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December 4, 2008

House of the Day: 177 Maple Street

This three-story limestone house at 177 Maple Street in Prospect Lefferts Gardens was an Open House Pick back in September when it was an FSBO listed at $950,000; now Brooklyn Properties has the listing for $929,000. The house appears to be in good shape and, if you can look past some of the furnishings, has quite a bit of original charm; the kitchen, bathroom and yard aren't going to help its chances. Seems to us it'll take a little more price-cutting to get this one done. What do you think?
177 Maple Street [Brooklyn Properties] GMAP P*Shark

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" and. if you can look past some of the furnishings,"

Mr B...you're getting to sound as snobby and as catty as your posters. :)

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 4, 2008 1:25 PM

FWIW this house is on one of the nicest Lefferts Manor blocks, one that is many peoples' favorite (although my own favorite LM block is Midwood I--not that I don't love Midwood II, where I live).

The pictures in this listing will not win any prize, but they're far better than the ones in the original FSBO listing, which were incredibly bad and made the house look quite unattractive, which was far from reality.

BTW, as of a few days ago, there was still a large FSBO sign in front of this house--perhaps it's gone now--I haven't looked.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at December 4, 2008 1:31 PM

BOB...since I don't know the neighborhood I did the once around the block on the Streetscape link. It really does look to be a very nice block.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 4, 2008 1:35 PM

Sorry, Dave, couldn't help it.

Posted by: brownstoner at December 4, 2008 1:36 PM

This is a great block in a charming neighborhood. I just can't believe that people would do cheap, Home Depot kitchen, bath and back yard and then expect to get nearly a million dollars for their home.

Posted by: JoeBushwick at December 4, 2008 1:42 PM

Furnishings can be an indication of more than taste or cattiness -- the owner's age/upkeep of the house, for instance. It looks like this one has been "updated to sell" -- never a good sign, since those renos are usually cheap but then the seller looks to make back what they spent and then some, which makes them unreasonable about price. Given the time it has been on the market, and current climate, I'd say it should drop another 100,000.

Posted by: househunt at December 4, 2008 1:46 PM

Bob, do all the two-story limestones in LM have full-width parlors like this? Seems like a good use of space. My place (Hawthorne I)has pocket doors between the entry hall and the parlor, and I think it was built at the same time.

I vote Rutland I for nicest block in the neighborhood.

Posted by: Frederick Law Homestead at December 4, 2008 1:47 PM

"Sorry, Dave, couldn't help it."

None of us can help it, Mr. B.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at December 4, 2008 1:48 PM

That back yard is spirit killing.

Posted by: DeLepp at December 4, 2008 1:53 PM

Thanks Dave--I hadn't realized that Google had finally gotten around to posting street views of PLG east of Flatbush Avenue. I enjoyed seeing what they have for my block, the photos of which seem to have been taken about a year ago.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at December 4, 2008 1:56 PM

Home Depot, indeed. I wonder how much love went into what the listing describes as "loving repair"?!?!

Posted by: househunt at December 4, 2008 1:58 PM

No matter what one does or doesn't do in their kitchen and baths, somebody's going to be unhappy. These rooms garner the strongest opinions on this blog, as well as in real life. After all, those are the rooms that change the most with styles and materials of the times, as well as have the most expensive remodels. There have been extremely expensive homes with extremely expensive kitchens and baths that I would tear out as fast as some of the lower end examples of same, given the opportunity and dollars. It's all a matter of personal taste.

That's not to say most of them aren't livable/safe/in working order, and couldn't be lived with for terms of sale. I would think most people would prefer to remodel in some way, shape or form, and probably factor that into their pricing formulas.

This is a pretty house.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at December 4, 2008 2:07 PM

Rutland I is nice but Maple I is my favorite. I think this house is over priced.

Fred - looks like they took the doors out. I don't know for sure, just my house tour experiences....

Posted by: bkny at December 4, 2008 2:07 PM

Actually, I wonder what the situation of the seller(s) is/are. The interiors look 100-percent staged.

