« Downtown Brooklyn Now Has a Morton's To Call Its Own Here's What 40 Stories in Greenpoint Looks Like »

November 21, 2008

Stoop Drinking Still Illegal

Hey, this is a familiar story. Guy drinks beer on stoop. Guy gets ticket. And this guy goes to court. The Daily News reports that Prospect Heights resident Kimber VanRy will be in Brooklyn Criminal Court next month to contest the $25 ticket for sipping a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale on the un-gated stoop of his Sterling Street condo. "VanRy said that as one of the cops played a video game on a cell phone, the other wrote him a $25 summons for drinking on the stoop — and allegedly told him not to worry because the ticket would likely be dismissed." He pleaded not guilty to the ticket and got it reduced to $15, but it ain't about the money. Drinking in public is illegal, as we know, but most folks don't think a stoop fits the city's definition of "public" as a place where "public or a substantial group of persons has access, including, but not limited to 'a sidewalk or a street.'" Is this an issue the council should take up?
Prospect Heights Man Cited For Drinking Beer on Stoop [NY Daily News]
Photo by yadroff.

Trackback Pings

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.brownstoner.com/mte/mt-tb.cgi/7307

Comments

It's more important than whether we get the real estate tax rebate.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 21, 2008 9:49 AM

When I think about the technicalities, what is the difference between someone drinking on their stoop as opposed to a diner drinking outside at a sidewalk cafe?

Posted by: Schultz at November 21, 2008 9:51 AM

lol. i dont know. me and my roommate and one of my friends drink beers on the wall a lot on the corner of 5th and 1st at the bank and no one ever says anything. tho i guess maybe we're just lucky police havent driven by? i drink in a bag. my roommate is a little bit on the brazen side and doesnt even bother.

*Rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 21, 2008 9:53 AM

As a native nyc-er, I hate to say it but sometimes things are ridiculous.

It shouldn't be an issue to drink a beer on your stoop, gated or not.

I think we all know the police could be spending their time on more important problems.

Posted by: bkheightscoop at November 21, 2008 9:56 AM

the police have been INCESSANTLY ticketing street vendors in soho the last couple of weeks, it's ridiculous. big deal if some kid is trying to sell some paintings or sunglasses, it's not hurting anyway, there's still a lot of room on the street, they really arent in the way of the licensed vendors. and it's like 4-5 cops just standing there as one writes the ticket or whatever they are doing. there's gotta be better things they can be doing. im not a cop hater at all, but sometimes priorities are just so f_cked it's insane.

*Rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 21, 2008 10:00 AM

ETA: what about stoop sales? why arent those illegal then? if you can be a vendor on one street, why can you sell your warez on another claiming it's a stoop sale? is it because the stoop is private and a street is not? but most stoop sales extend to the street. why do people in soho get ticketed for selling their stuff but people having stoop sales do not? things that make you go hmmmm

*Rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 21, 2008 10:01 AM

i'm definitely pulling for the guy. still, i'd prefer that the test case on this issue involve a single-family home, where there's a stronger argument that the stoop is not "public property." a win on that issue would provide a more solid precedent for cases involving multi-family properties. but alas, you can't always have everything you want, especially in litigation.

schultz, the technical difference is that a sidewalk cafe that serves booze has (or should have) a commercial liquor license. but i agree that there isn't much of a practical difference in terms of the menace of outdoor drinking (or lack thereof).

Posted by: z at November 21, 2008 10:02 AM

"what is the difference between someone drinking on their stoop as opposed to a diner drinking outside at a sidewalk cafe?"

I'm very much in support of the stoop drinker and am just as guilty as he is, though wine is my drink of choice. HOWEVER, the difference with restaurants is that restaurants pay HUGE fees to do outdoor dining. Its in the 10s of thousands depending on the space.

