« Atlantic Yards: Beneficiary or Victim of Economy? San Francisco of the East Coast »
December 16, 2008
Open Thread
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BRG...I saw that ad on TV again last night for Bay Ridge Honda's Night Owl Service with the old TV clips and the dubbed voices..."I go out at midnight for a Loooooobe job"
Does everyone in Bay ridge talk that way???
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 9:40 AM
Remember I used the word "historic", well that word is gaining momentum.
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2008/12/best-buy-cites-historic-slowdown-cuts.html
“The historic slowdown in the economy and its effect on our business over the past 90 days have been the most challenging consumer environment our company has ever faced,” said Brad Anderson, vice chairman and CEO of Best Buy. “We believe that there has been a dramatic and potentially long-lasting change in consumer behavior as people adjust to the new realities of the marketplace."
...
"[B]ased on the recent changes we’ve seen in consumer behavior and the potential for worsening consumer spending, we need to prepare our organization to operate in a wide range of potential macro economic scenarios in the coming year. Additional prudent actions will be taken to prepare the business, such as reducing our capital spending by approximately 50 percent next year, including a substantial reduction in new store openings in the United States, Canada and China."
emphasis added
Company after company is announcing reduced capital spending plans, and this means non-residential investment will decline sharply next year.
Funny thing folks, people are shopping but are not buying junk this season. Oh well rally on..
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at December 16, 2008 9:44 AM
30 Year Treasuries just broke 3.00%.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 9:46 AM
anybody know what's being built on pacific st just west of underhill next to that giant church?
Posted by: chortik at December 16, 2008 9:46 AM
Does anyone know when they are opening Fulton St. to 2-way traffic in Clinton Hill? They've painted a lovely double yellow line down the middle and I had the unfortunate experience of encountering cars going the wrong way on the still one way street over the weekend.
I'd love to see the buses back on their regular routes!
Posted by: rf at December 16, 2008 9:49 AM
Hey Dave,
real quick, I was on a PhD track for Human Sexuality and worked for the Kinsey Institute YEARS ago. Never finished, and switched tracks entirely shortly after my research in SF. But saw A LOT. Remember A LOT. It was crazy!
Posted by: Nokilissa at December 16, 2008 10:07 AM
Yes, SF was crazy but I still think NYC held the prize for craziness. At least SF closed down the bathouses.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 10:11 AM
Noki...I might have alot of questions for you :)
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 10:12 AM
BRG...you are ignoring my question up above in the first post.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 10:13 AM
Sorry, DIBS...I haven't see the commercial.
But do you mean, speak that way as in accent or say those words :)
If it's the latter, you might want to ask Noki.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 10:15 AM
I think you may be right about that, but it was before my day here. Never saw NYC's crazy, but I hear tell...
BRG, you'd be shocked, SHOCKED I tell you ;)
Posted by: Nokilissa at December 16, 2008 10:22 AM
Accent.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 10:22 AM
"30 Year Treasuries just broke 3.00%."
That's real scary! That means no one want to buy any debt but US T-Bills. Why get 3% for 30 years when there are other form of Bonds out there, because have no faith in the debt being issued.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
BTW I think the FED is going to 0.00% but no one cares. The Bank will let the money sit in the vault and collect interest...
Posted by: Return of The What at December 16, 2008 10:26 AM
"30 Year Treasuries just broke 3.00%."
That's real scary! That means no one want to buy any debt but US T-Bills. Why get 3% for 30 years when there are other form of Bonds out there, because have no faith in the debt being issued.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
BTW I think the FED is going to 0.00% but no one cares. The Bank will let the money sit in the vault and collect interest...
Posted by: Return of The What at December 16, 2008 10:27 AM
DIBS, have you heard me speak....so, yes.
It's a Brooklyn accent.
You transplants are so easily amused by what is truly NY!
Noki, you'd be shocked to know that NOTHING shocks me :)
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 10:28 AM
What, what's your take on the SEC compliance examiners being in bed (literally) with the Madoff family?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/28242487
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 10:31 AM
Biff....ZZZZZZ....really.
We're discussing Noki's 'bed' research
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 10:33 AM
chortik/rf, sorry, I can't help you in answering your questions.
"We're discussing Noki's 'bed' research"
Exactly! Thanks for noticing my segue.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 10:36 AM
"What, what's your take on the SEC compliance examiners being in bed (literally) with the Madoff family?"
Great question!
(We can get back to Noki's fling with Kinsey after!)
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 16, 2008 10:37 AM
You kids have your pillow talk with this scandal. I'm out of the loop. (I'm still reading today's NYT about all this).
I'm going to go lie down, wake me up when you're done knocking boots over this.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 10:40 AM
The article says that he was investigating in 2003 and they got married in 2007. It might be a bit of a stretch. Not defending anyone here just pointing out the facts.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 10:40 AM
"What, what's your take on the SEC compliance examiners being in bed (literally) with the Madoff family?"
Biff this is part of my post from yesterday. You see this is the Hijacking of America by criminals. These people have infected every aspect of our lives and we will suffer because of the BS. If you want to do some reading then please read this ..
http://www.deepcapture.com/
Deep Capture is a work of investigative journalism examining the growing threat to our financial system posed by illegal naked short selling.
"No because they are part of the "Ckick Clak Crew! They kids go to school together they "swing" with each other and they are part of the Mutant Asset Bubble plutocratic crowd, AKA "Good Old Boys".."
We are in big trouble...
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: Return of The What at December 16, 2008 10:43 AM
What...can you seriously tell us that you've analyzed the finances at Overstock.com and prove the large number of people wrong who are short this stock??
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 10:51 AM
DIBS, point well taken and there are now many who said red flags should have been raised as early as 1999 or even prior to that, but this really doesn't look good or help matters in terms of the SEC's image. Investors are desperately scrambling to get what they can, but I don't think they'll recoup anything...not even pennies on the dollar.
"Biff this is part of my post from yesterday. You see this is the Hijacking of America by criminals. These people have infected every aspect of our lives and we will suffer because of the BS. If you want to do some reading then please read this .."
- What, I agree in this case that Madoff is the worst of the worst. He not only bamboozled billionaires and certain financial institutions, he also screwed a number of charities and members of the middle class who were investing their retirement funds with him. He should be locked up forever - although I wouldn't mind seeing him let and and have some street justice administered to him.
Having said that, one can't paint all Wall Streeters with one brush. The majority of those working in the financial sector are truly good, hard working and ethical individuals. As we've seen, it doesn't take many bad apples to do incredible damage and give everyone a bad name. And yes, there are good apples who helped precipitate the subprime mortgage crisis, but please understand that they too do not represent all of us.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 10:53 AM
so i have a question.. so far how many people do you know who have been laid off or lost jobs? so far as of yesterday i know FOUR! and none of them are even remotely in finance or anything like that. SO scary :(
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at December 16, 2008 10:59 AM
"What...can you seriously tell us that you've analyzed the finances at Overstock.com and prove the large number of people wrong who are short this stock??"
