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January 2, 2009

Another Mugging in Fort Greene

While it pales in comparison to some of the other crime that took place over the holidays, this one may be of local interest: On the day after Christmas a thirty-something couple was mugged on Adelphi Street off Dekalb Avenue. One of the two teens grabbed the man and told him to “Give me what you have,” reports The Brooklyn Paper. The couple coughed up $50 in cash and several credit and banking cards.

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Comments

Do you know what time of day the mugging occurred?

Posted by: brooklynfamily at January 2, 2009 9:35 AM

i think people need to be a little more proactive in situations like this. just handing over your cash and credit cards? lame. knock the little punk to the ground or slash his face with your keys. they will run. i know i know, they might have a weapon, but still. (they usually do not have weapons anyway).

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at January 2, 2009 9:37 AM

ETA - ugh watch me get mugged now!

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at January 2, 2009 9:37 AM

This taken from Diehipster.com. The best website in NYC!

Tips For Clueless People Who Get Mugged

http://www.subchat.com/otchat/read.asp?Id=388691

This real nice Brownstoner! I see that the Shark Jumping thang is back in vogue. You can't talk about about rising property values anymore so let's post Race/Class Covert crap and hope we are still interested. I hope you go back to OHIO Brownie and take the rest of the Asshats with you. Maybe you can get your dog "Fluffy" attacked again by a Pitiful. Brownstoner is a Poser who could not afford a Brownstone in Park Slope so he brings his crap to the Ghetto, Loser.....

The What (But... But... Not in.. The Face,, Please...)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at January 2, 2009 9:40 AM

Why don't you just add a 'Police Blotter' feature like the Brooklyn Paper does...'cause that seems the way you are going. Getting pretty boring quickly - hints of sensationalism and fearmongering.

Posted by: Petebklyn at January 2, 2009 9:43 AM

Is this mugging really newsworthy on this site? Guess what? Crime happens in fort greene. crime happens in park slope. Crime happens in brooklyn heights. Always has, always will.

The fear mongering and crime paranoia is starting to get out of control. I agree with the posts above - Unless the perps are laid-off bankers strong arming bystanders to pay for their $2 million dollar brownstone mortgages, I don't see how this is particulary relevant, interesting or indicative of a trend. Seems like brownstoner has joined the rest of the media in sensationalizing everyday crime to demonstrate that the end of the world is upon us...

Posted by: squaredrive at January 2, 2009 9:58 AM

This site needs new direction for 2009. Let's try to focus on homes not the stuff i can read about in our newspapers.

Posted by: sebb at January 2, 2009 10:17 AM

"This site needs new direction for 2009. Let's try to focus on homes not the stuff i can read about in our newspapers."

Brownnstoner 2005-2008
Mutant Asset Bubble 2003-2008
Asshats 2003-2008

RIP...

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at January 2, 2009 10:21 AM

FWIW I like to know about these muggings.

Posted by: lowintheheights at January 2, 2009 10:24 AM

Brownstoner-

What is the purpose of the crime postings- Hopefully, it's because you want to help alert your community to what's going on.

However, simply posting the fact that a mugging occurred is just going to result in the kind of fear mongering that the other posters are complaining about.

When 60s and 70s gentrifiers were working on their brownstones, they would do block watches and community walks- groups of people walking the block to make sure it was safe - that kind of stuff can't happen on a website, but a community like yours is a really great place to organize it.

Posted by: Park Place at January 2, 2009 10:37 AM

PP.. roving groups of gentrifiers? that might be scarier than two teens actually.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at January 2, 2009 10:43 AM

I think simply posting about these muggings is not "fear mongering", it is reporting a fact. The language used in the Brooklyn Paper article was much more sensationalist. I like to know what is going on in my neighborhood, not because I am going to panic but because I want to be aware.

Posted by: brooklynfamily at January 2, 2009 10:48 AM

This information is available widely - check the very link provided for a more complete police blotter.

If b'stoner feels that crime reporting is important then follow the suggestion above and create a weekly crime report, but do it factually and with statistics where relevant.

What I object to is uneven reporting and sensationalized headlines. I actually think What's original rant is not far off the mark. Why was this crime reported and not the fact that a man was shot in the legs on st.edward's place at myrtle avenue? B-stoner is cherry picking crime to feed a narrative of gentrifier fear... "ANOTHER MUGGING"....

Posted by: squaredrive at January 2, 2009 10:49 AM

I have to agree with others, as well. This is not worthy of the site. Brooklynian loves this stuff, let them do it. I don't want to come here for that.

