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November 10, 2008

Flying the Flag in the Slope

obama-3rd-street.jpg
Who says patriotism is dead in big cities? Obviously this homeowner on 3rd Street in Park Slope would beg to differ.




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Comments

Mr. B..you should have used this early tomorrow. Would get more responses and probably plenty of it.

No comment from me!

Posted by: bayridgegirl at November 10, 2008 5:50 PM

I actually bought a flag the day after the Dem convention and planned to fly it if Obama won. I was going to start a whole Obama flag flying movement. But I was too lame to even put up my own flag.

Posted by: rh at November 10, 2008 5:53 PM

And Sarah Palin says that we are not part of the "Real America".

Posted by: JoeBushwick at November 10, 2008 6:05 PM

And I thought that part of Third Street veered towards the hammer and sickle.
Always nice to see an American flag!

Posted by: 5w30 at November 10, 2008 7:32 PM

I put a flag out all the time in Park Slope, I must admit it is mostly to annoy the "hammer and sickle" neighbors.
Communism is a nice thing when you can have your personal savings tucked away safely in Chase Bank and MetLife.


Posted by: sam at November 10, 2008 7:59 PM

Actually kinda pathetic, but what can you expect from a bunch of lib whiners who don't even know the boundaries of their own fucking neighborhood

Posted by: Xander Crews at November 10, 2008 8:26 PM

It is both dispicable and sadly telling of the state of our nation that half of our population can only bear to fly the flag representing this great nation when their party wins a presidential election.
What hypocrisy that allegiance to a common ideal can only be shown when the ideas of one party happen to win the favor of the public in a given election.

I fly my flag proudly every day, I take it down in rain or bad weather, I fly it at half mast for 30 days after the death of a president (republican or democrat) and I never let it touch the ground. Too many men (and women)better than us all, gave too much so that I might show these small gestures of gratitude. Tomorrow is Veteran's day. Please remember.

But then, I am sure that the liberals in this chatroom will suddenly feel embarassed by the very idea of an unrepentant patriotism. To them I say, look at yourselves and ask yourselves this simple question: since when is the belief in ones ideals and the honoring of past sacrifices, any reason to feel ashamed or self-conscious?

This person who put the large flag out because Obama won misses the irony of the fact that while his new found pride in this great nation might be a grand gesture, the scale and context of its placement in a neighborhood not generally known to display a flag even on the 4th of July, does not diminish the greatness it represents as it supports even the vanity of the homeowner.

Posted by: Legion at November 10, 2008 9:53 PM

Same Flag? Check it out:
http://todayeye.wordpress.com/2008/10/13/post-modern-betsy-ross/

Posted by: westernqueensland at November 10, 2008 10:19 PM

Hammer and sickle? As I recall, it was a Republican President who nationalized Wall Street with a $700+ billion taxpayer bailout last month.

You nasty ol' haters stole that flag from us when we were kids 30 years ago. We've grown up, and now we're stealing it back. And we're gonna give it to EVERYBODY! Because we're ALL REAL AMERICANS! Even the ones named Barack Hussein Obama! Especially them!

Posted by: lookin fer stuff at November 10, 2008 10:33 PM

@westernqueensland, am I missing something? What's postmodern about the flag - was it flying over a foreign car dealership? Maybe I should be asking over at todayeye...

Posted by: crux5503 at November 10, 2008 10:38 PM

I'm with legion, park slope is just a big ball of heaping shit.

Posted by: Xander Crews at November 10, 2008 10:42 PM


Lookin,

The Democrat majority congress was Bush's partner in the bailout. Where've you been?

There's no question that Obama will make the expense of the Iraq War look like pocket change compared to the trillions he and his cronies in congress are about to waste.

Obama's idiotic plan to "bailout" the auto industry is beyond stupid. Is Obama on drugs? Every dime US taxpayers give the auto industry will go straight down the toilet. Obama is a liberal community activist who does not understand business at all. Even before taking office, he deserves the title, Tax and Waster in Chief.

Yes, I'm afraid. Obama is no Bill Clinton, despite hiring some of his people. Bill Clinton was a very shrewd conservative Democrat. Obama is a very slick used car salesman who does not understand that his union/interest group pandering politics will kill this fragile economy. Already, since winning office, the stock market has dropped more than it ever has in history after a presidential victory.