Dave, Dave Dave.. You are not stupid! You know about the sharks and what they do to weak companies. They Homeboys get together and go to town on a stock..
Can I ask you a question Dave? If I have "inferior" knowledge about the Markets then, why do you try to discredit everything I write? You are the Hedge Fund guy, the "smart" one and you make a living from this. How come a raving lunatic like myself called the October crash this year? Like I said before I hope no is paying for your advice on the Market. I think Madoff has a better track record than you..
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at December 16, 2008 11:03 AM
"so far how many people do you know who have been laid off or lost jobs?"
Rob, the number for me is huge. Every week it seems I get a couple of emails bounce back (from friends/work associates in financial services mostly, but not all of them) indicating the email address is no longer in existance. It's obviously by far the most prevalent in financial services, but unfortunately we're seeing it starting to trickle down and spread to other areas. I just hope for everyone's sake it'll turn around soon.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 11:05 AM
Yes Biff...the amount of collateral damage from Madoff is truly stunning. I said yesterday that one of my colleagues here in the office who runs a fund and rents space from us had a client that asked about him a few years ago.
She advised against giving him any money because there were too many red flags that were obvious to her with only a cursory review.
Apparently, as is always the case during times of too much liquidity, not a lot of due diligence was being performed out there. Very sad but most of these people were supposed "professional" investors.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 11:06 AM
"He should be locked up forever - although I wouldn't mind seeing him let and and have some street justice administered to him."
I'm telling you - we need to bring back the stockades! On the Battery! Put the worst of the worst out there in tattered thread bare striped prison rags, and let them sit out in public, in the cold, and be yelled at and pelted with rotton tomatoes and eggs.I have no mercy for this scum.
Robbing retirees of their hard earned saved money is the lowest of the low. They played by the rules, they did the right things, and they deserve better.
Rob; I don't know of any outside finance at the moment.
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 16, 2008 11:10 AM
"She advised against giving him any money because there were too many red flags that were obvious to her with only a cursory review."
DIBS, she sounds like a smart woman. For others, reputation is everything and the due diligence performed by some was clearly appallingly insufficient. I wonder what other similar Ponzi schemes might be uncovered as people start withdrawing their funds. Are you guys still ok in terms of redemptions in light of the Madoff story and already brutal market conditions with people starving for liquidity? I'm really hoping you guys can weather the storm.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 11:13 AM
"Having said that, one can't paint all Wall Streeters with one brush. The majority of those working in the financial sector are truly good, hard working and ethical individuals. "
Biff let me give you a example: Say someone like me was working for oh.. Bear Sterns. My views on the market would get me fired because I was not a "Team Player". There is a story about a underwriter who worked for Countrywide. She would reject fraudulent Mortgage Applications because of (Fake W-2, Fake Job, Fake Contract and Fake Fake). Her bosses would scream at her and she had to go thru alot of BS. This is the culture thru out the Mutant Asset Bubble! It takes the Psychology of Greed and Delusion to make it work and when people take a stand against crap, they are Ridiculed and Laughed at. The funny thing is when it all comes apart people will say "they had no idea" and that is the scary part..
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at December 16, 2008 11:14 AM
Again, ask the What a question and never get an answer. You're probvably a great broker to work with on the other side of a sale. What an Asshat.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 11:15 AM
madoff was the reason one of the people i know's company closed down. it was Jeht, a non profit. they are closing in january. totally sucks. they found out in a meeting yesterday. :(
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at December 16, 2008 11:17 AM
rob...I did see JEHT among the list of investors. I in no way want to detract blame from Madoff but the boards that supervise ANY organization have no business putting all of their eggs in one basket. It shows an incredible high degree of mismanagement.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 11:20 AM
"Apparently, as is always the case during times of too much liquidity, not a lot of due diligence was being performed out there. Very sad but most of these people were supposed "professional" investors."
Yeah Dave, Yeah..
"I'm telling you - we need to bring back the stockades!"
Nope Cobblehiller, just let the idiots lose everything! Guess what Madoff will walk free! Why you may ask??!! Have you ever read the contract to a Hedge Fund???? That thing is think as a telephone book and the Lawyers who wrote that crap gave that Hedge Fund and Madoff a ton of "outs". The Big Boys keep a Law firm at the ready and will sic them when the time comes.
"Robbing retirees of their hard earned saved money is the lowest of the low. They played by the rules, they did the right things, and they deserve better."
Oh no!!!! Greed and Delusion plays a BIG part on getting fleeced! A Con Man will always tell you what you want to hear, not what is good for you. 12% returns, yeah right.
In fact I hope Madoff get away with is crap because it will bring us back to normal (what ever that is. ; ^ }).
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at December 16, 2008 11:22 AM
"It shows an incredible high degree of mismanagement."
And why is it that individuals and organizations did put all their eggs in one basket? Isn't it investing 101 - diversify?
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 16, 2008 11:23 AM
Yes it is cobblehiller.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 11:24 AM
As for layoffs, I personally know eight who have lost their jobs in the last six weeks: some in fashion, some in graphic design, one in publishing. I'm a freelance graphic artist and I know dozens of people in my position who, while technically not unemployed, are woefully underemployed. An alarming number of my clients are having budget cutbacks as well and are either not commissioning work or are offering less $ for the same work.
It's looking grim from my perspective.
Posted by: houseowax at December 16, 2008 11:25 AM
What, all I'm saying is, sure there are stories like the one you gave (and other similar ones), just like there are stories we've all heard about unethical real estate brokers, lawyers, car salesmen, etc. Again, the sheer magnitude of the financial damage that can be done by a minority of scrupulous individuals in financial services is the difference. I've been in investment banking for years and can tell you that this behavior is not the norm. What went awry and what is now crystal clear is the lack of effective oversight, both internally at the firms themselves (within compliance, risk management, etc.) and from the SEC, Fed, OCC, etc. I personally don't believe one has to be dastardly to succeed on Wall Street. Madoff himself very well might have been rich beyond his dreams had he run a legitimate operation, but his own greed, combined with a lack of oversight, insufficient investor due diligence, etc. allowed this to happen.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 11:27 AM
"Again, ask the What a question and never get an answer. You're probvably a great broker to work with on the other side of a sale. What an Asshat."
You know something Dave, I have enjoyed the last 2 days on the open thread. I have a dialogue with Biff (of all people) and it's good. Dave when you attack me you just adding to my creditability and BTW thanks for calling me a Asshat. It's was getting a little too civil around here..
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at December 16, 2008 11:28 AM
What...can you seriously tell us that you've analyzed the finances at Overstock.com and prove the large number of people wrong who are short this stock??
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 10:51 AM
So I'll ask again then. You seem to be quite hard headed when it comes to actually answering any question that calls in question your posts.
Don't throw out some website supporting your viewpoint when you don't have the slightest clue what is going on with the writer of that website.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 11:32 AM
"In fact I hope Madoff get away with is crap because it will bring us back to normal (what ever that is. ; ^ })."
