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January 7, 2009

House of the Day: 404 Hancock Street

When we included 404 Hancock Street in a batch of Open House Picks in late July, it had just hit the market with an asking price of $1,200,000; now, six months later, the three-family brownstone is looking to fetch $990,000. The house has undergone a renovation which, while a little glossy and Home Depot-esque in terms of fixtures, looks to have been fairly comprehensive (at least for the completed portions—the listing alludes to the renovation not being finished yet). We suspect the price has further to fall. At this point, it's going to take a special house to fetch a million bucks in this part of town and, while it has some very nice woodwork, it feels like some charm was lost in the renovation.
404 Hancock Street [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark
Open House Picks 7/25/08 [Brownstoner]

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I have a very reliable source but I think this house is about to go into contract.

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 7, 2009 1:35 PM

What? Corcoran without a floor plan? That kitchen is a bit bland for my tastes, but if that's just one of the rentals, no problem. I'd like to see the owner's duplex or at least a rendering of what it will look like when finished.

Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at January 7, 2009 1:36 PM

I'm not sure what state this building is going to be delivered. If all the units come finished like this one then this is starting to look very attractive at $900,000 or $236 psf for a fully renovated building.

Those units will fetch $1,500 per month in Bed Stuy...YES THEY WILL cornerbodega....That's $54,000 or a gross yield of 6.0%...5.0% net after about $9,000 in taxes, ins & utilities.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 7, 2009 1:38 PM

Seems a little crazy. You can buy a brownstone closer to the subway that this, on a landmarked block, and fully renovate it, and still end up paying less than $990k ...

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 7, 2009 1:39 PM

I have been in this house and that is that rental kitchen in the photo the owners duplex is not finished yet.

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 7, 2009 1:39 PM

I just came across this listing and realize it's a ton smaller than the house on Hancock, but interesting to see what you can get for the same price in other neighborhoods.

This is I guess what you'd call Greenwood Heights. I think it looks great, personally. Looks cozy.

http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1462494&ohDat=1/11/2009%2012:00:00%20AM;

Posted by: 11217 at January 7, 2009 1:47 PM

cwbueecheler.. I don't think there are too many renovated brownstones this size in BS that are closer to the train that are cheaper than this one. Hancock is one of "those" Brooklyn streets that gives a little prestige especially in Bedford Stuyvesant. This house we be part of the Stuyvesant Heights extension landmark block. I think the house should be in the the 800s but this is a three family bringing in $3000-3400 a month.

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 7, 2009 1:49 PM

Amzi - I'm not saying there are renovated brownstones that are cheaper than this. I'm saying there are *unrenovated* ones that could be purchased and renovated for a combined price that's cheaper than this. IE: $450-600k for the brownstone, $200k-ish for the reno, total of $650-800k.

If someone's looking for an investment property that's ready to roll, this one probably isn't a bad choice. I didn't realize at the time I wrote my comment above that it was a 3-family. Thought it was just a one-family, Triplex-over-1 configuration.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 7, 2009 1:54 PM

LOVE that house 11217

Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at January 7, 2009 1:55 PM

11217 - Wow, I hate the exterior but the rest of that house is gorgeous. Really nice interior work.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 7, 2009 1:56 PM

cw....that reno job will cost you far more than $200k which is why I think this one is starting to look reasonable.

Besides, do you have any idea how long it takes now to get an architect and then get all the permits in place??? Carrying costs!!!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 7, 2009 1:57 PM

11217 Hancock has homes of all different sizes some of the biggest browntones in Brooklyn are on Hancock like the "Queen of Hancock" btw Marcy and Tompkins featured on here a few years ago: http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2005/04/the_queen_of_ha.php
or Montrose Morris house across the street: http://www.nyc-architecture.com/BES/BED013-232HancockSt.htm
Hancock was Montrose Morris country so many of the brownstones are grand and styles are so different.

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 7, 2009 1:59 PM

Amzi...I've generally always been in agreement with what you post. however, today I have to take offfense at the use of language in one sentence...

"This house we be part of the Stuyvesant Heights extension landmark block"

I think ebonics is not a good example to set for kids anymore!!!!

:) :) :) :)

At least I'm reading your posts closely!!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 7, 2009 2:01 PM

Amzi....if you're still speaking to me after my snarky comment would you please post the "Queen of hancock" url again. The one you posted originally was cut off.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 7, 2009 2:03 PM

Dave us architects have time now hahahaha.. There are eight on my block in Bedford Stuyvesant alone and many others in the neighborhood..

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 7, 2009 2:04 PM

$210,000 drop since July? What's that about $40,000 per month? Guess this will be within the range of reality in another 6 months. As for the 19th Street place 11217 likes, saw it and passed. Wouldn't even be tempted at $875,000.

