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November 18, 2008
Tuesday Links

Clinton Hill HDR. Photo by mototraveler from the Brownstoner Flickr pool.
2 Robbers Killed in Shootout at a Brooklyn Store [NY Times]
Fiend Preys on Women Near Starrett City [NY Post]
Pols Rip Bid to Reopen Jail House [NY Post]
Lawsuit: Prisoner Transfer at HOD Is Plot to Avoid Review [NY Daily News]
Breaking News: LICH Divisions Saved! [Brooklyn Paper]
Brooklyn Residents to Protest Broadway Triangle Rezoning [The Real Deal]
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Comments
I hesitate, but I'm going to say it anyway, because I suspect there may be others who feel likewise.
I was disarmed last night to find myself feeling horribly sad for the owner, who is in critical condition, and who is the father of two baby girls and another young child, but feeling nothing but good old fashioned, dirty Harry style, satisfied righteousness over the two who were killed. I actually thought something along the lines of: serves em' right; and that's two down and two less to shoot anyone else in the near future.
Jesus.
Posted by: Nokilissa at November 18, 2008 9:10 AM
I'm with you Nokilissa.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 18, 2008 9:14 AM
Nokilissa, Thank you for being so honest. I think these feelings come from the frustration of seeing the revolving door of criminals returning to the streets while hundreds of millions of dollars is spent on the judicial system. Society has failed when stores are robbed or someone is sent to prision. We spend $60K per year on keeping someone in prision, but refuse to spend a fraction of that on the front end; family planning, early education, childcare, etc. I had the same feeling.
Posted by: Jebby at November 18, 2008 9:23 AM
I'm with Nokilissa too.
Jebby: are you for real? NYC has such a generous social-service sector. I travel often to countries like Malaysia, where one gets a reality check. The folks in our projects live like kings compared to folks there, yet one never sees the type of thuggery that one does here.
How about this for an idea: crime is not a failure of society, but a failure of the criminals in question to integrate themselves into society, and a failure on their part to take advantage of opportunities here.
Posted by: benson at November 18, 2008 9:32 AM
"How about this for an idea: crime is not a failure of society, but a failure of the criminals in question to integrate themselves into society, and a failure on their part to take advantage of opportunities here."
Does this applies to President Bush?
The What
Someday this war is gonna end....
Posted by: Return of The What at November 18, 2008 9:37 AM
No, he totally took advantage. Totally, and to our loss.
Posted by: dittoburg at November 18, 2008 9:40 AM
Bring back Giuliani. Bloomberg might be a better businessman but Giuliani is the only one with the cajones to address this sort of thing which is necessary on an ongoing basis.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 18, 2008 9:46 AM
Getting back to the issue at hand, I would like to take a quick survery of the social services that NYC offers:
-600,000 folks in public housing,8% of the population;
-New York State spends more on medicaid than Florida and Texas (both of which have similiar levels of population) COMBINED.
-roughly 800,000 units of housing under rent-control, roughly 25% of all housing units in the city.
-NYC spends something like $14,000 per student in its public grammar schools, more than any other entity in the nation.
-low or no-cost children's health insurance for the working poor, as seen in the avertisements plastered all over the subways.
-a heavily-subsidized mass-transit system.
-subsidized child-care for the working poor.
All of this comes at the expense of a heavy tax burden, with marginal tax rates (federal+state+city) of 40% or higher kicking in at MIDDLE-CLASS income levels.
Tell me, Jebby, where is the "failure of society"? How much do we have to spend before we are not considered a "failure"?
If I sound upset, it is because I am. I am tired of being heavily taxed to pay for these services, and then being told by folks like you that we are a "failure" because some thug won't get off his ass and work, but instead decides to pull out a pistol and rob an immigrant store-owner.
Posted by: benson at November 18, 2008 9:53 AM
Sorry, what, What?
I'm missing your question about Mr. President. Are you asking whether we ascribe his miserable and criminal eight years to a failure of society or squarely onto him?
I'm also aware, in an oddly detached way, that these two men had (hopefully) mothers & families who loved them and were at one time little kids with hopes and possibilities. It just stuns me how badly awry it can go, and how little I care about them once they cross a certain age threshold. And I'm utterly terrified at the sheer numbers of guns we likely have on our streets and in the hands of guys like these. I'm thinking of the shootings in Ft. Greene and Clinton Hill lately, and the body on Washington Park, and the teen found shot in the head in his car yesterday and so on. It feels like it's getting worse. Maybe I'm wrong.
Posted by: Nokilissa at November 18, 2008 9:59 AM
God Benson, I'm sort of with you here. I see your points and it makes me sad and frustrated and pessimistic. WTF? Where do we go, what do we do? How do we even start? And can the joy of Obama's win and the hope of his office even begin an amelioration of the problem?
Posted by: Nokilissa at November 18, 2008 10:02 AM
Nokilissa, your feeling of justice being served is normal and I would venture is felt by most who read such stories. The same is true with your sense of sadness and shock at how you can feel hardened to people who cross the line and become violent criminals. It can truly sadden anyone, especially parents, to think that some thug was once an innocent child. It does not absolve them of their behavior though, but is depressing to think about nonetheless. I don't have any answers, other than the usual - it comes back to parenting and education, and with young boys, fathers or strong father figures to help guide them.