What, I disagree with you on this one and don't want to see innocent folk (if perhaps not the most intelligent investors) lose everything; least of all those who were just middle class, hard-working folks who were just trying to do what they thought was best for them and their families. As for Madoff, I hope he's made an example of, which is what he deserves. Then again, letting him walk free might be the modern day equivalent of feeding him to the lions.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 11:32 AM
What...can you seriously tell us that you've analyzed the finances at Overstock.com and prove the large number of people wrong who are short this stock??
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 10:51 AM
And again.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 11:33 AM
Ok, and then where does this DTCC article I read on Deep Capture and linked to another publication yesterday fit in. What is this business with unresolved trades?
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 16, 2008 11:33 AM
Biff I disagree with some of what you said. Go watch Wall Street, Boiler Room and Glengarry Glen Ross. There is a mentality that you have to use when working in the Bubble and like Cobblehiller says " It's all fun until someone loses a eye".
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: Return of The What at December 16, 2008 11:33 AM
cobblehiller- maybe part of that reason is what What was saying, about the MREB plutocrat crowd- people tent to trust who they know. And if it looks like that friend is making a fortune for you, you go with it. They went with what or who they had the most confidence in, and maybe on some level thought they get around the basics.
I keep reading about the psychological component to the economy (investor confidence, marketing, consumer confidence)- it seems to play a huge part but I don't usually see it tied into discussions of the economy. And since, as we all know, finance is not my middle name, it's just my take on what I'm seeing and trying to understand.
Posted by: bxgrl at December 16, 2008 11:35 AM
"What, I disagree with you on this one and don't want to see innocent folk (if perhaps not the most intelligent investors) lose everything; least of all those who were just middle class, hard-working folks who were just trying to do what they thought was best for them and their families."
Biff we are around the same age. I remember my Father saving for the house I grew up in. He bust his ass in the Hot Restaurant on 14 st for years! This was the American way, save your money, buy a house and raise your family. Now at day we believe we can earn money by pushing paper to one another. We believe we can spend more money that we earn. We believe we can make money by just buying a house and we have turn into Greedy, Delusional, self centered idiots. The first Depression had a cleansing effect on this type of behavior and America was stronger because of it. I think that people need to have their asses kick real hard! So screw the middle class because if they didn't buy into the Mutant Asset Bubble, we would not be in this mess..
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at December 16, 2008 11:41 AM
That 11:41 post of yours is finally worthy of QOTD, What.
That said, you still haven't answered my question about your knowledge of the Overstock.com finances.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 11:44 AM
here is an exact snippet of convo i had with someone just now who is part of Jeht who got screwed over my murdoff:
(11:34:49 AM): they had it all with one firm who they trusted
(11:34:55 AM): but it wasnt all their money
(11:35:02 AM): it was just all the money for the foundation
(11:35:12 AM): it wasnt bad funds it was bad people
(11:35:26 AM): good returns were fake
whatever that means :(
Posted by: PitbullNYC at December 16, 2008 11:47 AM
Yes, they trusted him and he turned out to be a fraud. No matter how much you trust anyone who invests your money for you, you do not give it all to one person. It is Investing 101 and any person who has a fiduciary duty in overseeing assets is as guilty as the person committing the fraud. That's what is implied in the term "fiduciary."
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 11:49 AM
"That said, you still haven't answered my question about your knowledge of the Overstock.com finances."
Uh..Dave, Did you see The What name posted as the CFO on Overstock's 10Q?????!!!!
Give it a rest already...
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at December 16, 2008 11:51 AM
"Biff I disagree with some of what you said. Go watch Wall Street, Boiler Room and Glengarry Glen Ross. There is a mentality that you have to use when working in the Bubble and like Cobblehiller says " It's all fun until someone loses a eye"."
What, I've seen all of those. In fact, Glengarry Glen Ross is one of my favorite movies ever. The scene with Alec Baldwin is incredible (for those who haven't seen it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-AXTx4PcKI )
We still disagree to an extent. I do agree that CERTAIN individuals in CERTAIN business lines feel they need to act in a CERTAIN manner to succeed. The clearly deficient internal and external lack of oversight enables such people to get away with unethical and often illegal behavior.
And I still don't want to see the middle class get screwed and I don't think the majority of them deserve to be.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 11:55 AM
"We still disagree to an extent. I do agree that CERTAIN individuals in CERTAIN business lines feel they need to act in a CERTAIN manner to succeed. The clearly deficient internal and external lack of oversight enables such people to get away with unethical and often illegal behavior."
Biff that's OK and remember "Coffee is for closers"..
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: Return of The What at December 16, 2008 12:07 PM
"Coffee is for closers'
What, what does that phrase mean? I've never heard that one before.
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 16, 2008 12:08 PM
I feel like jumping in here because my experience with recently buying has made me take a look at my own place in the MRAB. I agree to a certain extent What that everyone holds some responsibility for "buying into" the insanity. And yet, as I first said when I started writing here, what is a guy (or a gal) to do if this is world in which they live? I personally tried to find something that fit my needs that wouldn't drive me into the poor house. The jury remains out on whether I succeeded but I am cautiously optimistic. I guess what I am trying to say is I know that I had to play by these rules to buy but I don't really feel like I am complicit in the worst of what has gone down.
Biff's point that not everyone in the world of finance is driven by greed and a desire to rip people off is obviously a good point and I have always hated lumping everyone together in that world with one brush. Blame needs to be assigned because nobody learns anything if a thorough accounting of the problems is not done. But it does get emotionally exhausting trying to finger culprits. I personally am hunkering down and trying to batten the hatches for whatever lies ahead and wishing everyone else success in the same.
Pretty impressive of you two to be able to get into it like this though.
Posted by: wasder at December 16, 2008 12:13 PM
"Coffee is for closers'
What, what does that phrase mean? I've never heard that one before.
Alec Baldwin
Glengarry Glen Ross
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TROhlThs9qY
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: Return of The What at December 16, 2008 12:14 PM
""Coffee is for closers'
What, what does that phrase mean? I've never heard that one before."
cobblehiller, you have to watch the clip The What posted (I assume it's the same scene as the one I posted earlier). I could watch that over and over.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 12:17 PM
wasder, the point you made in your first paragraph is exactly the reason I don't want to see the middle class screwed any more than they've already been. It's people like you, who simply wanted a big enough, nice home for you and your family and are working hard and honestly to obtain that. You didn't buy out of greed thinking you were going to flip it for a 100% profit in two years. You bought it to live in, presumably for the long term. Did you overpay for it? Perhaps...but whatever you paid was what you thought the home's value was and obviously you would have paid less if you could have. Who, if anyone, was to "blame" for the price you paid? Perhaps unscrupulous real estate agents who inflated the prices and assured you that you were getting a deal or perhaps other hard working, middle class people with the same hopes and dreams for their families who couldn't get what they felt they needed for less.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 12:23 PM
Yeah, its hard to say who is to blame (if that word even applies here) for the price of my house or any other. I bought the house I bought after an exhaustive search of the market and exploration of value vis a vis different neighborhoods (looked in WT, Sunset Park, Bed Stuy etc before buying and remaining in Clinton Hill). But overall are NYC houses overpriced according to most economic standards? They would seem to be. I just hope to be able to be one of the people who says years later "Glad I didn't overstretch back in the oughts (or whatever this decade ends up being called)". Jury remains out there.
