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January 20, 2009

Condos of the Day: 4 South Portland Avenue

It's hard to argue with the location of this brownstone condo conversion at 4 South Portland Avenue. Just steps from Fort Greene Park and located on the quintessential brownstone block, the five-unit project just hit the market at the beginning of the month with prices ranging from $700,000 for a 1,012-square-foot floor-through to $890,000 for a 1,543-square-foot duplex. We're not digging the kitchen cabinets (big mistake) but the bathroom looks okay if a bit glitzy and they've otherwise left well enough alone when it comes to crown moldings, fireplaces and the like.
4 South Portland Avenue Listings [StreetEasy] GMAP P*Shark

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Ahhh, South Portland. There's something about that street. It has a nice ring to it. Like a brand.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at January 20, 2009 1:04 PM

Jerry Minsky returns!!!!

For all the money they spent on that bathroom you'd think they'd put in a nice shower enclosure instead of the ugly, moldy curtain.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 1:14 PM

I'll be putting in an "ugly, moldy" curtain around my tub in my newly renovated bathroom b/c I have to bathe my kids and dammit if leaning over a metal track doesn't hurt your elbows and other sensitive body parts.

Posted by: tiptoe at January 20, 2009 1:17 PM

They should have spent more money on the kitchens and a lot less on the bathrooms (where do you spend most of your time?). Yes, those cabinets are a BIG mistake.

Posted by: Suburbandude at January 20, 2009 1:28 PM

It seems like brownstone conversions shouldn't be this expensive, or if they are, they should have absurdly expensive fixtures, which this one does not.

Posted by: Heather at January 20, 2009 1:55 PM

Also, this is a perfect example of the disconnect between rental prices and purchasing... what would these units rent for, $3K at the most? (And that's generous, I think.)

Posted by: Heather at January 20, 2009 1:59 PM

buyer beware, these are inflated square footages. Perhaps they are counting the common stair/hall?
These layouts are tight, and there is no sense in buying a two-bedroom with just one bath at this price. Plus its a walkup, plus its a condo, so who knows who will be coming and going from the other 3 apartments?
Way too expensive, the locaion cannot makeup for those shortcomings.
plus the facade has been messed up, the stoop and the cornice have been amputated.

Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 2:01 PM

I will be REALLY surprised to see these apartments go for the asking prices... this rings of early 2007 pricing as if nothing happened to the economy... kind of like the house that sits for $3.45M on S. Elliot around the corner (ha!). My guess is they will be on the rental market by spring.

1 bathroom? Those kitchen cabinets? Ugh.

Posted by: Gravy at January 20, 2009 2:32 PM

Those layouts may be "tight" but they're still all substantially larger than the 2BR pre-war that I currently rent in Park Slope for $2600/month. Granted, Park Slope's a pricier rental market.

The lack of at least a half bath is a problem though at this price, and yes, the kitchen cabinets are hideous. Don't care that it's a walkup, don't care that it's a condo (you're not getting a full building for $700k anywhere in this neighborhood). Don't really care about the facade either although I can see it being a problem for resale.

I agree they're way overpriced right now, but at $550k (a 20% drop that'll probably never happen), I'd start looking fairly seriously at the cheapest of the 2 BR's.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 20, 2009 2:53 PM

I wonder how these sorts of conversions are even legal. There is only means of ingress/egress. One stair (probably wood) and no fire escapes. If there is a fire in a lower apartment and smoke fills the stairway, you're cooked. Sprinklers don't help with smoke.
Yuu would have to wait for the firemen to put up a ladder, or maybe go to the roof and try to jump over to an adjacent building. Most older tenements in flammable buildings have fire escapes.

Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 3:02 PM

There aren't fire escapes on the back wall? Yikes ...

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 20, 2009 3:09 PM

I suppose there could be fire escapes in the rear and you could use the rear yard as a safe haven until the fire department can get you out somehow. In case of a bad fire though, you would be kind of trapped for awhile, unless a neighbor takes down a fence or some such.
But I suppose the rear escapes and full sprinklers in every room could get it through the Department of Buildings.

I think condos are fine in big anonymous buildings, but in a little building like this, you don't want someone renting to flight crews by the week or to an escort service or what have you, believe me, this is a big interesting city those things are not that far-fetched. You would need strong house rules.

Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 3:19 PM

I wonder why these condos are priced so much higher than the co-ops a couple of blocks away I've had my eye on lately:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/154376-coop-130-saint-edwards-street-fort-greene-brooklyn
(2 bed)

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/375651-coop-105-ashland-place-fort-greene-brooklyn
(3 bed, same complex of buildings)

Is it because it's condo and not co-op? Same school district... are these coops really ugly or something? I'm super curious why these buildings are so cheap compared to others in the area.

