Last Week's Biggest Sales

Whatever. Just wait and see what happens. I remain convinced that things have much further to fall - as I've said all along, this is just the beginning.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at January 8, 2009 12:18 PM

And Benson, I'm staying put in NYC in my lovely, economical rental, taking my sweet time as I field calls from brokers who are much more willing these days to consider our lowball bids...

Posted by: Miss Muffett at January 8, 2009 12:37 PM

And Benson, I'm staying put in NYC in my lovely, economical rental, taking my sweet time as I field calls from brokers who are much more willing these days to consider our lowball bids...

Posted by: Miss Muffett at January 8, 2009 12:39 PM

Oops, sorry for double post. Mopar,just before Xmas, seller seemed ready to accept our low-ball offer but we wound up passing since we just didn't love the house enough and frankly, it still seemed pricey for what it was. We're pickier now in terms of bang for buck given direction of market. We of course know there will be compromises but we're standing firmer now on price/compromise ratio. This is definitely a market where we can take our time, given our fortunate position, and all indicators pointing to lower prices and, eventually, more inventory. Hope all had good holidays!

Posted by: Miss Muffett at January 8, 2009 1:04 PM

Traditionalmod and 11217 - re: renting out instead of selling - even the article 11217 alludes to points out that's not an option for all. As for us, we only need one house and there are certainly going to be some sellers out there who won't have the luxury of waiting this market out since it could be a while. Price declines ARE happening (and growing) no matter what Sebb and the bulls want to believe.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at January 8, 2009 4:08 PM

Also, didn't anybody read the article Tuesday (posted on this blog) saying that things fell off a cliff in 4th qtr and there is a bloodbath coming?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/06/nyregion/06estate.html

Posted by: Miss Muffett at January 8, 2009 4:20 PM

Why 11217? I'm just quoting an article in the New York Times. Why is that not rational?

Posted by: Miss Muffett at January 8, 2009 4:43 PM

Actually, Miss Chiff, since the meltdown, we have been going to far fewer open houses since we are now much more cautious. Since Sept, we have only had one offer get very far, to the point of basically being accepted. And the reason we turned that house down was because, pretty far into the process, we had an architect come look at it and learned it needed a lot more money than we’d originally thought. My point in sharing the story was just to demonstrate the shifting attitudes of brokers. Even pre-meltdown, we felt prices were excessive, and our bids reflected that. But whereas before, brokers scoffed, now they are taking us very seriously and we are finding some are currently coming out of the woodwork to call us to see if we’re still looking, since buyers, esp well-qualified ones, are increasingly scarce.

We remain serious buyers and we don’t place bids lightly, nor do we seek to taunt sellers as you seem to imply. And we *will* buy when we find the right place – however, our definition of “right” has now shifted, mainly in terms of budget. We simply are no longer willing to pay the kinds of prices that even last spring seemed palatable. Back then, we were willing to “stretch” – and even our “low” offers still reflected an enormous stretch for us. But now, while we don’t expect to get a house for free – and indeed, still have a healthy budget – we also at long last are seeing the possibility of buying a home with adequate space for our growing family, near our child’s school, that we can afford without being “house poor” since our incomes are actually quite modest. Many sellers right now seem bitter, but what they seem to forgot is all the potential buyers who have been priced out for so long who now finally have a shot of getting in at prices that are more in line with historical norms and not the craziness of the last few years.

I know I get flak from having profited from this craziness, but I really don’t think the buyers of our previous apartment got “screwed”. At the time, our place was still priced below many comparable properties because even then, we were nervous about the state of market and so we priced conservatively. The buyers love the place and intend to stay for a long time, so hopefully they will not need to sell in the next 5-10 years or so. And at the time, we were not sure we were doing the right thing by selling first (a decision fueled largely by the need to live in a different public school zone); indeed I felt major “seller’s remorse” since many were still caught up in the bubble’s fervor and told us we were crazy to sell. But, we took a gamble and yes, I’m glad. No one can predict the future, so I feel lucky more than anything else, though I also think the writing was on the wall for a long time.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at January 8, 2009 8:04 PM

Ugh Sebb, not sure why I even answer you but no, my previous home was in prime Brownstone Brooklyn.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at January 8, 2009 8:41 PM

Miss Chiff - your assumptions could not be further off the mark and suggest that you are ignorant or perhaps just plain angry.

