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November 3, 2008

House of the Day: 808 Lincoln Place

808-Lincoln-Place-1108.jpg
While this three-story limestone house at 808 Lincoln Place in Crown Heights has some beautiful original detail to recommend it, it also appears (from the photo of the kitchen) that it's not exactly in top-of-the-line form. The asking price of $795,000 probably would have worked a year or even six months ago, but we doubt it will fly today. While there aren't a lot of comps to look at, PropertyShark does show that the similar house next door, 806 Lincoln Place, traded for $600,000 in December 2006. Anyone know of other recent sales close by?
808 Lincoln Place [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark




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Comments

There are some wonderful 3 story homes on this block. Many have great period detail, and have been lovingly restored. We featured two on our house tour last year, and I've been in a couple of others that were really great. This block also has a very active and involved block association, and is one of the few block associations I know of that owns a property, which they use for meetings and civic functions. It's on the corner of NY and Lincoln. Anyone buying this place will be coming to a very friendly, diverse block, with pretty front yards.

That said, this house is leaving me rather flat. I guess the charm has been leeched out of it, somehow. I think it will eventually sell, as the block is appealing, and one is around the corner from the subway, walking distance to the Museum, etc, etc, and pretty close to the amenities we have at Tavern on Nostrand and on Franklin Ave. The price will have to go down considerably, especially if you want to do some serious renovating. It might work out well to keep the doctor's office downstairs, and live on the top two floors.

All in all, not a bad investment, after a price adjustment, for someone who is not pining for lots of period detail, but wants a smallish, managable house on a nice block.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 3, 2008 1:40 PM

about 700K and I think this house will fly. Looks nice and the block is great. I think this is a great house for one family. Crown Heights has many nice homes like this...

Posted by: Amzi Hill at November 3, 2008 1:55 PM

I used to live directly across the street from this place.
Very nice block - neighbors are very friendly for the most part. There's an eyesore of a building on the south side of the street right before the corner of Nostrand, not sure what it up with that.

Tavern on Nostrand!! Thanks for reminding me Montrose. Went there a few times and really enjoyed it - especially with the live music on weekend nights. Did the owner ever open the asian fusion place across the street?

Posted by: A Guest at November 3, 2008 2:07 PM

AG, I confess, I don't get up there that often, I'm on Pacific St, which is a ways away. I believe David turned the fusion place into a pizza parlour, which has opened. I heard he was suffering from spreading himself too thin, not a good thing at any time, especially now. A pizza place, especially with some ambiance, would appeal to a very wide range of customers, much more than Asian fusion.

I don't know if it was just for the summer, but Tavern had stopped serving lunch for a while too, which was disappointing. They were just doing dinner and weekends, but I don't know if that is still the case. I wish him success, the food is good, and the space is nice.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 3, 2008 2:30 PM

I think the food at tavern is pretty good. Haven't tried the pizza yet but the place always seems pretty empty.

You know that he had problems with the other restaurants that were written up a few months ago? That was a shame.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2008 2:33 PM

Price too high, House too dull.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at November 3, 2008 2:39 PM

How much rental income do you suppose the doctor's office brings in?

This is the kind of thing that would be plenty enough space for my fiancee and I, even with just two floors. If we could get the price down a bit more, and supplement it with income from the rental, we could afford to do repairs/restoration on the interior.

If it's not worth $800k (which I agree), what do you guys think it's actually worth?

Posted by: cwbuecheler at November 3, 2008 2:49 PM

I think 700-720k would be a little bit more reasonable.

Posted by: A Guest at November 3, 2008 2:54 PM

Well, the "typical" 10% cut off of ask gets you down to $715k

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2008 3:05 PM

Sounds about right - very low $700's.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 3, 2008 3:13 PM

Depends on what shape the house is in. States the mechanicals are new, that's a plus. There's a tenant on top floor, renting month to month and a practice on the garden level (are both tenants staying put?)

Also, the Cocoran overpricing factor. I say closer to 675k.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at November 3, 2008 3:13 PM

If it is the same tenant that I remember, it is a female young professional "newcomer" paying a little under market rate.

Posted by: A Guest at November 3, 2008 3:43 PM

Brownstoner:

The ground-floor doctor's office in this house reminds me how common such places were in Crown Heights during the 1950's when I grew up in the neighborhood.

Back then, Crown Heights was saturated with doctors and dentists. Every row-house block had several, and the big apartment houses on streets like St. Marks Avenue and Eastern Parkway were covered with their brass plaques affixed next to the lobby doors or at the entrances to professional suites that were accessible directly from the street.

My family's pediatrician was a woman in an office at the "garden level" of a house off New York Avenue. Our dentists were in houses on Brooklyn Avenue and Eastern Parkway. My sister's surgeon was in a house he shared with his brother, another surgeon, on Eastern Parkway. And our orthodontist was in a mansion on New York Avenue, a big limestone number where he gave annual holiday parties for his adoring fans: all the neighborhood ladies who'd have their children's teeth straightened and proclaimed him an "artist."

My favorite was Dr. G., who had a professional suite in an apartment building along Brooklyn Avenue. He was the old-fashioned general practitioner with a pencil-thin mustache and degrees from a Mid-Western university. A throw-back to the leather-satcheled G.P. who made house calls. Gentle and genial, seeing us kids through our coughs and scarlet fever. (Do people get scarlet fever any more? Somehow it sounds very old-fashioned.)

Dr. G's office was entered through a heavy wood door with a stained-glass window, in keeping with the building's Tudor style. The door was always unlocked for walk-ins from the neighborhood. His nurse had flaming red hair and was such a terrible smoker that her voice scratched like sand paper ("The Rasp," my father called her). But they were a real team, making kids feel welcome when they just turned old enough to visit the doctor's by themselves. (A big moment for kids, only slightly less nervous-making than going to the dentist's for the first time alone.)