Posted by: wasder at December 16, 2008 12:31 PM
"Biff we are around the same age."
What, I think you're actually much older than me, but I let that slide in light of our current cease fire. (Sorry, I couldn't resist).
"Biff's point that not everyone in the world of finance is driven by greed and a desire to rip people off"
wasder, and some of us on Wall Street even voted for Obama and are thrilled that he won!
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 12:33 PM
You guys......All this talk is scaring me!!!!
I’m getting very anxious now.
Is the worst still to come? I’m starting to think so.
Never saw this movie, but will def. now watch it.
Great clip.
BTW - first prize is a Cadillac!!
I'm a winner :)
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 12:35 PM
wasder, the bottom line is, as long as you love the home, can afford to keep it and plan on being in it for the long term, there's nothing to be gained about worrying what you paid for it and whether or not it was too much.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 12:37 PM
True enough. Thanks Biff.
Posted by: wasder at December 16, 2008 12:39 PM
"What, I think you're actually much older than me, but I let that slide in light of our current cease fire. (Sorry, I couldn't resist)."
Funny thing when I'm in a room, I look around and realize I am the oldest person there. Can someone bring back the 80's?
The What (SS here we come!)
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: Return of The What at December 16, 2008 12:50 PM
"Funny thing when I'm in a room, I look around and realize I am the oldest person there. Can someone bring back the 80's?"
With her clothes and hairstyle, BRG's doing her best to keep that decade going!
What, it's depressing to watch a sporting event and hear the announcers talk about the veterans who are in their mid-30s and when one realizes one is older than the oldest player in a given professional sport. That's why I love the kickers in the NFL; there's always at least one who is older than me...for now. You like the Jets or Giants or none of the above?
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 12:55 PM
Jets fan since Joe Namath, Damn..
You know you are old when you are the same age as the incoming President..
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: Return of The What at December 16, 2008 1:05 PM
Something freaky is going on between Biff and ‘The What’ today!?!?!?!
It’s almost endearing to watch.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 1:08 PM
"With her clothes and hairstyle, BRG's doing her best to keep that decade going!"
Mr. Biffwell,
Yes, please dispense some fashion advice! Would you like to pick out my outfits for me, so I’m not offensive, and it pleases your eyes?
Tell me, are you wearing your zoot suit today?
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 1:09 PM
Jets were lucky to pull it out against the Bills. JP Losman really screwed it up at the end. The Giants are sputtering big time towards the finish. It'll be an interesting playoff race, especially in the AFC East.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 1:10 PM
"Would you like to pick out my outfits for me, so I’m not offensive?"
You get less offensive in certain outfits?
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 1:18 PM
Oh g*d, can we please stop talking about AGE! This is making me feel more ancient by the minute What!
I thought Biff was younger than us.
Jets! Go Jets! My 6 year old nephew went to that high scoring game a few weeks ago! he's being indoctrinated young!
Mets & Jets!
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 16, 2008 1:24 PM
“You get less offensive in certain outfits?”
ooooh, I want to do a re-write on this, twisting a couple of words, dressing it up, yeilding a better effect :)
I won’t be naughty.
Noki might be studying.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 1:25 PM
Watch it BRG, or wasder might show up and want to sing Kumbaya....and then we're all in deep doo-doo!
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 16, 2008 1:25 PM
you know all kidding aside, The What presents a lot of valid points.
I realllly believe(myself included) that many of us have gotten in way over our heads. I think as a society, we all felt we "deserved" these things. It was part of the "american dream" to own a house and a car and to take our families out to a nice dinner, buy a nice bottle of wine, oh and those nice pair of shoes. etc.etc. We have become so debt laden trying to make ourselves feel better or at least equal. I do feel this whole situation with the economy will make us stronger individuals who hopefully focus back on the important things in life and not just about stuff and money.
Posted by: gemini10 at December 16, 2008 1:29 PM
it's snowing!!! awww....
Posted by: bkny at December 16, 2008 1:36 PM
In response to those who derided those who had tons of money in Madoff and didn't diversify: I actually know a bunch of people who've lost their retirement money in this and want to clarify the situation based on my converstaions with them: There are three things you need to take into account. First of all, most people had been in this fund for a while. They started out diversified, just like you said. But over time, the returns were so good and so consistent that they succumbed to the urge to mover and more of their portfolios into madoff, a little bit at a time, until suddenlly they woke up one morning and 90% of their savings were in Madoff. That doesn't excuse the behavior, but it makes it more understandable how otherwise savvy investors wound up overweighting this. Second, you have to realize that several hedge funds were invested in Madoff. I know someone who had half his money in Madoff and half in other hedge funds, so he was safe - except that those other hedge funds were all invested in Madoff, so even his diversified money went away. Finally, I know of several people who's pensions were invested by their employer in the fund. They didn't really choose where it went, and they lost those too.
So let's not all jump on the "blame the victim" bandwagon.
Posted by: Make My Heights the P Heights at December 16, 2008 1:38 PM
"Watch it BRG, or wasder might show up and want to sing Kumbaya....and then we're all in deep doo-doo!"
Watch it cobblehiller, or you and I might end up as BFFs after all. :-)
gemini10, well said. Hopefully we'll all end up stronger. I just think it's horrible that so many people have to lose their homes, jobs, etc. in the process. And while many are to blame for letting their own situations get out of control; running up their own debt buying things they didn't need and/or couldn't afford, even those who have lived modestly and within their means are being hit.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 1:38 PM
"it's snowing!!! awww...."
Not enough and it’s not sticking…...I want 24", I want to go sledding!
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 1:47 PM
Biff - thank you!
and I agree we are all to blame. sure we can sit here and blame predatory lending schemes, but we all know the basic tenets of saving and spending and when you spend much more than what you bring in, you are inviting trouble.
My favorite line in one of the more recent NY times articles about the increase of foreclosures in the 5 boroughs was that of a bankruptcy lawyer basically saying "it's just crazy to me that people are losing their homes, but are pulling up to my office in brand new escalades"...
Posted by: gemini10 at December 16, 2008 1:47 PM
MMHTPH, I didn't mean to deride anyone when I spoke about diversifying, I just assumed, badly, that people wealthier than myself were getting better advice and acting more rationally. I can see how a personal connection and the reinforcing returns were an influence. My heart totally goes out to the individuals who are suffering due to this latest insanity in the markets.
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 16, 2008 1:49 PM
"Watch it BRG, or wasder might show up and want to sing Kumbaya....and then we're all in deep doo-doo!"
One of the strange things about the world of online for me is how much more earnest my online self is than my real one. It seems many people use the cyber world to act out their aggressions and other bizarro fantasies but for some reason I come on here and become a goody two shoes when I am not in real life. Strange days.
