool....
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at January 20, 2009 10:52 AM
OK, so I'll be the sourpuss in the group.
I get what Montrose wrote. I get what Bxgrl wrote, in terms of the historic importance to this nation of electing our first African-America president. As Bxgrl wrote, the event is a tribute to many people,some of which she lists: "Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, Little Rock, Emmett Till, Medgar Evers, Malcolm X, Nat Turner, Dred Scott, the Underground railroad".
Having said all that, I am still troubled by Obama himself, and this cult of personality he has built around himself. WHAT does the man stand for?? Believe me, I've listened to about 10 of his major speeches over the past 4 months, and I always come out of them asking myself: what is he proposing, other than the word "change", which, as near as I can tell, he thinks is his ability to be pragmatic and see all sides in the situation.
As we speak, Congress is preparing a $850 BILLION dollar spending bill that will raise our national debt, in one act, by 10%. Where is the press on this? Who is examining the fine details of this bill, to make sure that our money is being well spent? I wish that someone would explain to me how expanding the number of Pell grants by something like $20 BILLION dollars will "stimulate" the economy? Where is Obama on all this? If the damn press would stop their Paris Hilton adulation of the guy, and be skeptical of him like they should be of all politicians, maybe we'd have a democracy in action.
Lest you think I am just some sourpuss, I call your attention to the fact that serious thinkers ranging from Paul Kennedy (a serious liberal) to Fauod Ajami have made the same points. I would advise everyone to read Kennedy's piece in the Wall Street Journal of 3 days ago. He openly worries that Obama and the congress are rushing us into an economic debacle with this "stimulus" bill, and what is even more frightening to him is the fact that there is so little debate on the matter.
Unless I see Obama make moves to transfer his popularity into making the people take politics seriously, I will not be impressed by him. In my mind, so far all he is doing is standing on the shoulders of other people.
Posted by: benson at January 20, 2009 10:54 AM
I'm right there with you MM. Thank you for this post.
[Darn it! I was trying not to cry yet!]
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 10:57 AM
cobblehiller, thanks for the updates. All I can watch in my office is cnbc :-( The crowd is absolutely astonishing based on the cnn.com pics.
Montrose, your post is so moving and really gives those of us who weren't born into the same prejudices as others incredible insight into what this means to those who were.
Posted by: Biff Champion at January 20, 2009 10:57 AM
For all you schlubs at work...you can watch it live on-line...hope you brought your head sets.
Once again Montrose, you knock us out with your posts.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at January 20, 2009 10:57 AM
The movie stars are arriving: Was that Alec Baldwin? Stephen Spielberg, John Cusack...
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 11:00 AM
They haven't agreed on a price yet JACKASS.
Why do I continue to engage this loon?????
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 11:00 AM
The Obamas, Bushes, Bidens and Cheneys have arrived.
[Michelle is wearing an Elizabeth Toldeo outfit.]
Introducing Justice Roberts and the other Justices.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 11:03 AM
benson:
For responsible financial regulation where needed
For increasing infrastructure spending
For less of the anything-goes policies
For less reliance on foreign oil, via "green" policies and alternate/clean energies
Not politicizing the justice department
Ending our ridiculous policy against birth control in aid packages
Closing Guantanamo
Ending our torture policy
Ending the Iraq war in an expedient way
Pursuing Bin Laden in Afghanistan
Stimulus package
Reaching out to Repubs among others
etc etc
These are ALL concrete steps, small and large proposed and in some cases, taken.
What more do you want? He's not yet president, for crissakes. You sound like the people who said during even the later parts of the election "I don't know who Obama is" and were still "undecided". What do y'all expect, tea and sympathy with the candidate/president before you "know" who he is?
Posted by: cmu at January 20, 2009 11:04 AM
"death and destruction of Biblical proportions"
Oh come on Montrose!!!! What in the world are you talking about with this statement????? Are you serious with this statement????
In one day of battle of WWII, in a single battle, Iwo Jima, we lost more men then we have lost in Iraq and Afghanistan to date. Frankly, as the son of a WWII vet,I take exception to your statement.
Last I checked,the unemployment rate is on the order of something like 7.5%. In the last deep recession in 1980, the unemployment rate rose to above 10%. During the Great Depression, the unemployment rate went up to 25%.
This just reinforces the point I made above. Can folks take politics seriously, or are we just going to sit back and make myths and legends? I'm starting to feel like I'm watching "American Idol", not a democracy in action.
I'm still reeling from this statement.
Posted by: benson at January 20, 2009 11:04 AM
Benson, can you take it down a notch, please, and let those of us that are really enjoying and sitting in awe of our democracy in action take it in?
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 11:07 AM
What a day! Will be watching and will post more thoughts later. Benson, you will have to wait and see whether or not Obama the president puts his tremendous popularity to good use. I hope he does obviously and I bet you hope he does too. Wouldn't it be better to be wrong in this case? Thanks though for taking a tough assignment (being the Obama doubter on a board like this) without being an asshole.
Posted by: wasder at January 20, 2009 11:07 AM
You tell me, What. It wasn't the white guy who got elected. do I think think have changed? In all honesty, yes. Not as much as they should have. There will always be a$$holes when it comes to race. But I also think there has beeen a seismic shift in this country and Obama is both the reason and the result.
People don't always recognize racism for what it is- at least, most of the white people I know (ncluding family) sometimes don't recognize how ingrained and subtle it can be. On the other hand more are willing to admit it and it is talked about more openly. Especially on Brownstoner.
I suspect the dialogue itself is even more important because a few years ago there was no real dialogue about racism. But I think even though personal racism may not have changed much, the nature of racism in this country has - and now we'll have to wait and see how. It feels like the most divisive, most shameful institution this country or the world has ever known ironically and strangely may be what ultimately unites us.
I hope it does, What. We need it to. We all need each other- and I have to go downstairs and get tissues from the LL. Later, everyone. It's a new day.
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 11:08 AM
Al Gore and Tipper have arrived. Mondales are there as well.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 11:09 AM
"Frankly, as the son of a WWII vet,I take exception to your statement."
Are the sacrifices of the father visited on the son?
I guess the deaths of over 100,000 Iraqis don't count, after all, they are the Others.
Posted by: cmu at January 20, 2009 11:09 AM
Eric Holder and Shinseki have arrived along with other cabinet members.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 11:10 AM
CMU;
I'm sorry to say, but your post reinforces my point. Half of those things you list are platitudes, not policies.
Just to take one example:
"For responsible financial regulation where needed"
What the heck does this mean, other than being a platitude? He has not yet made a single statement of POLICY with regard to financial regulation. We are in the process of passing $850 Billion dollars of spending, with no clear guiding principle, other than the congress making sure that there's "something for everyone".