Posted by: 1842 at November 18, 2008 10:10 AM
" And I'm utterly terrified at the sheer numbers of guns we likely have on our streets and in the hands of guys like these. "
Welcome to New York.
"I'm thinking of the shootings in Ft. Greene and Clinton Hill lately, and the body on Washington Park, and the teen found shot in the head in his car yesterday and so on. It feels like it's getting worse. Maybe I'm wrong."
No the reporting is getting worse. You see most of the Asshats was sold a dream. A dream that you can move to the Ghetto and Magically things change overnight. Oh the criminals will stop because we have a Latte shop and Wine Bar over here.
Remove head out of butt and look around and see things for what there are not as you want them to be....
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at November 18, 2008 10:12 AM
ROTW uses the same language as the unscrupulous "block-buster" real-estate agents who operated so effectively in NYC during the "white flight" days of the 60's. They peddled fear, and bought homes on the cheap from those who fled. He fails to understand that this is a different era. He may be trying to do the same thing, as there are runmours that he is a real estate agent. Pay no attention to him.
Nokilissa: I wouldn't pin your hopes on Obama to do something about crime (full disclosure: I didn't vote for him). As DIBS pointed out, crime is a local issue, and must be solved at that level. I think that Bloomberg understands that NYC will unravel again if crime gets out of control. If he doesn't, then I echo the call for the return of Giuliani.
Finally, I also agree with you that any crime is a tragedy. We all started out as bright-eyed babes, as a mother's son or daughter, and it is sad to see any human potential fall by the wayside.
Posted by: benson at November 18, 2008 10:25 AM
"Bring back Giuliani. Bloomberg might be a better businessman but Giuliani is the only one with the cajones to address this sort of thing which is necessary on an ongoing basis."
Guiliani is better at what? Crime has decreased further since he left office. Including this year (despite the above mentioned crime)
I fail to see the need for the comparison.
Posted by: 11217 at November 18, 2008 10:31 AM
As usual you find a way to phrase your thoughts that is condescending, hilarious and really gross all at once, What.
And the day I stop imagining things as I would like them to be is the day I stop breathing. And it hasn't a damn thing to do with latte shops and wine bars.
1842, you are right of course. But as someone who, apparently too long ago, worked in a residential treatment homes, CPS, a children's psychiatric hospital... it is an unfamiliar and unwelcome set of feelings. And I find it getting harder and more entrenched every year. Crime can't be getting that much worse, but I'm getting more hardened to it. And much less forgiving.
Posted by: Nokilissa at November 18, 2008 10:35 AM
"ROTW uses the same language as the unscrupulous "block-buster" real-estate agents who operated so effectively in NYC during the "white flight" days of the 60's. They peddled fear, and bought homes on the cheap from those who fled. He fails to understand that this is a different era. He may be trying to do the same thing, as there are runmours that he is a real estate agent. Pay no attention to him."
Thank you, benson. You put into words something I have been thinking for some time.
Posted by: 11233 at November 18, 2008 10:36 AM
"ROTW uses the same language as the unscrupulous "block-buster" real-estate agents who operated so effectively in NYC during the "white flight" days of the 60's. They peddled fear, and bought homes on the cheap from those who fled."
No I using the language of reality. Did you know there have been robberies going on Fulton St, in fact right down the street from Brownstoner's house? You see the issue of crime in NY never went away, just your perception of it.
I so sorry if you was mislead into beLIEving that certain parts of the Ghetto was safe. I know Brownstoner, NY Times, Corcoran, Big Condo Developers, Ratner and so on. Most of you are holding a bag of streaming turds...
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: Return of The What at November 18, 2008 10:39 AM
Yeah benson, and you can buy a 3,000 sq foot house for $200K in TX and much of the rest of the county. We all know that EVERYTHING costs more here including social services, education, etc.
Posted by: BH76 at November 18, 2008 10:50 AM
Hey What. Did you really move to Marcy Ave? I see there's a story posted above about you.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 18, 2008 11:06 AM
Hey What:
What's a "streaming turd?" Did you mean "steaming turd?" Also, would it be too much to ask for you to work a bit harder on your verb agreements? "I so sorry if you was misled" demonstrates either that you received an incomplete education or a conscious choice to sound that way.
Posted by: roberto at November 18, 2008 11:11 AM
roberto...i think its some internet term having to do with a video. LOL
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 18, 2008 11:26 AM
Roberto: Please contact PS 56. That streaming turd called what/ROTW failed to attend all of his classes and, as a result, is an idiot.
I guess the turd just proves that anyone can make a living in real estate.
Posted by: 11233 at November 18, 2008 11:31 AM
Hey Roberto they need to wash the dishes and make deliveries.
I watching the BS with ERNANKE AND PAULSON TESTIFY ON THE TARP!
Roberto you are trying to sound intelligent but the real crime is going down here.