Posted by: househunt at January 7, 2009 2:08 PM

I don't take offense too easy Dave.... Posting and working at the same time on here I have not mastered yet.... Your name comes up often at our landmark meetings we like you in the hood..

Queen of Hancock:
http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2005/04/the_queen_of_ha.php
BedStuy Architecture:
http://www.nyc-architecture.com/BES/BedStuy.htm

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 7, 2009 2:09 PM

DIBS - I'll bow to your knowledge on the reno costs. It didn't look like a particularly high-level renovation job to me, but it's not an area I have a ton of expertise in.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 7, 2009 2:09 PM

Note that 990 is the "completed" price. I suspect the "as is" price is whatever you can come up with in cash. So if one unit is finished, you could get into it for, say, 700k, then finish it yourself or just wait awile.

Personally, I like this house. As an odd comp, we have acquaintences who bought a brownstone on W. 122nd st. in harlem around 2000. For a total of about 1 mil including purchase price, they gut renovated into owner's duplex, and 2 br floor throughs on 3rd and 4th floor. They were asking 1600/mo in early 2003 when they finished the reno.

So prime Harlem in 2003 = Bed Stuy in 2009? I think B/S still has a ways to go down, unfortunately.

Posted by: Bolder at January 7, 2009 2:12 PM

The owners duplex is not finished yet. All of the photos online are the rentals

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 7, 2009 2:16 PM

Bolder...when I bought my place in Bed Stuy in 2007 the market in harlem was certainly way above those levels. Entry point was $1MM and you got, at best, a gutted building on a not-so-great Street. Harlem did very well from 1995 to 2007.

So too did Bed Stuy but you could still get a fully renovated house with all the architectural details for well under $900k.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 7, 2009 2:22 PM

Nice house. For the same price--say 850K--I'd go for the one on 19th street.

Posted by: shillstoner at January 7, 2009 2:24 PM

Those are nice rentals, but $1500 each for one bedrooms? Really?

We're sticking with the Adams Family look and leaks at half the price.

Posted by: mopar at January 7, 2009 2:29 PM

You guys should check out this August 6 1893 article about Hancock Street from the Brooklyn Eagle :
http://eagle.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=QkVHLzE4OTMvMDgvMDYjQXIwMDUwMQ==&Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom

It tells a bit who these houses were built for...

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 7, 2009 2:32 PM

mopar...what's the verdict on the termite damage to the joists?

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 7, 2009 2:41 PM

With reference to the Brooklyn Eagle article references above, mention is made of one of the Hancock houses selling for $33,000 in 1893. Using http://www.measuringworth.com/ppowerus/?redirurl=calculators/ppowerus/
to calculate have much that is in today's (actually 2007's) dollars you get $785,000. I find it interesting that the result definitely does not suggest that property is currently as overvalued in historical terms as many of the doomsayers on this blog suggest.

Posted by: johnife at January 7, 2009 2:51 PM

funny thing jonife most houses in "prime" area of Bedford Stuyvesant in 2007 was at that price.

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 7, 2009 2:57 PM

Dave, my point was that harlem prices 5-7 years ago were comparable to Bed Stuy right now (or at least pre lehman). it was just a point of reference.

I doubt there are more than a few dozen unrenovated brownstones in harlem with a clear title that you could buy, most probably around 1.5 mil for essentially a shell. Don't know what renovated ones go for but I'd bet over 2.5 mil.

for the record I'd hate to see b/s become what west and central harlem is now: all condos and gut renovated brownstones, with no clue as to the area's rich history as the center of the city's black social life. it really isn't a pleasant neighborhood to live in, for natives and newcomers alike. It would probably be a good thing in the long run for b/s if brownstones fell below 500k for a while. would keep some income diversity and perhaps encourage more renovation...i'd surely be tempted at that price.

Posted by: Bolder at January 7, 2009 3:12 PM

Right Bolder. I think I was pretty much in agreement with your observation. maybe I phrased it wrong.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 7, 2009 3:14 PM

I like the Block as well as the house, the price is a little too high for a this type of house in the Stuy. There are some special houses in the area that do deserve every penny asked for it, but this is one is not it.

I'm currently under contract for a special 3-Fam house on Macdonough for $750k, it needs some work but has all original details. I want the house badly, but I don't know if I'll be making a mistake the way these house prices are dropping. I guess I'll roll the dice with the bank. We'll see if the bank gives me the loan.