Regarding our old place, we were not "stupid" as you say to price slightly below market value at the time. Our broker, seeing that the market was in a potential state of flux, advised us to price low to generate interest. It worked - we had several offers over ask. Our buyers really wanted the place, and we all felt good about the sale. We were not only selling due to the writing on the wall about the market - school was a big part of it since we cannot afford private school so moving into our public school of choice was imperative and at the time, it was too hard to find a purchase so we decided to rent for a while since it seemed that prices were at worst going to stagnate so we had nothing to lose (only later did we realize just how much we had to gain).

Regarding our budget in the past - we are prudent people, but as with many New Yorkers of late, had come to accept that housing had to eat up a major part of our household budget. With our previous home, which we bought before starting a family, we were careful to keep within a budget which seemed high at the time, but proved to be modest as prices skyrocketed. As our family grew, we decided the only way to get more space was to stretch. We were still planning to spend far less than all the mortgage brokers were willing to approve us for, but of course, that's because - as has become evidently clear - credit was being granted too easily. We knew better and wanted to keep our mortgage modest especially since, with small children, preserving time with them is also a key priority, as opposed to needing to spend more and more time working long hours to pay the mortgage. By the time we seriously started looking, there were the first glimmers that the boom might not last forever, hence our putting in offers below ask.

And to suggest that we were somehow recklessly stringing along the seller of the recent house we looked at is absurd. Believe me, we are very aware of the need for due diligence, but it's a bit chicken and egg. That is, we are not going to waste our time nor that of our architect doing extensive research on a house if we know off the bat that the price we have in mind is totally out of the question for the seller. So, we started with our offer well below ask. Then, it was the seller/broker who repeatedly re-approached us, not the other way around. When it became clear that the seller was more and more interested in US as buyers (since we were well qualified and that became the key criteria in spite of our price being well below ask), we then decided that we would pursue research of the house with an architect. But, given what we found out, it did not seem worth pursuing and we immediately told the seller. As you must also know, homes almost involve some kind of compromise and price is a big part of that. For example, there are many homes that, with the right renovation, could be very beautiful. But that renovation can be pricey so it's only worth it for many sellers if the purchase price is sufficiently affordable.

To say that "If you aren't a liar, you are so painfully clueless about how this process works that you simply don't deserve to be taken seriously on the subject" reflects a bitterness that undermines how seriously your comments can be taken.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at January 8, 2009 11:22 PM

Woops, meant to say houses almost always involve a compromise that is only worth it for most *buyers* if purchase price is sufficiently affordable.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at January 8, 2009 11:26 PM

What doesn't make sense about my story Miss Chiff?

And if you don't like my blathering, skip my posts.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at January 8, 2009 11:44 PM

Miss Chiff - Many people bring in contractors/architects at a later stage in the process and many people also put in offers at first and then, especially in a market like this, as they learn more they decide it's not worth it. Of course we had a rough idea of the renovation costs before we put in our bid, so we bid accordingly to see if we were even in the ballpark for the seller. As it turned out, at first he said no way, but then rather quickly changed his tune - but this was very early on. It would be one thing if we were going to contract but we were far from that - we were simply at the stage where the seller was willing to accept our low offer and my point with this anecdote is to demonstrate just how much the market has changed. You are making a big stink out of nothing. Your comments are a reminder that often, those who insult reveal more about themselves than those they ostensibly attack.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at January 9, 2009 12:23 AM