Enjoy "American Idol".
Posted by: benson at January 20, 2009 11:10 AM
benson- Obama did not build a personality cult. We built it around him because we are so hungry, so thirsty for change.
And for someone who has a real vision of what we can and should be. Sorry you odn't get it. Just look at the crowds, think they are making a point you're missing.
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 11:11 AM
Having said all that, I am still troubled by Obama himself, and this cult of personality he has built around himself. WHAT does the man stand for?? Believe me, I've listened to about 10 of his major speeches over the past 4 months, and I always come out of them asking myself: what is he proposing, other than the word "change", which, as near as I can tell, he thinks is his ability to be pragmatic and see all sides in the situation.
As we speak, Congress is preparing a $850 BILLION dollar spending bill that will raise our national debt, in one act, by 10%. Where is the press on this? Who is examining the fine details of this bill, to make sure that our money is being well spent? I wish that someone would explain to me how expanding the number of Pell grants by something like $20 BILLION dollars will "stimulate" the economy? Where is Obama on all this?
Ding Ding Ding! One idiot for a "Rock Star" and when thing goes sideways I wonder if everyone will show Obama love?
You see dumbasses the implosion of the Mutant Asset Bubble is well underway and Obama will need your support..
"Can folks take politics seriously, or are we just going to sit back and make myths and legends? I'm starting to feel like I'm watching "American Idol", not a democracy in action."
Beautiful! These is no more critical thinking just a bunch of barking seals waiting for some fresh herrings...
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: Return of The What at January 20, 2009 11:12 AM
"Ladies and Gentlemen, please be seated...The Obamas are about to be announced!"
First President Bush looking a bit frail. Arriving with Barbara.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 11:14 AM
Jimmy Carter and Roslyn arriving.
Bill and Hilary arriving shortly to be seated.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 11:15 AM
"I guess the deaths of over 100,000 Iraqis don't count, after all, they are the Others."
CMU;
I would kindly ask you to not put words in my mouth. Moreover, nowhere do I take up the mantle of my father's sacrifice. It was his sacrifice, not mine. My point, which I'll try to clarify since you wanted to distort it, is that it shows a total lack of historical perspective to say that the death and destruction of the past 8 years is of Biblical proportions. Even taking the 100,000 Iraqi's into account, we're still well short of the 500,000 service men who were killed in WWII. I'd say it is a little short of the TWELVE MILLION Russians who died in WWII.
Posted by: benson at January 20, 2009 11:16 AM
Rahm Emmanuel arriving.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 11:17 AM
quote:
I'm starting to feel like I'm watching "American Idol", not a democracy in action.
lol totally. and in 8 years he can rid of michelle and star in VH1's Barack of Love
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at January 20, 2009 11:19 AM
Cheers for Jimmy & Roslyn as they make their way to their seats.
GHW & Barbara are coming out.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 11:20 AM
Cheers for Bill and Hilary as they come out.
The Mall is full of people as far as the eye can see!
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 11:22 AM
The Bush daughters arriving.
Laura Bush will be next to be seated.
Diane Feinstein will be speaking and then Aretha Franklin will be singing. [not sure of the song yet.]
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 11:24 AM
I feel sorry for Obama quite frankly. He's becoming president in Great Depression No. 2, and people have huge expectations of him. Akin to when Nelson Mandela went from prison to president, he doesn't have much hope of living up to inflated expectations. I hope people can be realistic about things.
I think the big day was when he won, it was uncertain beforehand and huge when it happened, and shocking to plenty of people, including a global audience. It was great. A kick up the ass. People were dancing in the street, getting arrested at Nrth 7th and Bedford and the like. Today is just not the same, its formalistic, it doesn't have the same visceralness, the raw reality. Its all pre-planned, its ex post facto. I've never been one for pomp though.
Posted by: dittoburg at January 20, 2009 11:24 AM
Ah, Aretha will sing "My Country 'Tis of Thee".
Sasha and Malia are arriving with Mrs. Robinson!
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 11:25 AM
Laura Bush and Lynne Cheney coming out.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 11:28 AM
I may need to take a break to watch Biff.
The Inaugural address is supposed to be at 12:01, but it seems they are running a bit behind schedule.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 11:30 AM
Michelle and Jill coming out!
Followed by Bush, alone.
Then Biden to be followed by Obama.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 11:33 AM
Michelle has The Lincoln Bible for the swearing in!
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 11:37 AM
"i have to set up a tv and find an antennae for everyone to watch the inauguration(sp?). people should stay at home or tape it and we shouldnt be forced to watch it in an office."
Yeah...this will take precious time away from your blogging during work.
Posted by: East New York at January 20, 2009 11:43 AM
President-Elect Barack H. Obama coming out!!!!!
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 11:44 AM
Just come and work in my office at 30 Rock. You can hear the whole darn thing whether you want to or not.
Posted by: dittoburg at January 20, 2009 11:45 AM
WHAT does the man stand for??
You're going to find out, because he's the President now, dude.
Posted by: East New York at January 20, 2009 11:47 AM
"Eh... I don't want to bust anyone's bubble but.."
I am impervious to your blather, Mr. What.
Posted by: misterbubble at January 20, 2009 11:48 AM
Rick Warren just finished the Invocation. Aretha is singing.
[Hi Bubble! Feeling frothy are you?!]
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 11:55 AM
Why are they singing the British National Anthem tune?
Posted by: dittoburg at January 20, 2009 11:55 AM
Just wikipedia-ed the tune, it has a long and complicated history.
Posted by: dittoburg at January 20, 2009 11:59 AM
Now I do find Warren's several mentions of Obama's race almost-hyproctical! (it's all in the delivery.)
Posted by: cmu at January 20, 2009 11:59 AM
Vice President Joe Biden has been sworn in!
[Music by Itzak Perlman and Yo-Yo Ma now.]
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 12:00 PM
Obama still needs to be sworn in, but he is OFFICIALLY the President of the United States!
President Barack Obama!
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 12:03 PM
I'm hoping to see more of those Aretha hats on ladies going to church on Sunday in Bed Stuy
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 12:04 PM
Break out the bubbly!
Posted by: misterbubble at January 20, 2009 12:06 PM
Perhaps the time is ripe to open a milliners.
Posted by: dittoburg at January 20, 2009 12:07 PM
We've got champagne here at the Mutant Asset Hedge Fund and have ordered lunch from Virgil's.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 12:29 PM
Truly incredible speech. Idealistic and much of it in iambic pentameter.
Posted by: mopar at January 20, 2009 12:29 PM
And may I say...may God bless President Barack Obama. [can't say it often enough.]
Tremendous speech!
