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November 24, 2008

Closing Bell: There IS Someplace Like Home

Behold a snippet of the video chronicling the fight against gentrification in downtown Brooklyn, Some Place Like Home. Families United for Racial & Economic Equality, a Brooklyn-based group made up mostly of women of color, is behind the movie, which "tells the stories of community residents and small businesses that are displaced to make way for high-end retail and luxury condominiums to the area," and chronicles the impace of the Downtown Brooklyn plan.

It depicts the pulling out of Downtown Brooklyn and Fort Greene's legacy of being a once-forgotten neighborhood built from the ground up by generations of low-income and working families from all walks of life. Small business owners that have helped to make the area the 3rd largest retail district in New York City talk about the deferment of their dreams as entrepreneurs. It reveals practices and policies used to support massive real estate projects as the historical, economic and cultural fabric of the area is torn apart. It follows the battle of community residents and small businesses as they fight for some place like home.

The film will premier on December 5th at Medgar Evers College. More info here.

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meh

Posted by: ReMiXxd at November 24, 2008 4:18 PM

I love how these people dont want change to the neighborhood at all. I bet all these people were against Metro tech as well... When that was the best thing for the area ever....

These people put no money into the area, vandalize the area, keep the area dirty, but dont want change they want to live in a mess. Now developers are building new buildings, getting a new type of person to the area and everyone is bitter becasuse: a)they cant afford it and b) its not affordable housing or something for free...

When the people moving to the area in these new developments are hardworking and will put money into the community. I understand some developments may be ugly and could be built better but what do u want SOHO to be like it was in the 70's and east village to stay the way it used to be. Times change get used to it or get out.....

Posted by: THAL at November 24, 2008 4:20 PM

THAL, you had me sold on your argument until your last sentence. "get used to it or get out." that sentiment just reeks.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 24, 2008 4:23 PM

I dont get it...serously. All of these people are so upset that new construction and business are transforming the neighborhood? Isnt this what progress and growth are all about.

Seriously, what would Fort Greene and Downtown be like if the farmers and dutch settlers took this view? Wouldnt the whole country be stagnant and stuck in an agrarian economy to this day without development and progress? I know this is an extreme example, but that is the nature of change - some winners, some losers, and overall progress. Progress requires people adapt and change, it is the nature of all things. The racial element does not make this point any less valid.

Posted by: newsouthsloper at November 24, 2008 4:26 PM

Notice how all the buldings at Metrotech turn their butts on Brooklyn.

Posted by: Bessie at November 24, 2008 4:26 PM

I was just in Downtown today. I don't think that Barron and his ladies have to worry. I didn't seee much in the way of gentrification. Not at street level anyway. Let me tell you. It may as well be 1979 in the ol' hood.

Posted by: sam at November 24, 2008 4:30 PM

Metrotech is hideous -- full of suburban office workers who flee Brooklyn at 5 on the dot, leaving an empty wasteland behind. In the meantime, it has done nothing for surrounding business, which remain a mix of nail salons, cell phone stores, etc. The Marriott (not part of Metrotech) has helped some, inlcuding the recent opening of Mortons (although why Brooklyn needs a spinoff of a Chicago restaurant is beyond me), but Metrotech is an abomination, chiefly rented out to NYS and NYC government offices at above-market rents (your tax dollars at work) to make up for the below-market rents offered to corporate tenants. Another scheme of Bruce Ratner, lining his pockets at our expense.

Posted by: babs at November 24, 2008 4:58 PM

"These people put no money into the area, vandalize the area, keep the area dirty, but dont want change they want to live in a mess. Now developers are building new buildings, getting a new type of person to the area and everyone is bitter becasuse: a)they cant afford it and b) its not affordable housing or something for free..."

Ummmm, THAL - "these people"??? Not once but three times?

First of all, "these people" put plenty of money into the area. 98% of the stores downtown are doing well because "these people" spend their money there. If they didn't, the area would really be a ghost town. That ain't welfare money, either, most of "these people" work, and work hard. ABC store on Fulton Street is not ABC Carpet and Home on Broadway, but it serves the needs of its customers. You don't have to like it for it to succeed quite well without your patronage.

I don't agree with all of the positions taken by the group. Change is inevitable, and I think the best position to take is to work with the changers to make sure your concerns, commercial and housing needs are addressed. It's not enough to picket outside the meeting room. There needs to be representation at the meeting, and not just one person, either. If that is not possible, then start working on making it so, and in the meantime, then start picketing.