Posted by: Prodigal_Son at November 21, 2008 10:05 AM

people drink in public ALL the time, you just have to be sly about it if you dont want ticket. put your juize in vitamin water bottles. you can paper bag it of course but that's a red flag. put that paper bag in a plastic bag or just carry a thin newspaper in front of it. i think the only people really getting ticketed are the foo-foo look at me on my stoop with my imported expensive beer arent i so sophisticated and too cool types anyway. you don't see people drinking 40's ever getting ticketed.

*Rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 21, 2008 10:07 AM

It's about lost revenues due to the collapse of the Mutant Asset Bubble!

Most of the Asshats was not in New York during the good ole day of the 70's and 80's.

Guess why you have to sweep 18 inches into the street? Because that was a nifty trick by Mayor Beame (Boy I'm old) when NY was going thru hard times.

May Bloomberg will see that deficit get plug up. Go in your house and drink that beer.

The What

Someday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at November 21, 2008 10:09 AM

"i think the only people really getting ticketed are the foo-foo look at me on my stoop with my imported expensive beer arent i so sophisticated and too cool types anyway. you don't see people drinking 40's ever getting ticketed."

Then maybe its brand profiling?

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 21, 2008 10:10 AM

if you are going to ticket me for drinking we need to change the laws and ticket people for smoking too. smoking in public places should be outlawed just like drinking in public has been.

Posted by: Diego Maradona at November 21, 2008 10:23 AM

I think it depends more on neighborhood/precinct than branding.
As to smoking, go live in one of those gated communities in the south where it's illegal even in your own front yard. (You probably voted for McCain too & don't really belong in Brooklyn or north of the Mason Dixon line.)

Posted by: Arkady at November 21, 2008 10:29 AM

DIBS:

In most of Brownstone Brooklyn, the police officers would have to walk up to the stoop to observe what kind of beer someone was drinking. Could sitting on one's stoop, sipping a beer be the kind of thing that Jane Jacobs acolytes would say adds to the vibrancy of street life? It seems that the police officers are from the Rudy Giuliani, quality of life school. In other words, what the cop says goes, even though the police officer walked up on someone's stoop.

Let's deal with REAL crime.

Posted by: BrooklynIsHome at November 21, 2008 10:29 AM

^ oh hells to the no.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 21, 2008 10:30 AM

my hells to the no comment was for the proposterous proposal to ban public smoking. whatever. people are so omg like lets be all like europeans blah blah blah. well if you do, then you smoke in public! woo. and im all for not smoking inside public places, but out in the open air, please dont take that right away!

*Rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 21, 2008 10:34 AM

Arkady...I voted for Obama. Smoking should not be allowed within a 10 yard vicinty of any other human being.

I always love to hear smokers defend their "rights." Bring it on and I'll outline for you the 10 reasons why people smoke.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 21, 2008 10:37 AM

The police are out in force in Prospect Park when the Philharmonic or Metropolitan Opera performs during the summer, ticketing all the well-to-do cultural elite drinking their 2005 bordeaux during performances. Not. I like the analogy between stoop sales and unlicensed vendors. If a stoop is public property, then logically the sales are unlawful without a license. I think these issues raise a more important point about the Bloomberg administration, namely, that he oversees one of the most regressive tax policies in the U.S. With all the ridiculous ticketing, including for drinking on stoops and the draconian issuance of parking tickets, many of which are illegitimate (but who has the time to go through the hassle of challenging all of them), the penalties fall disproportionately on those New Yorkers less able to afford them, less able to afford parking in garages. In fact, the Mayor's cavalier attitude toward the property tax rebate is demonstrative of his utter ignorance that $400 actually means something to a lot of us (in contrast to the price of a lunch for His Honor).

Posted by: PPSer at November 21, 2008 10:37 AM

another thing. if you are on your stoop and you see a cop coming to give you a ticket. hello just run inside. they can't ring the bell and try to find you. jeez.

*puffing smoke rings in dave's face*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 21, 2008 10:48 AM

Lot of whining over $25. Letting parking meter expire probably costs more than that.