And now the poem by Elizabeth Alexander, "Praise Song for the Day".
And now the Benediction.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 12:32 PM
Also he might be the first president to mention unbelievers. I feel acknowledged.
Posted by: mopar at January 20, 2009 12:38 PM
And now the National Anthem...
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 12:38 PM
"We've got champagne here at the Mutant Asset Hedge Fund and have ordered lunch from Virgil's."
You better order some butt plugs!
U.S. Stocks Fall on Profit Concern; State Street, Wells Tumble
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a6jAO.Br.Lw0&refer=home
State Street Corp., the largest money manager for institutions, tumbled 47 percent after unrealized bond losses almost doubled. Wells Fargo & Co. declined 13 percent following an analyst’s prediction that the bank will cut its dividend. As Barack Obama’s presidency begins, the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index extended its retreat since Election Day to 14 percent.
Hey what happen to the "Obama bounce"? If you have any money in a Mutual Fund or Money Market account, I think you better pick up the phone now.
I think this MAB turn real bad, real fast! I thought the would be a break but there are no more lithium crystals to power the Anti-Gravity machine..
Buh Bye Asshats! Nice knowing ya...
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at January 20, 2009 12:44 PM
And now the media blah, blah, blah....cobblehiller, signing off on the blow by blow!
[But still hanging around...]
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 12:44 PM
cobblehiller, thanks again. I managed to watch the inauguration from 11:30 to 12:30. I'll listen again later to his speech as I missed certain parts. What I heard was very impressive. Let's hope he can accomplish at least a fraction of what he hopes.
mopar, as a "non-believer" (sounds so evil), I was happy to be included in the speech. My only gripe is the lack of separation of church and state in the proceedings. I can understand mentioning in the speech the need for people of different religions and "non-believers" to come together, but, other than that, I would prefer it stay out of inaugurations, speeches, etc.
Posted by: Biff Champion at January 20, 2009 12:49 PM
What Biff said.
Posted by: misterbubble at January 20, 2009 12:52 PM
he mentioned "non-believers"? Good for him. I don't think he actually believes anyway.
Posted by: dittoburg at January 20, 2009 12:53 PM
Great! Glad you were able to see it Biff!
I'm enjoying watching Bush leave!
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 12:53 PM
I guess benson hasn't gotten the point of why Obama is so popular. It's because his beloved GOP has taken us so far off course, done so much dmage to us that we would have elected and lauded a goldfish if we beleived it could get us to change the path we are on. I find it really interesting that rather than try to focus on change and making things better you'd rather start putting the new President down.
I'll be enjoying "American Idol" profoundly- especially after 8 years of enduring "American Asshole."
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 12:55 PM
"I don't think he actually believes anyway."
ditto, I wouldn't be surprised if that is true, although we have nothing to base it on. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone would ever get elected without at least pretending to be a "believer".
Posted by: Biff Champion at January 20, 2009 12:56 PM
Biff is right. Dawkins had some interesting things to say on that very issue in The God Delusion.
Posted by: misterbubble at January 20, 2009 12:59 PM
Ok, I'm back. Shed some tears, laughed, clapped, and shouted. Mostly just proud, and hopeful, and geared up to go - personally and as an American.
Benson, my remark about death and destruction of Biblical proportion was not so narrow as to only refer to America. I was thinking about the casualties of all the wars and conflicts in the last decade. I specifically thinking of the victims of Katrina, of the tsunami in Indonesia, of earthquakes in China, and other national disasters. I was thinking about the genocide in various parts of Africa, the mess in the Middle East, and the revolutions in Southeast Asia. Too much death. Some not personally connected to Bush, or America, but reflected, nonetheless, in the American response to it, and to America's role in the world. I do not see commenting on that fact to be in the least astonishing or uncalled for.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at January 20, 2009 1:01 PM
Bxgrl;
I asked for someone to tell me WHAT Obama stands for. You respond by going negative on the GOP and Bush. I think that says something.
I just want to know what policies he will implement. If you want to call that being negative on a new President, then fine, I'll take that rap.
I'm still waiting for a meaningful response to my question.
Posted by: benson at January 20, 2009 1:02 PM
Benson, the man has been president for exactly one hour.
Cool your jets.
Posted by: misterbubble at January 20, 2009 1:06 PM
"I just want to know what policies he will implement."
You've got (at least) four years to find out. Patience!
Posted by: East New York at January 20, 2009 1:06 PM
I was adamantly against Bush's non-separation of church and state and think it is the wrong road for Obama to go down as well.
It's a very valid criticism. Honeymoon over.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 1:07 PM
Thank you bubble and ENY!
benson, dear, can we have today? You can pick it up tomorrow, and the next day, and the one after that...
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 1:10 PM
Montrose;
Really?????
Allow me to quote the entirety of your statement:
"Today is important, because we are emerging from the tunnel of 8 years of failed policies, death and destruction of Biblical proportions and the squandering of international regard and good will."
You were not speaking of a decade, you were speaking of the last 8 years. Seems to me that you were talking about the Bush years and the US policies.
Even if I take your new definition,I would hardly call the last decade or eight years as one characterized by death and destruction of biblical proportions. Compared to WWII or WWI? Compared to our civil war? Compared to the 10's of millions of people who were killed under communist regimes? Compared to past plagues that culled 1/3 of the population, as happened to Europe at the beginning of the 20th century?
Posted by: benson at January 20, 2009 1:13 PM
But at least Obama had the courage to 1) mention Muslims as the second religion ("Christians and Muslims,...") and 2) mention non-believers.
Maybe within another 50 years we'll have a atheist lesbian President.
Posted by: cmu at January 20, 2009 1:16 PM
"benson, dear, can we have today? You can pick it up tomorrow, and the next day, and the one after that..."
OK, point taken.
Enjoy your day!!! As "The Terminator" said:
"I'll be back"
Posted by: benson at January 20, 2009 1:16 PM
benson- you've been nothing but negative about Obama and the man hasn't even been in office more than an hour. In fact you started being negative long before today. So much so that you haven't been paying attention to what he has been saying about what he intends to do.
as for being negative about the GOP and Bush- you must have been asleep for the last 8 years not to see the connection between the Obama election and the Bush Administration. It's called "reaction." As in "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." In other words, the mousier the Bush administration, the more intense the reaction against it.Somehow I get the strong impression that no matter what Obama does or says, it won't be enough for you. too bad about that.
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 1:17 PM
OK...enough of that bickering. There are important issues on the Forum today. Some seller has rejected an offer and Biff can't get his dryer hooked up.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 1:20 PM
bxgrl, you make the assumption that I voted. I am a firm believer that part of civic duty and our freedom is the right and obligation to abstain from voting if we do not feel a candidate is worthy of my vote.
