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January 15, 2009

Co-ops of the Day: 135 Willow Street Triple-Shot

The 1950s co-op building at 135 Willow Street in Brooklyn Heights currently has three apartments on the market. There's a 10th floor two-bedroom asking $795,000, a ninth-floor one-bedroom for $560,000 and a third-floor studio for $299,000. All three have open houses scheduled this weekend. How's this building? We've never been inside.
135 Willow Street Listings [StreetEasy] GMAP P*Shark

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That one bedroom looks like a very good deal for Brooklyn Heights. good sized apt and nice layout. That would appear to be a good piece of evidence towards continuing price drops, even in prime neighborhoods.

Posted by: wasder at January 15, 2009 12:47 PM

nice enough building. nothing charming, typical post-war blah. but nicely maintained, workable layouts, and perfect location imo. be warned: the wait list for parking is loooooooooooong. like decades long.

Posted by: Ringo at January 15, 2009 12:50 PM

I'm not sure how great a deal the 1 bedroom is considering the $1071 a month maintenance. That's how much my mortgage payment is. Granted my place is smaller, but still...

I find the building very unappealing looking.

Posted by: 11217 at January 15, 2009 12:57 PM

Yeah, its not a great looking building 11217, you are right about that. And yes that maintenance looks daunting, but still for brooklyn heights I think this qualifies as a good deal.

Posted by: wasder at January 15, 2009 12:59 PM

I think the layouts are pretty interesting, actually - esp the 2-bedroom. It's a great location. 2-bed, 2-bath in that nabe is a pretty good deal, I think.

Posted by: katiebk at January 15, 2009 1:14 PM

We looked at a 1-bed in this building, on a lower floor, about two years ago. The building is blah, blah, blah. At the time the unit was going for over $600K (I think that it sold for less than that), with maintenance of over $1,000.

Posted by: BrooklynButler at January 15, 2009 1:31 PM

I struggle with the maintenance of not just this coop, but so many of the BH ones featured recently. There just does not seem to be the level of amenities to support the cost. I've seen so many UES coop with this kind of maintenance per square foot that featured more. I would expect to at least have a fitness center available and possibly more.

Posted by: Ozymandius at January 15, 2009 1:36 PM

The metrics on the maint/cc of co-ops in the Heights never makes sense; when are used to seeing $1-1.25 psf, $1.50 and up seems outrageous.

This has been touched on before here...one explaination/theory was so many of the buildings have bad financials. That doesn't quite explain why it is pervasive. Anyone else want to take a stab at educating the Brownstoner masses?

Posted by: BoerumHill at January 15, 2009 1:49 PM

It seems to me the rule of thumb for maintenance was $1psf ten years ago. Clearly, that number would increase over the years. Real estate taxes, water rates, heating costs, union (doorman, super, etc) salaries are all up double digits since the late 1990s. I'm not sure why people's expectations haven't changed. Shouldn't routine maintenance run $1.25 psf now? Or more? Of course, some buildings will always be lower due to underlying mortgage or lack thereof.

Posted by: Ringo at January 15, 2009 1:58 PM

Maintenance on my co-op just went up this year due to the re-assessment of building values that happened in 2008, along with a J-51 abatement expiring. 23% increase! It's still under $1/sf, but it's a big jump.

Not that that explains why BH maintenance is more expensive than other areas of Brooklyn, but I'd be interested to know if the maintenance here or in other co-ops increased recently because of taxes.

Did everyone get big tax increases in 2008 or just co-ops?

Posted by: kimmc at January 15, 2009 2:12 PM

I thought 1.25 is standard for non-doorman and 1.50 is for full-service.

Also, according to the little magazines I get as a board member of our building, most everyone is having to raise maintenance this year due to 7% tax hike (among other things) so if you're looking these days ask if monthlies have been raised recently. If not, expect a hike shortly.

Posted by: Ringo at January 15, 2009 2:17 PM

High maintenance in many of the buildings in the area is due to: 1)They were converted by developers (from rentals or other uses) in the 80s and shareholders were left with big, exepensive mortgages. It takes time to work those down. 2) They are relativley small --not that many units over which to spread the costs of live-in super (required), porters, door or security staff. 3) Tax abatements, if there were any, have expired and coops pay more than single-family homes in terms of real estate tax burden.