This really does nothing other than foment race and class issues that do nothing to help us all come together in increasingly difficult times. There are always going to be muggers, there will always be street crime, in all neighborhoods, even the best. Perhaps even more in the best. Fort Greene is still a great neighborhood. Constantly reporting on muggings only reinforces the negatives of the neighborhood, and unfairly so. It also keeps people focused and angry about issues of race, class and poverty in this country that cannot, and will not be solved on Brownstoner. Would that they could.

I don't think it's realistic to pretend or hope that Ft. Greene/Clinton Hill will go back to being "the ghetto". First of all, it never was, and secondly, too many good people of all incomes and persuasions have worked too hard and too long to make them two of the most popular neighborhoods in Brooklyn. Brownstoner has always been about that, let's keep it that way.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at January 2, 2009 10:52 AM

Brownstoner - please before this go look in the mirror and seriously analyze why you are WRITING such articles.

Even in the lowest days of crime (last year!) a robbery occurs every other day (on average) in the 88th Precinct ( not bad for a population close to 100K)

YET you write your post using terms like "Another mugging" - FYI - it is always "another" mugging - we aint going to zero

and "while it may pale in comparison to...[Murder}" - thereby making it seem like the streets are out-of-control (i.e. we are so inundated with violence, a robbery is nothing) - of course YOU IGNORE the fact that murder in the 88th precinct is down FORTY PERCENT since last year (thru 12/28).

So why despite these FACTS do you insist on creating the image of mayhem and approaching doom? - is it because such posts generate traffic (are you so easily bought?); is it because you "feel" like crime is increasing? (if so is it so difficult to learn the truth); or is it because you secretly hope that Brooklyn becomes less gentrified and more "cutting edge" (if so are you so stupid is to not see the human damage that you are rooting for)

or is it some other reason - and frankly there is NO LEGITIMATE REASON to make such posts with ZERO CONTEXT and subtle hyperbole - so please do some reflection and figure out what is wrong with you that causes your actions in this regard.

Posted by: fsrg at January 2, 2009 10:55 AM

Agree that this is dumb.. how many muggings happen each day in the city? this is not news.

Posted by: oe at January 2, 2009 10:56 AM

Brooklynfamily - "The language used in the Brooklyn Paper article was much more sensationalist."

- You are so right - which is why the Brooklyn Paper and its "editor" Gersh Kuntzman is an embarrassment to Brooklyn.
(I guarantee that circulation of that rag is down huge compared to the pre-Gersh era - and despite what I am guessing is deep rationalization by Gersh Kuntzman that it is b/c of the internet - the truth is much is due to the outrageous writing and stupid commentary that litters that 'paper'.

Posted by: fsrg at January 2, 2009 11:00 AM

We certainly don't see it as fear-mongering, just neighborhood news. Some of the local crime incidents we've reported on in the past have come directly from those who've been mugged and thought the public should be made aware. But if everyone feels so strongly about it we will avoid writing about this stuff going forward, except in extreme cases.

Posted by: brownstoner at January 2, 2009 11:07 AM

Perhaps people in Ft. Greene/Clinton Hill should start a local Yahoo list or Google group to inform neighbors about crime and other quality of life problems (assuming that this hasn't already been done). That would be more useful than something like Brownstoner, which goes to a far larger audience.

FWIW, in PLG we have our "Leffertswatch"Yahoo list which, fortunately, doesn't get many posts, but is there when needed.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at January 2, 2009 11:18 AM

I am amazed at the vitriol in your reader's comments to this simple and brief post. Seems like crime is a sensitive issue for Brooklyn property owners these days...

I for one, never read the various small newspapers. I can barely choke down the political clap-trap that the NY Times has become, much less smaller rags peddling low entertainment for the subway ride. So, I appreciate hearing about about the occasional crime in Ft. Greene, or other neighborhoods that may or may not be within the jurisdiction of the much-maligned 88th precinct.

It is curious to me the correlation between posts that refer to the 88th precinct and the ones who 'found' a reference to someone's race, ethnicity, or class, for that matter, in what you wrote. Even the links did little more that identify the players by age, though the 'punks' reference was amusing. I imagined pale, waify kids with Doc Martens, blue hair and skinny jeans trying to act menacingly. Too funny.

Lastly, I want to encourage you to post the items that you think are relevant to your perceived audience. The people criticizing you here demonstrate very little respect for, or even familiarity with, reason.

Posted by: stoep2conquer at January 2, 2009 11:25 AM

Brownstoner - it isnt the "reporting" of events - it is the editorializing of the events that people mostly object to; phrases such as "another mugging" - go far beyond just "reporting".

And frankly unless the person who was victimized has something unusual or unique to say - (either because of new found insight or warning of pattern or location for example) - then in a way, such "reports" are editorial as well - since only a specific segment of the community gets a Brownstoner entry.