Paulson Clashes With Democrats on Using Bailout for Homeowners
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aTDtdoBgG_t8&refer=home
Paulson, who has pledged $250 billion of TARP for buying stakes in banks, said capital injections and a “modest” contribution to a Fed program for consumer finance are the best ways to use the bailout money. Paulson has also used $40 billion to help American International Group Inc.
“We have seen that capital purchases are clearly powerful in terms of impact per dollar of investment, which is a major advantage under the current circumstances,” Paulson said today in his prepared remarks.
Yep Asshats make fun at The What! Keep it up and keep F&^^&*** around!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at November 18, 2008 11:44 AM
agree with 1842 and nokilissa. it's especially heartbreaking when you see these rudderless young kids -6, 7, 10 years old - with parents who clearly are just not up to the task of raising responsible members of society. they may not be lost causes, but it's hard to see what set of good luck and opportunity could make up for that kind of neglect for so many years.
Posted by: i disagree at November 18, 2008 11:47 AM
Hi 11233,
I'm not really so concerned about ROTW to complain to the Public School he attended on his behalf. However, it's clear that he has a good case for malpractice against PS 56. I'd recommend he pursue it, except for the catch-22 implied by his inability to communicate clearly in English.
I've now come to the conclusion that his near bull's-eye on the market collapse was nothing more than the rare occurrence of the statistically possible but nearly inconceivable monkey at the typewriter producing a Shakespeare sonnet.
Posted by: roberto at November 18, 2008 11:51 AM
Post the whole story ASSHAT. Paulson's saying that the money ought not to be used to bail out the autos and for mortgages. He's saying there are other ways of doing that, which there are. Congress neeeds to get off their ass and stop the damn finger pointing and pass something that deals with mortgages and do a tax cut.
There should be a six-month holiday of paying your FICA. it's the easiest thing to pass.
Here's the rest...
"The Troubled Asset Relief Program was designed to
stabilize financial markets and the flow of credit and “is not a panacea for all our economic difficulties.”
Representative Spencer Bachus defended Paulson against
criticism. “I for one, Secretary Paulson, applaud you for being flexible and taking an approach that was clearly authorized by the legislation.”
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 18, 2008 11:52 AM
This time, the punks who tried to rob the storeowner got what they deserved. That said, when you pick up a gun - on either side - chances are good someone will get hurt.
Why all the analysis? Criminals have always tried to take the easy way out by robbing others. The police can't be everywhere at all times. Stuff is going to happen. How you opt to protect and defend yourself is a very personal matter. But it pays to remember we live in an often dangerous world.
Posted by: East New York at November 18, 2008 12:20 PM
Nice HDR photo. That picture was taken ON Lafayette Ave looking toward St James Place and the corner of Pratt Institute's North Architecture Building.
Posted by: sxm at November 18, 2008 2:12 PM
first of all we make jail to cushy for criminals. I believe why spend money on amenities that they don't need or deserve.
we have to be honest why does someone locked up have better options than someone homeless...my dad who is from Ghana Africa used to tell me that where he came from coming out of jail was the lowest rep to have and that jails were substandard you had to grow your own food and if you had poor harvest you starved,now that may seem extreme but why should someone in jail be treated like human beings....when you are committing crimes against innocent people everything should be stripped no matter what!
Posted by: mysideofstuy at November 18, 2008 2:24 PM
wow, benson - what an excellent post.
My only hope is that when Obama socializes the country, many of these city programs will be switched to the federal level so everyone in the country pays.
This is the only possible solution, as declines in social services will quickly bring back the dark days.
Posted by: Polemicist at November 18, 2008 3:19 PM
"The Troubled Asset Relief Program was designed to
stabilize financial markets and the flow of credit and" has thus far failed at both.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at November 18, 2008 3:23 PM
Polemecist;
Thanks. You really want these programs kicked upstairs to the federal level,where they will be further removed from accountability????
Today's WSJ editorial page points out that despite Mayor Bloomberg's call for austerity, he is ducking the hard choices. Specifically, they point out that the city's payroll has grown from 270,000 to 310,000 during the past YEAR.
Posted by: benson at November 18, 2008 3:47 PM
Let me be clear, I don't want these programs at all. Public housing in particular has to be ended.
At the same time however, I realize that the purpose of these programs was never to help the poor, but to create a permanent voting block to keep democrats in power.
Obama will likely succeed in accomplishing the same goal nationally, so at least the burden will be shifted somewhat. Of course, this will eventually lead to political collapse in time - but it will be longer for us than if the city went bankrupt.
The best we can hope for is that the coming chaos will not be isolated to big cities. That would of course be disastrous for us. When the parasitic class realizes the politicians cannot deliver on their promises, most will hopefully be amenable to a new economic order rather than resound themselves to living in shantytowns like in other failed socialist nations. This the best case scenario.
I sympathize with Bloomberg, but with 50% of the city population dependent upon the public dime, he is beholden to the "voters".
I imagine however civil war will erupt in the next 5-10 years. What happens then, no one can say.
Posted by: Polemicist at November 18, 2008 5:14 PM
So you end public housing. Then who is providing low cost housing? Do we revert to shantytowns?
Posted by: LC Arnett at November 18, 2008 7:20 PM

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