Utopia in the City

Goodness gracious! I don't think anyone bothered to read the NYTimes article closely much less visit their website or read up anything on cohousing. Sam and BayridgeWoman were particularly quick in their snap judgments today.

This is NOT communal living.

This will basically be an apartment complex with studios up to 4-bedrooms apartments nicely appointed with kitchens and baths. It'll be a coop/condo complex with a twist Part of that twist is that it is not the same spirit or idea of a coop where people move in and expect to fight. It is an intentional community from the get-go. The people are building a community BEFORE, the place is built FOR them. Many of the things that become hot button issues in condo/coop situations will be worked out beforehand and there will be strong mechanisms for handling conflicts, new ideas, etc.

There are many aspects that would not normally be built into a complex of this scale. There will be underground parking and the communal space will be above and beyond what many coop/condo complexes would ever have: music room, wine cellar, woodshop, activity rooms for kids, office center for those who want to rent an office and have all the necessaries at hand, artist's studio, guest suites, restaurant type kitchen, huge dining room, bike parking, a large, safe outdoor space, a roof deck with Manhattan views, an adults only lounge, enclosed courtyards for reading/chatting.

It will be apartment living in many ways and people can be involved to the level they want to be involved. In cohousing you can participate in community dinners and weekend brunches if you want, or opt out.

You know that your house will be safe when you're away for vacation or a sabbatical abroad. A neighbor you trust might be able to water your plants and deal with your mail, possibly feed your cat, deal with the litter box, or walk your dog.

And yes, there will be children. There may be many people available to baby-sit.

Though the complex is not huge, there will be three elevators in different locations for those with mobility issues.

This $30m+ complex is to be built to a high level of quality, finishing, and energy efficiency, not by a developer looking to maximize curb appeal while skimping and cutting corners just passing future added energy costs or poor workmanship onto buyers. The association is the developer in a sense so their construction dollar will go farther. This is not a low-income project. It is not a commune where people are moving necessarily to live cheaply. It seems to me from reading about the project and attending an orientation meeting it might be rather expensive upfront but will be cheaper in terms of maintenance and other costs. The large pool of money will allow for very professional landscaping job and serving of the buildings. Yes, there are mixed-income cohousing urban complexes here and there. Dealing with the cost of Brooklyn real estate, this group cannot be low-income.

So far, the project appears to have a wide mix of people and family situations. There are young children, some on the way, much older kids, seniors/retirees, single people, couples. It does not appear to me to be toddler-heavy at this point. To those who seem to fear all children, there are many delightful children in the world. All of you reading this were (or still are) children. There was much too much child hatred in the above comments today. I can understand people’s frustration with unruly, misbehaving, loud children who are seemingly overindulged and have meltdowns in public. But, even if you do not have children of your own, living around children might help you understand something about yourselves.

Again, from having attended an orientation, I can see the group is fairly heterogeneous. There is no obvious ideology except for participants wanting a more sustainable living situation that is less resource intensive, safer, more convenient, interactive and social.

With any luck, the final community will be open to the wider community and serve as a powerful Fort Greene resource. The project seems to have a LOT of money behind it and the buildings are probably going to get built. For quite some time I have been thinking about selling our house and having a nice easy apartment to deal with. There comes a time when stairs and cleaning too much stuff is aggravating along with all the other things that go into being a homeowner. As you get older, a “complex” starts to sound kind of interesting. Having to clean 20-30 windows does not.

Because we have been looking into some of the types of cohousing complexes around the country and thinking about leaving New York City, I have been doing research on them for a couple of years. Typically, in cohousing groups and communities across the US and Europe, the voting system does not throw away ideas that are not "agreed to" 100%. There are shades of "yes" and "no". You can vote stating you agree to letting something go forward but have reservations. You can vote that you absolutely want something. You can vote that in no circumstances can you agree to something because you believe it will not be in the long-term interest of the community/finances/building structure. This is basically the main type of veto. Many things that people are not thrilled with they may give a shaded "yes" vote on so things do not necessarily stagnate with this kind of consensus voting system.

Again, the comments on this thread were not very generous. A number of the naysayers today might not even be able to afford to live in the complex. Many of the people who are members and attending the meetings appear have some personal wealth and/or are selling their brownstones and apartments to live in this cohousing complex.

It will be a wonderful place to live, and unlike, as someone brought up, a commune or Shaker community, it does not have to replenish itself per se. It is not a farming ecovillage in the countryside.