I think the worst mistake is for the powers that be to ignore these concerns. A successful project in a major economic and social hub is a mixture, reaching as many as possible, not the favored few. Metrotech is a prime example of that premise not being considered. It is a cut-off fortress that is there in spite of the larger community, not for it, or with it.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 24, 2008 5:26 PM

You know something? Brownstoner hides behind a keyboard and does not interact with his community. He hides in his house all day and comes out gets into a car/cab and goes to Park Slope or Williamsburg. If Brownstoner was sensitive to the people in his community, he would not post inflammatory garbage like this. The people who live in this community want to be here when things get better and not priced out the neighborhood.

This post showed me o'lot about you Brownstoner. Post Charles Barron and presto hits on my Blog. I have some bad news: The fuel for the Mutant Asset Bubble is gone. This is the only way for this thing to stop.

To the covert Racist posters. You live among the people you hate. There is such a price for that and Karma will root you out. Someday you will have to "Deal" and I hope you have some room in your "Hate Tank" because you will need it.

Now you can start talking about Mourning Teens and Homeless Black women dumping on "your" stoop.

Note: MM I like to see your "response" to this post. These are the same people you partied with laughing at me. You must understand they are your enemy and want to see you gone...

The What (No Keyboard)

Someday this war is gonna end,,,

Posted by: Return of The What at November 24, 2008 5:51 PM

If by those people, you mean the 80-year old grandmothers who are being kicked out of their rent-controlled apartments, then by all means, continue to pontificate. I'm sure your grandmother is just fine.

Posted by: Heather at November 24, 2008 5:55 PM

Hey The What...

Now that a black man is our president, you'll have fewer reasons to blame whitey for everything. Talk about perpetuating a stereotype.

Yawn.

Posted by: Prodigal_Son at November 24, 2008 5:57 PM

Huh? Agree completely with Montrose Morris. And The What, we weren't "partying" and "laughing" at you. Don't be so paranoid. We were simply meeting each other.

Posted by: mopar at November 24, 2008 6:10 PM

Mopar,

The What is immeasurably insecure and pathologically disturbed.

Too bad; I agree with a great deal of his opinions on the state of the economy and RE.

Posted by: Prodigal_Son at November 24, 2008 6:15 PM

I feel for elderly residents kicked out of apartments but I don't feel for these whiney "entrepreneurial" businesses. They don't exhibit any kind of entrepreneurial spirit in complaining about new arrivals to the neighborhood, that's absurd. A true entrepreneur would be glad about more disposable income in the neighborhood. Successful people use their money to make more money and constantly reinvest in their own businesses. These old Brooklyn businesses need to do a little renovating. Be more clean. Get a new awning. Ask customers what kinds of products they'd like to see in the store. Walk into other stores that are doing well, make note of their product lines and order some of those too. It's basic good business sense.

Posted by: traditionalmod at November 24, 2008 6:31 PM

MM, great post - you're all aces - MM for Mayor! THAL get the asshat gold ribbon prize for the day.

Listen PS, after recent/ongoing events here, I think What has a right to a certain amount of discomfort and sensitivity.

"The people who live in this community want to be here when things get better and not priced out the neighborhood."

On this very topic: Vinca had an excellent post in the Forum today for the local teacher/ renter losing his/her apt after 17 years in CG. I'm pretty sure you could substitute BedStuy, Cobble Hill, or Fort Greene, pick a neighborhood. [Again, Thank you Vinca]

"Do you even understand that the people who have lived here the longest are the ones that made Brooklyn what it is, the neighborhoods so "prime" and so attractive to you? That we far preferred our butchers, bakers and stoop-sitting neighbors to the endless rows of restaurants and realtors lining our avenues? That we loved living here during the days when you probably still described Brooklyn as godforsaken and dangerous and when you wouldn't have been caught dead crossing a bridge to visit your friends? Do you understand that the majority of oldtimers do NOT charge market value? That market value has been entirely skewed by the new generation of owners who gleefully indulged the twisted run-up, and who both believe it's their "right" as well as have the NEED to squeeze every dollar out of their rentals to barely cover costs? Yes, there's certainly "more to life than Carroll Gardens," but I suspect for you that's just a throwaway line.

Posted by: vinca at November 24, 2008 9:59 AM"

Posted by: cobblehiller at November 24, 2008 6:38 PM

Mister Crabs would not let change sink him. He'd still make a buck.

Posted by: dittoburg at November 24, 2008 6:54 PM

And the award for the World's Shortest Self-Imposed Exile in History (That We Knew Wouldn't Last a Day Anyway) goes to....