Do you liberals realize you just elected a new president who is against free trade? Sure, the War in Iraq was misguided, but can't you folks see the writing on the wall already? T

Bread lines here we come . . . The media brainwashed you people to vote for the liberal equivalent of George Bush, and unfortunately, he's massive tax and waste policies will hurt this country far more than Bush's overseas wars have.

We're currently in a recession. Obama as President will lead us into a bigger depression than the first one.

Posted by: IronBalls at November 11, 2008 4:13 AM

"Lookin" is the essence of SHEEP. hopefully this person is not charged with any meaningful decision making responsibilities.

obama will do just fine - he's smart, wants to be president for 8 years, and is indebted to a variety of constituents on conflicting sides of most issues. net result will be bill clinton redux. the fact that he's already bending over backwards to placate the auto makers gives a nice indicator of what to expect over the next 4 years.

Posted by: BrooklynLove at November 11, 2008 7:47 AM

The morning after election day I couldn't wait to don a flag pin, badge, iron-on, whatever. I looked all over the house and couldn't find anything, until I came upon a clip attached to my Brooklyn College ID badge. Totally offensive when I got it back in 2006; I've worn it on my backpack proudly every day for the past week.

Posted by: Jane Jacobs at November 11, 2008 8:27 AM

We now have a President that can speak in complete sentences without a teleprompter. Reason to fly the flag in my book.

Lot of very bitter McCain/Palin supporting Repubs out there. To them I say keep doing what you're doing. Focus on tax cuts for the rich and ignore the economy. Concentrate on fundamentalism and not science, opposing stem cells while health care costs continue to spiral our of control. Let Rush Limbaugh make your next choice for VP as well. Worked out real well this time.

In the meantime, we just took back our amazing, beautiful country, and we're gonna fly the stars and bars proudly!

Brooklyn, love it or leave it.

Posted by: Johnny at November 11, 2008 9:21 AM

Good post Legion.

spot on IronBalls. I honestly can't believe Obama has shown is incompetence not one week after being elected. Bailing out General Motors is absolutely insane. The man is going to destroy this economy.

Posted by: Polemicist at November 11, 2008 9:25 AM

Uh, Johnny, the flag in the picture is the stars and stripes. The stars and bars, the Confederate battle flag, is not a flag likely to be flown by many Obama supporters. Funny coming from someone mocking the lack of intelligence from Republicans.

Posted by: commenter3 at November 11, 2008 9:32 AM

Yeah, that stars & bars rebel flag always invokes a sense that the one flying it is well-read, intelligent and truly up on all current events; someone you'd invite over for dinner party with your most educated friends.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 11, 2008 9:46 AM

Why exactly is showing the flag "patriotic?" By what criterion?

Like McCain always calling himself a maverick: if you have to say it, it's probably not true; flying a flag doesn't mean you're patriotic, and not flying one doesn't meant you're not.

And I'd be embarrassed to have a flag that size, it's like driving a Hummer to prove your masculinity.

Posted by: cmu at November 11, 2008 9:54 AM

Bars, stripes . . . tomato, tomahto. Point being this is a great country. Even more so since Tuesday.


Posted by: Johnny at November 11, 2008 9:59 AM


Oh yeah. "Iron Balls," "Legion" and "Polemicist" have a better handle on the country, major U. S. industries and what ails the economy than Barack Obama. It's beyond laughable.

Posted by: East New York at November 11, 2008 10:07 AM

"Iron Balls," "Legion" and "Polemicist" = Ghidorah

Please log on to www.sourgrapes.com

Posted by: Biff Champion at November 11, 2008 10:20 AM

legion - quote of the month.

Posted by: goldie at November 11, 2008 10:44 AM

Biff deserves QOTD for working in a Godzilla reference.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at November 11, 2008 10:49 AM

Ironballs:

Warren Buffett, eighty percent of American economists, and The Economist magazine supported Barack Obama.

And a Businessweek analysis demonstrates that the American economy historically has done better under Democratic presidents -- and by a big margin (largely because of the synergy between public and private investment).