Posted by: wasder at December 16, 2008 1:50 PM
"I want to go sledding!"
What year was that when we got that big dump of snow at New Years?
Me too! My co-worker from Florida is dying for a big snowstorm - poor kid was gypped as a child. : (
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 16, 2008 1:51 PM
I wish everyone would live within their means.
There's nothing like being debt free.
Pleople, stop spending on crap you don't need.
^^^^That's my financial advice!
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 1:52 PM
"Watch it cobblehiller, or you and I might end up as BFFs after all. :-)
All right, All right, what's going on here! There's been no bickering in days, even ol Poley went away after the homeless thing and didn't even try to bite my ankle. Biff and What are being - dare I say it - friendly, and What's even been civil with DAVE for crying outloud - which is really the holiday miracle at hand.
It can only mean one thing. The silly snow and holiday spirit pod people have taken my friends and replaced them with you...you...you...NICE PEOPLE!
I see I'm going to have to go watch the Grinch - now there's a guy who knows how to have a cranky Christmas!
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 16, 2008 1:59 PM
True that BRG!
I prefer the commas in my savings account not on my credit card bills.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at December 16, 2008 2:07 PM
Oh, ok, I'll confess. I just accidentally stole my landlord's velvet scarf. Hmmm...it's going to be a very tough Xmas for me. I know! I'll wrap it up and give it back to her! (not grinchy- more scroogey, I think). Just my contribution to the spirit of Xmas.
And yes- want more snow!! (I think that was '05 for the big 24 footer.I was in heaven.
Posted by: bxgrl at December 16, 2008 2:09 PM
"What year was that when we got that big dump of snow at New Years?"
We had some snow last year, enough to go sledding.
I think 2 or 3 years ago we had 24". I remember going to the park across the street and going sledding. Okay, I don’t have sleds, I have the round discs. But it doesn’t sound right saying, I’m going discing (discoing?). Hubby and I were the only adults among a sea of kids….great fun!
Where it's snowing
All winter through
That's where I want to be
Snowball throwing
That's what I'll do
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 2:14 PM
Not enough and it’s not sticking…...I want 24"
- Sexual Innuendo of the Day
"it's just crazy to me that people are losing their homes, but are pulling up to my office in brand new escalades"
- They'll be living in those escalades soon, if they can still afford the lease payments.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 2:16 PM
"All right, All right, what's going on here! There's been no bickering in days, even ol Poley went away after the homeless thing and didn't even try to bite my ankle. Biff and What are being - dare I say it - friendly, and What's even been civil with DAVE for crying outloud - which is really the holiday miracle at hand."
Tomorrow's headlines:
- Miss Muffet predicts home prices will skyrocket
- 11217 admits he's tired of being average looking
- SnarkSlope's joke bombs
- bxgrl attends Ratner rally
- benson wonders where all the friendly Brownstoner banter has gone
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 2:25 PM
BIFF!!!!! Shame on you!
I really like snow. I like playing with it. I like just standing still and have it hit my face. I sometimes open my mouth and taste it.
More snow please!
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 2:27 PM
Tomorrow's headlines, continued:
- BRG gets second Quote of the Day honor.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 2:28 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This may actually come true after your 2:27 post...
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 2:30 PM
Wrong about Snark...He just KILLED IT on the SF of the East post.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at December 16, 2008 2:31 PM
HA! those are great. One was particularly inspired!
more headlines:
-'The What' volunteers to work at Brownstoner's Flea for free!
- Cobblehiller denouces What, and leaves Brooklyn and Better Half for Wharton
- BRG admits to being an heiress from Caracas
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 16, 2008 2:32 PM
TownhouseLady, I was reacting to the disbelief that people expressed at all of us getting alongs so well and was listing headlines nobody would ever believe.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 2:36 PM
"This may actually come true after your 2:27 post..."
Oh, Biff, I wouldn't denounce my 2:27pm post!
btw - it stopped snowing :(
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 2:37 PM
cobblehiller, good ones!
more headlines:
- TownhouseLady finds the home of her dreams in Mill Basin.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 2:37 PM
LOL!! Now THAT is truly unbelievable.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at December 16, 2008 2:39 PM
-Montrose Morris turns out to be Polemicist
-Polemicist turns out to be BRG
-Dave turns out to be....Dave :-)
-What Marries Biff Champion
omigod- we have to stop. I'm losing my very tenuous grip on reality here.
Posted by: bxgrl at December 16, 2008 2:42 PM
"TownhouseLady, I was reacting to the disbelief that people expressed at all of us getting alongs so well and was listing headlines nobody would ever believe."
Again, Biff, you had to explain your joke!
Lame-o
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 2:42 PM
more headlines:
- Biff Champion gets Quote of the Day.
- ‘The What’ appears at a fundraiser for the NAACP.
- Real Estate Broker TownhouseLady has highest sales records in Mill Basin.
- Daveinbedsty admits to being a closeted heterosexual.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 2:47 PM
"more headlines:
- Biff Champion gets Quote of the Day
- Real Estate Broker TownhouseLady has highest sales records in Mill Basin."
BRG, please try coming up with your own material. Talk about lame-o! At least my jokes, with explanations at all, are original.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 2:49 PM
Sorry I missed all this...was out to lunch and then doing some Christmas shopping for boyfriends.
I see no one has solved the MAB, rates have been cut, the market is rallying and still the What cannot answer a simple question that I put to him about the ridiculous Overstock.com conspiracy theory website. Nothing changes.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 2:50 PM
- Polemicist is secretly on the Board of FURIE
- wasder Gets cranky
- Montrose Morris Becomes Apologist for FCR. Says was wrong to Oppose Eminent Domain.
- benson Opens Red Hook waterfront business doing ship repair (sorry benson- just could not resist)
Posted by: bxgrl at December 16, 2008 2:54 PM
"BRG, please try coming up with your own material. Talk about lame-o! At least my jokes, with explanations at all, are original."
BUT YOURS WEREN'T GOOD ENOUGH. I always find the need to re-write your mataerial.
Why don't YOU do better to begin with
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 2:55 PM
This is my personal favorite after 'snarkslope joke bombs':
Daveinbedsty admits to being a closeted heterosexual
Oh the tears, the sobbing, the fear, the self-recriminations!
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 16, 2008 2:55 PM
Ah, Finally, someone is bickering. I feel better now.
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 16, 2008 2:56 PM
"This is my personal favorite after 'snarkslope joke bombs':
Daveinbedsty admits to being a closeted heterosexual"
Thanks, Cobble.
Take that, Biff!!
Now give me some snow, and I'll be happy again.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 2:58 PM
BRG: Off to Dyker Heights this weekend to see the Christmas lights and hang at the Bridgeview Diner. I will be thinking of you while I eat my dinner.
Posted by: 11233 at December 16, 2008 2:59 PM
"BRG Does Not Bring Up Her Past QOTD"
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 3:01 PM
" I did not have sexual realations with that woman."
