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November 26, 2008
Looking Up at the Fulton Mall
Some readers noted that holding the announcement of the Shop Brooklyn initiative, intended to get folks to buy made-in-Brooklyn products, at the Fulton Mall was a little ironic. True, it's filled with many chain stores selling the same wares as retail outposts across the country. But head down to the Fulton Mall and look up. There you'll see plenty of architectural originality and only-in-Brooklyn buildings.
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Comments
future SOHO of Brooklyn as soon as we get rid of the cell phone and sneaker shops. Put those places on the other side of Fulton in Bed Stuy
Posted by: PropJoe at November 26, 2008 11:11 AM
there is nothing wrong with cell phone and sneaker shops. people have to get their kicks and digits somewhere, no?
*Rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 26, 2008 11:24 AM
there is something wrong with a cell phone & sneaker shop next to a cell phone and sneaker shop next to a KFC next to a Kennedy Fried Chicken next to a Pawn broker next to a cell phone and sneaker shop next to another Pawn Broker, no?
PropJoe
Posted by: PropJoe at November 26, 2008 11:28 AM
NO
Posted by: Amzi Hill at November 26, 2008 11:29 AM
some people like variety. and having lots of cell phone and sneaker shops keep the products affordable. tho i am fairly certain a lot of those rinky dink cell phone shops are scam-city. there's this one cell phone shop that doubles as a used video game store, and they buy gold!!! that's up in harlem tho
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 26, 2008 11:37 AM
Say it out loud: It's not elitist to think that the retail mix on Fulton Street is crap. Feel better?
If this were a truly successful strip, the upper floors of most of these building wouldn't be occupied by ceiling to ceiling advertisements, storage, or vacant space. You would have more productive uses above, like reliable office tenants, which granted do exist here.
How can the case be made you NEED two Modell's within 3 blocks of each other? Two Burger Kings? How many Jimmy Jazz? It may be profitable for these businesses (and congrats to them) but that does not mean this area is healthy and/or a lively place to hang out.
Posted by: YngPlnr at November 26, 2008 11:44 AM
Downtown has some great architecture, to be sure, most of which is covered up and unappreciated.
If it is to be the Soho of Brooklyn, that is, like Broadway, don't see how substituting lower end chains with higher end chains is that much of an improvement. Go to Soho, if that's what you want.
As has been said endless times, the stores there, however distasteful to certain upscale types, are paying their rents, making money, and catering to the people who shop there, and who have been shopping there for the last 25 years. If a cell phone store goes out of business, then lobby/pressure/invite/open yourself, something better.
Moving them to Bed Stuy is typical of Prop Joe's idiotic, racist attitudes. Great answer, Amzi!
Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 26, 2008 11:45 AM
How can a brotha be a racist, Montrose? I ain't be hating on whitey, yo. Amzi obviously is a project kid who loves baggy jeans and uses his or her welfare cheque to buy new kicks and eat at McDonalds every week instead of taking care of his baby mamma like a responsible person.
Posted by: PropJoe at November 26, 2008 11:50 AM
I've always advocated that the upper floors of these buildings should be rented out as offices and small business spaces. They would be perfect for medical offices, dentists, architects, and other small businesses that would thrive in a commercial hub.
But as a recent study done on the area showed, most landlords don't want to bother, as the retail spaces more than pay for leaving them empty. In many cases, the stairways upstairs have been boarded over or removed for more retail space, and they are loathe to change them.
I think this is just wrong, not to mention a potential fire hazard. Many of these buildings are landmarked, because they really are special and important pieces of architecture and urban history, but if you can't access the roof for repair, or the rest of the building for structural upkeep, one is just asking for serious trouble.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 26, 2008 11:51 AM
I hardly think so, Joe. I believe she is an architect, so there goes your silly theory. If you don't have anything responsible to add, just go away. I believe one of your fellow turkeys is calling.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 26, 2008 11:54 AM
Lovely, but hardly "only in Brooklyn." You can find the same buildings in almost any upstate small city/big town. Brownstoner, you really need to get out of town more often.
