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November 13, 2008

House of the Day: 356 President Street

This four-story brick townhouse at 356 President Street in Carroll Gardens (Gowanus?) has a nice look to it in spite of the miserable photography job of the broker. The 4,500-square-foot place just hit the market with a not-crazy asking price of $1,820,000. The big question, not addressed by the listing, is what kind of quality the kitchen and bathrooms are. If they are charming and in good shape, the price seems achievable to us; if not, go fish.
356 President Street [Century 21] GMAP P*Shark

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It's a three family so will require extensive mods to convert into a one family with or without a garden rental. Also not a fan of the F train.

Handsome building but a tough sell right now.

Posted by: Ozymandius at November 13, 2008 1:56 PM

Lots of pics of the same room -- not promising.

Posted by: FatLenny at November 13, 2008 1:59 PM

Looks like (On Propshark) that is not only Carroll Gardens but included in Carroll Gardens Historic District.
So keep the faux Gowanus 'neighborhood' to other side of the canal.
Pre-market crash easily this price...Even not fixed up.
Fixed up would have been listed for over $2m.
What is happening now in townhouse market is hard to say,
Also looks has been in same family since 1970. Well maintained.

Posted by: Petebklyn at November 13, 2008 2:05 PM

For the location (Gowanus to me even if it's still officially CG) it seems reasonable. As long as you don't mind who you might end up with as neighbors. That's one thing people don't realize when they buy this multi-million brownstone. You might choose your location and whether it's fixed or not to your taste but you don't choose your neighbors. That's why different neighborhoods command different prices (even sometimes a block makes the difference) because in this part of town I wouldn't be too picky about neighbors.

Posted by: brownie77 at November 13, 2008 2:10 PM

The map shows this house located between Bond + Nevins whihc would put it outside of landmarks.

Posted by: Boerum Hill at November 13, 2008 2:15 PM

The house is definitely landmarked. It's between Hoyt and Bond, close to the corner of Hoyt. See the link to the Carroll Gardens Landmark District map, it includes 356 President Street. http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/html/maps/maps_bklyn.shtml

Posted by: 1842 at November 13, 2008 2:31 PM

brownie - you seem to be saying something very crafty about the neighbors...so crafty as to be incomprehensible. why don't you just come out and say whatever it is you mean.

Posted by: i disagree at November 13, 2008 2:47 PM

" because in this part of town I wouldn't be too picky about neighbors." -
So what does that mean? and what part of town would you be picky? and how can you be picky? -Do you interview the people next door? ask for resumes from everyone on the block? Ask them to move if you don't approve?

Posted by: Petebklyn at November 13, 2008 3:01 PM

Just say it's close to the projects. It's not a big secret.

I cant tell exactly how close from the map. What's the big building across the street?

Posted by: slick at November 13, 2008 3:04 PM

Now I'm confused - I thought Carroll Gardens was just south of Cobble Hill (i.e., south of Degraw Street). Is Carroll Gardens different from Carroll Gardens Historic District? If not, what is the neighborhood south of Degraw called?

Posted by: JIPS at November 13, 2008 3:07 PM

I think what brownie is trying to say is offer 250K a bucket of Popeyes fried chicken and a case of grape soda.

Posted by: Xander Crews at November 13, 2008 3:07 PM

The big building across the street is a school. The projects are four blocks away at Douglass.

Posted by: JIPS at November 13, 2008 3:10 PM

i disagree - i am sorry you didn't get it. What i am saying is that the price seems reasonable for that part of town. Few blocks west would have been over $2MM, no prob, 2 blocks east probably another $100k or $200k less. Amazing how a few blocks make a difference.
I was referencing neighbors as a difficult factor to gauge when buying brownstone or townhouse. You can spend $4 or $5MM on a brownstone (in Brooklyn Heights or Cobble Hill for example) but even at that price, you would still be living right next door to someone who can turn out to be a nightmare. And most of the time, you actually don't know before you buy.
Neighbors can also mean empty lot like it seems to be the case on the picture. The buyer here should be aware of any future plan for real estate development. I thought I would throw it out there as too many postings unfortunately make very way too simplistic conclusions on prices. Real estate is a complicated business and prices are much more than just a price per sqft. Sorry for my long rambling ... Doesn't make much sense anyway. Just got extra time ;)

Posted by: brownie77 at November 13, 2008 3:11 PM

Petebklyn. That's exactly my point my friend, which is you don't know your neighbors before you move in and you could spend millions sometimes and end up next to some crazy neighbors. I know tons of people who've spent millions on brownstones and ended next to crazy neighbors. A guy had a huge pool installed in his backyard during the summer and was throwing some insane parties. Fun if you're single, a little less fun if you're a family.
Anyway, I see an empty lot next door on the pic here. Any development planned there. If this is the case, then that should drive the price down.

Posted by: brownie77 at November 13, 2008 3:15 PM

I know what mean about can spend big $ and have nightmare neighbors...just didn't know what meant by that 'part of town' - as in good or bad.
And not really empty lot next door - It is rear yard(parking) of corner building which faces Hoyt.

Posted by: Petebklyn at November 13, 2008 3:21 PM

you guys been in this hood at night. its scary. i hear wolfs are howling around the canal.

Posted by: brownie77 at November 13, 2008 3:22 PM

I've lived in 'this hood' for most of my life and never found it 'scary'.