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 3:03 PM
11233 - I was there on Saturday, during the day, walking around. (I'll go back at night this week). The displays seem tame compared to a couple of years ago. Of course the usual suspects on 84th between 11th & 12th still have their displays. My favorite, in a very tacky way, is the one on the south side of the street with every plastic nutcracker going up the stairs, and the seat for Santa. I actually think they added more of a menagerie this year.
Make sure you go around the corner to 12th Avenue and 83rd Street, there's a house with every imaginable platic seasonal blow-up in their front yard. I couldn't stop taking pictures.
Also, if you're driving, head down to 80th and Colional in Bay Ridge, there's a corner house that's blitzed out in christmas craziness, bring your sunglasses for this one.
Have fun, it's worthy sights.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 3:12 PM
Hey,I'm actually enjoying these headlines!
Here's my try:
"Polemecist develops ranch-home subdivision in Lodi, NJ. What named exclusive marketing agent".
By the way, Bxgrl - good one!
Posted by: benson at December 16, 2008 3:15 PM
"went christmas shopping for some boyfriends." dave how many boyfriends do you have? youre coming across as pretty greedy. just the other day you were bragging about having over THREE houses now youre claiming multiple boyfriends. a house hog and a man hog.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at December 16, 2008 3:21 PM
"BRG Does Not Bring Up Her Past QOTD"
DIBS wins
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 3:23 PM
rob...both can become burdensome at times.
It reminded me of an old cartoon in less PC days..."If its got tits or tires it's gonna give tou trouble."
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 3:23 PM
More headlines:
- Benson and BRG hang out all night at the Brownstoner Party Discussing Contextual Architecture.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 3:24 PM
"rob...both can become burdensome at times.
It reminded me of an old cartoon in less PC days..."If its got tits or tires it's gonna give tou trouble."
Dibs...Your boyfriends have breasts and your houses are on wheels?
You are white trash!
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 3:26 PM
How about this one?
Montrose Morris and BRG announce a new walking tour: "the fine points of Fedder's architecture"?
Posted by: benson at December 16, 2008 3:26 PM
More headlines:
- sebb proclaims, "House of the Day is way overpriced"
- pierre de taille admits the "we" in all of his posts are actually him and his imaginary friend
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 3:27 PM
More headlines:
- Benson pals around with the immature Brownstoner crowd. Oh wait...
:-)
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 3:28 PM
I think we've now gotten to the point that the "Open Thread" was meant for. It took a few days but we have landed.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 3:28 PM
"Miss Muffett Signs Contract"
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 3:29 PM
Polemicist and cobblehiller detente planned for New Years Day.
"Poley quoted as saying, I know she's a commie, but I just adore her! She's so cute when her knee jerks!"
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 16, 2008 3:30 PM
"BRG Does Not Bring Up Her Past QOTD"
"DIBS wins"
Biff Loses!
- BRG is honored by Brownstoner with the most poignant 'Quote of the Day' for 2008.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 3:30 PM
^^^ I guess Dibs’ Headline is false
Brought UP....HA
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 3:31 PM
Montrose Morris and BRG announce a new walking tour: "the fine points of Fedder's architecture"?
pierre de taille admits the "we" in all of his posts are actually him and his imaginary friend
"Miss Muffett Signs Contract"
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha....these are beautiful!
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 16, 2008 3:31 PM
- BRG is honored by Brownstoner with the most poignant 'Quote of the Day' for 2008.
You've gone too far BRG!
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 16, 2008 3:32 PM
"How about this one?
Montrose Morris and BRG announce a new walking tour: "the fine points of Fedder's architecture"?"
Okay, Benson...this had me laughing out loud!!!
See, we're not that bad.
Headline:
- 'The What and Biff go on a double date with BRG and Benson.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 3:33 PM
Oh lord, Miss Muffett just got QOTD. And that's not a joke! So much for that honor having any prestige at this point. And to think it was spurred on by my crack to her...damn!
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 3:36 PM
"- BRG is honored by Brownstoner with the most poignant 'Quote of the Day' for 2008.
You've gone too far BRG!"
Don't you mean:
BRG, your 3:30pm headline is uncalled for!
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 3:36 PM
"The What and Biff go on a double date with BRG and Benson."
OK, that one had me laughing aloud. Hey, we've achieved a "kumbaya" apotheosis on Brownsotner!
I'll agree to go on the date only if I can bring Polemecist along.
Have a good day all!
Posted by: benson at December 16, 2008 3:39 PM
Miss Muffett sits on tuffet and scares spider away!
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 16, 2008 3:40 PM
"PropJoe wins Nobel Peace Prize"
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 3:42 PM
Don't you start that Kumbaya business Benson, we'll have none of that here!
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 16, 2008 3:44 PM
I laughed so hard tears ran down my face.
More headlines:
-Nokilissa finds ideal house: We Love It! 5 bathrooms, 18 bedrooms and an all original 60's Kitchen with Avocado appliances! Says Noki- Now THIS is Quality!
- Mr. B EXPOSED!!! What found with porn pictures of Mr. B in Bra and thongs
- DIBS Confesses- owns bodega with Mexican friend, rents apartment in Park Slope
Posted by: bxgrl at December 16, 2008 3:46 PM
DIBS Confesses- owns bodega with Mexican friend, rents apartment in Park Slope, drives Honda
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 16, 2008 3:55 PM
- pierre de taille admits the "we" in all of his posts are actually him and his imaginary friend
Haha--man I have been wondering about this. Thanks for clearing that up Biff.
Posted by: wasder at December 16, 2008 3:59 PM
150 year-old Victorian in Crown Heights torn down to make way for a Pizza Hut. Local resident Montrose Morris looks forward to fresh delivery of "NY-style Pizza"
Posted by: benson at December 16, 2008 4:00 PM
Just got back from inspection.
"Inspection reveals old house needs $85,000 worth of work."
All too believable, unfortunately.
Is there some newfangled greedy, delusional way to pay for this?
Posted by: mopar at December 16, 2008 4:05 PM
Credit default swaps mopar. they're a sure thing!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 4:07 PM
"Is there some newfangled greedy, delusional way to pay for this?"
uumm, yes. Read the latest headlines (Madoff)
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 4:08 PM
mopar, what are you buying? sorry, I missed this news
Posted by: Ringo at December 16, 2008 4:15 PM
Mopar, is this the house you were leaning toward?
Does it need work to make it livable or can you do the work over time?
Evaluate the work, is it structural, mechanical, cosmetic. If it's cosemtic you can always do the work later, but if you have beams ready to fall on your head or a pipe that's close to bursting, well that's another story.
If you love the house, can you knock off 100K from the price?
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 4:18 PM
A house museum! It has a speaking tube.
Posted by: mopar at December 16, 2008 4:26 PM
Can you do it if they lower the price? (I love speaking tubes. My landlord has a set of 3 in her kitchen)
Posted by: bxgrl at December 16, 2008 4:30 PM
mopar...do you know the inspector well?? In most cases, inspectors feel it is their job to come up with everything imaginable and feel they need to make this the highest number to justify their existence. I'm not being facetious. If you have a stone foundation that's perfectly fine they will tell you it needs to be repointed for $7,000.