Posted by: BrooklynButler at December 4, 2008 2:19 PM

"Househunt" is spot on.

I think that if you're going to redo a bathroom it needs to be period correct in some ways (tiling and fixtures). Otherwise it just sticks out like a sore thumb--like this one. And renovating a bathroom is no fun, unlike a kitchen.

Kitchens are tough. There's no percentage in remodeling to sell, obviously, so you might was well go with what you like and can afford, and just assume some people will hate it and others will like it. At least this one is usable, and you could probably just change the cabinet doors and counters and be pretty happy.

I'm a big fan of limestones. Don't know how strong the market is right now for PLG, but I'd assume this will sit at this price.

Posted by: Bolder at December 4, 2008 2:20 PM

The backyard is fine. There's new fencing, plenty flowerbeds. It's just Fall on a cloudy day with leaves all over and the annuals are dead. Plant some perennials that stay green in those flowerbeds and do a container garden out there with some really great large pots. In which you can even do some small trees. I really like container gardens.

It's so hard to please with kitchens. You only ever like the ones you design. Logically it would seem best to leave an old kitchen in when selling because then people can put what they want in there. But then buyers (and bloggers) get turned off by the old kitchen and can't visualize the potential. I've never seen one kitchen on Brownstoner for which there weren't just as many haters as there were fans, even the expensive, non-home-depot ones.

Posted by: traditionalmod at December 4, 2008 2:34 PM

The neighbours houses look nice but for some reason the back yard sends me into a fit of depression... what the hell is it?

I think I'm going to have to go home.

Posted by: Aussie at December 4, 2008 2:40 PM

You mean back to the outback???

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 4, 2008 2:45 PM

"Bob, do all the two-story limestones in LM have full-width parlors like this?"

No, I think there was a wall removed here. However many late 1890s--1910s houses (such as those in PLG) have floor plans that are more open than older row houses.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at December 4, 2008 2:47 PM

we really like this area of PLG i.e Lefferts Manor. This limestone exterior is almost pristine and there are plenty of remaining details.
We agree Bob, Brooklyn Properties has done a great job with the pictures but that kitchen needs a lot of help.
MM we see what you are saying about personal taste but for the kind asking price the kitchen and bathrooms are cheap looking and diminish the craftsmanship of the other details.
We are bearish here and think this is an $800K house at the max especially with that single family covenant thing.

Posted by: pierre de taille at December 4, 2008 2:55 PM

No I just meant away from work, but the outback would fix the problem too.

You know Dave I looked into buying an eco tours business in Noosa, Australia. It's definitely time for a change and a more simple life.

Posted by: Aussie at December 4, 2008 2:57 PM

This place is pretty close to the park, but is there an entrance to it close to there.

Greenery and a wood fence is what this back yard needs, that looks like a pool fence.

Posted by: Aussie at December 4, 2008 3:31 PM

Isn't anyone going to comment on the floors? Those downstairs have clearly been replaced. I've been on the block and when you have the original floors the inlay makes it clear there was once a wall on the parlor level. The carpeting upstairs may be protecting the old wood or indicate that it's gone there too. I'd never buy a "vintage" house without the original floors in decent shape. There are a lot of things you can replace/restore, but I've never seen proper parlor floors redone well enough for my taste. I'm loving the old doors upstairs though.

Posted by: ownhs at December 4, 2008 3:41 PM

The house is nice, but defintely not nearly as nice as most LM houses. I've been in plenty of the two story homes and they usually have more original details, woodwork, floors, etc. Not to mention the low cost kitchen. So I tend to agree with Pierre on the price(around 800K), which hardly seems "bearish" in this market--but who knows these days.

Posted by: shillstoner at December 4, 2008 3:52 PM

"This place is pretty close to the park, but is there an entrance to it close to there"

The Lincoln Road entrance to PP is at Lincoln and Ocean Ave., 3-1/2 blocks from this house. It's one block closer to the park than my house(from which it's a 7--8 minute walk).

