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December 17, 2008

Willoughby Avenue Convent Closing, Future Uncertain

sisters-of-mercy-convent-1208.jpg
Holy cow! The Sisters of Mercy Convent at 265 Willoughby Avenue in Clinton Hill is closing after 146 years as a home to nuns devoted to working with the sick and the poor; the convent is facing $20 million in renovations. As for the future of the property? "Selling the convent could help raise even more money for their mission, Sister McCann said, but no decision has been reached. Though the building is not a landmark — giving wide leeway for any new owners to develop or demolish the property — some nuns said they hoped they could still return to the chapel on special occasions." Yikes! LPC, where are ya?
After 146 Years, a Brooklyn Convent Is Closing [NY Times] GMAP P*Shark
At a Brooklyn Convent, a Season of Heartbreak [City Room]
Photo from PropertyShark




Posted by Brownstoner at 11:01 AM | Comments (52)
Categories: Clinton Hill

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the only thing those nuns will be returning to if they sell it will be bamboo floors, imported bowl sinks, and for the grace of god recessed lighting.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at December 17, 2008 11:04 AM

I had Sisters of Mercy in grade school AND high school. They are responsible for the person that I am today.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 17, 2008 11:06 AM

I used to listen to The Sisters of Mercy when I was in Highschool. They were partially responsible for the person I am today. More so The Cure, though...

Posted by: Shahn Andersen at December 17, 2008 11:10 AM

Dave--is that good or bad (haha)?

Posted by: wasder at December 17, 2008 11:11 AM

Landmark this building - quick!

Why? It is a unique, one of a kind remnant of 19th century New York, and a fine example of institutional architecture, of which little remains, these days. The convent has a long history, that's worth something. The chapel is probably a period gem, and it would be a shame lose it. Stumbling upon the entire complex, hidden as it now is amongst factories and industrial buildings, is like finding a secret place, and that should be preserved.

OK, I'm a realist, it would make great apartments, or dorms or a hotel. I know it can't remain a convent. In the hands of a good architect and a developer with some vision, whatever it becomes could still enhance the neighborhood, and still be that visual "oh, who knew", that greets you when you come up on it. It's one of my favorite Clinton Hill buildings.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at December 17, 2008 11:14 AM

Two of the nuns that I had in high school my parents also had in the same high school. That was very scary. Vincentian Institute, Albany, NY. It also had a grotto that; after the school was closed and made into some form of housing, is still there today I believe.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 17, 2008 11:14 AM

Montrose--a boutique hotel would be suite!

Posted by: wasder at December 17, 2008 11:16 AM

I thought Sisters of Mercy were a heavey metal band.

Great building.

Posted by: dittoburg at December 17, 2008 11:16 AM

The grotto at Vincentian Institute still has its original cork floors. I bet that chapel here is a gem, MM

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 17, 2008 11:18 AM

"Oh, the sisters of mercy, they are not departed or gone."

Posted by: infinitejester at December 17, 2008 11:25 AM

I went into the complex a fews years ago for am anniversary of Pratt's chaplain (I'm an alumni). The interior 'courtyard' is really nice. It was finally great to be inside the building that I used to view from the 9th floor of Willoughby dorm for 5 years. I hope greed doesn't come a knockin...

Posted by: jfmarch at December 17, 2008 11:26 AM

OK, I just had a minute to look at the slideshow in the Times article. The chapel is a masterpiece! The courtyard, with the Juliette balconies is beautiful. Tearing this down for a bland, modern, condobox would be a SIN.

This building should be preserved, no ifs, ands or buts.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at December 17, 2008 11:37 AM

Not really heavy metal, morelike early goth.

Posted by: Heather at December 17, 2008 11:37 AM

I know the article said it could take $20 million to fix-up but I wonder if Pratt would be willing to purchase it for students and classrooms. It would be a complete shame to lose it and the chapel interior is fantastic.

Posted by: jftprospect at December 17, 2008 11:38 AM

Can we start an online petition to landmark this building? I always saw it from the outside and thought how amazing it was in the middle of this industrial area between the Burg and Clinton Hill, next to the BQE. It would be a shame to have some developer knock it down. Especially that gorgeous chapel. (No I'm not a Catholic).

Posted by: Cobblegirl at December 17, 2008 11:39 AM

Tearing this building down instead of developing it would be insane ... there's no way a developer's going to make more money off of some new concrete shoebox condos than they would off of something built within the existing structure.