Yes, I'm in that five percent that'll pay more taxes under Obama, but if it means better infrastructure, schools, health care, etc. -- contributors to a society's health, well-being, and stability -- I'm happy to do it. And others, like Warren Buffett, are happy to do it as well.

Nostalgic on Park Avenue

Posted by: NOP at November 11, 2008 11:00 AM

No word from any commenters that today is Veterns Day - great day to wave the flag!

Posted by: Molly at November 11, 2008 11:03 AM

No word from any commenters that today is Veterens Day - great day to wave the flag!

Posted by: Molly at November 11, 2008 11:03 AM

No word from any commenters that today is Veterens Day - great day to wave the flag!

Posted by: Molly at November 11, 2008 11:03 AM

No word from any commenters that today is Veterens Day - great day to wave the flag!

Posted by: Molly at November 11, 2008 11:04 AM

No word from any commenters that today is Veterens Day - great day to wave the flag!

Posted by: Molly at November 11, 2008 11:04 AM

We got it Molly. No need to harp. :)

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 11, 2008 11:08 AM


NOP,

If you really think your higher taxes will go towards improving "infrastructure, schools, health care, etc.," you're more gullible than folks who shed tears watching Obama's million dollar barf-worthy infomercial.

Your claim that eighty percent of economists support Obama is a complete joke as well. You're utterly delusional, just like Obama, and the rest of the Obamabots who think Obama's tax and waste agenda will improve anything in this country.

And If one more egghead brags about Warren Buffet supporting Obama, I'll puke. What does that prove except that Buffet's a liberal Democrat? Can't you think for yourself and not just believe every damn NY Times Obama propaganda op-ed you come across?

Have you ever had your own thought your entire life? What the hell is wrong with people in this country who can't tell right from wrong. Based on everything he's said, Obama will be a horrible president. This country is screwed.


Posted by: IronBalls at November 11, 2008 12:41 PM

IB...Don't fault him for beinmg literate enough to read the NY Times. You believe everything you hear on talk radio!!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 11, 2008 12:52 PM


I've never listened to talk radio in my life.

McCain is the first republican presidential candidate I've ever voted for.

Obama clearly does not understand how important low taxes and free trade policies are to this country's economy.

If the economy were doing well, I'd have less of a problem about Obama's tax and waste agenda. His plans in our current economic situation will make the difference between a recession and a major depression.

Bailing out the auto industry? Talk about wasting tax payer money. We're doomed.


Posted by: IronBalls at November 11, 2008 1:08 PM

"McCain is the first republican presidential candidate I've ever voted for."

You backed a loser. You "forecast" is worthless! HA! HA! HA! I love this guy.

Posted by: East New York at November 11, 2008 1:17 PM

"I've never listened to talk radio in my life."

And yet you parrot their fact-free talking points like an automaton.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at November 11, 2008 1:21 PM

Ironballs - I guess the Obama honeymoon is over as far as your concerned!

Whatever happened to standing behind your president? isn't that patriotic anymore??? - I'm not talking about supporting policies you dont like or blindly pledging obedience - but the guy hasnt done or said virtually anything (has only said that he would consider a auto bailout with conditions) since being elected and you have already written off the next 4yrs. Way to give a guy a chance!

Posted by: fsrg at November 11, 2008 1:29 PM

Ironballs:

Then I guess The Economist, the highly-regarded center-right journal, is a joke, too. I read about Obama's approval by economists there, in the November 11 issue, on an international flight back to NYC.

I'd just met with an investment group with billions to put in large infrastructure projects, and they couldn't wait for Obama to be elected!

Here's what I read, by the way. On the right: The Weekly Standard, The National Review, American Renaissance, RushLimbaugh.com, the Wall Street Journal, etc.; on the left: The Nation, Huffington Post, The Progressive, DailyKos, etc.

You may also be interested to know that Obama was my second-to-last pick among the Democrats and came to him only by the Democrats' process of elimination.

Finally, please note that I qualified my happiness to pay more taxes by writing "if it means better infrastructure, schools and health care." If it doesn't, then I'll start looking for another candidate to support. As many others will do, too.

NOP

Posted by: NOP at November 11, 2008 1:34 PM

Ironballs:

A correction:

Today is November 11. The date of The Economist's issue was October 2.

