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January 27, 2009

House of the Day: 177 St. James Place

177 St. James Place is one of a pair of narrow Romanesque Revival houses designed in 1888 by the prominent Brooklyn architect Mercein Thomas for a man named Russell Engs, who resided at 86 Cambridge Place (which has been on and off the market for years). Now the 12-foot-wide brick house is on the market for $1,150,000. Since the house is only 2,440-square-feet, it's not a bargain on a size basis, but it is a chance to own a real charmer of a house in Clinton Hill for a not-huge price tag. Has anyone looked at it yet?
177 St. James Place [Fred Sanders] GMAP P*Shark

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Oh my gosh!
They're small, I'll take two.

What a great house!
That dormer business is unique to this pair.

Posted by: sam at January 27, 2009 1:18 PM

Lovely little house. 12 feet might be something of a pain in the ass to work with, but the detail's beautiful.

Taking all the interior shots at night was kind of a mistake though.

Also, no floorplan. ALAS!

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 27, 2009 1:20 PM

This is Biggie's old block I believe...

Posted by: wasder at January 27, 2009 1:23 PM

Really cute and sweet house. Really high and ridiculous price. This is the kind of house that should not cost more than $500K. Sorry.

Posted by: bk14 at January 27, 2009 1:26 PM

Also, that fireplace is awesome ... and I normally hate fireplaces.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 27, 2009 1:26 PM

12 feet wide?
Looks like 8-10 foot ceilings?

And interesting look, but too claustrophobic for me.

Posted by: christopher at January 27, 2009 1:27 PM

omg cw i thought *i* was the only one who detests fireplaces!!! (they kind of scare me like horses and peacocks!)

*r*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at January 27, 2009 1:29 PM

The listing website doesn't look like a real estate company. Is is FSBO?
The outside photo is very cute, but 12 ft wide is a no go. It's impossible to fit furniture AND walk around it. I should know, I once rented a 1br "apartment" that was 12 foot wide by 35 ft long. It was a total pain.

Posted by: Maly at January 27, 2009 1:30 PM

bk14 - if this house was listed at $500k I'd be calling mortgage brokers right now for preapproval. :P

But I agree in principle. Over a million for 2400 sq. feet in a probable-fixer-upper is pretty crazy.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 27, 2009 1:30 PM

And considering I bought a house that was marginally cheaper than this and 800 square feet larger right around the corner this price is definitely a bit suspect. I would think 800-900K would get this done.

Posted by: wasder at January 27, 2009 1:32 PM

Please, this is so overpriced, and depressing. Small dark and crappy.

Posted by: billyboomer at January 27, 2009 1:34 PM

proportions of that fireplace make the already tiny room look even tinier.

Posted by: bowl of dicks at January 27, 2009 1:34 PM

The price per square foot is not outlandish, it's the layout restrictions that a 12 foot wide house creates. If this was just a couple of feet wider, it would make a world of difference, especially with a central staircase...

Posted by: 1842 at January 27, 2009 1:36 PM

I've been looking at the photos...

... looks like you enter in to the living room, the stairs appear to be in the middle/right of the house.

Kitchen might be in the back of the first floor. Probably two bedrooms per floor (front and back - stairs in the middle).

Have no idea where the bathrooms would be...

It looks like there might be a usable basement, English basement possibly. Might be a possibility, gives you an extra floor of livable space (rec room type thing since you probably can't legally put a bedroom down there...)

Just thinking out loud...

Posted by: christopher at January 27, 2009 1:40 PM

"This is Biggie's old block I believe..."

It was all a dream...(the price)

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at January 27, 2009 1:44 PM

Yes, it's a FSBO. It's actually been on the market for at least 6 months. I remember seeing the listing before last summer and it was listed in the $1.3 range. There were no photos back then.

Posted by: bk14 at January 27, 2009 1:50 PM

i saw this house when it was on the market 5-6 years ago. simply a stunning old house. the house has 4 floors and basically two 12x20' rooms per floor with a central staircase dividing the space. all of the original woodwork is in gorgeous condition. working dumbwaiter, original fireplace tile etc...

it didn't make sense for us mostly because we would have had to ruin the space by carving out a rental apartment to make it affordable.

for a single family it could be great home.

btw, biggie lived up the block on the other side of fulton...

Posted by: benno at January 27, 2009 1:54 PM

Its a beautifully renovated house, but it is very claustrophobic. The bathrooms are tiny.

Posted by: Mitch at January 27, 2009 1:55 PM

This would be good if they were having a "two for one" sale.

Posted by: sam at January 27, 2009 1:55 PM

Rob - generally speaking I'm not a fireplace fan because a) I am *rarely* too cold in the winter (usually too hot, thanks to the insane steam heating in most buildings) so I would never use them, and b) they tend to be placed right in the middle of the best wall of any given room, thus wasting a ton of space.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 27, 2009 1:57 PM

600K

Posted by: 11217 at January 27, 2009 1:59 PM

I think you are all being too harsh in your denunciation of this place. It is a very special house on an architecturally unique block. The center stairs make a huge difference in a narrow house like this. I hope someone with a bit of vision gets this -- with the right owner this place will really shine.