I agree with Benson, tell me what 44 stands for but you are not allowed to use "GOP", "Republican", "Bush", "conservative" etc in your answer. Don't tell us who/what he is not, tell us who he is.
From where I sit this "change" everyone keeps talking about is going back to the Clinton Whitehouse. He is "changing" so much he is basically appointing long time Democrats to position in his administration. That is not change, that is more of the same.
And yes, I think Palin was one of the most shortsighted, tunnel vision moves made in politic in recent years. Again, politicians are all that same, Barack is no different.
I fear the inability to challenge and critique him based on his merits, lest we tarnish the "historical aspect", will cause this country great harm.
Posted by: christopher at January 20, 2009 1:21 PM
Bxgrl;
Still waiting for the answer to my question! Policies? What issues has he championed during his time in the arena - you know,taken some hits, took an unpopular stand, went aginst his core supporters, taken some wounds,etc. I'm impressed by his communication skills (especially needed after Bush) and his cool demeanor. Great qualities for a president to have. Clearly, he is very, very intelligent. Another great quality. All to the good.
I'm still not impressed. Being a leader means more than that. It means being in the arena,and fighting for what you believe in. I haven't seen that. Moreover, I'm still trying to figure out step 1: WHAT are the policies and issues he will fight for.
Waiting for the answer......
We'll take it up tomorrow. Gotta run.
Posted by: benson at January 20, 2009 1:24 PM
"He is "changing" so much he is basically appointing long time Democrats to position in his administration. That is not change, that is more of the same."
Did you expect him to appoint long time Republicans???
This is the craziest of all the criticism!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 1:27 PM
Incredible speech!!!!
I thought more ambitious than others in the recent past.
Biff, I couldn't agree with you more about less religion in these proceedings. Of course, I was making wise commentary as it was happening.
If you missed parts of Obama's speech you can read it on-line, I'm sure it's posted by now.
That's what we do, we get the speeches in print and tear them apart looking for something funny.
This one is going to be tough, but my brain is already abrewing.
I missed how Dich Cheney got down the stairs. I imagined someone carefully dragging it down with him in it...clunk, clunk, clunk.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at January 20, 2009 1:27 PM
christopher, no one is saying we cannot and will not criticize the President. Ever. Let's give the guy...say....I dunno...maybe...24 hours before you hammer him!
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 1:28 PM
What was that document that Obama had to sign in the President's Capital Offfice? He made a joke about stealing the pen!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 1:29 PM
Benson, first of all, I was throwing off a few musings for a blog, not writing a speech meant to be deconstructed by anyone. I stand by my statement, as well as my reasonings, as mentioned above. If you want to insist that this was an unfair indictment of Bush, I can't stop you. Death and suffering is not lessened by who is doing it, or by the administration involved.
Seems to me, if 9/11, Katrina, the tsunami, the Chinese earthquake, famine, disease and war, are not big enough to be of Biblical proportions, I don't want to be around for what is. Obviously, Bush is not responsible for a tsunami, but it did take place during the last 8 years, so I include it in my thinking. The point was that there has been too much death, I'm praying that there is much less in the next 8 years. I don't see how anyone can argue with that.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at January 20, 2009 1:30 PM
Maybe we should give him a day in office to begin to undo all the damage of the last 8 years before we start bitching about his policies. If you didn't vote (and I can't recall saying anything to you personally about it) then I won't even waste my time explaining it. Yes, its your right to abstain. You opted out of the process. Where's the honor it that? It just means you didn't use the privilege of your vote (you could have written in Mickey Mouse or Garfield if you really wanted to make a statement) I wouldn't take pride in not voting.
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 1:34 PM
"Waiting for the answer......"
I think the man will answer you himself if you can manage to both wait and pay attention.
The time for speculation and debate has ended. Now is a time for doing, and I believe it should be pretty clear what his policies are over the coming months, and whether or not they are successful will become more apparent over the next few years.
If you are uncomfortable that you don't have a better sense of these things now, well, I'm afraid you'll just have to hope for the best and try not to twitch too much while you wait.
By the way, did anyone else get the urge to start humming "ding dong the witch is dead" as Cheney left the scene?
Posted by: northsloperenter at January 20, 2009 1:35 PM
These responses are so incredible.
I ask OBAMA's supporters to let me know what he stands for. All I'm told is that a) he is not Bush or the GOP and b) please be patient and watch as he unfolds the answer.
Are these responses for real?? I didn't realize that electing a president was akin to going on a blind date. I've been educated.
Man, I'm glad I asked Obama supporters to let me know what he stands for!!! Forthright answers!!!!! I'm glad you "supported" him.
Posted by: benson at January 20, 2009 1:40 PM
benson- I have neither the interest nor the wherewithal to debate Obama's policies with you. You may not be impressed- that doesn't worry me, but it does surprise me that you seem to think there is nothing impressive in how a junior senator and near unknown came out of nowhere and got elected president. But then again, you were impressed with Palin, so that speaks volumes, doesn't it?
YOu can either put it down to all of us who put him in office as morons or to the errors of the McCain campaign. Mistakes on your part as is the idea that we should simply forget the last 8 years in understanding this election.
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 1:42 PM
Ah, I thought he said 'sweating on the pen' DIBS!
I can't find anything on the douments...googling.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 1:43 PM
Oh, Benson, you are like a bratty child, asking "Are we there yet? Are we there yet?" when the car is only pulling out of the driveway.
Posted by: misterbubble at January 20, 2009 1:45 PM
DIBS, I didn't expect him to appoint Republicans but his whole platform on the campaign trail was "change" and not "DC politics as usual".
His list of appointees is exactly "DC politics as usual", nothing new about it.
If he was really about change why didn't he bring in people outside the Democratic party inner circle?
And no, I wont give him 24 hours. He was elected months ago and all I've heard since the election is how great he is and will be, how smart his cabinet choices are, etc. His loyal legions of fans have been touting him for months, why should I wait to disagree?
Posted by: christopher at January 20, 2009 1:46 PM
"Man, I'm glad I asked Obama supporters to let me know what he stands for!!! Forthright answers!!!!! I'm glad you "supported" him."
I guess we're waiting for you to tell us again why it didn't bother you that Palin has no knowledge of foreign affairs. Learn to read benson. Obama talks about what he wants to do. YOu simply don't want to accept it.
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 1:47 PM
Biff: I wish I'd found this for you earlier - NYT blog of the day...
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/
live-blog-the-inauguration-of-barack-obama/
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 1:49 PM
"Are these responses for real?? I didn't realize that electing a president was akin to going on a blind date. I've been educated. Man, I'm glad I asked Obama supporters to let me know what he stands for!!! Forthright answers!!!!! I'm glad you "supported" him."