NOP

Posted by: NOP at November 11, 2008 1:36 PM

"Have you ever had your own thought your entire life?"

This coming from someone who uses words like "barf-worthy" and has talked daily about puking in his sombrero?

Posted by: Biff Champion at November 11, 2008 1:57 PM

IronBalls, (lol)

Patriotism is not measured by flag waving, lapel pins and certainly not from ribbon stickers on the back of "Real American's" SUV's. Brooklyn is a vibrant, multicultural community, and yes, so what if some residents want to celebrate that the rest the US has voted a referendum that the white house is no longer the exclusive abode of white men. Where do you find the temerity to criticize Obama the president, months before he even assumes the office.

"If you really think your higher taxes will go towards....."
"Based on everything he's said, Obama will be a horrible president. This country is screwed."
Numbnuts, Obama has "said" that there will be a net tax cut for Americans.

McCain supported a sustained war in Iraq, 100 years by some measurements. The Iraq war is the biggest "tax and waste" scam ever perpetrated in history, That is of course, with the exception of those who receive deferred compensation from Halliburton.

Posted by: Fedora at November 11, 2008 2:18 PM


NOP,

I didn't read that issue of the Economist, but I've yet to read a positive article about Obama that isn't complete fluff. What's his record? What has he accomplished? Who cares if he raised hundreds of millions of dollars, what does that reflect on his future presidency, other than his messianic appeal?

I don't get it -- plain and simple.

When I want something fixed, I hire somebody who can fix it.

Obama's tax and waste agenda will do much more to harm our economy than help it.

Posted by: IronBalls at November 11, 2008 2:23 PM


Fedora,

If Obama had been a senator at the time, he would have voted along with the rest of the Democrats to AUTHORIZE THE WAR IN IRAQ.

The war was authorized by REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS. Please get your facts straight and stop blaming everything on Bush, just because Obama does in all his commercials.

If you believe Obama's "net tax cut" bs, you're living in dreamland, not Brooklyn.

Obama got elected lying to the American people that he would cut 95% of their taxes.

He's too illiterate on economics to understand that by raising taxes on businesses and high earners to fund tax cuts for the masses, especially during a recession, he'll decimate the economy.

Your king has no clothes. Too bad you won't realize it until it is too late.


Posted by: IronBalls at November 11, 2008 2:30 PM

"He's too illiterate on economics to understand that by raising taxes on businesses and high earners to fund tax cuts for the masses, especially during a recession, he'll decimate the economy."

- you mean like during the Clinton years??

But either way - it still is an improvement since Bush is just completely "illiterate"

Posted by: fsrg at November 11, 2008 2:47 PM

Polly want a cracker?

Posted by: SnarkSlope at November 11, 2008 2:48 PM


fsrq,

Unlike during the Clinton years, Obama is not lucky enough to become president during boom years (remember the internet/tech bubble?).

His agenda is also entirely different from Clinton's. Clinton was a liberal on social issues, but more to the right on economic/tax related ones.

Obama's agenda is completely left wing. His promises if acted upon will crush this economy.

At least Bush had an MBA from Harvard. Another lawyer as President, not to mention one as Vice President, is a scary thought.

The Obama forecast is, unfortunately, very bleak indeed.

Posted by: IronBalls at November 11, 2008 3:49 PM

Well, I guess this marks the end of that elated feeling I've had since the election. NOT! Love the huge flag- finally us Liberals can thumb our noses at the Republicans who tried to claim patriotism and pride of country as heir party platform. I think sour grapes doesn't begin to describe what they're feeling- karma's a bitch, boys. And a little realistic self analysis wouldn't hurt you people either. Remember: Bush=Republican. 8 years of crap, drek and shove it down our throats radical right policies. No wonder Obama and the Dems won big.

But obviously iron balls, poley, legion and the rest of that ilk really just don't get why. It was a message. They man isn't even in the White House yet and the GOP is already trying to figure out ways to undermine him. So much for patriotism and love of country and the common good (oh wait, poley doesn't believe in that. Forgot). Love the hysteria and hyperbole- worked so well for McCain/Palin, didn't it? Obama will decimate the economy? And exactly what do you think it is now? In great shape?