Crime is scary and feels out of our individual control; so it is prone to easily create fear and suspicion - if crime ACTUALLY increases (or changes patterns or locations) - sure report, editorialize etc.... but doing so on a random, arbitrary and contextual-less manner is a public DIS-service.

Posted by: fsrg at January 2, 2009 11:28 AM

Agree with stoep2conquer. I was puzzled by the reactions. I too appreciate the references, and do not think it is just a matter of "crime happens" in NYC. I think it is important to note it and important to think about it. I also found absolutely no reference to race in either Brownstoner's post or in the link. It simply described them as young punks. how is this "race baiting"?

I found the violent mugging by three teenage GIRLS at the subway in Ft. Greene to be much more disturbing than the "gimme what you got" sneak mugging on the street. They even used a "can you tell me the time?" ruse to distract the woman they attacked. Pisses me off.

Posted by: Nokilissa at January 2, 2009 11:34 AM

"We certainly don't see it as fear-mongering, just neighborhood news. "

WWWWHHHHHHAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTT??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

" Some of the local crime incidents we've reported on in the past have come directly from those who've been mugged and thought the public should be made aware. But if everyone feels so strongly about it we will avoid writing about this stuff going forward, except in extreme cases."

Translation: The posters are putting my ass on blast and I will have to cut this crap out if this Blogs is going to survive 2009..

Brownstoner let me sell your Brownstone right now. I will charge you 4% commission and you can get enough money to move back to Youngstown OH....

The What (But.. But.. Not the face!!!!!)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at January 2, 2009 11:34 AM

But this IS relatively new in terms of location, fsrg. At least as far as we knew, Ft Greene had seen relatively little in the way of violence and muggings for the last couple of years.

In recent months (and not all reported by Brownstoner): A cut up body in a bag on Washington Park, a series of unnerving and sometimes violent muggings on the streets and subways surrounding Ft. Greene, several murders, including one in which people were shot inside of a salon and a man was killed on its floor, while folks ducked for cover at nearby restaurants, a man having his jaw broken as he walked his son to school one morning...

Am I wrong or is there indeed an increase in brazen crime in the neighborhood? I don't think it is an intentional induction of hysteria to report an increase.

Posted by: Nokilissa at January 2, 2009 11:44 AM

I don't mind these kind of posts and I think people are being a bit harsh implying anything sinister here. People constantly say this blog is "supposed to be about real estate" but that's like expecting sports talk radio to be only about sports all the time (listen to Colin Cowherd sometime). This blog, to me, is about life in gentrifying brownstone Brooklyn - if people think mugging posts are so wrong and out of bounds, how come they let restarant reviews pass unremarked upon?

Any restriction on what B. posts on his own blog, that's censorship and politicaly correct B.S. and unamerican. If you don't like it, find somewhere else to hone your precious witticisms.

Sorry to be harsh but this is his blog, we just visit it.

Posted by: infinitejester at January 2, 2009 11:49 AM

It's so obvious that the posters who are compaining are the ones who live in ft greene and see crime increasing. In order to protect further declines in their property values they blast brownstoner for commenting on the truth. well well, I bet if this happened in brooklyn heights, Cobble Hill or Ps, these same posters would change their tune. How laughable.

Posted by: doldrums at January 2, 2009 11:59 AM

The restaurants on this stretch of Dekalb have it bad. First they've had to deal with perpetual break-ins by a creative cat burglar. Now they have to deal with the sensationalism of customers getting mugged. Throw in a recession and half these establishments will be out of business by next New Year.

Posted by: la di da di at January 2, 2009 12:01 PM

Just piping in to say that I don't mind the crime reports. And I don't think the word "another" is particularly sensationalist.

One can only read so many articles about 2.5 million dollar brownstones that one will never be able to afford, anyway. I like that this blog is about more than just real estate prices -- it delivers good info on real estate while also covering some neighborhood news.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 2, 2009 12:02 PM

I don't live in FG, and I don't think there is any "trends" going on except which incidents suddenly get reported as news.
(except the cut-up body thing, which is actual news)

Posted by: oe at January 2, 2009 12:03 PM

Well, maybe oe, but what about this (Gothamist, October):

Is the economic free fall already leading to higher crime and degentrifying neighborhoods, as previously speculated? Brooklyn's 88th precinct, which includes Fort Greene and Clinton Hill, is reporting that so far this year robberies have spiked 7.6 percent and burglaries are up 18.6 percent. And a cardboard box of bloody human remains discovered on fancy Washington Park isn't exactly putting residents at ease; one of them tells The Brooklyn Paper, “This hasn’t happened since the 1970s. Back then, I came out of my building one morning and found a body hanging from a lightpost."