Posted by: Bob Marvin at December 4, 2008 4:00 PM

Thanks Bob

Posted by: Aussie at December 4, 2008 4:09 PM

Such a shame people rip out walls. A deal breaker for me. (Floors too...)

Posted by: mopar at December 4, 2008 4:36 PM

I went to the open house when this was still a FSBO. It definitely needs some interior decorating. In addition to the aesthetics of the kitchen, I recall it being small. I think the price needs to come down some more, especially in this market. Maybe $800K is a fair price. BTW, nothing wrong with the backyard. It's quite spacious. The deck could use some work, but that easy.

Posted by: jurist at December 4, 2008 5:14 PM

To me there are three things that determine price: location, square footage, and general condition. The rest is just window dressing. This house is big, in a great location (for PLG), and everything works. Nothing wrong with their furniture, either, which, by the way, one assumes is not included.

I predict that the current obsession with kitchen and bathroom appliances is going to be one of those things in twenty years that people look back on and say, "oh yeah, the oughts. That's when everyone thought they needed a $5 thousand dollar stove. How tacky."

Posted by: Heather at December 4, 2008 8:54 PM

As much as I like PLG's limestones, before the recent craziness, none of them were going for this. This one won't either. The site list "Good condition". The one picture of one bathroom was hideous and no pics of the other. Will people ever learn - when selling a house that clearly has lots of period detail, bathroom renos aren't necessarily a good thing. Freshen up the look, don't destroy it. For example, when I bought my brownstone, one of the bathrooms was an updated disaster - an acrylic tub enclosure with soap holders and a $79 Home Depot vanity. I'm cringing just thinking about it. Anyway, I put back a clawfoot tub (the old owner took it out) with a telephone faucet/handshower, a pedestal sink with matching faucet and a huge elegant mirror. Thank goodness, in his rush to modernize, he didn't tile the whole bathroom. I put in (full height) beadboard with finish moulding and hung some art. When, and if, I get bored or ever sell the house, I can repaint or the new owners can take the beadboard down and tile. Much less work than demo'ing tile.

Posted by: i_heart_brooklyn at December 5, 2008 1:16 AM

i_heart_brooklyn, thank you for your post. I appreciate the ideas about how to "freshen up the look, don't destroy it." Question for those with clawfoot tubs and beadboard surrounds (which were in fact the original finishing in the two families!): Any special recommendations re keeping everything dry and clean?

Posted by: mopar at December 5, 2008 11:23 AM

Curtains! But really, we have a clawfoot with shower head and the curtain wraps around the whole thing and keeps the walls and wood floors dry.

Heather, while this house may be "big" by apartment standards, it is the size of 2 floors of a standard brownstone. 929K for 1/2 a brownstone of this quality in this location in this market seems unrealistic. Regardless of the kitchen.

This house is priced at 429K more than the very similar house in Brooklyn College area that Brownstoner recently featured (same realtor). LM is certainly a nicer location, but not so much nicer to account for such a huge difference.

Posted by: shillstoner at December 5, 2008 12:00 PM

mopar - I don't have a shower curtain LOL! Surprisingly, water doesn't really get all over but the errand sprays get wiped down right away and its all good :) I do have tile floors though, so I don't have to worry about warped wood.

Posted by: i_heart_brooklyn at December 9, 2008 12:33 AM

I don't know if anyone will even see this, but I thought it might be fun to mention that I'm an architect and am currently in the process of renovating this home.

Believe it or not, it did look like this when I saw it right before the closing, when the owner still lived there. She had been in it for 50. At one point a long time ago, the owner took down the wall around the parlor and when they did that, added a layer of maple on top of the existing flooring, and re-did the kitchen.

The rest of the building is in great shape and the block is very nice. We'll be doing a little cosmetic work and opening up the parlor floor even more. If anyone's interested, I can post some pictures as the work is completed.

Jim Hill, RA, LEED AP
Urban Pioneering Architecture

Posted by: JimHill at September 21, 2009 1:17 PM

« Condo of the Day: 264 Cumberland Street A Starbucks for Sheepshead Bay? »

December 4, 2008

House of the Day: 177 Maple Street

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