Posted by: ennuiater at January 20, 2009 3:23 PM

This building must have a fire escape in the rear.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 3:29 PM

3:23 -- There's always a premium on condos because you actually own your apartment not just its walls. And, within reason, you can do as you please without having to ask anyone's permission, i.e., renovations, sublets and, yes, even sales.

Posted by: YngRntr at January 20, 2009 3:32 PM

ennuiater - the interiors on the condos of the day are far more modern and hi-quality (even with the ugly cabinets) than the ones you linked. That's probably part of it. Also, the complex you linked is a big concrete box, rather than a brownstone, which is less appealing to many people.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 20, 2009 3:35 PM

"And, within reason, you can do as you please"

Is this a plus or a minus in a four-unit brownstone?
People can be crazy.

Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 3:45 PM

"And, within reason, you can do as you please"

Is this a plus or a minus in a four-unit brownstone?
People can be crazy.

good point.

Posted by: YngRntr at January 20, 2009 4:18 PM

I do understand the point about it perhaps being nicer to outright own your unit in a condo rather than shares of the condo, but as a future homeowner I'm more intersted in space and closets than fancy fixtures. Also from my endless lurking on this site I've come to the conclusion as much as I love looking at brownstone units they are generally sadly out of price range for my family.

Happily I'm not going to buy for a couple of years (hoping to settle before son starts Kindergarten) but from all the looking I've done, I'd rather pay less for a "blank slate" do to my own renovations than pay twice as much for less space and a terrible "high end" reno. If I see one more black granite countertop I'm gonna stab my eyes w/ forks, I swear! Ok, well maybe not really. That's an exaggeration. But still- these kitchens are not worth the markup in my estimation.

Posted by: ennuiater at January 20, 2009 4:35 PM

I have black granite counter tops.
geez, remind me not to have you over.
...and I think my countertops are dreamy.

Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 4:43 PM

MIne are Uba Tuba granite. What's wrong with black granite countertops????

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 4:48 PM

ennuiator,

just remember that the costs of a renovated apt, brownstone, hovel, etc., includes the aggravation and risk of dealing with contractors, expeditors, architects and the dept of buildings. Any of them can make the potential profit on a renovation disappear.

Posted by: slick at January 20, 2009 4:51 PM

Hide the forks!!!!

Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 4:54 PM

The countertop thing- I have very dark green (almost black). I've lost count of the many times I've put my elbow (or something else) in some spilled substance because I didn't see it because the granite pattern hid it. Grr!!!

Any countertop that I have to lean a certain direction to check and make sure it's actually clean is too much work when you're juggling babies, food and all the other junk that ends up on my counter. Give me butcher block and stainless any day. One glance and I can see it's clean. My elbows are safe! lol

Posted by: ennuiater at January 20, 2009 5:11 PM

You have trouble cleaning a granite countertop?
What other types of countertops have you had?

Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 5:16 PM

It's not a cleaning issue Sam, it's an eyesight issue. :|

Posted by: ennuiater at January 20, 2009 5:22 PM

The problem with granite for an "old hand" (read "old bag"):

1)annoying stains: hand cream, lipstick, olive oil bottle...horrible! They should warn you in advance!

2)smashed glasses: once a wine glass shattered like someone hitting high C in a movie. It was amazing (and dangerous!)...and I was simply setting it down, granted a bit hard, but I didn't drop it.

3)the afore-mentioned water puddles that are nearly invisible

4)a very hard, unforgiving surface when knocking elbows, hands, etc.

5)you can scratch the finish with most any abrasive cleaner.

I will go with butcher block next time around...at least it can be sanded down to a new surface and is soft on fine china and glasses. We looked for zinc many years ago but it was not apparently available in the sizes we needed...that was before the internet so things were not so easy to research.

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at January 20, 2009 5:44 PM

SO much hate on this site. For granite no less.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 6:19 PM

I don't dig granite either. Too dark, too pattern-y.

Course, I'm not sure what I *like* for counters. Surely not marble, nor stainless, nor tile, nor composites, nor plastic. All of those are awful.

Wood looks okay but it's a bacteria farm unless you polyurethane the hell out of it, and then it just gets banged up too easily.

Polished concrete is kind of neat for an industrial look, but it wouldn't work in a brownstone.