Posted by: shillstoner at November 26, 2008 12:17 PM
I think PropJoe is real old school Tom. I really like the projects I grew up in my next door neighbors were Mrs Walter P.Chrysler and Mrs Douglas MacArthur I hear Pharrell Williams just brought his family a house one street over but I don't have to prove anything to PropJoe... And no I did not grow up in Detroit. Montrose is right about me being an Architect only thing is she= he. I do think that Downtown Brooklyn will be this trendy area very soon but have a different vibe all to its own..
Posted by: Amzi Hill at November 26, 2008 12:54 PM
Brownstoner:
I hope that limestone beauty above is a landmark! (Although reading today's Times I wouldn't be surprised if it slipped through LPC's fingers!) This building, which my mother remembered as a department store when she was growing up in Park Slope during the 1930s, is as good as the old Bonwit Teller on Fifth Avenue -- maybe better!
During the 1950s and early 1960s, when I grew up in Brooklyn, Fulton Street had a spread of working-class to upper-middle class stores. The current Macy's was Abraham and Strauss (Brooklyn's equivalent of Macy's back in the day) and the site of the new H+M was "upscale" Martin's, Brooklyn's Altman's (another great Fifth Avenue store now only a memory).
Martin's had a Romanesque building, much smaller than Abraham and Strauss, befitting the exclusivity of its clientele. As I remember, its shopping bags showed a horse-drawn delivery wagon pulling up to a distinguished brownstone front, recalling the time when it catered to the "carriage trade."
Martin's was the store my parent's allowed me to go alone to make my first department-store purchase, probably because I couldn't come home with anything too crazy. Nevertheless, I bought a pair of suede loafers -- v. cool for a kid -- that had Dad burst out laughing when I unwrapped them, proudly, at our apartment.
Abraham and Strauss was best at the holidays, when its Art- Deco first floor turned a riotous red with Christmas balls and bunting and the elevator operators (do they still have those at the new Macy's?) wore sprigs of bright berries. Something about the decorations and all that marble, bronze, and brass put everybody in the holiday -- and shopping -- mood. (Another early purchase of mine: a garish pendant of fake diamonds, bought there for a girl's birthday; I cringe at the memory!)
A 'n S, as we kids called it, was one of Brooklyn's old-fashioned "benevolent" institutions that advertised the borough's virtues when it was "in decline," bleated proudly about Brooklyn Heights' landmarks designation -- the first historic district in the country, as I seem to remember it claiming in a two-page spread in The Times -- and stocked Prospect Park lake with fish for an annual rod-and-reel competition for children. (To A 'n S's credit, the kids lined up lakeside in the ads in The Times were a racially-integrated group at a moment when white panic and exodus were at their peak.)
The last time I was on Fulton Street was 30 years ago at the wedding-rehearsal dinner of a Park Slope relative at Gage and Tollner (gone, too, I understand). She was marrying the next day at the Montauk Club on Grand Army Plaza (still there, but much reduced, I'm told).
As late as the 1970s it was possible for old Brooklyn families to keep up traditions. Now the newbies in my old borough will have to invent their own, as I'm sure they will. The wonderful architecture along Fulton Street provides a durable framework for future retail and rituals. It just needs to be filled in (and not entirely at the expense of sneaker shops, I hope).
Nostalgic on Park Avenue
Posted by: NOP at November 26, 2008 1:06 PM
PS: I just noticed the old Martin's is the second photo from right at the bottom. Funny what you remember: the salesman in the shoe department treated me like a favored customer, even though my purchase, apparently, was hilarious. I wouldn't be surprised if my parents' had given them a call to warn them what was up. He was that pleasant to me. NOP
Posted by: NOP at November 26, 2008 1:22 PM
NOP;
Your post took me back to the day...