Posted by: Crooklyn at January 7, 2009 3:30 PM

I don't think you are going to have many people in BS putting there houses on the market for under 500K anytime soon. If anything they well just sit and wait until the market returns. Inventory of houses south of Madison is down.
Bedford Stuyvesant and Harlem have always mirrored each other since the Dutch arrived. Both area started out rural with a few county homes then by 1880/90s upper middle class people started moving in building all the brownstones and apartments. By the 1920 and 30 you started getting the wave of African Americans. In the 1970-1980s both areas probably hit there lowest point. From 1990- until today both areas are on the upswing. Harlem is always a few years ahead of Bedford Stuyvesant but it seems that whatever happens in Harlem the same thing will happens in BS. Maybe it is a A train thing... Right now Bedford Stuyvesant dose not have any 4 million dollar brownstones like Harlem. I really hope that is a long time down the road.

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 7, 2009 3:44 PM

11217, a lot of Wolf stoves cropping up around GH! lol.

Posted by: denton at January 7, 2009 3:45 PM

I think you got a great deal Crooklyn.. Welcome to the neighborhood... I am on the same street

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 7, 2009 3:46 PM

Amzi, thanks for the link to that very interesting Hancock Street article. What's also interesting is that in 1893, out past Stuyvesant, the area was still frame houses and empty lots and unpaved street.

My mother and I looked at the "Queen", the Kelley House, before the current owner bought it. At the time, around 1983, it was for sale at $200K, which was well above everything else in the area. Houses on my block, right behind it, were going for around $85 to 100K. It had gorgeous bones, a center hallway and stairwell with twin rooms on both sides. It was also a mess, and needed a lot of work. The basement had a full bar, and the backyard was a jungle. A lot has been done since then. I wish they hadn't bumped out the bay in the back, but oh well.

I've also been in the corner Montrose Morris "villa". Most of the detail was lost long ago in a fire. The present (I think) owners made a two story great room in the front parlor, which was interesting. They also had that great extension for kitchen space, with the attached garage. Unfortunately, I think they spend a great deal of money trying to keep grafitti off of the side walls. You are right, my namesake was busy on that block. At least 5 or 6 buildings all together.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at January 7, 2009 3:47 PM

Good luck Crooklyn. Hope I run into you after you close.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 7, 2009 3:48 PM

This Montrose Morris house is going to come on the market soon the 98 year owner just passed away a month ago and the kids all live out of state. It is such a nice home but it really need so much work. Still has much of the original deals:
http://www.nyc-architecture.com/BES/BED015-246-252Hancock%20St.htm

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 7, 2009 3:53 PM

Montrose the current owner of the Queen of Hancock told me that she had a problem with comps back then in the 1980s. That house did not have much in North Brooklyn to compare...

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 7, 2009 4:06 PM

Which one in the group, Amzi? I've been in one, and it was amazing. Hope to see it. I've also been in twp of the ones in the group next to it going towards Marcy. These are all amazing houses.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at January 7, 2009 4:25 PM

It is the last one in the group 252 Hancock is the house with the owner that died. That places needs a lot of work. I have a very close friend that lives in 250 next door and she is the one that told me about this place.

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 7, 2009 4:45 PM

damn - and i thought amzi lived in clinton hill!

Posted by: dinobot at January 7, 2009 5:07 PM

my bad - confused with the other dude. amzi is the cabbie story dude who considers ft greene and ch and bed sty as one.

cute house but i think a tad too high - prob 800-850 does it but "not finished" leads to many questions. they prob will start cutting corners if someone engages them.

good luck all.

Posted by: dinobot at January 7, 2009 5:13 PM

Yeah man all one Brooklyn

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 7, 2009 5:17 PM

Thanks Guys. I'm really looking forward to joining the community. I really love Brooklyn.

Posted by: Crooklyn at January 7, 2009 5:44 PM

Crooklyn you are going to love the street.. I know my block as well as the ones further east of me have a real strong community feel. When you go on vacation for a few days they get worried. If you forget to move your car for 9 am street cleaning someone will knock on your door at 8:58 am. The older residence of MacDonough (40+ years )are the best they become like family, really supportive... My neighbors have help me find everything from great plasterers that have restored my ceilings to the days of 1889 to directing me to the local hardware store to find the wick to go on my gas lamp outside. your going to love walking down the streets and looking at the great homes and churches.. Welcome to the neighborhood.

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 7, 2009 6:01 PM

Amzi:

Thank You, I've yet to close, but I can't wait. The neighbors have already been very supportive. The block (bet Throop & Tompkins) has to be one of the most architecturally amazing blocks in Brooklyn. Hope everything goes well.

Posted by: Crooklyn at January 7, 2009 6:08 PM

That is my block Crooklyn. I hope that your getting the house across the street from me it has been empty since I came to the area a year and a half ago...