Nothing that any of the posters on this blog tells you today about President Obama will impact/change/affect/influence any policies he may or may not implement. You're just going to have to go along for the ride, GOPer. Yeah, it's a blind date. They're ALL "blind dates" until the candidate actually takes office. Now stop your whining and hail to the Chief!
Posted by: East New York at January 20, 2009 1:50 PM
Can someone please explain to christopher the laws of transition? maybe then he would understand the limitations on a President elect.
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 1:52 PM
"Oh, Benson, you are like a bratty child, asking "Are we there yet? Are we there yet?" when the car is only pulling out of the driveway."
"Learn to read benson. Obama talks about what he wants to do. YOu simply don't want to accept it."
"Yeah, it's a blind date. They're ALL "blind dates" until the candidate actually takes office. Now stop your whining and hail to the Chief!"
Thanks for not making it personal,and for engaging in a dialogue. And I'm STILL waiting for the answer to my question.
Posted by: benson at January 20, 2009 1:54 PM
and of course benson you probably won't remember how during the campaign Obama consistently laid out what he wanted to do while McCain and Palin were consistently talking about lipstick on pigs, Ayers, and who was a real American. (I certainly didn't fit their criteria).
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 1:55 PM
How 'bout that HOTD?
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 1:56 PM
benson- you'e the one who isn't engaging in a dialogue. You're baiting us- that's all.And you very well know it.
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 1:57 PM
Benson - Perhaps if you hold your breath and stamp your feet, then you'll get an answer.
Posted by: misterbubble at January 20, 2009 1:59 PM
bubble! Please say you'll come to the next 'Stoner event! ENY, you too! I gotta meet you guys!
And you too benson, so I can box your ears! [just kidding...I still owe you a drink for the Miss Chiff game!] Say... where is Miss Chiff?
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 2:02 PM
"And I'm STILL waiting for the answer to my question."
Now stand on your head and hold your breath, thus making your incredulity infinitely more convincing.
Posted by: East New York at January 20, 2009 2:02 PM
bxgrl, I don't need the "limitations of the President-elect" explained to me.
Did he appoint mostly high ranking (and former Clinton presidency) Democrats? Yes. What does that have to do with a) change and b) the laws of transition and the limitations on a President elect?
Posted by: christopher at January 20, 2009 2:06 PM
We were chatting on Biff's Forum post...thinking the next party might be in March. Maybe it should be March 20 and we can have a "Sixty Days In Office" thread to discuss that day as well. Get everybody all riled up about politics and religion and some great name-calling ahead of the evening!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 2:06 PM
Thank you sincerely for the invitation, Cobblehiller, but I have a firm policy against (knowingly) meeting up with Brownstoner posters. Frankly, I can't imagine anything more awkward and unseemly. Well, yes I can - my own posting here! A guilty pleasure to be sure. Anyway, thanks again for the invite, and I hope you land a job soon - I've been where you are now (unemployed) more than once, and now I'm in better shape than ever. That's just one reason why I have lots of hope and confidence for the future - unlike many of the new jack posters here, I've already been around the block more than once. This too, shall pass.
Posted by: East New York at January 20, 2009 2:09 PM
he needs to drop the treasury secretary who cheats on his taxes. Should've dropped him like a hot potato.
Posted by: dittoburg at January 20, 2009 2:11 PM
Benson, you say you don't understand how people can embrace Obama by creating this cult of personality. By which I assume, he is built up to an almost superhuman state, able to leap tall buildings and fix the world, immediately. After all, he's been president for almost 2 hours now, and could have fixed it all before lunch, IF HE WAS ANY GOOD.
Ridiculous, of course, yet you expect him to walk on water by explaining every minutia of his plans so that you can comment on them? He's been laying out his goals since the primaries, so his objectives certainly aren't hidden or secret. He's the president, not a dictator, not the Magician in Chief, for crying out loud. Most of his immense goals and plans for the nation still have to go through Congress and the Senate, and no one can prognosticate as to what changes, snags and complications are going to happen there. This is not going to be easy or fast.
No one can predict what will come up in the future, what will happen in the world, or in this country. In November, few people were thinking that Hamas and Israel would be adding more complications to his already busy agenda. Who knows what else is on the world's agendas?
Obama constantly speaks of us being in a time where what worked before is not working then. He is wise enough to know that expertise, sometimes in the form of Clinton era experts is needed, as is the experience of someone like Gates. That does not mean there will not be new ideas, new ways of approaching things. I'd rather have experience guiding us now, rather than breaking in newbies. There will be plenty of time for the newbies to be heard, and for their voices to guide us further. Let's get this mess started down the right track first. If I need complex surgery, I'd rather have the 20 year veteran doctor over the new resident.
Best of all is the fact that Obama listens to people, and is not surrounded by people who only tell him that he is right. He is not afraid to change his mind, or to change a policy or program if it is not working. I don't need a punch list of his programs. I need someone who is eager to take charge and do something. Let's let him be in office at least overnight before we expect him to work miracles. Our economy, our foreign relationships, our environment, didn't erode overnight. It's going to take time to fix, and I'm willing to give him the time to do it.
On a lighter note, I wonder if they briefed him on what REALLY goes on in Area 51, yet.
Live long and prosper.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at January 20, 2009 2:12 PM
"And no, I wont give him 24 hours. He was elected months ago and all I've heard since the election is how great he is and will be, how smart his cabinet choices are, etc. His loyal legions of fans have been touting him for months, why should I wait to disagree?"
1. Change has to do with policy and direction
2. He appointed those he thought were best qualified- not because they were from Clinton's administration. (Even Conservatives admired his choices for their pragmatism)
3. Change is different than throwing out the baby with the bath water
4. You're already complaining about he will govern when in fact he was not allowed to govern or make policy or act until he was sworn in.
You and benson both seem to have already decided about his administration so there's really not much to discuss.
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 2:13 PM
Cobblehiller - We'll see. A bubble is such an ephemeral thing, I may have popped by then.
Posted by: misterbubble at January 20, 2009 2:13 PM
"We were chatting on Biff's Forum post...thinking the next party might be in March. Maybe it should be March 20 and we can have a "Sixty Days In Office" thread to discuss that day as well. Get everybody all riled up about politics and religion and some great name-calling ahead of the evening!!!!"
LOL! Then we can spend all night at the party 'accidentally' spilling drinks on one another! As in, 'What was that benson...oops, I'm so sorry did I just spill red wine on you?'
I think I'll go out and get a chicken and cook BH a nice dinner! I can't sit here with these chowderheads all day! [Oops, I just called them a name!]