I too remember when a trip to Fulton St. was a day out for many a Brooklyn family. Women actually wore white gloves on Fulton Street in those days, and you considered yourself to have really made it if you shopped in Martin's. I also remember the fishing contest in Prospect Park. For those who don't know about it: the point of the competition was to reel in the catfish that had a brass ring attached to it. If you caught it,you would win a prize.
You forgot to mention one other prominent store in those days: Mays (not to be confused with the present-day May department store chain). Mays was a NYC chain that catered to the working class. Another was EJ Korvette's, which was also on Fulton St. (Another piece of trivia: the name "E.J.Korvette's" dervies from the founders, who were Eight Jewish Korean (War) Vets!
Posted by: benson at November 26, 2008 1:37 PM
Many upscale stores also sell the exact same chain store merchandise found across the country too.
It is a shame about the upper floors. After I read that, I walked along Fulton Mall trying to figure out how one would put the staircases back in... looks like a huge project. That being said, it does seem like a more productive enterprise than another luxury condo tower.
Also, please tell me that Macy's isn't closing. I've never bought anything there, although I'm considering their couches, but I grew up with Strawbridge's and Wanamaker's and I really love old department stores.
Posted by: Heather at November 26, 2008 1:52 PM
Benson:
I wonder how many very old catfish are still swimming around the lake, toting those brass rings. Did anyone ever catch one?
Judging from your post, you and I may have trolled the aisles of A&S's toy department at the same time. Small, world, Brooklyn.
I guess my family could be typecast by its shopping habits. I don't recall the stores you mention, although I've heard of Korvette's. It also had a Manhattan location (on Fifth Avenue!). And a Jewish friend once proudly told me the root of its name. But is that really true?
Fulton Street was a great street because it served everybody in Brooklyn. I don't know about you, but I shudder at the name "Fulton Mall."
NOP
Posted by: NOP at November 26, 2008 2:04 PM
Nostalgic, what a marvelous post. I love reading about retailers of bygone eras. I am still mourning the passing of I.Magnin, alas. (Check out "When Ladies Go A-Thieving" for a history of dept stores...) As for PropJoe, he's a troll, not a brother.
Posted by: mopar at November 26, 2008 2:17 PM
NOP'
Yes, the story of the origin of the name "E.J.Korvettes" is true! I even heard it once on a TV game show (so you know it had to be true ;-).
I am proud to say that I once caught the catfish with the brass ring!! Funny thing is, I was so excited to catch this fabled fish, that I remember that moment, but I don't remember the prize. Also, I remember that when you participated in the contest, you received a big button with a picture of a fish and a rod, to wear on your lapel.
My family was working-class, so we mainly stuck to Mays and EJ Korvette's. However, we also did shop at "A'n S". My father was always proud of A&S as a Brooklyn institution, and was heartbroken when they disappeared. I remember well the elevator operators and their circular control handle. My most vivid memory of those elevators, however was the ride. For some reason, the way those elevators started and stopped made me nauseous, and I wasn't alone on that. I also remember the "folding" doors that the operators opened and closed on each floor.
Those were the days when stores had class. I think it is hard for most folks today to remember and/or believe that going to a store was an event, for which you dressed up.
Posted by: benson at November 26, 2008 2:24 PM
Benson:
Congratulations on the catch!
I never got to go. Ocean fishing was more Dad's game, and a friend of the family with a sail boat would take us out of Sheepshead Bay.
Dad did take us rowing on the lake, though. And after he died, I came on a book about Frederick Law Olmsted in his library. In it he'd penned a poem to the great man, thanking him for the many happy hours he'd given him and his boys.
After Prospect Park, Central Park seems small potatoes!
NOP
Posted by: NOP at November 26, 2008 2:39 PM
NOP and Benson, when I first came to Brooklyn, in the late 1970's, many of those stores were still there, so I also have some fonder memories of downtown. My mother spent part of her childhood in Brooklyn, and when we came back, she also told stories of the grand old stores.