Posted by: Schultz at January 27, 2009 2:01 PM

I don't understand the concept of not liking a fireplace.
Or thinking they waste space.
???
Is this a prevalent feeling among a certain group of buyers?
Is that why we are seeing more and more browstones hollowed out like pumpkins in order to achieve that desirable un-fireplaced look?

Posted by: sam at January 27, 2009 2:05 PM

condo buyers, sam!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 27, 2009 2:08 PM

I wonder why they would take the listing photos when it's dark outside....?

Posted by: squaredrive at January 27, 2009 2:10 PM

I think it would work at 800K. As Benno pointed out, it's too small to make sense as a 2 family. With 25% down, a 600K loan would cost about $3,600. Not unreasonable to live in very own dollhouse.

Posted by: Maly at January 27, 2009 2:11 PM

The exterior is awesone--very similar to Queen Annes in the Heights (on Hicks street and on Willow street.

Most brownstone rooms are 11 feet wide--so the rooms in a a 12 footer will be just as wide as long as it has a central staircase, which this seems to.

Price seems way too high to me.

Posted by: shillstoner at January 27, 2009 2:14 PM

Here's a tip from Sam:
If you are a single guy or gal seeking to become more attractive in the eyes of other singles, then by this house.
Nothing says "sex appeal" like your own house. Especially an incredibly cool litle house like this one.
It's less than a one-bedroom at the Meier tower.

Posted by: sam at January 27, 2009 2:17 PM

As for not liking a fireplace I'm mystified but I guess we all have our quirks. Considering appraisers give them a 10K value I hope I'm bidding againest one of you on my next purchase.

Posted by: DeLepp at January 27, 2009 2:18 PM

Schultz--I think you are right. This could be a really sweet little house. I still think they need to knock 2 or 3 hundred K off the ask though.

Posted by: wasder at January 27, 2009 2:18 PM

"Nothing says 'sex appeal' like your own house"

I assume that was tongue-in-cheek.

Posted by: dittoburg at January 27, 2009 2:20 PM

well fireplaces are dangerous and can start fires. i wouldnt want to live in attached houses with careless people with fireplaces. those things belong in vermont, not nyc. it's also hypocritical how "green (i hate that word and movement btw) people claim to be but have no problem tossing in trees left and right to warm their footsies.

*r*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at January 27, 2009 2:27 PM

Yeah, but the real players are down with OPP.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at January 27, 2009 2:28 PM

The bubble convinced everyone that $1 million dollars is nothing--chump change.

Posted by: bk14 at January 27, 2009 2:29 PM

Sam, I thought I explained my position on fireplaces pretty well -- if I'm never going to use something, why would I want it in my house?

I'm aware that many, perhaps most, people like them. I wouldn't get rid of one if my house had it, for that reason - it'd hurt the resale value.

But not having a fireplace makes a space slightly more appealing to me, since I could then use that wall space for something I will actually use.

Not that it matters, since my wife loves fireplaces. :)

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 27, 2009 2:31 PM

These days you can get fire logs made up of old coffee grinds so you don't need to worry about tossing in trees.

Posted by: DeLepp at January 27, 2009 2:36 PM

'Nothing says "sex appeal" like your own house. Especially an incredibly cool litle house like this one.'

Nothing says "sex less" like over paying for your own house. Especially an incredibly eensy weensy little house like this.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at January 27, 2009 2:36 PM

ew coffee grind fire logs? why would you want your house smelling like a starbucks!?

*r*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at January 27, 2009 2:40 PM

If you really don't know what makes fireplaces attractive then you've never had a nice fire in a fireplace or you're just a, well, never mind.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 27, 2009 2:41 PM

the mews houses in cobble hill go for less than that and while smaller (but wider!), they are zoned for ps29. I dont think this is worth the same/more as those.

Posted by: Ringo at January 27, 2009 2:42 PM

Especially an incredibly eensy weensy little house like this.

-spoken like a true Cadillac driver!

Ignore my advise if you wish, but this house would be a killer bachelor pad. The cuteness of it alone would turn most dates on and they would be putty in your hands by the time they got to the leaded-glass sash upstairs.

Posted by: sam at January 27, 2009 2:47 PM

I understand what makes fireplaces attractive to people. I'm not an idiot. They're just not attractive to *me*. Yeesh.

And I even said I liked this one! :)

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 27, 2009 2:48 PM

The rooms in a 12 foot wide house are only 12 feet wide if it has no party walls. It's more likely that these rooms are 9.5 or 10 feet wide max. So the only way this house is 2440sf over 4 floors is if it's 4 12x50 floor plates. Into which you are squeezing a center staircase. It would be like living in a stack of subway cars. The idea that you could probably pick up the mansion at 1094 park place for the same price makes the pricing on this preposterous.