Other residents believe crime stats are actually much higher because it takes hours to file a police report, which discourages some from registering an official complaint. So as a counterpoint to the NYPD stats, the Society for Clinton Hill has set up a map on its website for individuals to post details about local crimes. But the group also urges those who post incidents on the map to also fill out a police report.

And Councilwoman Letitia James appeared with Brooklyn D.A. Charles Hynes and local officers at a community meeting last night to discuss the crime wave. The Councilwoman says she's concerned about Pratt students in Clinton Hill being targeted by hoodlums, noting that "walking around with their iPods or computers and texting is not a good idea."

Posted by: Nokilissa at January 2, 2009 12:14 PM

NOKILISSA - "Am I wrong or is there indeed an increase in brazen crime in the neighborhood?"

depends on how you define "Brazen crime" - Murders are down FORTY PERCENT (and murder is by far the most reliable statistic in measuring violent crime - since you cant hide or 'reclassify' a dead body)
Robberies are up 11% thats about 25 robberies since last year - but last year it was a record low - compared to 06 (which at the time NYC considered the crime rate impossibly low) robberies are down 10%.

This location is not new for robberies nor has Ft Greene been relatively free of violence and muggings - Ft Greene (and Clinton Hill) have averaged about 300 robberies and about 10 murders throughout the '00s - which is low but not "relatively free" and this year is no different - in fact it was on the low side.

Anecdotes are remarkably good about relaying the emotional and physical details of a particular crime but TELL NOTHING about crime rates or trends. Which is why when Brownstoner tries to use one, as evidence of the other - he gets attacked.

Posted by: fsrg at January 2, 2009 12:22 PM

fsrq:

May I ask, where is your house and what is your asking price?

Posted by: stoep2conquer at January 2, 2009 12:32 PM

There is a big difference between restaurant reviews and crime reports.

You are right, infinitejester, it's Brownstoner's blog, and he can post whatever he likes, as I am sure he will do. To say that any criticism is unamerican is ridiculous, and a cop out. It is precisely American to make suggestions, offer opinions, and criticise. Which is all any of us are doing. If Mr. B wants to do a weekly police blotter, and a majority of readers find that useful, I have no problem with that, I will choose to look at it, or not. But I also agree with squaredrive, a fair reporting of crime should have stats from all brownstone and readership neighborhoods - muggings and crime in Bed Stuy, Bushwick and Crown Heights, as well as Fort Greene, Park Slope and Carroll Gardens, and all in between, including Victorian Flatbush.

Given the enormity of that, I think it's a service best done by others, and a link to such might be a better use of time for a blog that has always been about interesting slices of life in the real estate and day to day life in Brooklyn.

While no one specifically mentioned race or class, it is an undercurrent that cannot be ignored or sugarcoated. Let's not be disengenous to think that anyone thought Fort Greene muggers were blue haired, skinny punks. I certainly didn't. I think there is a very fine line between educating the readership and falling into sensationalism and profiling. I'm not saying Brownstoner has, in this case. I'm just saying that care must be taken. This site is a valuable resource, a fun place to gather, and an interesting doorway into the way my fellow Brooklynites think about the world around them, especially on a micro level.

Like many of the results of gentrification, too many of my peers and aquaintances see this site as not for them, even though they share brownstone ownership, preservation interests, varied income levels, and the same neighborhood concerns as the majority. One of the reasons why more don't read this site is because of attitudes expressed in some of the more "racy" (pardon the pun) threads that have appeared here. I see those threads as an opportunity to educate, or at least put my point of view out there, and perhaps show a side not considered. I only ask that Brownstoner consider the overall use of crime stories. Do they really educate, inform, or warn the readership about places and people who can be avoided or we can be protected from? If so, then fine. But if they only serve to scare, or perpetuate attitudes about "them", who surround and interact with all of us, then they are feeding into the fear and loathing so despised by the What, fsrg, and squaredrive. And that is a worthy topic of discussion, right there.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at January 2, 2009 12:37 PM

stoep2conquer - nice try but I live well into Park Slope and have no plans to move - I just prefer that people stick to the facts - and if you try a search you'll see I have the same 'agenda' whether the misinformation is "positive" or "negative".

Posted by: fsrg at January 2, 2009 12:37 PM

I see nothing wrong with posting this. I see everything wrong with Asshats like the What turning it into a ridiculous race issue. If the muggers were white, then they were white. If they were black then they were black.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 2, 2009 12:37 PM

That gothamist article demonstrates the exact problem that has taken hold in crime "reporting". Valuable facts surrounded by speculation, paranoia, and anecdotal remarks. Reporting crime is legitimate for this blog, but it would best serve the community to report crime consistently and with some larger sense of historical perspective about trends, unrelated to anecdotal evidence. Everyone is expecting crime to rise, so we see every incident as evidence...good media would provide a check on that tendency rather than feeding it by cherry-picking crimes to report.