Posted by: Petebklyn at November 21, 2008 10:54 AM

Puff away rob with your MD 40 in your brown paper bag. As insensitive as it may sound, the more you puff the shorter will be your puffing life. There's nothing more stupid in the world than smoking.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 21, 2008 10:56 AM

If I got that ticket I'd frame it.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 21, 2008 10:57 AM

Can anyone tell me how the ticket is actually enforced? It's not like a moving violation or parking tickets where you'll be arrested the next time you're stopped or your car may wind up with the boot. Is there a bench warrrant issued if you just don't pay it??? Come on now people.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 21, 2008 10:59 AM

there are PLENTY of things more stupid in the world than smoking. and honestly i dont care about shaving those last 10-30 years off my life because those years blow anyway. and it's not like i have kids or a family so it doesnt exactly matter. i dont know why people who claim to be so liberal about stuff have to put down and mock others for their choices in life. i choose to smoke. i LIKE it. it's very very calming and relaxing for me. wish it wasnt as expensive tho :(

*Rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 21, 2008 11:07 AM

There's no way to respond to a comment like that.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 21, 2008 11:09 AM

what about those people who chop off fingers and other body parts just for the thrill? now THAT is slightly more stupid than smoking.

Posted by: z at November 21, 2008 11:15 AM

and dave i havnt seen mad dogs in nyc in like forever!!! i did like those in jersey tho. especially the banana red. yummies.

*Rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 21, 2008 11:16 AM

No one more fun to hang out with than a white trash gay!!! :)

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 21, 2008 11:21 AM

I don't know. Just living in New York, breathing this air, drinking this water, riding the subway, eating the dirty water dogs. That's got to take years off our lives as well. As long as they're not bothering you, let smokers be. Next you'll be limiting trans-fats or something... ;p

Posted by: spnder at November 21, 2008 11:24 AM

i cant walk naked in public, i cant piss in public, i cant drink in public, why the f*** can i smoke in public - it only enriches southern tobacco farmers and tobacco lobbyists.

Posted by: Diego Maradona at November 21, 2008 11:25 AM

"No one more fun to hang out with than a white trash gay!!! :)" QOTD!

*Rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 21, 2008 11:27 AM

Yeah, that's what we need, push the local government to create some kind of new initiative which would be not a priority for the PD, in the mist of major budget cuts and much bigger issues.

Brownstoner BK would not be the focus of a stoop drinking law anyhow.

Simpler to just not do something you know you're not supposed to do, and push the gov for bigger things.

Posted by: MFowl293 at November 21, 2008 11:28 AM

"There's nothing more stupid in the world than smoking"

I don't know, how about posting stupid comments about smoking in public?

Posted by: cmu at November 21, 2008 11:35 AM

I'm pretty sure this is one of those "mail fraud" type laws that they use to get you when what they're really concerned about is something else. Nation of Laws, and not of men, etc. etc.

Not at all sure why a cop would write a ticket, then tell you to contest it.

Posted by: bheilig at November 21, 2008 11:35 AM

Typical smokers comment cmu.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 21, 2008 11:40 AM

it should also be illegal to fart in public too. (actually it really should)

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 21, 2008 11:42 AM

I guess the cops have nothing to do ever since they caught the Times Square bomber...

oh, wait a sec.

Posted by: streber at November 21, 2008 11:52 AM

Attention all beer drinking derelicts on stoops in front of their buildings. Go to the bar or go inside.

Posted by: bmfesq at November 21, 2008 12:19 PM

no we won't, and you're not going to stop us.

*Rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 21, 2008 12:21 PM

"no we won't, and you're not going to stop us."

Rob, please don't "stoop" down to his level!

Posted by: Biff Champion at November 21, 2008 12:26 PM

Hey, Rob, as long as it's tobacco, it's cool with me.

Regarding drinking on stoops, I think you have to ask yourself: are you okay with other people drinking on your stoop?

I am guessing no.

