« City Secures Rest of Willoughby Square Park Properties House of the Day: 370 Clinton Street »

January 29, 2009

Co-op of the Day: 30 Ocean Parkway 2 BR

As we've noted before, we think the art deco building at 30 Ocean Parkway in Windsor Terrace has a very nice feel, which is probably why we've already featured a couple of units as co-ops of the day in the past. Make that three times now: Today we've got another two-bedroom on tap. This one, which just hit the market, weighs in at 1,000 square feet and has all the pre-war trappings you would expect. The asking price is $525,000, a bit lower than a similar one last summer but not dramatically so.
30 Ocean Parkway 2BR [Aguayo & Huebener] GMAP P*Shark
Co-op of the Day: 30 Ocean Parkway 6/08 [Brownstoner]
Co-op of the Day: 30 Ocean Parkway 7/07 [Brownstoner]

Trackback Pings

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.brownstoner.com/mte/mt-tb.cgi/8160

Comments

Nice lookin' place. Needs more floorplan. And probably a price reduction. Still, it's one of the better condos I've seen in the 500-ish range, lately.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 29, 2009 12:47 PM

How much is maintenance?

Posted by: curiositykilledthecat at January 29, 2009 12:53 PM

$897/month

Side note - is it wrong of me that I find co-ops really unappealing? You don't really own the space, just shares in the building that entitle you to live in it, correct? So you can't make any changes, other than painting, without board approval, and all that crap?

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 29, 2009 12:55 PM

At $897, the maintenance is a little high for a non-doorman building. But having looked at a couple of units here, I can say that it appears to be a very well maintained building.

I think in general the prices in this place are a little high, given the somewhat cut-off nature of that lower part of Windsor Terrace.

You might as well go one more subway stop out, and make the leap to Kensington. You'll get the same sort of apartment for about $150k less, and be closer to a greater number of basic amenities.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at January 29, 2009 12:59 PM

is it wrong of me that I find co-ops really unappealing? You don't really own the space, just shares in the building that entitle you to live in it, correct?

cwb--in my estimation this is more a psychological barrier than anything real. It takes a little getting used to conceptually but I think we have seen over the last months that a well run coop does better in a down market than a condo.

Posted by: wasder at January 29, 2009 1:02 PM

wasder - i think that makes no sense. in what way? at least you can rent out your condo. coops are ridiculous.

Posted by: wine lover at January 29, 2009 1:08 PM

The aparments in that building are nice, and being so near the park and tennis center is great, and there's a library on the other side of the expressway. But there's no parking and it's a good six or seven blocks to Key Food. And of course the F train sucks.

Posted by: Sparafucile at January 29, 2009 1:13 PM

Or you could go a little farther down Ocean Parkway and get this much nicer looking 2 bedroom (in my opinion) for 225K less.

With $565 maint and 10% down.

http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1488722

Posted by: 11217 at January 29, 2009 1:15 PM

"wasder - i think that makes no sense. in what way? at least you can rent out your condo. coops are ridiculous."

winelover--I am talking about resale value in a tough market like this one. While new condos are struggling to fill their apartments, going rental, upping their common charges (see today's One Hanson post) established coops are much more stable. This is what I am talking about. Yes it is a drag that most co-ops restrict how long you can sublet for, but what I am talking about is how sellable they are in tough markets. I found out this fall when my coop sold in two weeks when lots of condos were sitting on the market. Of course this is anecdotal info but it is common sense to extrapolate that a long standing coop with close to 100% owner occupancy is a safer, more stable investment than a condo (especially newish condos).

Posted by: wasder at January 29, 2009 1:21 PM

Wine lover:

I don't want to get into a debate about condo's vs. co-ops as each have their pluses and minuses and the debate has been had before. I would like to note 2 things though.

1. I live in a co-op and we are allowed to rent.

2. The very thing you are using as an example (renting) is the one HUGE thing I don't like about condos. Some of these condo buildings my friends live in are turning into very transient glorified dorms with no rules and regulations whatsoever on who rents and how often.