I loved A'n S! It used to be a treat to eat lunch in their 4th floor restaurant, behind what is now the children's dept. They had great food, and good service, and even in the 70's, was a nostalgic event, harkening back to the white glove days of shopping. I used to take my Mom there quite often, as I couldn't afford Gage and Tollner, and Junior's was a once in while treat. I remember their great Christmas decorations, and windows, and you are right, the elevators did make one nauseous!
In addition to Korvettes, remember McRory's? Used to be you could enter their basement from the A train. I think the boarded up windows are still there. Also good old Woolworth's, complete with lunch counter. I also remember May's. That was a great store, too.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 26, 2008 2:43 PM
and Martin's don't forget.
Posted by: Petebklyn at November 26, 2008 2:51 PM
Most of the owners of these stores lived a stop or two away on the A train in Bedford Stuyvesant and Crown Heights... Frank Woolworth 209 Jefferson. I believe the Abraham family lived on St. Marks near where the children museum is today...
Posted by: Amzi Hill at November 26, 2008 2:56 PM
MM;
Indeed I do remember McRory's. I am trying to remember which store was right next to A&S: Woolworth's or McRory's? I "think" it was Woolworth's, and I think McRory's was near Mays. The reason I bring this point up is that part of our Fulton Street "trip" was always a stop in this store next to A&S (again, I think it was Woolworth's). As soon as you entered, there was a bakery and confectionary section, and my father always bought us fresh-baked Fig Newtons as a treat. They were so delicious!!
Also, do you remember how stores like McRory's and Woolworth's always had the photo machine booth, where you could have a strip of photos taken and developed for something like a dime? One would always pile in there with friends or siblings and mug for the camera. It used to be a ritual of dating.
Posted by: benson at November 26, 2008 2:57 PM
Gee, Montrose, those of us of a certain generation do love our department stores!
And Benson, your father's unhappiness about the loss of A&S makes me think it was even worse for our parents' generation.
Having moved to Manhattan, my mother went into paroxysms of despair over the death of Altman's!
What is it about Brooklynites and shopping?
(Although Mopac's post about Magnin's indicates this is a larger American phenomenon.)
Did you know that kleptomania was first identified as a psychological problem during the 19th century? Apparently, the new department stores proved too tempting to middle-class ladies who'd hide goods under their long skirts!
I'm sure I have several such women in the family tree, given my mother's propensity for shopping!
NOP
Posted by: NOP at November 26, 2008 3:00 PM
Yes, Amzi, you're right about Crown Heights.
Although the A train didn't bring them to the neighborhood. That was built in the 1930's, well after the magnates had built their stores.
It was, however, what took my family to the pleasures of Fulton Street. To this day, I remember sitting on the old cane seats, lap piled high with Christmas boxes.
Happy holiday!
NOP
Posted by: NOP at November 26, 2008 3:06 PM
Benson, McRory's was down near May's, and Woolworth's near A&S. My favorite food moment was getting hot roasted cashews from the candy and nut counter. I grew up upstate where there was only one store for miles that had that feature, so even as a young adult in NY, that was still a treat.
I remember the photo booths, too. They were great. I guess with cell phone cameras, those are beyond obsolete, now.
Amzi, you are correct. The Woolworth house is on Jefferson between Nostrand and Marcy. It was on the BS house tour one year, and I was suprised at how unpretentious is was. The owner had done a masterful restoration, too.
The Strauss family lived on St. Mark's Ave, once the millionaire's row of Crown Heights. Their house, between NY and Brooklyn Aves, is long gone, but the carriage house remains, behind the Neo-Georgian semi-detached houses built around 1912. Mr. and Mrs. Strauss died aboard the Titanic, opting to stay together, when he was denied a lifeboat seat. There is a memorial to them on the Upper West Side around 100th Street and West End Ave. The Abraham's may have lived there as well, I'll have to look that one up.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 26, 2008 3:22 PM
Montrose:
Are the Brooklyn Strausses the same as the Manhattan Strausses?
The Strausses who went down with the Titanic owned part of Macy's, so there may have been a lot of Strausses to go around.