What I remember most about their office was that it was freezing cold, the air-conditioning going full blast at a time when most people didn't have any. My brother and I'd sit on the reception room's sofa shivering as much from the cold as from dreading being examined, listening to The Rasp hack into the phone, trying to distract ourselves with comic books, but keeping our eye on the clock over her reception desk, ticking off the minutes to our booster shots. The reward at the end of our ordeal: a stick of licorice.

Our pediatrician was among the first harbingers of the neighborhood's change. During a visit, she pulled out a brochure for the Ebbetts Field Apartments, which at the time promised a middle-class enclave nearer the park. She was moving her office she explained, although she hoped we'd still visit. (I understand these apartments have declined. At the time they opened, however, there were a number of doctors, teachers, and other neighborhood professionals and their families living there.)

One by one, all our doctors and dentists moved away. Only one seemed to hold on at his original location: the orthodontist, whose Cadillac was still visible in his driveway several years after my family left.

Dr. G. also lasted for a while, consolidating his practice with several other doctors in a free-standing office on one of the side streets. For a middle-class kid, it was something of a shock to visit him at his new location. The waiting room felt like a hospital, with bawling kids and their parents rushing around.

I'd come back to the neighborhood after several years away, prefering to see him rather than my family's new doctor in Manhattan. He greeted me warmly, re-introduced me to The Rasp (holding fort at the entrance to the clinic), then ushered to me to his office.

There he winked and said, "Don't tell anybody, but I've decided to move on."

More than any other moment, this visit to Dr. G. came to represent the end of Crown Heights as I'd known it. And I wouldn't go back to my old neighborhood until many years later.

Nostalgic on Park Avenue

Posted by: NOP at November 3, 2008 5:07 PM

NOP, you certainly have a way with words. I can see "the Rasp", and picture you and your brother shivering in the office, staring at the clock. I really hope you string together these tales into a memoir or a screenplay. It would be fabulous. You have a great talent.

You will be happy to hear that many of the doctors and dentists' offices still remain in the neighborhood. The names and accents may be Haitian French or West Indian English, but they are here along New York, Brooklyn and St. Marks Avenues, among other places. They seem to have disappeared from the large apartment buildings, and considering how hard it is to have a single practice today, it's encouraging to see that they still exist. They may be mostly the old guard, but they are part of the glue that has kept this neighborhood together. I hope more younger professionals open offices in the neighborhoods, they are needed. One of my doctors was on Eastern Parkway, until she moved to a larger, multi-doctor office closer to her hospital affiliation.

I've been in about 4 of the large houses on St.Marks between Brooklyn and Kingston, and all were doctor's practices at one point, hence the street being called "Doctor's Row". All were configured with the office on the ground and/or parlor floor, with the doctor and family living in the rest of the large house, quite comfortably and lavishly, too, as benefits their station in earnings and the community. One house had been a practice up until only a couple of years ago, and was still filled with medical furniture - examination tables, scales and such.

Thanks for another wonderful tale.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 3, 2008 6:07 PM

I'd love to buy a place like this.

Looks like a solid building. Near the subway. Nice block. Close to people I care about.

But still a bit out of my family's price range. Even with perfect credit, no debt, a bunch of cash saved up and a good combined income, how is a normal family supposed to afford a home without doing financial contortions? Probably could "afford" it, but house rich, cash poor, depending on renters to make the mortgage is not for me. I mean, this place is almost quarter million dollars, even after a 10% cutoff.

Maybe I'm just more financially conservative than other people. I'm hoping a place like this drops to an even more reasonable price level. What would this home have sold for in say 2004?

Posted by: theandrewlee at November 3, 2008 6:35 PM

Terrific! Buy this and be FWFB! Thrilling!!
(First White Family on the Block).

Posted by: Inigo at November 3, 2008 6:45 PM

MM:

Thanks for the update. On my most recent drive through Crown Heights (some months ago) I didn't have a chance to get up close to any of the buildings to see if they had doctors' offices. It's good to know there are still services in the area, although it's too bad the private practitioner's gone the way of the dinosaur.

Dr. G. was elderly by the time he decided to give up his practice. He was one of those honorable men who served everybody in his community until he was too tired to go on. He and The Rasp were probably well in their seventies the last time I saw them. They'd been together so long, I'm sure there was an interesting story between them, even if it never went beyond the professional.

NOP

Posted by: NOP at November 3, 2008 11:22 PM

Sorry, Inigo, but that title was taken a few years back. See what you miss when you don't know what you are talking about?

Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 4, 2008 12:07 AM

wait a month or two and you'll see comps in the 400K range. I know someone in contract now for the low 400s. Friendly advice, not a good time period to waste money.

Posted by: inthehood at November 4, 2008 12:55 PM

I'd settle for FFCHWFB.

(First F_________ C________ H________ W______ Family on the Block)

Posted by: theandrewlee at November 4, 2008 1:00 PM

"wait a month or two and you'll see comps in the 400K range. I know someone in contract now for the low 400s. Friendly advice, not a good time period to waste money."

Funny, Zillow says the average price for houses in the area in 2004 was ... around the low $400s. Who knows if that will come true.


Posted by: theandrewlee at November 4, 2008 1:15 PM

i'd say this is a steal. i think prices will double in that area in 5-8 years.

Posted by: rocky4 at November 6, 2008 10:22 AM

So did you try to steal it rocky4? The price is now $695k...

Posted by: the chicken at March 21, 2009 12:31 PM

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