"I going to take a break from posting here. Brownstoner has jumped the shark and when you take down my post on the economy I think it's time to go. I have other things to worry about and I not going to waste my energy and time posting here. America is full of Asshats and they will be shocked how fast this thing implodes! 306 Billion to Citibank just disgusting!
The What (I'm done)
Someday this bullshit is gonna end..."

"And The What, we weren't "partying" and "laughing" at you. Don't be so paranoid. We were simply meeting each other."
mopar, it's impossible for The What to believe it's not all about him. He's completely delusional.

Posted by: Biff Champion at November 24, 2008 6:57 PM

Message for Vinca and for Cobblehiller-

You are missing a HUGE part of the story. Lets look at Carroll Gardens. You mention the realtors and the greed. Do you realize that the MAJORITY of realtors in the area are all owned and run by old school, been here for generation LOCALS? There are only a handful of newcomers as far as real estate offices go. And they ALL overcharge and they ALL are greedy and they ALL are part of the problem and they ALL carry the guilt.

A question for Vinca: in the 60s- 80s when NYC, and Brooklyn and Carroll Gardens were truly in the toilet, where did the Italian 2nd and 3rd generations go? They moved to Bay Ridge, they moved to Jersey, they moved to Florida. The point is, the majority of them MOVED. Sure there are old timers in CG. Sure there are SOME families who have hung on but the MAJORITY of the landlords in CG and this stretch of Brooklyn are the very greedy overcharging opportunistic people you refer to. Whos selling the majority of 2.5 million dollar brownstones? Italian old timers working with Italian old timer realtors. They sell to whoever can afford the price. Vinca, you refer to a new generation of owners who SQUEEZE to barely cover costs. Lets see...do the math. A newcomer yuppie has got an 8-10K a month mortgage on a house he just bought for millions from an Italian realtor who has been in the hood for 30 years. What kind of rent do you charge? 900 a month? Is that fair? NO. That won't cut it. Get real.

And by the way, if the old timers do NOT charge market value, please cite some examples. Because it won't be ANY of the old timer realtors who do business in Carroll Gardens.

The only thing I can agree with you is that "That we far preferred our butchers, bakers and stoop-sitting neighbors " I prefer them too and am sad that my yuppie brethren have such bad taste. But the stoop sitting neighbors are usually the people that scowl at me for not being Italian and for not being born in this neighborhood.

So screw them.

Posted by: Prodigal_Son at November 24, 2008 8:00 PM

Is it me or is downtown Brooklyn looking more and more like Palm Beach?

Posted by: sam at November 24, 2008 8:48 PM

No, Sam.

Downtown Brooklyn is looking more like suburban California.

Posted by: Prodigal_Son at November 24, 2008 8:52 PM

suburban california?
ha!
you're nuttier than a fruit cake!
It's downtown Newark without the parking.

Posted by: sam at November 24, 2008 9:00 PM

Sorry, Sam...I was still stuck on my Carroll Gardens diatribe.

-Downtown- Brooklyn? Yeah, Newark works for me.

Posted by: Prodigal_Son at November 24, 2008 9:14 PM

"the MAJORITY of the landlords in CG and this stretch of Brooklyn are the very greedy overcharging opportunistic people you refer to. Whos selling the majority of 2.5 million dollar brownstones? Italian old timers working with Italian old timer realtors."

Mmmm. Just maybe your attitude is the reason the "the stoop sitting neighbors" scowl at you.

Or maybe you're one of the entitled precious ones who got too many trophies for just showing up.

"They sell to whoever can afford the price." Well yeah, that's business. It covers just about anything that's for sale. Greed has nothing to do with it. It's the market that sets the price.

And just so you know, Carroll Gardens was just about the only brownstone neighborhood that didn't deteriorate after WW II. And that's because all the Italians (you know, the ones you denigrate) didn't run to the the suburbs. You didn't discover CG; the natives have always known about it. Maybe if you built relationships instead of grievances you might be happier here.

I bought in CG in the '80's and no, Carroll Gardens wasn't a dump then. Nor was it unsafe. Smith Street was not developed for retail but Court St was vibrant - more so than today - and the residential streets were always nice.

There seems to be a lot of misinformed ranting around here lately and it's getting tedious.

Posted by: jfss at November 24, 2008 10:30 PM

What, I wasn't hatched out of the cotton patch last night. I can tell the difference between genuinely nice people, and liberal wannabe poseurs. There were none of the latter that I met at Union Hall. For what it's worth, you may have been the initial topic of conversation for some people, but after we all got to talking to one another, our lives, jobs, families, and interests took presidence. I had many more conversations about architecture and home renovation than I did about your identity, or Brownstoner.com, for that matter. If you had showed up, you might have actually enjoyed yourself. I had a great time, and don't consider myself anyone's tool, or anyone's fool.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 25, 2008 2:37 AM

jfss-

If you read my post as well as my response to Vinca, you'll see that you and I are in agreement for the most part. Also, I think you've misread a bit.