As our Brooklyn historian, can you identify the limestone number pictured above? With its delicate details, it must have been one fancy store, a women's emporium, I'd guess.
And do you remember the great New Yorker cover some years ago? It pictured all of New York's late lamented department stores, with angels doing their holiday shopping.
When our mother died, my sister actually said that's where she'd gone!
NOP
Posted by: NOP at November 26, 2008 3:29 PM
When I first moved to Brooklyn (around the same time at MM), my landlord's son, roughly a contemporary, asked me where I liked to hang out. "Mostly downtown," I said. "Near A&S?," he replied incredulously. The first of many important geography lessons for me, since I meant Manhattan south of 14th Street. An Italian-American, more of the choir-boy than tough-guy variety, he also chided me for smoking Winstons, declaring them to be "a Puerto Rican cigarette." The day before what is often a family holiday seems like a good time to indulge in some nostalgia.
More objectively, I believe there are only three landmarks on Fulton Street: Gage & Tollner, the interior of which is also listed; the former Offerman Building (503-13 Fulton Street aka 234-48 Duffield Street), which was the home to several department stores, including Martin's and now Conway's; and the former A.I. Namm & Sons Department Store (450-458 Fulton Street aka 1-7 Hoyt Street), which was Young World for a long time and now is the newer of the two Modell's. Namm & Son is the building in the first of the five pictures above. The Offerman Building is the fourth picture.
LPC's report on the Offerman Building is on-line at:
home2.nyc.gov/html/lpc/downloads/pdf/reports/offerman.pdf
The agency's report on Namm & Son is on-line at:
home2.nyc.gov/html/lpc/downloads/pdf/reports/nammstore.pdf
Posted by: altervoce at November 26, 2008 3:34 PM
Great info, altervoce.
NOP, I think those were the same Strausses. At least that's what I've always heard. It could be the Brooklyn branch, definitely the A&S Strausses, were not the ones who went down on the Titanic, but I'm pretty sure they were all in the dry goods/department store business, and had a hand in the success of Macy's, which is actually rather ironic.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 26, 2008 3:49 PM
Thanks, Altervoce.
I read the report. Now I do remember my mother speaking of "Namm's" -- and Loeser's, which would combine with it to make Namm-Loeser's, all closed by the 1950's, just as I started to visit Fulton Street.
Abraham and Straus (I've been misspelling it all along), bought the building and tore down most of the store for its parking garage -- early symptoms of Brooklyn's misguided attempts at post-War suburbanization -- but kept this beautiful bit for its offices.
Apparently there was a magnificent arched entrance to the building. Maybe it's still there under the drek.
Anyway, all this is beginning to sound terribly "Miracle on Thirty-Fourth Street" (or rather, Fulton Street). Time to prepare for tomorrow's guests: my family, for which this topic is sure to be discussed over the duck.
NOP
Posted by: NOP at November 26, 2008 3:56 PM
I just looked it up, NOP. Nathan and Isador Straus partnered with Abraham Abraham to form A&S. They also had a controlling interest in Macy's. The stores were kept separate, but had a joint buying office overseas. Nathan Strauss and family lived on St. Marks Ave. Isador and his wife, Ida, died on the Titanic.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 26, 2008 3:57 PM
Montrose:
So is it Straus or Strauss? Or did different branches of the family spell it differently? This is starting to drive me crazy! (But so useful in procrastinating about preparing for tomorrow!)
NOP
Posted by: NOP at November 26, 2008 4:00 PM
NOP and MM;
The Strausses of Brooklyn, and the Strausses of the Macy's variety were not the same clan, though they may have been related in some way. The Strausses of A&S fame lived on St.Mark's Ave, whereas Isidor Strauss and his crew lived in New York (these are the Strausses that went down with the Titanic). I always get a chuckle out of the name of the "A" of "A 'N S" partnership: Abraham Abraham. I guess his folks couldn't think up a new name.