Posted by: squaredrive at January 2, 2009 12:43 PM

"it's Brownstoner's blog, and he can post whatever he likes, as I am sure he will do. To say that any criticism is unamerican is ridiculous, and a cop out. It is precisely American to make suggestions, offer opinions, and criticize."

Yep Yep!!!! And if Brownstoner allow comments then we have to "right" to express our feeling also!

MM I remembered a couple of months ago when your panties got all wet for the "end of the world" party. You think those Asshats have you interest at heart but this place is a breading ground for Race/Class warfare. Brownnstoner has disrespected the long time residents of this neighborhood and cheered on Gentrification! Brownstoner reporting on crime is so disingenuous! Jon don't care about crime, only hits to this blog!

Brownnstoner be very carful about Karma! Karma has a way of making you a "victim"..

"I see nothing wrong with posting this. I see everything wrong with Asshats like the What turning it into a ridiculous race issue. If the muggers were white, then they were white. If they were black then they were black."

Dave Dave Dave! We are smarted than that.. The What didn't start the fire but just pissing on it..

The What (Brownstones in 2009 ROTFLMMFAO)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at January 2, 2009 1:03 PM

Just because housing prices go down from bubble levels, or because bankers are out of work, shouldn't cause crime to go up.. this seems to be some sort of wishful thinking/nightmare scenario that people seem to have latched on to. Take a look at the crime blotter each week, you'll see this stuff is so common .. I mean a $40 mugging, and nobody was hurt.. this is like reporting a traffic ticket.

Posted by: oe at January 2, 2009 1:08 PM

What writes...."You think those Asshats have you interest at heart but this place is a breading ground for Race/Class warfare. Brownnstoner has disrespected the long time residents of this neighborhood and cheered on Gentrification! Brownstoner reporting on crime is so disingenuous! Jon don't care about crime, only hits to this blog!"

You were the first one to make it a race thing asshole.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 2, 2009 1:15 PM

I love reading these older articles about brownstone neighborhoods from years past.

Here's one from the NYTimes in 1984 as a neighborhood profile of Ft. Greene...

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0CEEDD1038F935A35756C0A962948260

Just think it's nice to see where "we've" come from to put it all into perspective.

Posted by: 11217 at January 2, 2009 1:15 PM

When I go into a bar, I don't think, "Gee, that woman has a .7 waist to hip ratio." I think, "she's hot!"

When I judge neighborhoods, I don't think, "Gee, per 1,000 residents, 12 violent incidents." I think, "what are some anecdotes I've heard about here? Are there applicable, similar conditions?"

Expecting a blog to either a.) fulfill and mirror the inner monologue you have in your head or b.) have journalistic standards comparable to CNN.com is just wrong. Blogs are a little personality, a little fact, for an alchemy that makes for something greater than the parts.

Posted by: infinitejester at January 2, 2009 1:20 PM

infinitejester - When I judge neighborhoods, I don't think, "Gee, per 1,000 residents, 12 violent incidents." I think, "what are some anecdotes I've heard about here? Are there applicable, similar conditions?"

Well then you are a moron (sorry but its true on this issue) and the fact that morons like you are wandering our streets judging neighborhoods by meaningless anecdotes is further evidence of the danger of Brownstoner publishing such posts.

Posted by: fsrg at January 2, 2009 1:23 PM

11217 - that's a great link.. thanks for sharing

Posted by: oe at January 2, 2009 1:36 PM

I appreciate posts on various local events, criminal and otherwise, as I don't have time to follow local newspapers or blogs. Coverage did not seem sensational.

Posted by: rachel at January 2, 2009 1:43 PM

"...is further evidence of the danger of Brownstoner publishing such posts."

Censorship! How dare you post that opinion, Mr. B., it's dangerous!

I'll judge for myself what I think is dangerous, thank you. (and everyone else who jumped down B.'s throat and acted like it was for purity).

And I've learned I have a ghetto pass, so I don't really think that, it was rhetoric.

Posted by: infinitejester at January 2, 2009 1:56 PM

I don’t come on this blog to read about who was been mugged over the weekend. I could care less. However, I do come on this blog to read about Brooklyn real estate. Save the crime reporting to someone else, and stay on topic.

Posted by: Gowanus_Bklyn at January 2, 2009 2:28 PM

"And I've learned I have a ghetto pass, so I don't really think that, it was rhetoric."