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 7, 2009 6:25 PM

In the future this will certainly be one those topics in which people reminisce over a few beers, "Remember people paying a mil for bed stuy?" Laughter erupts hahahahaha, Cheers

Posted by: cornerbodega at January 7, 2009 9:29 PM

Whoohoo, love this info about houses coming on the market and the Eagle article, Amzi. DIBS, it appears the termite damage is probably localized/not too extensive, we told the agent today we're buying it. Alternating feelings of jubilation/terror.

Posted by: mopar at January 7, 2009 10:32 PM

Whoever was wondering about rents in Bed-Stuy should look on Craigslist--a floorthru in a brownstone on a good block gets 1500, easily. And a floorthru in a brownstone is a 1-1.5-bedroom.

Posted by: rf at January 7, 2009 11:46 PM

The wording on the listing is deceptive--construction has stopped on this property mid-way through the renovation. Rentals have been completed but walls aren't even closed in the owner's duplex. The price, according to the listing agent, reflects the reno in its current, unfinished state--hence the size of the price reduction. The original asking price assumed a totally finished project.

Crooklyn, welcome to the neighborhood. What a beautiful block.

Amzi, would love to know more about the status of the landmark extension. Where and when are these meetings held?

Posted by: housebywe at January 8, 2009 12:45 AM

BTW: Ditto on the $1500/floorthru motions being made for all the blocks so far mentioned in this area.

Posted by: housebywe at January 8, 2009 12:47 AM

Congratulations, mopar.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 8, 2009 8:05 AM

Housebywe,

I think you're misreading the listing. It says, "The posted price is that of a completed project, if you would like to alter the architectural drawings or purchase the building as is, we will negotiate that". I think the only way to interpret that is that if you pay the $990,000 the owner will turn over a building finished in accordance with the plans but if you don't want him to finish the work a lower price would be negotiated.

Posted by: johnife at January 8, 2009 9:44 AM

Landmark meeting is this Monday the 12th 6:30 pm at Restoration Plaza at . We are doing Bedford Corners (or Village), Stuyvesant Heights Ext, Alice Court area and the Sumner Amory.

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 8, 2009 12:08 PM

Amzi:

Actually the house is not empty, but the owner is very old and she no longer can maintain this big house by herself. Hopefully we can meet once I close. Thank you

Posted by: Crooklyn at January 8, 2009 12:14 PM

I would like that Crooklyn... I think you might be on my side of the street a lot of sweet older ladies. I hope things work out for you, I know they will you seem like you will be a great addition to the block... I just hope someone will buy 119 MacDonough that house has had no love and seems to be very nice...

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 8, 2009 12:55 PM

Johnife-info I'm conveying is from the broker directly. That's why I'm implying that the listing text is misleading. Of course, it's been on the market a while so I'm sure alot is "negotiable".

Amzi-thanks. See you there.

Posted by: housebywe at January 8, 2009 2:40 PM

Amzi, what's the skinny on 119 Macdonough? Is it for sale? Do you know the owner?

Posted by: housebywe at January 8, 2009 4:08 PM

Amzi:

I love 119 Macdonough, but I don't think its for sale. I actually wanted to buy one of those Italianesque style houses across the street instead of the Queen anne style house I'm purchasing, but there are none for sale on that block. They are 21" wide, sit on a 146 Foot lot and have a front yard. Their details inside are a lot better since they were built first. They have marble fireplaces and better plaster detail. In the Bed Stuy house tour Griffin had the best house to show by far.

Posted by: Crooklyn at January 8, 2009 4:14 PM

I have hear two stories about 119 one is that it is in foreclosure and that is a husband and wife divorce deal. Then I have heard that siblings are fighting but also in foreclosure . the houses on this side are large with the nice front yards and 6" taller parlor floor. They were built around 1872 and are the oldest brownstones in Stuyvesant Heights historic district. The yards really help make the street look grand. I also have a Queen Anne style house which I really wanted and after living in north slope fell in love with streets St.Johns - 1st Queen Anne brownstones. I have had my share of front yard life growing up in suburbia but it is nice to look at Mr Griffin yard especially in the spring everyday. I think Macon St in this area is the only other street with large yards...

Posted by: Amzi Hill at January 8, 2009 6:03 PM

Amzi:
It'll be a shame if that family loses that house over a dispute. Also its very hard to buy in this block. Its like a secret bed stuy code of honor if you can buy here, trust me i've been through a lot just to be considered worthy of buying here. The houses here rarely go on the market and when something is sold is done very quiet. I hope they can settle their differences and be an asset to the community. I love the house though, if I had a chance to buy across the street I think i would sale a kidney thats how much I love those houses.

Posted by: Crooklyn at January 8, 2009 10:11 PM

« Co-op of the Day: 95 Wyckoff Street 924 Met: Why Not Take All of Me? »

January 7, 2009

House of the Day: 404 Hancock Street

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