And none of this is taking into consideration that co-ops were much more concerned of the status of finances of it's incoming buyers, and therefore are much less susceptible to mortgage defaults, etc.

You love condos now. Wait 10 years when the common areas have gone to shit, 90% of the people are renting and you have zero control over anything outside your walls.

Posted by: 11217 at January 29, 2009 1:21 PM

11217--as always you say what I want to say better. Nicely done.

Posted by: wasder at January 29, 2009 1:25 PM

Coop ownership while a pain in the ass in some ways, also offers a certain element of safety in a community environment that you wouldn't have with a condo, both personally and property wise.

Also a good portion of the maintenance is tax deductible. Closing costs on condos are much higher then for coops, and condos are subject to NY State mortgage tax because they are considered personal property rather than real property.

Posted by: Nokilissa at January 29, 2009 1:26 PM

We looked at a very similar apartment in that building in 2003, the asking was 495,000. So, this price seems reasonable in light of that. Maintenance was about the same then too, if I remember right.

Posted by: WTbound at January 29, 2009 1:27 PM

11217 - That 2 BR you linked is nice. I don't think it's quite as nice as the co-op of the day, but for 225 less it's super appealing. Only issue is that I think it's just a bit too far from Manhattan, to which I have to commute at least three days a week, and where my wife will likely have to commute daily once she finds a job.

all - Thanks for the thoughts on condos vs. co-ops. Still learning the differences, but I can see the value in both. I don't personally have any need to rent my space out, so that probably won't be a big concern.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 29, 2009 1:28 PM

some people like condos because they think they will be able to do as they please with the unit and be able to rent it out whenever they like to the highest bidder.

other people like co-ops becuase they know that the kind of people described above will not be allowed to buy in the building.

Posted by: sam at January 29, 2009 1:29 PM

co-op and condos are both surrenders.

Posted by: dittoburg at January 29, 2009 1:30 PM

Wasder, I think you are quite eloquent.

The whole notion of co-ops is a uniquely New York thing. They do have them in other places like DC, but in a city of 8.3 million people, where we are all living on top of each other and in small spaces, it's nice to know that you have some element of control on what is a very transient population.

I would not buy a condo here in NYC. Especially a new one.

I think wasder is correct also in that new condos are going to see significantly higher price drops than established pre-war co-ops. Condos were built like crazy in NYC over the past 10 years to FEED the bubble. Without condos, I doubt NYC would even feel much of the effects of the bubble, as 75% of our housing are co-ops.

It might have been a pain that I had to show that I had 1 full year's worth of mortgage payments after my down payment, but you know what...? At least I don't have to worry about foreclosing on my home now, with that kind of co-op "nest egg" in place.

Posted by: 11217 at January 29, 2009 1:31 PM

"Without condos, I doubt NYC would even feel much of the effects of the bubble, as 75% of our housing are co-ops."

I have to clarify that I realize we have indeed had housing downturns in times when there were far less condos than we have now, but I believe some of the huge price gains over the past years have been fed by the huge pricetags of some of these condos. From what I can tell, co-op prices rose much more gradually than those of condos.

Posted by: 11217 at January 29, 2009 1:36 PM

Is 30 Ocean Pkwy really Windsor Terrace?

Posted by: BobfromBklyn at January 29, 2009 1:36 PM

"Wasder, I think you are quite eloquent." Thanks friend!

Posted by: wasder at January 29, 2009 1:40 PM

> "co-op and condos are both surrenders."

Please explain.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at January 29, 2009 1:41 PM

"That 2 BR you linked is nice. I don't think it's quite as nice as the co-op of the day, but for 225 less it's super appealing. Only issue is that I think it's just a bit too far from Manhattan, to which I have to commute at least three days a week, and where my wife will likely have to commute daily once she finds a job."

For the price difference, you can hire a car and driver!

Kidding.

Kinda.