Posted by: Petebklyn at November 13, 2008 3:34 PM

All you people make me sick. Hoooowwwwwlllll!!!!!!

Posted by: brooklynoriginal at November 13, 2008 3:43 PM

Good sign
Chelsea mortgage 110 percent of sale price

Chelsea Stratus
By Adam Pincus

Despite a cooling Manhattan condominium market in which banks have tightened lending requirements, the mortgage for a three-bedroom penthouse apartment in the new Chelsea Stratus was written at a value nearly $500,000 greater than the $4.508 million sale price for the unit.

JPMorgan Chase wrote the $5 million mortgage for PH3C, a 2,263-square-foot apartment, to the Greenwich, CT-based buyer, Chelsea Vista Holdings, according to property records posted yesterday. The sale and loan documents were signed October 24, the records show.

Condo loans in New York City that were frequently written at 90 percent or more loan-to-value rate earlier this year have, for the most part, dropped to about 80 percent, mortgage brokers said.

Chelsea Stratus, a 40-story tower at 101 West 24th Street at Seventh Avenue developed by LCOR, opened in mid-May.

JPMorgan did not immediately respond to a request for comment. The buyer's attorney also did not respond to a request for comment.

Mortgage broker Thomas Wiggin, president of Manhattan-based Thomas Funding Group, said it was unusual for a loan to be written for more than the sale price, but it was not unheard of. He was not involved in the sale and his only knowledge of the transaction was through public documents.

He said there were several ways the borrower could obtain such a sizable loan. The buyer could propose to use the money as a construction loan to remodel or build out the unit which would increase the value of the apartment, or he could put up substantial capital or other assets such as real estate as collateral.

"It is not typical for your average borrower, however it is not unheard of, especially for something in that price range," he said. "For individuals who have sufficient credit, assets or income, financing is still readily available."

The LCOR development is nearly sold out, with 199 out of 204 condo units under contract, and nearly all of those have closed, said building sales agent Andrew Anderson, senior vice president at Prudential Douglas Elliman, the exclusive marketing and sales broker on the project

Posted by: sebb at November 13, 2008 3:51 PM

Last week I captured a werewolf on the banks of the Gowanus Canal. It was really scary. When I was a kid, some kid fell in the Canal and the government came and took him away... Scary...

Posted by: brooklynoriginal at November 13, 2008 4:02 PM

I have no connection to the sale, but I live around the corner on Hoyt. Great building, great location, and most certainly in the CG historic district. Nil traffic from the 'jects. And that's not an empty lot next door, it's the roof of a 100 year-old carriage house. Here are the tax archive photos:

http://www.geocities.com/tr00y/hoytstreet/hoytstreet-Pages/Image4.html

Posted by: hoytstreet at November 13, 2008 4:14 PM

Isn't this on the corner by Hoyt? If so, it's Carroll Gardens not Gowanus. That said, I'd be concerned about the kids from school across the street destroying my property since they hang out over there. However there is Black Mountain down the street, which is nice. To me this seems like a deal. I didn't see a floorplan, but if you live on the parlor and garden level and rent the top two floors out, you should get a nice amount in rents. I wonder how much work it needs though.

Posted by: brooklyn44 at November 13, 2008 4:15 PM

Where exactly is "Gowanus"? When I was growing up the whole area was called South Brooklyn. Now it seems there is a different name for every square block.

Posted by: brooklynoriginal at November 13, 2008 4:39 PM

"kids from school across the street"??

This is just a nice quiet little elementary school..
what exactly are you afraid these 5th graders could do?

Posted by: oe at November 13, 2008 4:48 PM

It's not the fifth graders, it's the middle school that's there, and those kids are a pain sometimes. They've broken windows of a friend of mine who lives down the street.

Posted by: nk at November 13, 2008 4:52 PM

There is a middle school on the 2nd floor of the school and the kids get really aggressive. Many times I've seen them all storm into Carroll Park for an after school fight. Usually the police break it up. It's get really loud over there when school lets out.

Posted by: brooklyn44 at November 13, 2008 5:30 PM

Well we had noisy neighbors in Park Slope when we owned/lived there. Both upstairs and the building next door, and yes, you can hear through the walls of brownstone buildings not just through apartment walls. If you think people in higher priced neighborhoods don't make noise you're mistaken, Brownie.

Posted by: traditionalmod at November 13, 2008 5:49 PM

The view out the front windows is of the school and it's not pretty. I think the price reflects that.

If you're at work all day you won't notice the student presence but if you're home it is really noisy and can be rowdy. Also the school buses picking up idle right in front of that house for a long time. Otherwise it's a quiet block. Projects are not an issue.

It is 1 block from the train, not 3.

How big is the back yard ?

Posted by: jfss at November 13, 2008 8:28 PM

Oh come on, this is Carroll Gardens. Doesn't get much safer or quieter.

Posted by: mopar at November 13, 2008 11:17 PM

What are those supports located on the right side of the building above the garage? Are they holding up the building?

Posted by: Magilla Monsoon at November 14, 2008 10:45 AM

It’s a ladder holding up a clothes line. You know the days before dryers??? With all the tree huggers in this hood we might see a come back. If that’s the trend please people only clean knickers!

Posted by: BrooklynCannoli at November 14, 2008 12:40 PM

« Co-op of the Day: 360 Clinton Avenue One Bedroom Streetlevel: Bye-Bye Bergen Tile »

November 13, 2008

House of the Day: 356 President Street

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