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 2:14 PM
Montrose;
Thanks for a sincere response. I'm glad that at least one of his supporters was able to say why they supported him, without resorting to name-calling and personal remarks.
I think you are still missing my point. I am not expecting anything of him yet as president ( 2 hours and counting!). I am talking about what his philosophical/policy leanings are, his "guiding principles", if you will. I want to know the principles for which he will go to the mat. I do believe a candidate owes the American people that. Alas, let's see what happens, and hope for the best.
Enjoy the day!
Thanks for the dialogue.
By the way, just as an aside to Bxgrl: you know very well that I have written on these pages the reason for my support for McCain/Palin. You may think my reasoning is inane, idiotic, whatever- I'll accept it. Grant me this point: when I support someone, I state my reasons for doing so. When someone asks me what I like about the candidate, I tell them.
Posted by: benson at January 20, 2009 2:22 PM
Benson, for what it's worth - to me it is almost beyond belief (after the last 8 years) to hear a presidential candidate, now president, say that healthcare is a right, not a privilege. To hear talk of sustainable energy and a green economy. To hear talk of taxation being an important duty we must all bear, and fairly. To hear talk of nuclear disarmament (I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw it on his web site many months ago). Talk, in short, of policies that are for the good of this country and its people as a whole. Of course it's "just talk" right now, how could it not be? And he seems too pragmatic a man to make sweeping and specific promises at a time when things are in such a terrible state. I cannot believe there are citizens of this country who are just not plain overjoyed to have as their newly elected leader a man so patently intelligent, careful, thoughtful, and hard-working. I do not even have to approach the issue of his race to find this the most inspiring election of my lifetime.
Posted by: mshook at January 20, 2009 2:43 PM
Darn you Cobblehiller, now I want some chowder.
Posted by: misterbubble at January 20, 2009 2:56 PM
benson, I'm glad he hasn't put out his complete economic plan yet, as no doubt it will need to change with the circumstances. As the current plans have (TARP to banks).
Barrons yesterday, on the cover, set out what they believe Obama should do. A few months ago, they also set out on the cover what Obama should do. The two plans do not match. So, no one really knows what will work, but what I do like about him is that he is brilliant enough to be flexible in his thinking, he's not stubborn like the last guy.
Because today BAC is down 20%, C is down 15%, and SKF is thru the roof. The market looks like it is about to re-test its Oct/Nov lows. The banks have been thru a 2nd round of re-capitalization, and look what we have. The markets ain't buying it. Maybe the second shoe is about to drop, just when things were looking almost stable.
My feeling is that Obama is much better than either McCain or Bush to direct us thru this mess.
As far as policy, he said he would roll back the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy. Now he says he won't. You could call it flip-flopping, I say it shows the man can change with the situation. I like that, and I feel good about an Obama administration.
Posted by: denton at January 20, 2009 3:02 PM
benson, as far as I can tell, you've pretty much rejected most of what people had to say about Obama while lobbing out comments like American Idol, or labeling responses (as to cmu) as "platitudes. when you and i had a discussion about Palin you said you liked her because of her "spunk", and that it was no big deal to you that she didn't have foreign policy expertise. I did call you on that because it makes even less sense to me today than it did then. Ignorance in a President or Vice-President is not bliss, and as Bush 43 has amply illustrated, a very bad omission. Yet you're complaining that you think people are making Obama a cult of personality. What exactly did you make of Palin?
what do you think the GOP was doing by trying to convince us the Mccain/Palin were "mavericks?" what did you think the GOP was doing with Bush, the cowboy?
there is a big difference in what's happening- it isn't a cult of personality you're seeing. It's a "cult" if you will of vision and leadership. This is what we wanted- the voters. A leader with vision and pragmatism, who we believe is the right person to get us back on track. Because that is the real issue. Not who is president, but who can lead us in the right direction again. we have to have confidence in the man we elected to lead us - you can call it what you will.
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 3:06 PM
Senator Kennedy collapsed from a seizure at the lunch, AND Senator Byrd apparently became ill as well.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 3:11 PM
denton-I think he said he might not make those changes right now. But we'll see- I agree with you on his flexibility. I think we need that and pragmatism, not conservatism, centrism or liberalism.
I'm terrified as we go forward, but what am confident about is that we have someone in the White House who understand the scope our problems and that it isn't just a crisis of money or arms. It's a crisis of identity and belief in ourselves as a country.
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 3:12 PM
Denton;
I hear what you're saying. Perhaps you're right: the time may call for a person who can be flexible and think on their feet,and not someone who will come in with an ideological "bent".
Going back to my original point, I wish the press would start doing its job. Of course, I can understand some of the excitement about the historic aspects of this election. However, when we're getting ready to spend $850 Billion dollars that we don't have (more borrowing from overseas),I wish that someone would be posing some hard questions.
Last night I watched Charlie Rose,and it made me sick. Five prominent journalists were talking about Obama, and they were all ready to put the guy up on Mount Rushmore already. At one point, one of them admitted that they knew little about his plans, but nevertheless, he was ready to put the guy up on the mountain.
Posted by: benson at January 20, 2009 3:18 PM
Obama seems to me to be the opposite of Bush. He is intellectually agile, Bush is as mentally rigid as a pre-set automaton. Obama is articulate Bush is not. Bush comes from a top-drawer Patrician family. Obama's father abandoned him and his mother was a free spirit. Obama sees things as they are, Bush sees things through a prism of ideology. No wonder we voted Obama into office.
I liked his line: "it is not a question of big government or small governemnt, it is a question of a government that works". Imagine that! I wonder if it will even remotely possible?
Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 3:27 PM
benson- we saw the same thing for 8 years of Bush. If you dared say that you were against going into Iraq you were pilloried. Liberals, moderates took a beating in the press and until the Iraq war started to see more and more losses, the majority of the country was quite happy to bash us libs and moderates in pubic and private. We were also getting bashed for our "family values" or supposed lack thereof.
I didn't hear the GOPers or MSM press complaining about that. they just went with the flow.
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 3:28 PM
It's so great that we have John Lewis here [on CNN] to tell us his experience and share his impressions and feelings.
That was a pretty neat [if generalized] little synopsis sam. "Obama sees things as they are, Bush sees things through a prism of ideology. " - That's one of the many reasons I really like President Obama* and sincerely disliked Bush.
[*How many times can I work that into a sentence today?! It feels so good to say it!]
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 3:45 PM
cobblehiller- when di you start really crying? I was weepy all morning but when Biden took the oath i really lost it. I finally realized Bush was well and truly gone. I used much of the LL's tissue.
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 3:55 PM
bxgrl, I was a good little trooper all morning, really! ...until MM wrote her post, and that set me off, and then I was just crying off and on at every thing that happened. I think John Lewis said it best when he said - paraphrasing - "I'm not sure I can fully take in the enormity of this moment."