Posted by: 11217 at January 29, 2009 1:42 PM

11217 -

Haha yeh, you're not entirely incorrect. We could swing that co-op you linked on my income alone, let alone what we make when both employed. I must admit that it's appealing to own without also bankrupting ourselves in the process. :P

Perhaps we'll investigate Kensington a bit. We have friends who live there and manage the commute.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 29, 2009 1:45 PM

"Only issue is that I think it's just a bit too far from Manhattan"

It is quite a schlep from there. You might look into Ditmas Park along the Q line. That's a much quicker ride into the City.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at January 29, 2009 1:45 PM

Agree that something along the Q would be more ideal.

Hate to see you have to leave Park Dope though, CW.

Maybe those Lincoln Place Brothel pads will be down to your price range by next year...

Posted by: 11217 at January 29, 2009 1:52 PM

Coops may do better in a down market is true - as long as you are not trying to sell. Reselling a coop can be tough in ordinary times, but especially in a stagnant or falling market. Boards can be "overly" obsessed with comps and ding a lot of deals they feel will hurt other sellers (themselves). That's great for people who plan to stay for a while, or who don't need to sell. But don't be the person who needs to sell b/c even if you'd be willing to accept - to use the parlance of so many on this board - an aggressive offer, chances are your board won't.

Condo common charges in new buildings can be high - often b/c they have expensive amenities to maintain (pool, etc.) But coop common charges have also risen a lot lately. Check out the common charges in BK Hts - often outrageously high.

11217 - are you saying that absent the coop's requirement, you would not have managed your money/finances sufficiently well to avoid a foreclosure today? I don't need a coop's rules to be fiscally prudent.

Noklissa, I think you meant to say condos pay a mortgage tax b/c they are real property, not personal property.

Overall I think coops tend to survive b/c they are conservative in nature. They The arrangement works for a lot of folks - not for me though.

Posted by: LilBitOfLuck at January 29, 2009 2:02 PM

co-ops are not for everyone. Not at all. Any co-op board will tell you that, and some perhaps already have.

Posted by: sam at January 29, 2009 2:07 PM

"11217 - are you saying that absent the coop's requirement, you would not have managed your money/finances sufficiently well to avoid a foreclosure today? I don't need a coop's rules to be fiscally prudent."

No, I'm not saying that. I'm meticulous about my finances (have zero debt) and was told 2 weeks ago by my mortgage broker who is handling my refinance that I have the highest credit score he has ever seen.

I probably would have saved enough for 6 months or so, but 1 year's worth of mortgage payments is hefty. I like knowing it's there though, and actually home ownership has encouraged me to save more than I ever did as a renter, even though I'm paying more now than I did as a renter. For me, home ownership has only heightened my already diligent savings habit.

I doubt most condo owners have 2 months mortgage in savings, but maybe I'm wrong.

I do know that something like 70% of Americans over age 55 have less than $10,000 in savings (last I heard) so none of this would be surprising to me.

Posted by: 11217 at January 29, 2009 2:08 PM

And yes, Sam. I totally 100% agree that co-ops are not for everyone.

Absolutely.

Posted by: 11217 at January 29, 2009 2:09 PM

There are several established co-op buildings in Ditmas Park and vicinity that are easily accessible to the 'Q/B' line. Some of the buildings are pre-war and others buildings built in 1960's by Trump and Lefrak. I don't know what they go for price wise but Brooklyn Properties on Cortelyou Road specializes in co-op and condo's in Kensington and Ditmas Park. The owner, who is also an area resident, is very laid back and easy to work with. I know several people who purchased with her.

Posted by: Chaka at January 29, 2009 2:13 PM

"Coops may do better in a down market is true - as long as you are not trying to sell. Reselling a coop can be tough in ordinary times, but especially in a stagnant or falling market."

I can't statistically argue with what you are saying but I found my coop easy to sell. Board wasn't a problem because the sale price was among the highest recorded for the building. Don't know what would happen if I had to sell the same apt now but thank goodness I don't need to find out.

Posted by: wasder at January 29, 2009 2:33 PM

CWB- The listing 11217 linked is a bit far from the trains, but at that price it makes owning/maintaining a car less of a pinch and the parking in that area is much easier to find than Park Slope or where I live in PH, IMO. Also decent schools in the area. Good find, 11217! Except for those damn counter tops, GRR! ;)

Even though I'm not buying for a couple of years I quite obsessively scan the listings for Ditmas Park and Kensington as they are generally more generous in size for a much better price. Hopefully I'll find a perfect 2 bed near the Q someday.