Go drink on your roof, if it's that important. Or, put it in a coffee mug, genius.

Posted by: Heather at November 21, 2008 12:37 PM

well i dont have a stoop, so i cant really answer that question. tho honestly i dont think id mind (tho i can understand reasons why others might mind, like if they had a family inside or something). im just a big fan of drinking in parks, trains (yes, i know whaaaa? sorry but if it's a super long train ride to somewhere i like to enjoy it with a cocktail (usually in a gatorade bottle but whatever). you can drink on the metronorth trains! they even sell beers in bags right near the entrances. that's great. tho kinda scary considering a lot of those metronorth commuters then get out and drive but i guess they probably didnt drink a lot.l.) okay i totally just lost my train of thought.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 21, 2008 12:45 PM

"tho"? i ask this in all seriousness: are you in high school?

Posted by: z at November 21, 2008 1:35 PM

lol no. actually i turn 32 in a few months (the big Sweet Sixteen x 2!) it's the internet who follows grammar rules on the internet. jeez.

*Rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 21, 2008 1:38 PM

I have a stoop located behind a gate that fronts a courtyard measuring about 16' by 18'. Not only that, I get my CIGARETTES from a local storeowner for $5 a pack. I'm going to sit on my stoop tonight for a few minutes and puff on a Newport while drinking a Sol in honor of the posters here. Have a great weekend, everyone!

Posted by: East New York at November 21, 2008 2:11 PM

can i come and hang out on your stoop with you east new york? i used to get my newports for 5 bux in harlem too by asking for the ones behind the counter! then they went up to 6 for a little. now i buy gross marlboro menthols cuz you can still find deals on those.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 21, 2008 2:42 PM

"Regarding drinking on stoops, I think you have to ask yourself: are you okay with other people drinking on your stoop?"

No, I'm not OK with other people (whom I don't know, that is) BEING on my stoop either, what's your point?

Posted by: cmu at November 21, 2008 2:50 PM

You sound like an OK guy, Rob. We're both dog owners (I have a boxer. Nevertheless I have a strict policy against (knowingly) meeting Brownstoner posters. I prefer anonymous communication with the people here.

That said, we smokers will need to stick together as anti-smoking facists are desperately trying to stop us from enjoying our legal right (to smoke).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tobacco_movement_in_Nazi_Germany

Posted by: East New York at November 21, 2008 3:38 PM

This is why all laws should have grandfather clauses built-in.

But we live in a society where you can lose your freedom for growing a plant that has been safely used for therapeutic and recreational reasons since the dawn of civilization.

So until that changes, no one should be surprised about any of these insane laws.

And as y'all know, the city needs revenue where it can find it.

Disgusting.

Posted by: Come Clean at November 21, 2008 7:24 PM

Please, police officers, find other ways to raise revenue for the city. FREE COFFEE AND DONUTS to the team of cops who sit on my stoop and ticket honkers, litterers, people who don't scoop their dog's poop, and through trucks. And when your shift is over, I'll even give you a couple of brewskis -- in paper bags of course. That's a LOT more revenue, less trouble, and, of course, more coffee and donuts than you would ever get out of ticking a menacing stoop sipper.

THIS IS A PROMISE.

Posted by: Brooklyn Chicken at November 22, 2008 2:28 PM

1. I believe a bench warrant does indeed issue for open container. I know three years ago a bench warrant would issue for failure to address a "riding a bicycle on the sidewalk" ticket.

2. Besides honkers, litterers and non-scoopers, how about double parkers???

3. And, what about the remaining suspects in the salon shooting? Or the body in a box near FG park??

Posted by: davide5 at November 23, 2008 8:47 PM

« Downtown Brooklyn Now Has a Morton's To Call Its Own Here's What 40 Stories in Greenpoint Looks Like »

November 21, 2008

Stoop Drinking Still Illegal

Trackback Pings

Comments

Post a comment

Latest Restaurant Additions