"It is both dispicable and sadly telling of the state of our nation that half of our population can only bear to fly the flag representing this great nation when their party wins a presidential election."

Certainly not more despicable than the other half who insisted everyone who didn't agree with their unconstitutional policies, war mongering and rabid religious right wingers weren't entitled to call themselves patriots or fly the flag. the republicans used the flag like a weapon. If you disagreed with King Bush, you were quite simply, unamerican. Don't blame us for flying the flag in joy after 8 years of flying it in fear. For 8 years we listened to the Republicans tell us they owned the flag. With this election we took it back, and our principles too.

Posted by: bxgrl at November 11, 2008 4:04 PM

Warren Buffet supported Obama.

IB, you pukin' yet?

GObama.

Posted by: basketball_jones at November 11, 2008 4:06 PM

I completely agree with ironballs post ... i dont see how obama fixes up this economy

Posted by: pscoln1 at November 11, 2008 4:21 PM

First off, Obama is known as a centrist. And considering who screwed up the economy, I'm hardly likely to panic over what Obama will or won't do. can't be worse than what the conservatives have already done. Crush this economy- please, let me stop laughing long enough to weep over my retirement fund. Believe me it needs weeping over.

We've seen what the conservative right wing can do- and they did it very badly. Nothing he has done or said indicates Obama will be a left wing radical liberal, so maybe we should all jsut wait and see. what wou.d have been the alternative? More of the same, except for mooseburgers on the menu? You want a scary thought- Palin. How any self-respecting, intelligent human being could even envision someone of that caliber as VP or -HORRORS!!!- President, and then in the next breath be concerned about what Obama will do is hysterically funny.

Posted by: bxgrl at November 11, 2008 5:02 PM

"... i dont see how obama fixes up this economy"

Well he likely can't (which isnt necessarily his fault anyway) and certainly not quickly - but how about actually letting the guy get into office and proposing some real legislation before you declare him a failure - he is your president - and therefore criticizing him before he even does anything sounds like putting party ahead of country - not very patriotic if you ask me.

Posted by: fsrg at November 11, 2008 5:30 PM

I think we all got off topic, the real point is Park slope is just a steaming ball of crap.

Posted by: Xander Crews at November 11, 2008 5:57 PM

boxgrl,

If you allowed the flag to be "taken" from you, you have only yourselves to blame. Remember whose advisor(Obama's William Ayers) is shown happily standing over an American flag crumpled on the floor for a magazine story. Hey, Obama even wrote the blurb on Ayer's book jacket. But who gives a shit about that now anyway. My simple point is that you and your ilk are hypocrites, you fly the flag when it suits you. Americans of the past have flown the flag through thick and thin.Always as Americans. What we have now is a generation, since Vietnam, who finds it acceptable to periodically abandon this nation in fits of perfidy to service their own vanity.
It is the "me" generation personified; they have no faith so they tear down thousands of years of religious tradition,
they have no morals so they tear down thousands of years of social structure,
they have no honor so they tear down the very nation that harbors them,
and when they are called out on their actions they hide behind curtains of moral subjectivism, as if anecdotes and emotion can mitigate the overwhelming weight of historical precedent.

Posted by: Legion at November 11, 2008 7:08 PM


fsrq,

So I'm not patriotic because I don't want our capitalist system destroyed?

Bxgrl and the rest of the Obamabots can blame Bush all they want, but it won't change the truth about the cause
of our economic problems -- namely the easy money/sub-prime lending/mortgage backed security fiasco.

Obama is actually part of the problem since he overpaid for a McMansion in Chicago near the height the market. Later he claimed he didn't understand the mortgage process and that's why he bought the lot next door for $300,000 below market value from his #1 supporter's wife! And now, a couple years later, he somehow has the knowledge to run our economy!

Posted by: IronBalls at November 11, 2008 7:11 PM

Legion:

"Americans of the past have flown the flag through thick and thin. Always as Americans."

Uhhm.

What about the Civil War?

And what flag did Sarah Palin's husband propose waving those years he was a member of the Alaskan secessionist movement?