Personally I am only looking at places that we can afford on one income alone, I guess I am wierdly conservative that way. It does allow the hubby to be a SAHD right now though, which totally rocks and works for us. It's pretty awesome coming home to dinner and a sleepy toddler! HAHA!

Posted by: ennuiater at January 29, 2009 2:41 PM

I'm confused about interest rates.

The Corcoran web site links to Manhattan Mortgage Finder, which continues to cite 6.5 as an interest rate.

Is that correct?

What are the current typical mortgage interest rates in New York? Do they vary depending on whether you're buying a co-op, condo or single family house?

Posted by: zuleika at January 29, 2009 3:00 PM

Staying on the Q/B would be awesome. We'd love to stay in North Slope but that just ain't gonna happen. There's no way we're going to get 1000 sq ft here for under $500k, and I'm not paying more than that for it. In fact, I'd really rather not pay more than about $350k for anything that's not a rowhouse. So, yeh ... North Slope? Not likely. :)

Our goal is to get the mortgage to a spot where we could afford it on one to one-and-a-half of our salaries, even though we both intend on working fulltime for the foreseeable future (during which we will hopefully continue to increase our yearly earnings). That way we'll have plenty of available cash for remodeling, investing, and safety savings. Also probably paying the mortgage off faster than 30 years, thus saving on interest.

Not to mention traveling, dining out, etc.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 29, 2009 3:31 PM

zuleika,
The link you're referring to is just a mortgage calculator that takes the asking price of the listing and some default loan terms (6.5% for 30 years) which you can change. Has nothing to do with market rates. Look around on places like bankrate.com or
http://www.us.hsbc.com/1/2/3/personal/home-loans/mortgage/mortgage-rates/

Rates are closer to 5% if you can get a loan.

Posted by: Bklnite at January 29, 2009 4:29 PM

cwbuecheler - Sounds like Ditmas Park will fit your bill. I suggest waiting to buy though. Everywhere I look out there, prices are only going down down down.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at January 29, 2009 4:47 PM

Again, I can't speak on the prices of co-ops or condos but the prices of houses haven't dropped much out here. There have been a couple of sales in the last two months of the more modest 5 bedroom homes with the more expensive 10 bedroom mansions not selling at all. I've heard that the co-ops have always been very reasonably priced and if that is so, prices may not drop much. It can't hurt to wait and see though because I don't think prices will rise. The new condo buildings in this area, like everywhere else in Brooklyn, are sitting vacant or going rental. Considering that we are only a 5 minute train ride from Park Slope, there are considerable ammenities in the area, the schools are good and getting better and there is plenty of parking, I think that you would get your money's worth with the purchase of a co-op, when you are ready.

Posted by: Chaka at January 29, 2009 5:21 PM

SnarkSlope - Yeah, we're still saving up our down payment, and we're not buying *anything* until MrsCWB has a job again. So it'll be a while yet. Hopefully prices will drop a bit during that time. :)

Chaka - thanks for the info. We'll definitely be checking out Ditmas Park, especially as the weather warms up and it starts being more enjoyable to walk around Brooklyn again!

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 29, 2009 5:29 PM

When I was a little kid I Iived in a similar looking building. All the neighbors were nice and friendly.

Now with the explosion of the hipster popularion, who knows?

Posted by: Ysabelle at January 29, 2009 5:50 PM

cwb - You sound very practically-minded. That's a good thing. I could of course be wrong, but I think time is now on our side. OK, time to log off before the martinis start talking.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at January 29, 2009 10:52 PM

So Snarky, I didn't realize we were both on team bear.

Posted by: dittoburg at January 30, 2009 8:25 AM

« City Secures Rest of Willoughby Square Park Properties House of the Day: 370 Clinton Street »

January 29, 2009

Co-op of the Day: 30 Ocean Parkway 2 BR

Trackback Pings

Comments

Post a comment

Latest Restaurant Additions