What are the largest items??
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 4:32 PM
- Montrose Morris Confesses- I hate old houses. I just want to keep up the property values in my fringey neighborhood.
(hysterical, benson. You know she's gonna get you!)
Posted by: bxgrl at December 16, 2008 4:34 PM
We love the house. LOVE. We want to marry it.
Our idea was to upgrade the electrical ($15,000) and paint, plaster, and refinish the floors ($5,000 to $20,000 depending).
But it's been empty for quite a while and three fixtures started leaking when we turned on the water. The boiler appears to be held together with a brick and a stick (literally).
A few other things also need attention, but the really major thing is the plumbing. The inspector says do it all: $25,000 to $40,000 for the plumbing. We don't know any better.
It's possible they might knock some off the already very low price.
Posted by: mopar at December 16, 2008 4:38 PM
those prices for that work are not unreasonable
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 4:42 PM
You guys are too funny. I enjoyed all of them. Some were brilliant. Give me a few minutes, and I'll be back.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at December 16, 2008 4:45 PM
Who knows about those leaks. Maybe they were just little valves that need replacing. Or maybe the whole place is about to turn into Niagara Falls. I will say one thing: The water pressure was great, there was no rust, and some of the pipes in the basement level were fairly new copper in good condition.
I would prefer not to replace anything that isn't actually broken.
However, I also realize it's also cheaper to do it all at once.
(Note: We are not changing anything in the kitchens and baths, and there is no tile, so we don't need to replace pipes now because we're putting in fancy tile walls.)
Posted by: mopar at December 16, 2008 4:46 PM
House Museum...sounds like it's full of details.
Speaking Tube....oooohhh!!!
Look at the numbers:
Cosmetics aside; cause heck even the prime houses might not be cosmetically pleasing to the new owners; paint colors, finish on floor, etc.
You should really be looking at the inspector's assessment of the mechanicals of the house. Can you live with some for a while? What would you need to do right away? Can you move in and then do some of the work? Etc. Etc. Etc.
If you love the house, offer less....the ball is in your court.
The economy is not improving, I think you probably have the upper hand at this point.
Good luck and have a house warming party and invite us all.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 4:46 PM
Give us the listing. We can start a bidding war!!! :)
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 4:52 PM
Mopar, what did the inspector say you need to replace plumbing wise?
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 4:52 PM
Sorry, I don't mean to pry, but replacing a couple of valves here and there doesn't = 25-40K.
Does he think you need to replace the main and the branches?
It that's the case, it's an undertaking.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 5:02 PM
The inspector recommended replacing the water lines, the heating lines, and the waste lines for $25,000. Then he added that if it turns out we have to replace "the stack" the whole thing will come to $40,000. I'm not sure if those numbers include a new boiler and installation ($7,000 to $10,000).
He allowed that if we wanted to be conservative, we could try just replacing the water lines.
There is one other funny thing: The kitchen sink vent pipe, which goes through the wall up to the roof is blocked so it needs to be unblocked.
But when we turned on the water, the back porch toilet started leaking (just a joint I think) and the parlor floor toilet started leaking (at least a joint and maybe more) and the parlor floor bathroom sink bowl is leaking around the drain (inspector said the bowl was cracked but I didn't see it).
So I suppose we could just try fixing those specific leaks, the vent, and all the valves and see what happens. It would probably be smart to change the boiler though. And maybe the heating pipes, since those can burst when you're not home.
The one nice thing is that most of the plumbing is exposed and/or runs up the light shaft, so it's easy to access.
Posted by: mopar at December 16, 2008 5:05 PM
Unless you plan to do this without permits, you'll need an architect. I'd recommend Michael McCaww who has the storefront office on Stuyvesant Ave near MacDonough. He's really great to work with and will negotiate all the permit stuff. Additionally it's good to get an architects input when you are thinking about the major stuff because they usually think of things that you won't regarding room positioning, etc
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 5:07 PM
Are the supply lines lead, iron or copper. If copper then they are relatively new already. The leaks are largely due to valves like he says otherwise a leak in a line would be constant and you'd see/hear major water damage. Stacks made out of cast iron usually last forever. But yes, a stack replacement will cost a lot more. But a three storey house with 2 families or less can be PVC now.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 5:10 PM
Mopar;
Regarding "There is one other funny thing: The kitchen sink vent pipe, which goes through the wall up to the roof is blocked so it needs to be unblocked."
THIS is the "stack" to which the inspector was refering. If you yourself noticed that it is blocked in one place, and that water comes out in different places when you turn a valve on, the stack is blocked in many places. Better to get it replaced.
Also, the stack and water lines have nothing to do with the boiler. That is a different job.
It sounds like you have a gut rehab on your hands. I agree with DIBS that you should call in an architect.
Posted by: benson at December 16, 2008 5:11 PM
Teasers (since I'm too long winded for mere headlines):
Brownstoner reader "Benson" revealed to be brother-in-law of blog founder, Mr. B, and cousin of head writer Lisa. "That's why I can't get frikkin' QOTD. It's a conspiracy", he groused.
Bxgrl and Polemecist revealed to be mother and son. Poley still harbors childhhod resentment for attending Upper West Side liberal gatherings with likes of Leonard Berstein and various Black Panthers.
BRG to be promoted to head writer in new version of "Sex in the City" to be set in Brooklyn's famed Park Slope.
SnarkSlope to compose new musical. Working title - On the Slope: Pal Joey meets Annie in a Little Shop of Horrors.
Biff Champion reveals secret longing to join cloistered Trappist monks observing vows of silence.
Dave in Bed Stuy to open gay B&B's in Bed Stuy, Philadelphia, Mexico, Hong Kong, Paris, London, Phillipines, Soeul, Lagos, Sidney, Dubai, Lisbon, Sao Paolo.......
Montrose Morris revealed to be owner of all of Crown Heights North. Retro looking Pizza Hut to be built at corner of Nostrand and Pacific. "It's contextural", she said, "and there is an empty lot there."
Posted by: Montrose Morris at December 16, 2008 5:19 PM
Vent pipes get blocked for lots of reasons...debris, dead birds!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 16, 2008 5:20 PM
Why did he think all the plumbing lines need replacing?
Sure you can probably do some repairs here and there, but sounds like you're ultimately going to need to replace all the stacks.
I doubt the 40K includes the new boiler; but then again, I don't know how big the house is; and how much plumbing work is involved.
Just a thought, when you replace a plumbing stack, you're going to have to open up the entire shaft, access the walls behind the fixtures and access through the floors. Not a pretty job. You might as well re-do the bathrooms at that point. And don't forget patching everything up to make it look good; that's not included in the plumbing number.
You might want to post this in the 'forum' to get more feedback.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 5:23 PM
Montrose...that's hysterical!!!!