NOP

Posted by: NOP at November 11, 2008 7:27 PM

Lesion-
"It is the "me" generation personified; they have no faith so they tear down thousands of years of religious tradition,
they have no morals so they tear down thousands of years of social structure,
they have no honor so they tear down the very nation that harbors them,
and when they are called out on their actions they hide behind curtains of moral subjectivism, as if anecdotes and emotion can mitigate the overwhelming weight of historical precedent."

Oh get a grip. I am so sick of you and people like you defining "patriotism" in your own unconstitutional, un-free speech, and un-freedom of religion way. You love to parrot the lies you've been fed, no matter how often or by whom it's been debunked. Obamabots? Well, it's a hell of a lot better than Bushbots and Palinbots. And for all your ranting over who is a hypocrite, how is it you wont address the issue of Palin's husband and his membership in a secessionist party that despises America? Need I mention she recorded a greeting that was aired at their last convention? would you like to read up on the founder of that party, J. Vogler who famously said:"I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions" and "Alaska should "nuke the glaciers" along the coast of the Gulf of Alaska and build a freeway to Juneau."

As for you yet again questioning our patriotism- typical. Moronic and typical. Don't try to give me lessons on patriotism- there are too many military people in my family who have proudly served this country- every single one of them proud Dems and liberals. So stuff it.

Ayers was never an advisor to Obama but since it makes you feel better to believe the pundits, have at it.

FYI ironballs- in fact, he paid market value, not under, and if bothered to research the facts you would know that.

Posted by: bxgrl at November 11, 2008 7:49 PM

"...they have no faith so they tear down thousands of years of religious tradition, they have no morals so they tear down thousands of years of social structure... they hide behind curtains of moral subjectivism, as if anecdotes and emotion can mitigate the overwhelming weight of historical precedent."

So I assume you must support slavery then, right? As promoted in the Bible and practiced fairly universally until rather recently in human history?

Posted by: SnarkSlope at November 11, 2008 8:41 PM


bxgrl,

Sorry, but you're flat out wrong. Obama paid exactly $300,000 less for the lot next to his house than his #1 financial backer's wife paid for the land a JUST A DAY EARLIER.

Spin it any way you want and it's still flat out slime ball politically connected corruption.

Obamabots will eventually wake up and what they wake up to won't be pretty.

Posted by: IronBalls at November 11, 2008 8:50 PM

"On Fox News' Hannity & Colmes, Dick Morris again suggested that Sen. Barack Obama and his wife got a discount on the price of their house and botched several basic facts of the real estate transaction."

- http://mediamatters.org/items/200806100017

Posted by: SnarkSlope at November 11, 2008 8:58 PM

If Willam Ayres lived in Park slope he would probably piss all over it, then go blow something up.

Posted by: Xander Crews at November 11, 2008 9:05 PM

Ironballs- he didn't buy the full lot, just part of it. And if we want to swap names about people who have done things they shouldn't have but are still friends of McCain, I got a list beginning with Timmons, Lindsay graham and how 'bout that Cindy McCain, who stole from her own charity?

Posted by: bxgrl at November 11, 2008 11:42 PM

IronBalls,

OK you want to get the facts straight about the Iraq war: Some not all democrats voted for Public Law 107-243 to give the president authorization based on the lie that Saddam "aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001..."

Other lies used to mislead congress and the American people include, but are not limited to:

, the "Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq"

“We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories.”

“..there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.”

“Our intelligence sources tell us that he (Saddam) has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production.”

“The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.”

“We know he’s been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons, and we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons.”

“We gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn’t let them in.”

“The Iraqi dictator must not be permitted to threaten America and the world with horrible poisons and diseases and gases and atomic weapons.”

“We’ve learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases”

“We have also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. ”

“We have seen intelligence over many months that they have chemical and biological weapons, and that they have dispersed them and that they’re weaponized and that, in one case at least, the command and control arrangements have been established.”

“We know where [Iraq’s WMD] are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat.”


All of these facts are mute considering your point is based upon your own opinion of how, hypothetically, Barack would have voted. Is your criticism of Barack "Based on everything he's said," or your own interpretation of what he is "bs"ing? Is it one, the other, both or neither? Your organization of ideas makes Sarah Palin sound like a Rhodes Scholar.

Posted by: Fedora at November 12, 2008 3:11 PM

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