Posted by: cwbuecheler at December 17, 2008 11:40 AM

What a great idea Cobblegirl, I would be happy to create a petition if people would send it around. I think even those who don't like landmarking would look at this building complex and have second thoughts about tearing it down.

jftprospect.

Posted by: jftprospect at December 17, 2008 11:45 AM

Gorgeous.
Please save this!
It could easily be turned into Condos, while preserving the exterior and the spectacular interiors.
If only we lived in an ideal world!

Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 17, 2008 11:47 AM

To add a human note to this, seeing those aged and infirm nuns who have dedicated their entire lives to God and to helping others, having to leave their homes to get shipped elsewhere is very sad. While I gave up being Catholic years ago, I still have great respect for true people of faith, who walk the walk. An order of nuns which specifically worked with Negro and Indian children, were responsible for my mother's education, including putting her through Xavier University in New Orleans in the 40's. If she hadn't become the person she was, I might not be who I am. The chapel should be preserved, if only for their sake.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at December 17, 2008 11:52 AM

As my friend Neil likes to say, "I have forgiven the sisters, but the Franciscans? -- Never!"

Posted by: altervoce at December 17, 2008 12:04 PM


I was thinking one of those online petitions. I don't know how to set one of those up. Does anyone have the know how?

Posted by: Cobblegirl at December 17, 2008 12:12 PM

If it is not landmarked, it is toast.
I think the last thing in the world the Landmarks Commission would be looking for now is a political fight with the Catholic Church and the Sisters of Mercy.



Posted by: sam at December 17, 2008 12:15 PM

I can set it up, it's very easy. I just want to get a little more information on the building before doing it. If anyone has more details or photos please let me know!

Posted by: jftprospect at December 17, 2008 12:16 PM

I wish I did. Perhaps a first step would be to contact the City Councilperson for that district then work forward from there? And does anyone actually KNOW anyone at Landmark's?

Posted by: Nokilissa at December 17, 2008 12:17 PM

The Landmarks Commission landmarked two big Catholic Church complexes in Harlem in 2006 so it can be done.

Posted by: jftprospect at December 17, 2008 12:17 PM

The Landmarks Commission landmarked two big Catholic Church complexes in Harlem in 2006 so it can be done.

Posted by: jftprospect at December 17, 2008 12:18 PM

There was a great article in the NYT regarding Landmarking and Churches.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/01/arts/design/01landmarks.html

Landmarking is a daunting process. If a committee is set up to save this, someone contact me and I'll pass along info for every organization / person to contact.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 17, 2008 12:26 PM

Hi folks;

Just to ease your mind a bit - with very few exceptions, the Diocese of Brooklyn (as opposed to the ArchDiocese of NY) has a policy of not selling off their land or buildings, even if they are closed for their original purpose. For instance, my old parochial school in Gravesend was shut down about 8 years ago, but it is now being used as a special education facility.

Posted by: benson at December 17, 2008 12:29 PM

I went to a Franciscan high school - and all the sisters were sisters of mercy. such wonderful, gentle souls.

Posted by: A Guest at December 17, 2008 12:29 PM

From the article it sounds like the building is owned by the Order, not by the Diocese. I may be wrong.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 17, 2008 12:33 PM

I know this might belong more in the Open Thread post, but I think the lyrics are wonderful and there is a spiritual element and sense of loss in the words, so it's not entirely off-topic...from 1971, by the way. Marvin was way ahead of his time.

Oh, mercy mercy me
Oh, things ain't what they used to be
No, no
Where did all the blue sky go?
Poison is the wind that blows
From the north, east, south, and sea
Oh, mercy mercy me
Oh, things ain't what they used to be
No, no
Oil wasted on the oceans and upon our seas
Fish full of mercury
Oh, mercy mercy me
Oh, things ain't what they used to be
No, no
Radiation in the ground and in the sky
Animals and birds who live nearby are dying
Oh, mercy mercy me
Oh, things ain't what they used to be
What about this overcrowded land?
How much more abuse from man can you stand?
My sweet Lord
My sweet Lord
My sweet Lord

Posted by: Biff Champion at December 17, 2008 12:36 PM

It sounds like the order wishes to sell the property to fund their mission, that is, their services to the poor.
If the building were landmarked it could be adapted to be housing, but if it is not, a developer could produce much more housing more quickly by tearing it down. Of course in this climate, the most profitable use may be as a convent.