I'm curious as to what you mean by that infinitejester. Can you spell that out?

Posted by: cobblehiller at January 2, 2009 2:54 PM

Mr.B why wouldn't you report on the great job the NYPD did in 2008? overall crime was down over 3% . why not report that?

Posted by: sebb at January 2, 2009 3:08 PM

Gee, I'm not sure I need to add anything to this discussion but to say that Mr. FSRG did, in fact, make some good points (well argued) and that I appreciated what Ms. MontroseMorris wrote. I would have appreciated if the original mini-blurb above had listed the time of day.

Frankly, I never have felt DeKalb was that safe but that may be my hold-over impression from years past.

Other than that, I've been taking taxis home from Manhattan a lot but that's more because of age and a foot problem (and both being an excuse for laziness when I'm tired). I used to take the subway but in this cold weather after an exhausting evening dealing with my nonagenarian aunt in Manhattan, I'm sorry to say, I just can't handle a walk to the closest subway station near her apartment and then the, yes, short, walk home from the Lafayette station to the house.

I guess...maybe...I have lowered my chances of getting mugged?...

Getting mugged can be no fun. In the early 90s when we lived on Park, a friend of ours was violently mugged right on 77th or something like that between Park and Lex. The man managed to drag her into a recessed doorway. A car parked right in front of our Park Avenue doorman building had the window smashed for a radio or something like that...then we moved to Fort Greene and I was mugged (only my cash was taken) on Lafayette after dark in the winter at about 8PM in the early 90s.

Oh, well.

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at January 2, 2009 3:19 PM

And I've learned I have a ghetto pass, so I don't really think that, it was rhetoric."

I'm curious as to what you mean by that infinitejester. Can you spell that out?

That means this Asshat learned some new slang at the Xmas party from one of his Black Co-workers..

Hey Dave it's 2009! That Hedge Fund model is busted (Thank you Madoff)! You job security is in great jeopardy! So instead attacking me all day you better process those redemption requests you Poser!

The What (But... But... Brownstoner to me the neighborhood was safe..)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at January 2, 2009 3:19 PM

Sorry to be argumentative today - I almost got run over on the corner of Union and 6th this morning, been a little pissed off all day.

cobblehiller - it was just a random comment referring to frsq's reply, something someone told me once.

Posted by: infinitejester at January 2, 2009 3:21 PM

Ugh...Union...drivers speed down Union. It feels very dangerous to me that street.

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at January 2, 2009 3:25 PM

Yeah, wasn't yesterday the day you had to watch out for crazy drivers?

Posted by: infinitejester at January 2, 2009 3:33 PM

Every day is crazy, aggressive driver day on Union. I'm not sure why exactly but I guess it's a flyway off Grand Army Plaza. It's a hill with good deal of slope so drivers speed up. It's only one lane in either direction and when a car pulls up in front of the Coop or the firemen are pulling the truck back in the firehouse, there's a jam up and huffy drivers yank out over the double line and then gun down the rest of Union.

Frankly, when a cab driver is going to fast for my taste, I will often ask him to slow down. I also get carsick with the kind of pointless gunning of the engine, lane swooping and rushing just to get to red lights some taxi drivers insist on...and then they tap the brakes on and off while at the red light in anticipation of the light changing to green so they can really, really increase my carsickness! :-)

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at January 2, 2009 3:44 PM

a "ghetto pass", from what i understand it to be, is something a black gentrifier carries.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at January 2, 2009 3:51 PM

Actually had some money come in last week What. +5% for the month of December!!!! Poser???!!! Ok Loser.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 2, 2009 4:03 PM

now i would never wish harm on another person,so im glad they were not hurt.but in all honesty every time i hear one of these stories,myself and im sure alot of other native brooklynites silently rejoyce.brooklyn is a working class borough.always has, always will be.the majority of us are roofers,plumbers,masons,cops,firemen,nurses and so on.not u so called "urban professionals".so since u chose to make ur home in our borough,how about u try to get to know some of us,and say hello once in a while.instead of crossing the street when u see us.

Posted by: buckfast at January 2, 2009 7:53 PM

Yeh, nothing's more "working class" than block after block of four-story brownstones all containing what used to be servants' quarters below them. Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Park Slope, Victorian Flatbush ... all filled with mansions.