I can't quite described the feeling of watching Bush get on that helicopter. It's a mixture of relief, and anger, and bitterness.
OMG, President Obama is walking along side the motorcade!
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 4:04 PM
I agree with Denton, I think he is wise not to increases taxes at this point, even though it was a previous point of his to do so. That would be a real blunder.
Posted by: dittoburg at January 20, 2009 4:08 PM
benson,
I thought that today's inauguration was a national milestone. I really do. I thought Bush II had his strengths but ultimately I think his rigid little he-man walk was reflective of his rigid little he-man brain. He really was not up to the task at hand. His father was a far better president and knew when to call it quits in Iraq. Of course the elder was smart enough to take Colin Powell's advise.
Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 4:10 PM
Well, in a classic Dept of Education moment, the central administration proclaimed that all schools could watch the Inauguration on streaming video provided by the DOE website. Of course this was a great idea, but the DOE internet (all schools must use the same server) was overloaded and the system crashed at 11:57 a.m. Could they not have foreseen this? The stupidity of education bureaucrats NEVER ends! I hate - HATE - them and all they stand for.
Posted by: sixyearsandcounting at January 20, 2009 4:16 PM
Those tissues will be added to the rent, fear not!
I think some of the giddiness surrounding all this is, as people are saying, the contrasts between the man who was president, and the one who is. Bush was such a failure in so many big ways that almost anyone looks better in comparison. By the time that ceremony was over, he must have been happy to circle the White House, and head for Texas. I almost felt sorry for him. To see the millions gathered, to hear the applause, to have to listen to a speech that basically repudiated most of what you did over the last 8 years, had to be painful.
All of those people were not there only because Obama is the first African American presidenat, and because that is historic. They were there because this country wants to believe that we are not circling the bowl, but toughening ourselves to go on to better things. The inauguration symbolizes that our transition of power occurs with someone's hand on a book, not holding a gun.
What a change to have crowds cheering an American president instead of protesting him. In America. Tomorrow, the hard work begins. I think a little ceremony is in order today. Can we give the guy that, and at least wait a bit to see what he can start to do before complaining that he is overrated? It will take him a couple of days to not get lost in the White House, I'll give him some time to find the answers to everything else.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at January 20, 2009 4:20 PM
The internet was a mess this morning.
I heard the speech on an old radio.
Never throw out your old radio!!!
Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 4:21 PM
Sam;
I seem to be getting into an endless debate today!
Believe me, as a conservative,I am painfully aware of the problems with Bush II. However, so much of this dialogue falls into marketing slogans. You call Bush rigid, but I can assure you, as a free-market conservative, that I and my group would have NEVER agreed to the TARP idea. I am still angry with Bush II about this issue. My point,however, is that he did not follow his ideology on this one. He looked past his ideology to do what he thought best for the country, at the expense of getting guys like me (his core constituency) angry with him. THAT is what I want to see Obama do. Moreover, with Iraq, he did change course.
When I said that "you could do better", I was referring to your admiration for Obama's statement that "it is not a question of big government or small governemnt, it is a question of a government that works". I don't know, maybe it's just me,but I can't relate to a statement like that. To me,it's just slightly better than some catchy lingo for a new car (I work in marketing these days).
Posted by: benson at January 20, 2009 4:23 PM
I think the enormity of it didn't really sink in until i saw the huge crowds. I'd been down to the Mall for th 25th Anniversary of the Vietnam wall- i was the designer for the event- and just standing in the action by the Washington Monument gives you a minute idea of how huge that area is.. I think seeing the size of the crowds overwhelmed me- just think. What kind of passion for the common good and the good of the country this man has inspired. How desperate we were for change. I can't even keep typing- I start weeping again and I have no more tissues because the LL didn't see fit to let me have more :-(
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 4:23 PM
There is a poll in the Times I think that says not only are a majority of people confidant that Obama begin to turn us around, but they are willing to be patient. That's really amazing in itself.
But in some ways what is more remarkable is that what we voted for Obama was to reaffirm ourselves and what we believed this country was all about. So today we begin anew.
(except the cheap LL is raising my rent to cover all the tissues I used.Some things never change :-)
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 4:39 PM
bxgrl, you need a new LL, this one is such a hard ass!
Wasn't it amazing to see the Mall fill up? I was watching from the time I woke up this morning. [BH is so patient with me!] That's key - desperate for change. There's so much going on on so many levels in this Inauguration.
There were certain points in his speech that really got me. When he talked about the challenges and meeting them. It's that moment when your chest fills up, your eyes blur, and I lost it!
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 4:43 PM
Filling the Mall was amazing. The only other event in the Mall I can remember as moving was the display of the AIDS quilts.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 4:45 PM
Oh well- another expressive statement from Rush Limbaugh. He hopes Obama fails. You can't make this stuff up. And what better way to point up what a morally, politically, and ethically bankrupt asshat Rush is?
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 4:53 PM
That was, dave. so much heartbreak in one place.
cobblehiller- i lost it so many times I finally gave up and just cried continuously. Actually, I was pleasantly surprised by Rick warren. I felt that he made a concerted effort to reach out to everyone but on the other hand, he needs to put words into real action. I still dislike him and think his anti-gay policy sucks a big one, but I respect his effort to make an attempt.He began with the Shema and it was a good invocation.
I c & p'd Obama's speech to read again. Just a thrilling day!
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 4:59 PM
Ugh, Limbaugh. Nice. That would be good for our country, right? To see the president fail?
Asshat.
Moron.
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 4:59 PM
'(except the cheap LL is raising my rent to cover all the tissues I used.Some things never change :-)'
You should have used the 'prized' fabric collection to wipe your tears!
Posted by: bayridgegirl at January 20, 2009 5:00 PM
Can't- I used it to mop up the flood ;-)
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 5:14 PM
I thought Warren was pretty good, although there were a couple awkward moments. And his anti-gay policy is just criminal.
It is such a thrilling day, and it's not over yet!
I want to see what Michelle wears to the parties! Don't you wish you could be at just one of those for even just a few minutes to see them!
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 5:18 PM
"He began with the Shema"?
Uhm, whaddaya mean bxgrl? Sorry, I'm such a heathen...is this some religious ritual/passage?
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 5:22 PM
"The only other event in the Mall I can remember as moving was the display of the AIDS quilts."
Does the phrase "I Have a Dream" ring a bell?
Posted by: East New York at January 20, 2009 5:32 PM
I was really too young to remember that ENY, but you're right.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 5:55 PM
While everybody was barking like seals the Mutant Asset Bubble is imploding!