Meh. Whatever you choose, it's going to look dated in ten years anyway. :)

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 20, 2009 6:42 PM

why are people such assholes about kitchen counter materials?

I have had granite for years, it is perfect, no problems at all. I know people who have quartz and others who have Corian, all perfect.
Slate is a big mistake as is marble and tile. don't do it. they are just hard to maintain.
wood counters are just peculiar and unhygenic.
I would like to know what the "trigger" is.
It must be something very deep.
Mother's Formica? Father's butcher block?
why do people go nuts over other people's counters?

Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 6:52 PM

I have granite and soapstone. Love them both. I had honed slate once and it stains. You can get the stains out with a few applications of mineral oil but its a pain. I've harped on the stain issues of marble (especially white) and the fact that its more "porous" and will harbor bacteria many, many times here. White marble will develop a yellowish stain (the iron from the water) wherever it is constantly exposed to water (near the faucets) in about 4-5 years or so.

There are an almost infinite number of granite colors to choose from. Many of them are really beautiful. The reds go very well with natural light stained cabinets like maple.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 7:08 PM

DIBS, you are a knowledgable gentleman. I second everything you said. The reddish granites harmonize beautifully with honey stained floors and certain cabinets.
The new artificial stones are just beautiful too. I am sorry I am no longer buying and selling places because I want to buy deep blue quartz counters.
You are either into it or not I guess.
I think this kind of stuff is so easy and fun, people get so stressed over it. My advise to people is to forget what you grew up with, forget about the past, look at these things and think about what you like now. It's about now and the future, forget about Mom's butcher block or whatever.

Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 7:33 PM

I miss the sparkly formica of my youth, but I appreciate being able to put a hot cast iron dutch oven right onto the granite and not think about it.

Anyways, back to the point: the other disadvantage that I see of brownstone conversions is you're living in something that was designed as a one-family house. That means, at least in my experience, there's a lot more noise between floors than in any apartment building. How many posts do we see on the parenting boards regarding this very question? I will tell you: many.

It isn't something that personally bothers me much, but I might think differently, were my downstairs neighbor complaining about my snowflake riding her trike at 7am. It would seem more practical to make these conversions duplexes... but space being the premium it is, that never happens anymore.

Which is sad, because this building would have made two killer duplex apartments.

Posted by: Heather at January 20, 2009 8:36 PM

Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned the granite part, because I could care less if the counters were formica or corian.

It's the dark color that I was going on about, and I was just being silly about a pet peeve. It's like men with brown shoes, certain things are deal breakers. ;)

Posted by: ennuiater at January 20, 2009 8:45 PM

ennui...I think there's a big difference if they are brown leather or if they are brown suede. The suede ones are definitely a deal breaker.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 8:48 PM

ennui baby, I love my beautiful oxblood wingtips.
Y'see now you are really just picking on me!
Are you kidding me? Beautiful brown Ferragamo slip ons?
OK you have no taste, NEXT!

Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 8:53 PM

You wanna know the real dealbreakers?

Tasseled loafers.

Ick.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at January 20, 2009 8:54 PM

I love my brown Allen Edmonds wing tips.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 9:01 PM

brown Allen Edmonds wing tips. That is class!
I have to get a new pair. I used to wear them all the time.
THE PERFECT SHOE!

OK DIBS we are bonding tonight.

Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 9:05 PM

Sam, Oxblood isn't brown. It's a beautiful rich red and/or sometimes burgundy. Jeez. That's why it's called Oxblood, not Brown.
In fact, if I saw a man on the street in wingtips of any kind, they'd get +10 style points. I'd only consider point deductions for brown depending on the rest of the outfit.
Lol.

p.s. I work in fashion, having no taste is a given. It's a living though, someone has to do it.

Posted by: ennuiater at January 20, 2009 9:07 PM

The brown suede shoes means they're probably a Taurus.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 9:14 PM

You work in fashion?
Oh that explains it.
To most lay people oxblood is more or less brown.
Allen Edmonds makes beautiful men's dress shoes.
They are killers in terms of comfort, will give you
bruises and skin peels all day long when they're new. They're English so naturally they are a bit masochistic.
But they are beautiful shoes. And once you tame them, they are pretty comfortable.

Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 9:20 PM

sam...actually my Allen Edmonds shoes were the only ones I've ever bought that were comfortable from the start..never got the usual bruises and chaffed skin when i first put them on.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 9:23 PM

is taurus bad?

Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 9:23 PM

Not necessarily.

http://mizian.com.ne.kr/englishwiz/library/names/zodiac/taurus.htm#_Toc6671977

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 9:28 PM

Read up on people you know well...you'd be surprised how closely they fit their "sun sign" profile. I don't really dabble in this stuff but someone I knew as an institutional stock salesman always knew what her clients' signs were and she taught me a lot about this.

I can pretty much always spot a Taurus and always spot another Scorpio. It's almost scary when it happens.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 20, 2009 9:32 PM

DIBS, this was going so well...but....yes...I'm a Taurus.

Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 9:38 PM

haha Sam, so defensive over your love of brown leather and black countertops!

I kid. My husband is a Taurus, and I confiscated all his brown shoes shortly after the honeymoon. It all worked out in the end. :)

I wish Mr B would shine a light from time to time on mid-priced condos/coops. I don't want to spend over a certain amount, which in this market forces me into a condo/coop fixer-uper as I need extra bedrooms for all my shoes. I search and I search.

I joke really. I have a 1 year old and I'm still trying to learn all about school districts before we buy anywhere. Lucky for me I have time and the market seems to be on my side.... for now.

Posted by: ennuiater at January 20, 2009 10:42 PM

Boys! Enough with the shoe talk. Didn't you read the scientific study about how wood is naturally anti-bacterial?

"Plus its a walkup, plus its a condo, so who knows who will be coming and going from the other 3 apartments?"

So true, Sam, this is why our ancestors lived in houses.

Posted by: mopar at January 20, 2009 10:55 PM

I'm afraid Mr. B is only into the most agressively priced properties in Brooklyn. Some of the properties he showcases are frankly scandalously overpriced. I don't know why he persists in this. Obviously his blog is going down the tubes, but nonetheless.....who's to say?

Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 10:57 PM

Obviously!

Posted by: mopar at January 20, 2009 11:07 PM

mopar, this is just a terribly mal-timed offering.
Maybe a year and a half ago you could have talked a married making $800,000 in bonuses, into buying some rooms in an old brownstone in Fort greene for a million American dollars, but I think you can forget that today.
An old pathetic rooming house, a firetrap really, luxuriously convreted into four cramped apartments, this is exactly what I hate about the Brooklyn real estate market.

Posted by: sam at January 20, 2009 11:08 PM

FWIW - I grew up with fairly basic counters, maybe one step above formica, so I'm not exactly clinging to my youth here. :)

The wife and I did a bunch of research based on this thread: I like quartz, and I like copper (apparently it gets ugly quick tho), and I like shale (but wouldn't get it since it's a bitch to take care of), and I like soapstone, and I like those recycled glass counters ... but only in very fine grain, and very white. Hell, it even seems that there are some wood options that are both hygenic and hard to damage.

So it seems like I'll have plenty of options for countertops if and when I finally buy, and if and when I am unhappy enough with whatever kitchen that I buy, that I need to replace it.

Also, I generally do not care for brown shoes.

Also, I kind of understand why Mr. B doesn't feature that many mid-priced condos/co-ops ... it's because a huge chunk of them aren't located in Brownstone Brooklyn. For example, there's a ton of condos in the $250k-$400k range in Flatbush and East Flatbush, but there aren't actually that many brownstones in those neighborhoods.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 21, 2009 12:05 AM

I choose honed granite counter tops for my kitchen when I renovated about eight years ago.

I like the functionality. I can put a hot pot down without burning the counter top. I do have to wipe them to avoid smudges, but I don't mind that.

I will never use granite or marble or slate or any stone for kitchen counters again. They last too long! There is no one material or look that I will want for the rest of my life, yet these granite counter tops will outlast me and my children. I wish I had used a cheerful formica. Then when it got tired or it looked crummy after about 8-10 years, I could, in good conscience, pull it out, replace it and freshen up my kitchen!

BTW, I also had high quality custom cabinitry built for my kitchen. Yhey are great looking and while I love my kitchen, I will be tired of the look before it needs replacing. The next time I have an opportunity to renovate a kitchen, I plan to spend less and be pleased when it gives it up after ten years.

Posted by: chase at January 21, 2009 12:47 AM

"scandalously overpriced"

I love it!

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at January 21, 2009 1:52 AM

I never said I had anything against Taurus', sam. I just pointed, and apparently correctly, the Taurus/brown suede shoe relationship!!!! They actually make for very loyal companions. But they certainly would not go for anything "flashy" in their countertops!!! :)

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 21, 2009 8:06 AM

« Checking In On Be@Schermerhorn House of the Day: 69 Gold Street »

January 20, 2009

Condos of the Day: 4 South Portland Avenue

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