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 5:27 PM
You left out tel Aviv, MM >:-}
MM- true confession time. He's my....my....my ...uck, uck...choke..doggie groomer! SOB! the horror! the horror! I tried to help the poor guy. I did. He's living in a cardboard box just under the Brooklyn Bridge footings. It's a good box too- double wall, corrugated. They cost money!
Posted by: bxgrl at December 16, 2008 5:28 PM
DIBS - I sent you an email yesterday. Did you get it? Not sure I have your correct email.
Holla back.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 5:38 PM
Montrose - well done!
BRG, you and DIBS don't converse enough here during the day that you two have to now email?? Sheesh!
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 5:39 PM
Biff, shhhh.....what happened to your secret longing?
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 5:41 PM
^^^^ wait, that sounds like it's coming from the Head writer of 'Sex and the City"
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 5:41 PM
"Biff Champion reveals secret longing to join cloistered Trappist monks observing vows of silence."
No, I've only taken a vow of celibacy. Actually, I didn't exactly take a vow and it wasn't exactly intentional...just worked out that way.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 5:44 PM
As head writer of SatC...Biff's 5:44 will be tossed out....zzzzzzz!
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 5:48 PM
Can we please go back to discussing finance so BRG goes catatonic and then leaves this thread?
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 5:51 PM
"No, I've only taken a vow of celibacy. Actually, I didn't exactly take a vow and it wasn't exactly intentional...just worked out that way."
Can I write you into the script? The storyline can be very interesting!
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 5:52 PM
"Can we please go back to discussing finance so BRG goes catatonic and then leaves this thread?"
Keep talking and I will go 'catatonic'!
Please fullfill your secert longing....ssshhhh, keep quiet!
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 5:56 PM
"BRG to be promoted to head writer in new version of "Sex in the City" to be set in Brooklyn's famed Park Slope."
Good idea!
Are the supply lines lead, iron or copper. If copper then they are relatively new already. The leaks are largely due to valves like he says otherwise a leak in a line would be constant and you'd see/hear major water damage. Stacks made out of cast iron usually last forever. But yes, a stack replacement will cost a lot more. But a three storey house with 2 families or less can be PVC now."
Stack is cast iron, some of the supply lines are copper and relatively new, rest are brass, and at least one waste line (coming from the leaking toilet on the back porch) is lead. I am pretty sure he recommended replacing everything because of its age. It's a blanket statement. It's a three-story, two-family house plus cellar. All the pipes are exposed (except in the floor) and we are not changing anything so we do need licensed workers and permits but we do not need an architect. But I appreciate the recommendation and will keep his name just in case.
Dave, others, do you think we need to replace all of this or just a few things?
Posted by: mopar at December 16, 2008 6:01 PM
If we are going to have a Sex & City type tv show based on people who live in brownstones and have problems with their kitchen sink vent pipes and get laid off, then we definitely need a character who works for a mysterious hedge fund, owns eight houses, and has even more boyfriends, at least one of whom is a Mexican boyfriend who is married (but whose wife approves).
Posted by: mopar at December 16, 2008 6:05 PM
Oh, wait, only architects can get permits? Then we need one. Sorry, reading too fast.
Posted by: mopar at December 16, 2008 6:10 PM
"BRG to be promoted to head writer in new version of "Sex in the City" to be set in Brooklyn's famed Park Slope."
"Good idea!"
I'm seriously on this.
I called my lit. agent and told him to get me in on the new show.
If anybody is reading this and can pass me along. I'm willing to write a spec script....Serious.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 6:15 PM
Mopar, If your're just replacing plumbing fixtures in the same locations and not moving them more than 3', a plumber can do it with a repair slip...no need for an architect.
I'm not sure how muchof a stack you can replace on a repair slip, but I can certainly ask for you or look it up.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 6:19 PM
"I'm seriously on this. I called my lit. agent and told him to get me in on the new show. If anybody is reading this and can pass me along. I'm willing to write a spec script....Serious."
BRG, I hate to break this to you, but head writers are typically expected to be able to write, both in a humorous and grammatically correct manner.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 6:29 PM
"BRG, I hate to break this to you, but head writers are typically expected to be able to write, both in a humorous and grammatically correct manner."
Oh, Biff, you wait!!!! [raising my fisted hand in the air]
You have no idea!!
Why don't you go back to your vow of silence...or celibacy...whichever one will keep you away.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 6:36 PM
^^^^ yes, I set that up for you, Biff. Let's see what you can do with that, Mr. Corny Joke Man!
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 6:38 PM
"yes, I set that up for you, Biff. Let's see what you can do with that, Mr. Corny Joke Man!"
BRG, sorry, but I've already got a great straight man in DIBS. Well, you know what I mean...
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 6:39 PM
Mopar, I suggest you post your question on the forum, where MasterPlvmber might see it. He sounds like the real deal and is very generous about giving information to Brownstoners.
If you are in love with this house, I sure hope it works out. In my experience it can go either way: a big deal turns out to be not such a big deal after all; a "little fix" turns out to be a major undertaking. Maybe this is one of those big deals that can be managed.
Posted by: dylanfan at December 16, 2008 6:41 PM
Like I said....Mr. Corny Joke Man.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 6:42 PM
"In my experience it can go either way: a big deal turns out to be not such a big deal after all; a "little fix" turns out to be a major undertaking.
Ah. Truer words were never spoken....
BRG, I hope you're taking notes. I think we seriously have the makings of a hit show here. Why should 20-somethings living in lofts dominate the airwaves?
Will post this question later in the Forum. Thanks so much, everyone.
Posted by: mopar at December 16, 2008 6:53 PM
"Like I said....Mr. Corny Joke Man."
Better corny than plain unfunny.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 7:01 PM
First episode of the new "Sex and The City":
BRG and Benson open up an adult toy shop together. Argue about venue.
Posted by: benson at December 16, 2008 7:01 PM
First episode of the new "Sex and The City" = Last episode of the new "Sex and The City", if BRG's doing the writing!
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 7:03 PM
Goodnight, I just love getting the last word in.
Posted by: Biff Champion at December 16, 2008 7:03 PM
Mopar...I'm serious.
I recall hearing a show like that is being developed. I did make a few phone calls. But no one in my circle knew anything. Dramedy is not my genre. But heck, I could give it a shot.
"Better corny than plain unfunny."
Yes, like you, Biff.
"BRG and Benson open up an adult toy shop together. Argue about venue."
Okay, when Benson is posting funnier comments than Biff, the world is upside down.
Another very Funny one, Benson
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 7:07 PM
Biff, Good night, I think I just got the last word in....ha, ha, ha!
Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 16, 2008 7:09 PM
I'm serious too. You may recall I have an uncanny ability to pick potential hit shows: First The What on YouTube and now all of us on TV.
Posted by: mopar at December 16, 2008 11:25 PM
First word in this morning. Sad.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 17, 2008 8:34 AM
OMG, this open thread is hilarious. Doesn't it scare anyone that everyone is getting along so nicely. Just joking ROFL
I'm starting to miss the one topic start and then veering off into somthing else. To much to keep up with in the open thread :)
Posted by: BrookLynn816 at December 17, 2008 9:46 AM
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