Lookie here! U.S. Stocks Slide in Dow Average’s Worst Inauguration Day Drop
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aOYw.awwsNSg&refer=home
Jan. 20 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks sank, sending the Dow Jones Industrial Average to its worst Inauguration Day decline, as speculation banks must raise more capital sent financial shares to an almost 14-year low.
There will no more crack, game over for Banking! The place where you retards get money to but overpriced Brownstones!
"State Street Corp., the largest money manager for institutions, tumbled 59 percent after unrealized bond losses almost doubled. Wells Fargo & Co. and Bank of America Corp. slumped more than 23 percent on an analyst’s prediction that they’ll need to take steps to shore up their balance sheets. The Dow’s 4 percent slide was the most on an Inauguration Day in the measure’s 112-year history, according to data compiled by Bloomberg and the Stock Trader’s Almanac."
I'm willing to bet that some of the largest pension funds are insolvent! I'm willing to bet that all of this crap is INSOLVENT!
"The S&P 500 plunged 5.3 percent to 805.22. The S&P 500 Financials Index fell 17 percent to below its lowest closing level since March 1995 as concern European banks need more capital also weighed on the group. The Dow average slid 332.13 points to 7,949.09. Both the Dow and S&P 500 retreated to two- month lows."
You know the spring selling season is right around the corner and when everything is in Meltdown, how in the hell are you gonna sell your property?
"The S&P 500 is off to its worst start to a year, shattering the biggest rally since World War II, as analysts cut earnings estimates by a record 83 percentage points and companies signal worse to come."
And there is still more pain??!!
"U.S. financial losses from the credit crisis may reach $3.6 trillion, according to New York University Professor Nouriel Roubini, who predicted last year’s economic and stock-market meltdowns.
“If that’s true, it means the U.S. banking system is effectively insolvent because it starts with a capital of $1.4 trillion,” Roubini said at a conference in Dubai today. “This is a systemic banking crisis.”
Hey Dumbasses Obama is going to need your support on everything! I hope you was listing to his speech...
Buh Bye Asshats...
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at January 20, 2009 7:27 PM
ENY- of course- I can't believe I could have forgotten that. I've only seen replays of it but it blows me away every time. I remember the day he died- where i was, who told me, the aftermath.
cobblehiller- it would be so cool. I loved her outfit. I bet she looks even better tonight. the shema is probably the most classic and main Jewish prayer. Shema Yisrael, Adonai eloheinu, Adonai echad (hear O Israel, the Lord our G-d, the Lord is one.. Yeah- warren did a nice job considering. But he needs to get over himself. What do you bet by 9:15 the naysayers will be out in full force whining, "well...when's he gonna fix it??"
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 7:54 PM
It's 7:56 and I haven't seen any change yet.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 7:57 PM
Aww dave- give it til 8:30 at least.
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 8:06 PM
Hoboken, where are you? I'm waiting for your market analysis.
Posted by: kingston at January 20, 2009 8:09 PM
i don't remember any of the 60s - although I vaguely remember the 60s NY blackout - candles. What year was that?
"the shema is probably the most classic and main Jewish prayer."
Oy, thank you. This shiksa was totally lost! [With apologies to my Jewish ex! I, clearly, wasn't paying attention at services.]
What, I love ya, but you are a curmudgeon...
There is already some nattering about how this wasn't Obama's best speech. Blah, blah. OY! One day, that's all I ask! Can we have one single joyous day, please!
It's 8:15pm, are we fixed yet?! ; )
Posted by: cobblehiller at January 20, 2009 8:20 PM
Well, cobblehiller old pal, ya can't please 'em all.
I - for one - am tickled pink.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at January 20, 2009 9:05 PM
The first lady's gown was designed by Isabel Toledo, a lady I have met a couple of times. It looks to me a little like a chenille bedspread but she looks beautiful nevertheles, especially when dancing with B. The dress matches his tie.
I like the one-shoulder look, it is very soigne.
Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 10:17 PM
Sam, we both work in fashion. (Sort of.) What, don't you have one nice thing to say about today and the inauguration?
Posted by: mopar at January 20, 2009 11:01 PM
Tried Luz in Fort Greene for dinner. Many there seemed to be celebrating, one in a lovely red-white-blue ensemble. Saw not a thing on Dekalb.
Posted by: mopar at January 20, 2009 11:06 PM
I thought Isabel Toledo did the outfit today- the yellow one. The gown is by Jason Wu (I think his name is). Thought she looked beautiful but she can carry off pretty much everything with her height and figure.
(and no, mopar- he hasn't. I thought he would be really happy today. Go figure.)
Posted by: bxgrl at January 20, 2009 11:35 PM
Obama will lead this country to near ruin.
He's in the pocket of the big bankers who advise him and control him.
They're telling him to bail out the banks because they own the banks.
I sick and tired of hearing about "liquidity" problems. It's all BS. Let failing businesses fail so well run businesses can thrive.
Obama will listen to the bankers since he is their puppet.
I'm afraid we're screwed.
Posted by: IronBalls at January 20, 2009 11:43 PM
yes, Isabel Toledo did the yellow, hand-embroidered job for the afternoon and Wu or Chu, who is famous, but I never heard of him, did the chenille bedspread ballgown.
No Dave, I'm not a girl, but I used to be in garment biz.
Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 11:45 PM
{sound of eyes rolling]
Posted by: SnarkSlope at January 20, 2009 11:46 PM
My father was a garmento- the Toledo outfit, FYI, was lace over wool.
wished I could see the ball gown better but it was chiffon so it flowed beautifully.
ironballs, you'll have great company with benson and christopher. misery loves that. go, mingle.
Posted by: bxgrl at January 21, 2009 12:19 AM
I'm glad we have that all cleared up now, sam.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 21, 2009 8:09 AM
bxgirl = I hereby award thee Snark of the Day. Bravo.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at January 21, 2009 9:00 AM
Oh. Oh....blush! blush... gosh. That's so much better than QOTD -which, of course I already have. I will treasure this award.
Posted by: bxgrl at January 21, 2009 9:51 AM
The Toledo outfit was wool lace! And gosh darn breathtaking it was.
IronBalls, you might turn out to be right but McCain would do the same. Every president would. Hard to say what will happen until it does. Remember Sweden.
Posted by: mopar at January 21, 2009 12:02 PM
And Sam, how you could ever have lived in SF and be in the garment industry....oh, the horror...
Posted by: mopar at January 21, 2009 12:03 PM
Mopar,
Every President wouldn't do the same thing. A very smart conservative President would likely listen to conservative economists who warn against drastically increasing our national debt and don't believe in bailing out private businesses.
But you're probably right about McCain. He's not the brightest bulb on the tree either.
Posted by: IronBalls at January 21, 2009 7:35 PM
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