Posted by: sam at December 17, 2008 12:38 PM

Folks;

Point taken about the Order owning it, but there is more to it. For example, in the case of my parochial school, it is owned by the parish, but leased to the Diocese for the special-education school (which serves the entire borough).

This building is close to the Dicocese's chancellory (sp?), so let's hope that they do take it over. Again, it the Diocese's policy to not give up land in the borough, as they realize that once they sell it, it is probably lost forever for some possible future use. Let's see what happens.

Posted by: benson at December 17, 2008 12:45 PM

I imagine this building is well suited for conversion. I wouldn't worry about it be demolished. It is a fine building.

Posted by: Polemicist at December 17, 2008 12:48 PM

"Polemicist Opts Out Of High Density Redevelopment"

:)

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 17, 2008 12:51 PM

There's a nunnery on Washington Square North in the City that's landmarked, too, but many churches aren't.

There's a similar complex to this one, Angel Guardian, at 63rd St. and 12th Ave in Brooklyn. Part of Angel Guardian was one an orphanage with fairly sizeable floorplates (and children sleeping in long rows ala Madeline, I imagine). It has these extremely wide metal fire escapes that look big enough to accommodate 4 to 6 children abreast. Now part of the complex is used for not-for-profits, part for a senior center, and parts of upper floors for a scattering of nuns.

Don't you think the Merchy Convent could be developed something like Graham Court?

Posted by: Bessie at December 17, 2008 12:51 PM

It is indeed probable that the order, and not the diocese, owns it. Like most (not all) RC orders, this one must surely be aware that they are in demographic sunset, and they are turning off the lights literally and figuratively. Someone has to be last out the door, of course. A very sad day for those of us who were taught by this order.

Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at December 17, 2008 12:57 PM

I imagine this building is well suited for conversion. I wouldn't worry about it be demolished. It is a fine building.

Posted by: Polemicist at December 17, 2008 12:48 PM

THUD!!! (Sound of jaw hitting floor.)

Posted by: Montrose Morris at December 17, 2008 12:59 PM

Don't know about the Sisters of Mercy, but the nuns involved with Mt. Loretto in Staten Island and the ones at 20 Washington Sq. N. are based somewhere in the Bronx and it's their order that owns the building not the Bk Archdiocese on the NY Arch Diocese. Angel Guardian seemed to straddle an archdiocese and the order of nuns.

There's truth to the no sale thing. I did recently get a call about hundreads of church properties from the Catholics and the Episopalians being available for lease in Brooklyn and Queens. I asked for a follow up list but haven't gotten it yet.

Posted by: Bessie at December 17, 2008 1:08 PM

It is all coming to pass, Montrose. That was the Seventh Sign.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at December 17, 2008 1:18 PM

what a hearbreak- it would be criminal to destroy this. And it seems large enough that it could be cost effective to convert, instead of tear down. The place is just so beautiful.

Headline: Polemicist to Join LPC. "I love old buildings- we need more of them!"

Posted by: bxgrl at December 17, 2008 1:22 PM

Pratt would be foolish to let this slip through their fingers if they are able to purchase it. In fact - Pratt should've acquired all those beautiful Civil War era warehouse buildings on Taffe Place when they could've gotten them for practically nothing.

Posted by: fexleycb at December 17, 2008 1:38 PM

Unfortunately, the Sisters of Mercy have stated themselves that the building needs 20 million dollars worth of repairs. That's a lot of money. Converting old buildings like this to new uses is an incredibly complicated and expensive process in NYC where the building, fire, and accessibilty codes are very elaborate and specific and often contradictory. Every little item in this building from the open stairs, to the wood joists, to the lead paint, to the unreinfoced masonry construction (earthquake codes are now the law) is an unbelievable hassle at the DOB. Without the Landmarks Commission pushing from their end, this sort of coversion is almost an endless bureaucratic nightmare. That's why so few attempt it. It isn't because it is hard to do architecturally, or because people would not live here if they could, it is because NYC codes are almost impossible to comply with unless you are building a brand-new building. If you think this type of conversion -requiring a new C of O- is easy, you should try it.

Posted by: sam at December 17, 2008 1:52 PM

Something this beautiful is worth fighting for. What's the alternative- another piece of boring, poorly designed and constructed crap.