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at December 1, 2008 7:21 PM

It is an apartment complex with sellable units in a HIGHLY desirable NYC landmarked neighborhood. As people leave, they will sell their units/shares, either to an existing member who wants a different apartment or one of their friends/family who wants one. Cohousing houses, townhomes or apartments have a ready market and little problem selling. Or, something not likely to be easily done in regular NYC buildings: members can swap apartments. Say, if a single mom becomes an empty nester and does not need a two-bedroom apartment. She can swap it out with a household that needs a home office or has a new baby. She can downsize into a studio or one-bedroom, pocket the difference, stay in the same building/community, avoid broker’s fees, etc., etc., etc. This is very intelligent household management. I know many people who have found themselves basically forced out of a neighborhood they loved and lived in for decades, sometimes help build up. It can be a sad and difficult process for them and their friends. Sometimes those on fixed incomes are forced out because real estate taxes grow by leaps and bounds.

I look forward to hearing more about the progress of the Brooklyn Cohousing group and am very excited they’re in my neighborhood and will fix up that decrepit church and do something with that open lot that had been derelict since I can remember. The developers who bought the church didn’t make a go of it but I guess they’re getting their money out of it because the cohousing group and their well-informed consultants, architects, lawyers et al see how terrific and well-suited to cohousing this property is.

Best of luck to them!

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at December 1, 2008 7:36 PM

Heather,

Regarding what you wrote about Carlton Muse: I have to respond reminding you that I am not part of the cohousing group. I simply attended an orientation. But, I am very familiar with cohousing across the country since we are interested in maybe moving out of NYC at some point in the not too distant future.

I would not write off cohousing because this project seems expensive to you. Cohousing across the US can be on par, and even cheaper, than regular "go-it-alone" kind of housing and the value can be much greater to the resident/community member.

With Carlton Muse, since I have seen the plans, I can say the apartments are not that small at all. I don't think that many people in NYC and our area of Brooklyn would call a two-bedroom floor-through "small" unless they're used to living in a duplex or loft. The apartments are nicely sized.

I have to say that I don't know if this project is right for us at this time but I like the idea of being able to have a photocopier, fax machine and other office support things within my building, to have a elevator in what would normally be a walk-up height townhouse (the knees, the knees!!!), to have a huge kitchen where I might be able to do canning and make my preserves AND have people who can be involved (i.e. "help") and kids (and adults) who can learn. There will also be a music space and many musicians living in the complex which would be a plus. The function room will be large and residents might be able to host their events since community dinners will only take place a couple of nights per week. There are all sorts of other features the group is working on.

Now, one would argue that your "gated community" is the story for most of NYC. Each home and certainly each apartment house, big and small, rich and low income, is "gated". This project, from what I can see, will have many openings on the streets. The townhouse side on Carlton Avenue will have many stoops and entryways just like regular townhouses. The Adelphi side with the church will be different and will keep the streetscape much the same.

It not like a gated community which many coop/condo towers are in Brooklyn where you pass by a security guard just to get onto the grounds.

The social contract is such that, yes, it may appear to you the city's residents "co-exist pretty harmoniously"...some would beg to differ with you. You're are more privileged than you realize. Though you're bemoaning the possibility of not being able to afford to live in the complex, you haven't even put your toe in the water to find out more.

Now, something you should know, by pooling resources up front, it might be possible the group, like other cohousing groups in the U.S., will be able to aid those who have fewer resources. Often members of a cohousing group who have been working on the community all along may not be able to get a bank loan or come up with a full down payment at the time of move-in. In many cases, the group's members who have more resources will aid those who need help. This is something you will probably NEVER see in any other kind of social (non-institutional) grouping in this country.

Cohousing groups have been known to do all sorts of creative things to get their members in a home. Sometimes a disabled member on SSI with tight income and net worth restraints and thresholds for Medicaid/SSI eligibility will find the community will buy that person's unit and hold it in common so the person can "rent" it from the community. Some cohousing communities have members putting up thousands of dollars extra each so units can be affordable to lower income households.

Lots of things are possible when people work together. I know that the last couple of years have been much about aspirations to "modernity" and the alienation that goes along with everyone's own little well-appointed domain. There has been a huge upsurge in vanity and frivolity these last years. Maybe it has to do with the boomlet establishing households and a sense of independence mixed with easy credit and materialism/consumerism. Better minds than mine can ponder this one.

But, now is the time we have to get down to brass tacks. The people who are involved in this cohousing community are creating something positive. It might not be right for you, but it may be a positive experience to its members who might otherwise find themselves paying the same amount monthly to live in a similar "regular" apartment without all the amenities of the community. Plus, with any luck, the cohousing community will serve as a greater community resource and incubator.

Why not go check out the orientation or at least their website and the links to other websites?

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at December 2, 2008 11:51 AM