Brooklyn has always been a mixed-class borough (and city before that), containing everything from stately mansions to tenements. The "we blue-collar folks own this place and are just letting you professionals stay here" BS that sometimes gets spouted off on this blog is both historically inaccurate and completely foolish.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 2, 2009 8:37 PM

seriously, you come here to live in the big city this is what happens. Stop moaning about it and get serious. keep your head on a swivel and say hello to your neighbors so that they know who you are. i guarantee that if you have a more cordial relationship with the good and the bad people on your blocks then you are safer in the long run

Posted by: ibrahimSalih at January 2, 2009 9:28 PM

he "we blue-collar folks own this place and are just letting you professionals stay here" BS that sometimes gets spouted off on this blog is both historically inaccurate and completely foolish.

what is accurate is that the new residents barely acknowledge the hard work put in for many years by the long term residents. so punks come here and they they are saving the neighborhood, making it viable or some other foolishness.

for example, that BID on fulton? hell no should there be one. BID's are like Authorities, political quagmires with no authority and generally led by people who have no interest in the integrity of a neighborhood. Fulton is JUST FINE. if you do not like the crime. LEAVE>

Posted by: ibrahimSalih at January 2, 2009 9:42 PM

cwbuecheler.my point was that the rich have bin,and are a minority in BK.so are the out of towners.i was just trying to point out that u need not be wary of us natives,and try to get to know some of us.u really took what i said to heart,so u must be one of those people who crosses the street when u see us.

Posted by: buckfast at January 2, 2009 9:53 PM

well put ibrahim

Posted by: buckfast at January 2, 2009 9:56 PM

"Fulton is JUST FINE. if you do not like the crime. LEAVE>"

So,Ibrahim...you LIKE the crime?

Posted by: houseowax at January 2, 2009 11:26 PM

I didn't cross the street when I lived here in '95 and "saw natives coming" and I certainly don't now. In those days, which weren't even that bad compared to the 80s, you couldn't leave a car parked on the street in Prospect Heights (even gorgeous streets like Carlton) without taking every item you owned out of it, along with the radio, unless you wanted it to be broken in to. Guys lined up along Myrtle in Clinton Hill to panhandle, literally one after another, sitting on milk crates outside of what used to be the A&P a few blocks away from Pratt. 7th ave in Park Slope was nice, but 5th ave was sketchy and not yet built up like it is now.

To suggest that things being like that is or was somehow preferable to the current state of those areas is crazy. I disagree with the idea that BID's are a bad thing -- they encourage businesses other than 99-cent stores and nail salons to open, as well as improving the overall look of the street. They demonstrably reduce crime and make neighborhoods more attractive. I don't care if it's natives or newcomers who are opening those businesses, it's still a good thing.

I absolutely understand and acknowledge the work that people did to improve Brooklyn. The work was done by both long-term residents and by new arrivals to the neighborhoods, of all ethnicities and economic levels. Huge parts of Brooklyn are beautiful and vibrant places to live now, thanks to the work that people have put in. I think that's awesome and part of the reason I want to own in this borough is because of the diversity, character, and attitude of the people who live here.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at January 3, 2009 10:29 AM

In the grand scheme of things I can see how this particular crime might be considered, perhaps, "boring". I can also see how this my deviate from the central theme of Brownstoner. However, I am in favor of posting this topic. I live in Fort Greene, and I, like many of the educated readers, do not make global assessments after reading only one article. It certainly does encourage me to keep a closer eye out. Additionally, I am looking to buy in this area and look to Brownstoner for perspective. It seems reasonable to me that the more people who know about these incidences the more we can directly or indirectly prevent them from happening in the future. What better place to forum this topic than a site dedicated to those interested in well being of their community.

Thanks for posting!

Posted by: GrapeofWrathNYC at January 3, 2009 2:09 PM

montrose morris, i liked what you said, although I don't agree that posting about crime is race baiting. It seems that the people who react to it as such are reacting out of a place of personal discomfort or defensiveness. I can understand where that comes from, but it doesn't make it useful or help anyone move forward. I think any blog about real estate in NY should have information about crime in the neighborhoods - both crimes by developers who don't have secure work sites and crimes by "punks", be they black or white.
Should we all do the see no evil, hear no evil thing just because some people can't handle a discussion about crime without turning it into a fight about race?
If brownstoner is writing about the exciting and fun aspects of life in brooklyn, i.e. events, dining, stores opening, then why is it against the rules to talk about crime?
It always cracks me up to hear people like the What strut around like a ridiculous rooster about how everyone should go back to ohio if they don't like it...I've gotten to know many old timers in my neighborhood (clinton hill) and none of them want crime, embrace it, or accept it. They've worked hard to get it out of the neighborhood, worked hard to get PS 11 to be better, etc.
So, to those of you freaking out, I would recommend a little soul searching or therapy at least to see what it is you actually reacting to and that perhaps it has more to do with your own perceptions and fears than with some villainous conspiracy to race-bait.