Posted by: bxgrl at December 17, 2008 2:13 PM

It would be a wonderful locaton for a primary school. This neighborhood and the surrounding ones are already in stroller gridlock. In just a few short years, there won't be enough room in either public OR private area schools to serve the new families. Just on Flatbush between Tillary and Dekalb there's enough anticipated new population to serve a couple of good sized new schools.

While I sort of doubt the DOE would renovate an existing building for a new school, private individuals might.

Pratt, I fear, won't find a budget for this. They're moving too fast renovating all of the Steuben St. housing they have on campus already. Plus they have new construction on Myrtle.

Posted by: Stonergut at December 17, 2008 2:36 PM

Countash! We used to endlessly bike around this place in the summer in hopes of finding some nun that will show us the inside. Amazing place that reminds us of Hausmanian buildings only in beautiful red brick this time around. LPC please move on this one pronto. Even Poley is on board on this one for this architectural marvel speaks for itself.

BTW Poley did you rethink your stance on that little homeless problem?? Trop drole:)

Brilliant idea Cobblegirl on the petition thing.

MM that chapel is indeed a masterpiece: Absolument fromidable!

Sam we understand what you are saying but it can still be done profitably if the will is there and greed is not overwhelming: like someone else pointed out the former convent on Washington ave in CH, Apple Bank on the UWS, One Hanson Place, and the Police Building in Chinatown / Little Italy are all prime examples.

Posted by: pierre de taille at December 17, 2008 2:53 PM

I contacted the Historic Preservation program at Pratt Institute in order to make them aware of this travesty that is going on right in their back yard.

Who knows what, if anything, they can do but to me it seems like a property that is a prime candidate for landmark status.

Posted by: LimestoneKid at December 17, 2008 3:57 PM

good for you, limestonekid! Let us know if you hear back.

Posted by: bxgrl at December 17, 2008 4:03 PM

Bessie, the Angel Guardian location is linked with the Catherine McAuley Convent where a number of Sisters still live. Catholic Charities, a senior center, a Montessori school and some social work offices are located at the Catherine McAuley Convent as well. That property is the entire block and is not going anywhere. The Sisters will continue to have a presence in Brooklyn there.

All,

Catherine McAuley founded the order in 1831 in Dublin and is on the Irish 5 pound note. The order came to Brooklyn very early in its history. The MotherHouse (Convent of Mercy) should be on the National Register of Historic Places. If this were Boston, I would bet the MotherHouse could be saved by local public support.

The MotherHouse has been the home of thousands and thousands of orphans. There is an alumni group for these (adult) children. There is a website for them. It was also a day school at the same time as well as later after the orphanage was closed when the fostercare system was created. Those into NYC history may know the full story of this, when the City closed the ophanages..was it the early 70's or the late 60's...can't remember.

I was very upset when the order had to decide, after a structural evaluation as well as a review of code issues, that the repairs and changes would be too costly and that the resident Sisters would be relocated.

I am very much hoping Pratt might step up to the plate since the convent is at Willoughby and Classon literally facing the campus.

If I had the money I would absolutely fund the costs to preserve this building for the Sisters. I am glad the NYTimes finally did a big spread on this so there is an awareness of this.

Not that this is parallel but, the Pfizer mansion and first factory in Brooklyn are for sale or already sold by the company after they held onto them through thick and thin. There is a sad karma that surrounds this kind of thing for me.

I read the "official" history of the Steinways last year. It was very interesting. I think there was an article on the Steinway mansion and the man who who currently owns it in the NYTimes not too long ago.

I would get involved in any neighborhood/Brooklyn effort to save the Convent. I hope this website stays on this. Please.

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at December 17, 2008 5:59 PM

LANDMARK! Quick! Fourtune teller: i see another high rise, about twenty stories high, floor to ceiling glass windows, underground parking garage. Oh yes I see.....money....lot's of money......

Posted by: siIluvBK at December 18, 2008 10:26 AM

Hello All,

I've posted a free online petition to the Landmarks Preservation Commission asking them to landmark the Sisters of Mercy Convent. Take a look, please sign, and send it along! Thanks.

http://www.petitiononline.com/convent/petition.html

Posted by: jftprospect at December 18, 2008 1:10 PM

My mother went to nursing school taught by the sisters of Mercy in the 1940s and lived in this convent/residence with other nursing students. We drove past it the other day and she was surprised that it was so close to me. It is beautiful. I kind of like the idea of converting it to condos and keeping the convent signs up, like the Graham House for old ladies.

Posted by: donatella at January 8, 2009 11:11 AM

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