Montrose: your story of the Strausses and the Titanic is not completely correct. She refused to go into the lifeboat without her husband. For the sake of his wife,Mr. Strauss was offered a seat on the lifeboat (with the women and children) but he refused to get on the boat before any other man. Instead, they opted to stay on the ship and go down together. Say what you will about the Victorians, they did understand that having wealth meant that you had larger responsibilities too. I can't imagine the CEO's of today doing what the Strausses did on the Titanic.
Posted by: benson at November 26, 2008 4:06 PM
Benson:
Please note: Bruce Ismay, President of the White Star Line, owner of the Titanic, jumped into a life boat before more than 1,500 of his crew and passengers.
His punishment: a light scolding by the British courts.
Plus ca change.
But again, is it Straus or Strauss?
NOP
Posted by: NOP at November 26, 2008 4:14 PM
Apparently the original spelling was Straus. It's a common German name, and is often spelled both ways, but the Enclopedia Titanica and Wikipedia both spell it "Straus".
Gotta love the internet sometimes. Here’s more info:
Encyclopedia Titanica also says that Isador and his brother owned Macy’s completely by 1896. He was a Congressman, too. It goes one to say that his body was recovered, but Ida's never was. He is buried in Woodlawn Cemetary in the Bronx, with her name on the memorial. Andew Carnegie was one of the euligists. Straus Square was dedicated in 1914, and is at the corner of Broadway and 107th Street. ( I was a few blocks off.) There is a freshman dorm called Straus Hall at Harvard, built in memorium by their three sons, and a public school in NYC, PS 128, in Manhattan.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 26, 2008 4:19 PM
Thank you, Montrose!
Now I can order tomorrow's dinner from the restaurant downstairs!
NOP
Posted by: NOP at November 26, 2008 4:25 PM
The public school is also named after Isador Straus, to clear that up.
Benson, I stand corrected. My very superficial Googling gave me the correct story, which is what you related. I have a hard time seeing modern CEO's doing that, as well. I have a feeling more would be like Bruce Ismay, sadly enough.
Have a happy Thanksgiving, all. We do have much to be thankful for.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 26, 2008 4:28 PM
thats all some great reminiscing yall! Aaaaaaaand now the fulton mall is a dump. a dilapidated, filthy, festering cesspool. at the current rate it will be uninhabitable by 2014 after all the buildings decay and collapse out of neglect. Surprisingly the patrons (who arent upscale as everyone points out) will be climbing over rubble ala Mad Max to get to the 47 remaining sneaker stores that remain scattered about the wreckage. And even though there are no more mcdonalds in sight you will still find these patrons disposing of their chicken mcnugget boxes carelessly in doorways and mailboxes.
Posted by: Billiamsburg at November 26, 2008 8:41 PM
I didn't grow up in brownstone Brooklyn but Fulton St was THE shopping area. I bought my prom dress at Martins and Evening in Paris perfume in the blue bottle (a gift for my mother) in Woolworths. I still had my original A&S credit card opened when I was 21 (a while ago) when Macys took over. The frozen custard in A&S basement was the best and as a kid every shopping trip with my mother ended in Choc ful O'Nuts for a cream cheese with walnuts sandwich.
Years later when I bought a brownstone, I found full bottles of furniture oil in the house with McCrorys labels circa 1920's. Yeah, those nuts always smelled so good.
Posted by: jfss at November 26, 2008 8:55 PM
Exactly what jfss says. But I was a kid in the 1970s back then. I remember either taking the D train to Dekalb Avenue and walking with my mom & dad to May's, Korvettes, A&S and Woolworths. What amazing fun! Especially A&S where they had an express elevator to the toy department. The elevator bank still exists today, but no express elevator and 1/2 are shut down so they can use it as sales space.
I know Fulton is not exactly everyone's cup of tea, but it's always been a low end shopping district. Back when I was visiting, you had those department stores. Now you do have more schlock... But getting everyone out and replacing them with Pinkberry's won't solve anything.
Posted by: Jack at November 28, 2008 3:00 AM
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