First off, I came to the area in 1983 after my Dad bought an building in Boerum Hill. I live here, taking care of him as he's become disabled. So I know the area for over 25 years. I do remember Carroll Gardens and although hardly the ghetto Boerum Hill was it was not that nice. And Smith Street WAS dangerous and to say it wasnt unsafe is just plain wrong. I'm not one of the precious entitled ones. I've been here just like you. I've been mugged, our building has been broken into and I've dealt with my fair share of crap, even in olden days Carroll Gardens you refer to.

One place we actually agree is that I too believe that its just business and that its the market that sets the price. That is the whole point that I was trying to get to Vinca in the first place. Read her post then read mine.

As far as the Italians I denigrate, I don't. I have shopped and supported all of the local vendors from day one that I arrived and do to this day. But it took a good 5-10 years for me to get on a 1st name basis in the shops and to this day, non Italians are scowled at.

I will disagree. Ask any old timer where the families are and they themselves will agree that most moved their families to the suburbs because the city was a rotten place to raise kids. Sure a few stayed but the middle generation, know in the 40s with kids live elsewhere. If they stayed you'd see the local schools filled up with more Italian kids. Now its a split down the middle, yuppies and project kids.

" You didn't discover CG; the natives have always known about it."

I never claimed I did. This is my 25th year in Brooklyn and my 46th year in NYC.

" Maybe if you built relationships instead of grievances you might be happier here."

I've built many but I know that SOME people that have no interest in building a relationship with my kind.

" There seems to be a lot of misinformed ranting around here lately and it's getting tedious."

I was thinking the same of you.

Posted by: Prodigal_Son at November 25, 2008 9:38 AM

PS - Note: It was my post quoting Vinca from the Forum, not Vinca responding to you.

Posted by: cobblehiller at November 25, 2008 10:16 AM

It is a very interesting fact that Fulton Mall is the 3rd highest ranking retail area in the city based on average of rental price and sales volume -ranking behind 5th ave and madison ave. The argument is that LOCAL businesses such as the ones on Willoughby that were forced out for new developement were doing well and serving a customer base.

Posted by: noodlescaboodles at November 25, 2008 10:18 AM

QOTD:
Now its a split down the middle, yuppies and project kids.

(or was it yesterday?) but that is the epitome of New New York. BARF

*Rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 25, 2008 10:20 AM

Posted by: noodlescaboodles at November 25, 2008 10:25 AM

seems like these people are in the same position as AIG, GM, Citigroup...no they aren't in suits with white shirts and expensive ties

Posted by: X at November 25, 2008 10:28 AM

seems like these people are in the same position as AIG, GM, Citigroup...no they aren't in suits with white shirts and expensive ties

Posted by: X at November 25, 2008 10:28 AM

To the OP:

Re: SOHO.

I didn't move to NYC until the early 1980s. I can tell you I prefer SOHO then to what it has become now. SOHO SUCKS ASS now. Some of my art professors were living there and working as artists in their lofts when I cam to NYC. In time, they all moved on, many out of the city because the neighborhood that THEY made desirable was turned into a fashion tourist shopping mall zoo. Even the art gallerists had to move on due to real estate values.

In the 70s the artists reclaimed the old rag warehouses and gave the place it's significance to NY and world culture.

Posted by: Oxygen at November 25, 2008 2:24 PM

I'm with you on the Oxygen. i worked in Soho from the 80's to the 90's. the day french Connection opened its first sotre, that was the day Soho began to change. It had been a vibrant, exciting, funky neighborhood with really fascinating people and shops. Artists everywhere- it was fantastic. Now- meh.

I realize it goes against the general "progress is wonderful, all hale progress" mantra,but although downtown Brooklyn wasn't pretty, financially it was very successful. I think there are points to be made for Furee's argument against gentrification. We've made a habit out of thinking progress and growth can only be measured in Wall st. terms. well, that hasn't worked well. We catered to Wall st., too much. so solid business areas like downtown Brooklyn did have enough curb appeal. And we tend to forget there were a lot of business people, homeowners and renters who invested time and money over many years.

This is not to say i think all gentrification is bad- I certainly don't. But I'd like to see development better thought out, and less destructive of the communities that live in its path.

Posted by: bxgrl at November 26, 2008 1:27 AM

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November 24, 2008

Closing Bell: There IS Someplace Like Home

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