Posted by: BH76 at January 15, 2009 2:30 PM

Berenice Abbott took beautiful photos of the old houses on Willow Street that were demolished to make way for this boring Truman-era pile.

Posted by: sam at January 15, 2009 2:34 PM

sam, I've also wondered what the East side of Henry between Remsen and Joralemon looked like before the boxy apartments went up there. Any idea how to find out?

Posted by: Biff Champion at January 15, 2009 2:44 PM

Biff, I have seen vintage photos of the Joralemon/Henry corner where the ugly brick box is now. In the 1930's it was an open lot with public tennis courts.
The municipal archives, in Manhattan, across from the muni building, has microfilm of the Great Depression era photos taken by the NYC tax department.

Brooklyn Heights did not look so hot then.
A lot of boarded up and abandoned houses beleve it or not.

Posted by: sam at January 15, 2009 2:58 PM

Interesting. Thanks sam. I've been wondering about that block for a long time, wondering (hoping) they didn't destroy some gorgeous buildings (such as the one on the SW corner of Henry and Joralemon) to build those boxes. I would love to see some of those old photos.

Posted by: Biff Champion at January 15, 2009 3:04 PM

I really like that 2 br. I don't think the maint. is too out of line, assuming they've kept up with recent increase in taxes and heating oil (if they haven't regularly raised it a few percentage points every year, that's a big red flag to me). BH maint. is equal to corresponding buildings in Manhattan; the only difference is you're paying less. On the UWS or UES this is at least a 900k apt., even now. And a year ago it was over 1mm.

Posted by: Bolder at January 15, 2009 3:08 PM

i disagree with bh76.
the reason that maintenance costs tend to be a little higher in Brooklyn Heights is because real estate taxes are higher in the Heights. Underlying mortgages can be a cause as well but keep in mind that generally speaking those mortgages are associated with capital improvements undertaken on the building prior to conversion and also to some extent after conversion. Instead of socking the shareholders with a high assessment to replace the roof for instance, many co-op take out LOC (lines of credit) or second mortgages. when the main mortgage is re-financed, these costs are folded in to it. Mortgage interest is tax deductable so assuming you pay your taxes, a big question is how much of the maint. is tax deductable. co-ops can be complex, and their finances as involved as any corporation. Buildings like this one in the Heights have no problem, the little walkups in who-knows-where are the problem in times like these.

Posted by: sam at January 15, 2009 3:13 PM

Here's a link to a B. Abbott photo of the houses on Willow Street that were torn down to make way for this building:

http://tinyurl.com/a35mma

Posted by: NorthHeights at January 15, 2009 3:21 PM

(Thanks, Sam, for the pointer re: the photo)

Posted by: NorthHeights at January 15, 2009 3:22 PM

Sam: We have no disagreement. However, what many people do not understand is the buildings cannot re-fi as easily as homeowners. And yes, many buildings have refied at higher rates to cover cpaital improvements.

Posted by: BH76 at January 15, 2009 3:34 PM

BH76, very true, people do not understand that co-ops can not refi like home owners. That is why coops use LOC's and second mortgages instead. Generally, coop mortgages tend to be 30-year amortization with a 10 or 15 year term, meaning that at the end of the term, you need to refinance in order to pay the "balloon balance" It is a system that works remarkably well by and large. What people sometimes forget is that in addition to the mortgage interest, real estate taxes included in the maintenance are also tax-deductable. For the typical high-earner in Brooklyn Heights, the deductability of a large portion of their maintenance is golden.

Posted by: sam at January 15, 2009 3:45 PM

NorthHeights, great link. Thanks.

Posted by: Biff Champion at January 15, 2009 4:25 PM

You don't need to see the inside. Some places, you just need to see the outside and conclude with certainty that its a piece of crap. This is a piece of doo doo..

Posted by: cornerbodega at January 15, 2009 4:49 PM

Thanks bh76 and sam, appreciate the insight.

Posted by: BoerumHill at January 15, 2009 5:07 PM

« Inside Third & Bond: Week 67 House of the Day: 403 East 19th Street »

January 15, 2009

Co-ops of the Day: 135 Willow Street Triple-Shot

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