Posted by: miss priss at January 3, 2009 5:11 PM

It's perfectly legitimate to post about random street crimes in these neighborhoods. Obviously, it affects real estate prices and the perceptions of the neighborhood.

Fort Greene most likely has a permanent problem with this kind of predatory street crime. For all the renovation and trendy dining that surfaced in recent years, it is surrounded by public housing and ghetto, so the human trash that lives there finds easy pickings between Myrtle and Fulton. But this doesn't seem to carry much of discount in the housing prices compared to the nicer brownstone neighborhoods, which is truly confusing.

Having lived in the neighborhood for years, I would never actually buy anything in Fort Greene for these reasons.

The idea that this kind of violence is somehow part of the cultural heritage of Fort Greene and should be preserved is ridiculous. If you own your home, work for a living, or have a family, you can't reasonably think that. That is beyond race, where you buy your clothes, etc.

Posted by: delousebklyn at January 3, 2009 7:01 PM

"It always cracks me up to hear people like the What strut around like a ridiculous rooster about how everyone should go back to ohio if they don't like it..."

Miss Priss if someone do not like the conditions they are living in (crime in a newly gentrified neighborhood), then they should move to the neighborhood that has lower crime rate. Brownstoner has posted about Drug Dealers, Homeless People and Marauding Teenagers. These issues has a tinge if racism and do not address the real issue of crime here. Check the other "Crime Stories" and you will see they was written with hype in mind, not to be "informative". Crap like this divides us and is not constructive Miss Priss. Black people are not going to disappear so you can have your little "Utopia" in Asshat Hill, in fact the reverse is happen right now and you will see that plenty of people made a mistake.

"I've gotten to know many old timers in my neighborhood (clinton hill) and none of them want crime, embrace it, or accept it. They've worked hard to get it out of the neighborhood, worked hard to get PS 11 to be better, etc. "

Really? "Old Timers"?? That's what they are?? They are not people? Humans? Citizens? That is where the problem lies. You Asshats believe your helping , like the Pilgrims. That concept is so sad.

So, to those of you freaking out, I would recommend a little soul searching or therapy at least to see what it is you actually reacting to and that perhaps it has more to do with your own perceptions and fears than with some villainous conspiracy to race-bait.

Souls searching??? I watch my neighborhood being invaded by Smug, Pertencious Asshats. These same people look at me like I'm a piece of crap. Praying the day where they see only they own kind. Long time friend forced to move because of high rent and greedy landlords and don't tell me they should've brought something. Owning a house does not make you special, in fact sometimes owning a house is a burden. Hole in the ground where good house once stood because some Dumbass knock it down to build Condo's. Coney Island was the heart of Brooklyn until Thor Equities destroyed a treasure.

Thank God it's 2009, the year where the Mutant Asset Bubble gets put to sleep...

The What (Born, Raised and will die in Brooklyn)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at January 4, 2009 12:44 AM

"Fort Greene most likely has a permanent problem with this kind of predatory street crime. For all the renovation and trendy dining that surfaced in recent years, it is surrounded by public housing and ghetto, so the human trash that lives there finds easy pickings between Myrtle and Fulton. But this doesn't seem to carry much of discount in the housing prices compared to the nicer brownstone neighborhoods, which is truly confusing."

See Miss Priss! This the chance the Covert Race/Class stuff comes out and you tell me that "villainous conspiracy to race-bait."?? Yeah OK sweetie..

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at January 4, 2009 12:49 AM

sorry, what, a little late in responding. simply said, you're a loser. and a dork. you've been right about some things and I've sometimes enjoyed reading your posts, but when you go off about this stuff and then start to threaten violence to brownstoner, you lose all credibility. if you would just stay on point and not go cuckoo, I think you'd find that you have more in common with many of us than you think. Nobody loves it when new people move in to a neighborhood and drive up prices - why do you think brooklyn got "gentrified" in the first place. people got priced out of manhattan, but wanted to stay in New York. That's not some evil, racist plot, that's just NYC for you. I think you bring race to the table most of the time. I don't know of a single person in a majority who's sitting there thinking evil thoughts about black people every time a crime in brooklyn is reported. I think there are some crazies who might - sounds like you do - but there are crazies in every group who hate another group for silly reasons. I think most people just feel concerned, sad, afraid, motivated. People are aware of class issues, but I just don't think the readership of brownstoner is necessarily your enemy. seems like a pretty liberal crowd, with the obvious exception of yourself. What would be your REAL solutions to the issues - I mean it. Not just ranting and raving and calling names. step up, let us know what you would do.

Posted by: miss priss at January 6, 2009 3:57 PM

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January 2, 2009

Another Mugging in Fort Greene

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