Posted by: Frederick Law Homestead at January 27, 2009 2:49 PM

Just drove past this house. IT is pretty cool and the block is nice.

Posted by: wasder at January 27, 2009 2:52 PM

Fireplaces are sublime. Everyone should heat with wood. When trees are cut from a properly managed woodlot, wood is a very environmentally friendly source of fuel. Firewood is renewable and readily available. It has a low relative carbon footprint because wood smoke releases the same amount of carbon that would be released by the natural decomposition of the tree if it fell in the forest. Plus it smells great.

Posted by: Mitch at January 27, 2009 2:52 PM

Sam:

Bigger is Better
- spoken like a true woman who likes to drive a caddy.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at January 27, 2009 2:53 PM

BRG
You go girl!

Posted by: sam at January 27, 2009 3:00 PM

my my my....Sam knows slang!
He caught me, naughty me.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at January 27, 2009 3:03 PM

People who try to use their cutsie little house as a replacement for shortcomings in the bedroom are only fooling themselves.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 27, 2009 3:04 PM

DIBS,
My advise was geared to our younger readers, not to middle-aged don juans who already know every trick in the book.

Posted by: sam at January 27, 2009 3:19 PM

'not to middle-aged don juans who already know every trick in the book.'

Oh, Sam...now that's funny!!!!!

But I guess, some Don Juans don't know that this is overpriced and advice youngin's to buy it.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at January 27, 2009 3:22 PM

There's never any trickery involved, sam. But perhaps you're right. Maybe than can do a case study of this place for the "Homebuying for Hipsters" class.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 27, 2009 3:23 PM

Hey Middle Aged Don Juan (Sam):

Trickery and treachery are the practices of fools that have not the wits enough to be honest.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at January 27, 2009 3:27 PM

Apparently BRG has recently been tricked.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 27, 2009 3:28 PM

au contraire!!

Posted by: bayridgegirl at January 27, 2009 3:31 PM

When I wrote the word "trick" it was chosen carefully.

Posted by: sam at January 27, 2009 3:38 PM

I think it was "code" sam

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 27, 2009 3:40 PM

I think subtlety is lost on our hard-drivin' friend.
What was the trickery and treachery thing all about?
Definitely code.

Posted by: sam at January 27, 2009 3:45 PM

Sam, why you!!!

Since we're 'tagging' our posts. I'll admit my 3:31 was a private message to someone (nobody here).

Sorry, folks. Carry on.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at January 27, 2009 3:46 PM

btw, Sam...nothing is lost on your hard driving friend. I'm getting highly amused by your carefully chosen words, please continue.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at January 27, 2009 3:50 PM

QOTD has been awarded. It was a slow day.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 27, 2009 3:51 PM

"well fireplaces are dangerous and can start fires."

How exactly can a fireplace START a fire? Fireplaces are built specifically to ACCOMMODATE fire! Plus they look cool.

Posted by: East New York at January 27, 2009 3:53 PM

ENY, please refrain from engaging the loons.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 27, 2009 3:54 PM

well if you must know my real reason for hating fireplaces is because when i was 7 i fell down one and was stuck for 2 days before anyone figured it out! haha just kidding

Posted by: PitbullNYC at January 27, 2009 4:55 PM

I guess rob has never played with matches or cooked on a stove or lit a candle?

Posted by: bxgrl at January 27, 2009 4:58 PM

QOTD has been awarded. It was a slow day.

and that means.........?

Actually, I have never given sager advise on this site.
This little house is a chick/guy magnet. It's like a
friendly Golden Retriever without the shedding or the poop.

Posted by: sam at January 27, 2009 5:08 PM

"well if you must know my real reason for hating fireplaces is because when i was 7 i fell down one and was stuck for 2 days before anyone figured it out! haha just kidding"

If you say so, but I don't think you're kidding.

Posted by: East New York at January 27, 2009 5:16 PM

I actually do not think he is kidding either.

He was probably chubby and was stuck in there for hours until the firemen were able to pry him out sans his pants.

Posted by: sam at January 27, 2009 5:33 PM

Fireplaces are beautiful, but they can get in the way. For people who are living in small spaces, the space commitment may be too much.

Posted by: slick at January 27, 2009 5:41 PM

"sans his pants."

Or his ability to reason.

Posted by: East New York at January 27, 2009 5:46 PM

There IS a Santa Claus!! And he's a 16x2 year old gay guy living in Park Slope.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at January 27, 2009 6:05 PM

ENY, you are killing me. Thank you.

CWB: Did you ever see that house on Hancock? Opinion?

Posted by: Miss Chiff at January 27, 2009 6:33 PM

Group award. SOTD to everyone today.

Posted by: mopar at January 27, 2009 6:35 PM

As if.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at January 27, 2009 7:08 PM

« Co-op of the Day: 420 12th Street 2BR Streetlevel: Prime Meats on the Outside »

January 27, 2009

House of the Day: 177 St. James Place

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